Bitcoin Forum

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Every month or so I check the couple of websites (showing BTC ATMs) as well as the Facebook page re the International Bitcoin group.

But, I am dismayed that these BTC ATMs (I saw "BTMs" written elsewhere, clever) do not appear anywhere near my city.

Maybe BTC is not catching on?  Or have they changed the rules FORCING showing ID?  (The one BTM I used in NYC required no ID).


How are BTC ATMs catching on (or not)?

Nobody really wants to put a large investment into a machine that probably won't get much use. They're cool, and the concept is great but not that many people just go up to this machine and buy magic internet money.

As RGBKey said above, these machines are quite an investment and in order to make them viable you need turnover i.e. many transactions.

If you invest in one machine and its does not end up paying for itself the chances of you investing in another is small.

I even saw a thread a few days ago of someone asking for help because their ATM wasn't working and nobody really knew how to help him. Might have something to do with bad manufacturers also, not enough support.

i hope its spread in every country eventually
so that ppl can be more aware about bitcoin

Yes, it seems like we're at the point where to buy bitcoin you have to jump through twenty hoops just to get "verified" by the same crap we deal with for fiat, I wish it wasn't necessary to avoid being shut down.

It depends what sites are you using to check Bitcoin ATM growth pretty sure there are a few hundred to thousand around now see 457 at least.
http://cointelegraph.com/news/114264/bitnational-unveils-canadas-largest-atm-network-offering-btc-below-market-pri
http://www.bitnational.com/areas-of-operation.html
http://coinatmradar.com/

Just to make sure that some which might not be listed are shown.

i see it as a something that may help to rise the awareness of those people that don't surf too much and are strangers to the world of bitcoin, the old generation people fit in this conditions

Bitcoin BTM/ATMs are actually quite a hassle to manage. The operator has to buy the machine and he must constantly ensure that he has enough funds. For KYC/AML procedures, those are actually quite complicated hence operators has to comply with it and customers would not be happy to give out their personal info. The rental for the space can also be quite high depending on the traffic.

I think these ATMs are very important. Even if they are expensive and working with loses, I think that we need them everywhere. They facilitate buying of bitcoins which is enough complicated to be honest and they are great advertiser.

In my opinion big companies should invest in these ATMs. Let's take for example Coinbase. If they have money to burn from their investments to give a referral of $75 to every new customer, which is a very big amount of money, then they should also operate some Bitcoin ATMs, even at the loss. And in every country, this country's major Bitcoin company should do the same.

In many places, the KYC and AML policies are quite strict and it is hard to get an authorization to operate a Bitcoin ATM. For coinbase, what they are doing basically benefits them. They require a verified account and a $100 minimum spending. Most newbies wouldn't bother to spend $100 on Bitcoin and most would just spend $10-50. Coinbase can profit by the fees and can save the referral earnings too. If they happen to buy $100, they would possibly be more interested in Bitcoin.

Companies aren't doing charity, they won't do anything that would result in a loss for them.

In some countries (like Germany) there is also much regulation and high costs for a BTC ATM.
I would like to see more ATMs but sadly the government doesn't support this idea.

Yes, true.
I think that banks and government will never accept bitcoin because it's decentralize and they can't control it.
If they can't control or regulate something, they will never allow officially.
We are lucky that nobody can stop Internet and we have a lot freedom online but when the moment comes to withdraw internet or bitcoin earnings to the actual bank account, then begin the real problems.
I had problem this year to file a tax return in my country because the IRS has no projected a special category of Internet earnings.
I guess we are lucky that at least we got our first Bitcoin ATM :)

That is a false statement.
Many people go up to machines and buy internet money (PaySafeCard) to use in gambling and what not.

If the Bitcoin ATMs are not catching up is because they are not promoted properly.

can you state the cities where that happens in my country theres like none but thats portugal

Right. The few Bitcon ATMs we had had to be removed because BaFin does not accept that.The hassle is enormous.
Good old Germany. ::)

These BTM/ATM owners must show a profit, and in the current situation most people are hesitant to invest in something so volatile. There are also not a lot of people who would be withdrawing with the price of

BTC being so low. This is not only a problem with Bitcoin... Fiat ATM's suffer from this too... the ATM's just close down in a area, when the transaction volume is too low.

Everyone wants to see a Bitcoin ATM around every corner, but the reality is, these companies offering this service needs to make money to provide this service. We cannot blame them, if they not making a profit. 

We don't need Bitcoin ATMs.
We need widespread adoption, so that people don't feel the need to convert bitcoin into fiat.
Once we have that people will be able to obtain bitcoins very easily.

Seems you dont understand what OP is trying to say here, Bitcoin ATMs are mostly used to convert fiat to bitcoin, and having them around would make it easy for people to buy bitcoins and causing adoption of it by more and more people. If you want to convert btc to fiat you can just use bitcoin debit cards dont see why you might need a bitcoin ATM for that.

IMO the best way forward is for more non-risk-averse companies to install these things and avoid the kyc/aml rubbish as much as possible. That probably means more, smaller companies, kinda decentralized...
Reviewers like us also need to stress the ease of use aspects, like mentioning and promoting the ones that don't have all those hoops to jump thru. We should always ask about that when they are announced and highlight those that are easy to use.

I don't see the purpose of ATM's, bitcoin is supposed to be anonymous, and ATM's just defeat that purpose. why buy it in public when you can buy it online without ever having to leave your house

For most cases, online companies would require you to submit documents if they are KYC/AML compliant. Some require due to the high possibility of charge backs. The process can be quite long and issues may occur. ATMs allow you to buy Bitcoin with little verifications, eg. no proof of address and are much more convenient. You can always cover your face and buy Bitcoins at ATM.

In Finland buying or withdrawing from ATM is more anonymous than doing the same in most online exchanges. There's no KYC or bank account required. Where can you buy/sell bitcoins online with/for cash?
Localbitcoins, maybe.

If you buy it online with fiat, there definitely is a trace. You are kidding yourself if you think that it is anonymous.
If you buy it at an ATM, the degree of anonymity is higher.

I've used bitcoin ATM in Orlando FL, and Las Vegas NV this year and both worked great. Very fast transactions. Wish Bitcoin ATM would come to city I live in but nothing yet.

may be every ATM have different developer,and it makes some ATM not good as you hope,and not avaliable in every city.

The problem is advertising,I walked into a shop and they had a atm and there was no signs or anything. Had no idea as it did not show up on any atm locator sites.
Then you get atms that are no longer around showing up as active.

I found one at one of your links, at least it says there is one.  I will go check it out ASAP.  I hope that they don't require ID, even if for small purchases.

It may be that BTC has to attain a critical mass, which apparently we have not reached yet.

I'll do my part as quickly as I can!  :)

Depending on location and type of machine, you may need to submit your documents, either ID or driver license to buy or sell Bitcoins. ATMs like lamassu ship with it disabled and can be enabled depending on the location's AML/KYC policies. Some are actually enforced by the manufacturer themselves, one example is robocoin machines.

I can concert fiat straight to bitcoin grom my bank account in under one minute.. Why would i bother finding an atm to end up paying 8% fees when i can also buy at 2-3% fees grom my computer?

The good thing about the atms is mainly the visibility aspect i think.

I'm running coinatmradar site, and wanted just to give some insights here..

The growth according to the chart is really slowing down:

https://i.imgur.com/SHpKDlW.png?1 (http://coinatmradar.com/charts/#growth)

The updated stats can be found on the site, it's updated regularly.

But this slowdown is more due to removal of existing locations, however, I would not say that installations of new machines is slower than before.
It is more the question about updating the map and cleaning not-working anymore locations.

Some locations are not profitable, but I know cases where operators have 150-300K a month in volume on regular basis.
Charging on average 6% this is quite a nice business opportunity that can pay back the whole investment of the machine in one month.

Of course, this is not happening overnight and it is a big job to choose proper location and promote it.

Also I agree that bitcoin ATMs are a very nice form of getting/selling bitcoins easily for cash, many people argued that bitcoin ATMs were redundant in bitcoin space. I can't agree with this.
But I think it is fair enough to talk about cash<->bitcoin services in general, and there are literally thousands.
I wrote about it in the blog a while ago (http://coinatmradar.com/blog/buy-or-sell-bitcoins-for-cash-bitcoin-atm-alternatives/ (http://coinatmradar.com/blog/buy-or-sell-bitcoins-for-cash-bitcoin-atm-alternatives/)), and there are still several services, which I have not yet added to the list.
Those usually use existing infrustructure - and adoption happens on much broader level than bitcoin ATMs.

So I think we are on the right path here.

Bitcoin ATMs spreading will be faster, when banks will start to expand Bitcoin ATM network  ;) I hope banks will start to implement BTC soon  :)

HeroCat, I hope you  are right, but don't hold your breath (you'll die, as they say in Texas).

Many believe that BTC is an direct enemy and threat to the banking system, but I do not know how all of this will evolve.

I just would like to see MOAR BTC ATMs as soon as possible, and as soon as I can get to the ONE in my city (not close alas), well I will try it out.  And report back here to bitcointalk.

I did use one in New York City once less than a year ago (Sonny's Grocery, 10th Ave. at about 60th St.).  Worked great (no ID!)!  I then had to go to a bank ATM to fill my wallet back up with CA$H...

:)

The demand is going down. In my country, there are several Bitcoin ATMs (All of them installed in either 2013 or 2014). Until 2014, I could witness short, but healthy queues in front of these ATMs very frequently. But nowadays, I am hardly seeing anyone using them. The initial euphoria is over, and the interest seems to be going down.  >:(

That's until the next swings/rally in price, you will see how people will line up again.

Exactly this. It's normal that the demand is down while this crazy bear market still lasts. Human psychology is weird, but people low buying when the price is climbing, even though in this case, they will be paying much higher price.

The same works for selling, that's when people unfortunately tend to sell and not buy. This is exactly what's happening at the moment. We need a spark to start the next climb up, to put Bitcoin in news headlines and the demand will pick up again.

Bitcoin is not supposed to be anonymous, and it isn't.  What it does do is separate identities from accounts (i.e. BTC addresses), but that doesn't translate to anonymity in the real world.  It would be more private to use cash to buy BTC at an ATM than it would to buy from (for example) Coinbase , after which your bank now has a record of your purchase.  Furthermore, anytime you buy something with BTC and have it shipped to you, your anonymity is jeopardized.  At best, BTC just obfuscates the relationship between transactions and identities with layers of complexity, but BTC isn't supposed to be about anonymity, but rather decentralization and personal responsibility/ownership.

They are catching on across the US I've noticed.  In my city they range from 10%-5% in fees. No ID for less than 2000. Awesome chart CoinATMRadar

Once you learn about the exchanges, investing BTC, and connecting bank accounts, etc. you don't need to pay the ATM fees. 

I think when people saw that Tested documentary (the Tested YouTube channel gets millions of view) of the video called"we buy our first Bitcoin" it was a terrible hit on Bitcoin's popularity when it basically showcased an archaic way to deal with the ATM machines requiring ridiculous levels of ID to get some Bitcoin out of it.

Btc enthusiasts forget that they are a tiny minority. Btc is still too new. These machines probably don't do a lot of business. Also, any serious bitcoiners most likely have access to and have been verified with an online btc exchange already.

Maybe in a few years we will see more of these btc ATMs but by then I believe most banks and credit card companies will offer btc purchasing. If btc sticks around they will have no choice

They tend to be located in major cities. Capital cities often have a few, and the biggest city in each region might have one or two. If you live out in the sticks it's difficult finding a nearby ATM. It's probably not profitable to operate ATMs in smaller cities yet. They might start spreading everywhere the next time we go up to a new ATH because it will be more profitable to run one then.

Then you would start to pay exchange and bank fees. If you think about it, the ATM is much more convenient than using an exchange. Most of the time, exchange requires you to verify both address and ID, this can take several days depending on the exchange. After that, a SEPA/Bank transfer would usually take several days. For ATMS, you only require your driver license and cash. Your conversion is done in max two hours if you haven't verify yet.

Maybe someday I or we will get one btm in my country too and I am eagerly waiting for it to watch that type of system really working in front of me.I heard some of my nebour countrys got it already

i agree it just need time it just need to stick around when there are more user bank will have no choice.
but as of now we just need also to stick around and have some faith that it will happen soon.

Its a good hedge to own a BTC atm, if there is another bubble they will make a ton on comission, if not they still make a small amount here and there to pay for themselves.  Its win win.

I would use a Bitcoin ATM often if I didn't have to drive for hours to get to it.

They do seem to like to set up in downtown cores or major traffic zones. Closest one for me is 45 minutes drive.

This certainly didn't work to spread the idea of a Bitcoin ATM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

We are way too early in the game. The more Bitcoin gets exposed in the mainstream the worse. We should only get mainstream exposure once it's all fine tuned and ready for average Joe consumption. But I guess it will be a nice piece of history to look back at those videos and laugh at

1) How archaic the technology was back then
2) The idiots that didn't see the potential and didn't buy cheap Bitcoin

Would love to get a bitcoin and put it in my city.  There is a local gaming pub where they have old school video games and a bar. With a young college crowd.  I think this would be a perfect place for one.

That is it.  I am gonna do some research.

edit-  I would have to set up an Anti-Money Laundering Program.  That sounds like fun.

ATMs are nice when I need quick cash from my BTCs because it take several days to transfer BTC from my wallet to my bank account but I can buy BTC instantly to my wallet for 1% which is much less than an ATM, and sell for 1% fee which is also much less.  The 5-10% you pay each time for an ATM adds up tremendously over time and really eats at returns.

the machines will be like gold when we see the next wave of adoption. (but not with 1 MB blocks my friends)

Those are the issues, they cost a lot & literally nobody uses them. Are there any kind of records that indicate the usage statistics of bitcoin ATM's in the major cities of the world? I'd be interested to see such stats if there are any.

There's no point having bitcoin ATM's in smaller, less populated places.

I have to be honest, I've never even seen a bitcoin ATM in real life.
There is a location map for lots of them on CoinDesk if anybody wants to take a look though.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-atm-map/

Not sure how often they update it.

There are many other bitcoin ATM industry charts at http://coinatmradar.com/charts/

Those are quite good charts
Seeing how Asia only has 10% of the ATMS there is certainly a market that can be grown their for money remittance where I assume two way atms which convert to cash are in high demand.

bitcoin ATM is all about legalize,and many user in that country. its only matter of time..

The SF bay area has maybe 3 Bitcoin ATMs. Two are at startups promoting Bitcoin, and one is a one-way (buy Bitcoins only) vending machine in a mall.

There used to be a Robocoin at Hacker Dojo, but few people used it. The terms sucked; the buy/sell spread was about 14% plus a sizable service charge. The machine used to display the buy/sell prices when idle, but that feature was removed, after which people stopped looking at it.

Where I live, there are no bitcoin ATMs. The problem is, no one goes to the ATM to get online money. They go to an ATM to get real money, so they can go pay for something in person rather than over the internet. I think slowly, as more people find out about bitcoin, there will be more and more built around the world. ;D ;D ;D

Of all the ATM's the one that people just despise is Robocoin I can understand why their spreads were so High given the terms of the contract, the vending machine lamassus are where its likely seeing use.
That said 3 isn't too bad for the area they might pick up given time and some good PR.

I certainly wish that they spread faster. Bitcoin ATMs are a great advertisement and an easy way to get some lower amounts of bitcoins. They are important for a mass adoption in my opinion.

I understand that they are very expensive to operate though, but the are also cool as hell in my opinion.

but it need more people to get spreaded around , just in my opinion , if in a city atleast 200 people using bitcoin probably there will be built an ATM