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Title: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: Frizz23 on October 09, 2012, 06:42:43 AM As most of you know there are only 21 Million Bitcoin. Half of them are already found/mined.
Sooner or later transaction fees - and not newly found Bitcoins - become the incentive for miners to keep their equipment running. Thing is: If nobody uses Bitcoins, there will be no transactions. Without transactions, there will be no transactions fees. Without transaction fees, all the shiny new ASICs become worthless pretty soon. And there will never be a 2nd or 3rd generation of ASICs. Therefore I see it as part of BFLs responsibility to do some lobby work and promote the idea of Bitcoin. They have the money and influence to actually make a difference. I mean, it's the same like with everything in economics & politics: E.g. car manufacturers influence politicians to make sure that proper roads are built. The banking industry influences politicians to make laws that are in their interest. Fizzy drink companies start advertising campaign praising their sugar water as the drink for the young&dynamic ones. etc. IMHO it is part of BFLs "responsibility" (and in their best interest) to make sure Bitcoins become widely adopted. ------- "With great power there must also come - - great responsibility!" (Stan Lee / Uncle Ben) Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: shwoop on October 09, 2012, 10:23:36 AM Without transaction fees, all the shiny new ASICs become worthless pretty soon. And there will never be a 2nd or 3rd generation of ASICs. I think you're underestimating how long its going to take for the remaining coins to be mined. I expect the ASIC arena to become much like the current graphics card arena where faster cores, more refined architectures and so forth push development on a cyclical basis. We'll be using a very strange beast by the time most of the coins have been mined. Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: emuLOAD on October 09, 2012, 11:25:57 AM A second or third generation ASIC really depends on the future survival of Bitcoin. If Bitcoin continues to grow, perhaps even thrive, then it's trivial to predict that these companies will continue to invest in new products to meet demand once first-gen becomes less sought after.
The Bitcoin network is designed to produce a specific amount of bitcoin per day on average, so the arrival of ASICs will not affect this in the long run, nor will it noticeably shorten the time it will take to completely mine Bitcoin. There is quite some life in mining ahead. If there are no transaction, it means bitcoin has died completely. Even just the act of mining creates transactions, and anybody wishing to use bitcoin for anything must eventually transact. If bitcoin survives, it will be a non-issue, if bitcoin collapses and dies out... well, again a non-issue really. I think the whole community has in it's best interest the survival of bitcoin and its growth, but I'm not sure why you are singling out BFL as having a special responsibility. It is in fact probably more the "responsibility" (though I really don't like this term in the context we are discussing) of businesses making money directly in the BTC economy, which includes exchanges, services and stores. In real life it isn't a single company making one tiny part of the overall industry ecosystem which lobbies governments, it's generally down to a larger umbrella group to actually do the lobbying on behalf of the industry rather than on behalf of a single business. In some way, that's what the (apparently much hated) Bitcoin Foundation could/should be(come). Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: HolyScott on October 18, 2012, 02:40:01 AM I thought it was gonna take like 40 years to find all the coins?
Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: crazyates on October 18, 2012, 03:30:47 AM I thought it was gonna take like 40 years to find all the coins? We will never actually mine all 21 million coins. The way reward halving works, in 40 years (or 10 reward halves), each block will only reward 0.024 BTC as a reward. Now TX fees will make each block worth a LOT more than that, but those won't be newly minted coins. We will be crazy close to 21million, but never quite get there. Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: odolvlobo on October 18, 2012, 03:50:46 AM I thought it was gonna take like 40 years to find all the coins? After 40 years, 99.9% of the total BTC will have been mined. After 132 years, the block reward will drop to 0. This pages has a table showing the schedule: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply)Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: poon-TANG on October 18, 2012, 04:41:48 AM There is no possible way to mine all the coins.
Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: Zeek_W on October 18, 2012, 09:58:57 AM Satoshi should just bump it up to 42 mil :P
Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: Morblias on October 18, 2012, 01:16:09 PM Satoshi should just bump it up to 42 mil :P Just like the US should print $16 trillion to pay off their debt, right?! Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: jojo69 on October 18, 2012, 05:37:02 PM Satoshi should just bump it up to 42 mil :P Just like the US should print $16 trillion to pay off their debt, right?! wow, what an idea!! you should write Mr. Bernanke with that Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: bobitza on October 18, 2012, 05:42:09 PM YAUBFLT
Yet another useless BFL thread. Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: odolvlobo on October 18, 2012, 06:27:14 PM There is nothing that makes it their responsibility. It is probably in their best interest, just like any other business based on bitcoin. But it isn't their responsibility to make sure that your decision to buy mining equipment was a good one.
Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: pyromaniac on October 18, 2012, 07:04:47 PM Satoshi should just bump it up to 42 mil :P Prove this, please! ::)Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: bce on October 18, 2012, 08:58:18 PM At some point, the block reward will be less than one half of a Satoshi, right?
Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: crazyates on October 19, 2012, 03:38:58 AM At some point, the block reward will be less than one half of a Satoshi, right? Block rewards will keep getting cut in half, about every 4 years.2009: 50.0BTC 2013: 25.0BTC 2017: 12.5BTC 2021: 6.25BTC 2025: 3.13BTC 2029: 1.56BTC 2033: 0.78BTC 2037: 0.39BTC 2041: 0.20BTC 2045: 0.10BTC 2049: 0.05BTC 2053: 0.02BTC After that, just cut the reward in half every 4 years. No an exact science, but close enough. Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: odolvlobo on October 19, 2012, 03:57:33 AM At some point, the block reward will be less than one half of a Satoshi, right? About 128 years from now, the block reward will drop from 1 satoshi to 0 satoshi. See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term)Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: Zeek_W on October 19, 2012, 08:27:16 AM For those who replied to my '42mil' statement. I hope you realised I wasn't being serious...
Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: psilan on October 19, 2012, 10:45:50 AM BFL /= BTC
Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: Syke on October 19, 2012, 11:10:37 AM IMHO it is part of BFLs "responsibility" (and in their best interest) to make sure Bitcoins become widely adopted. It's your choice whether to buy from them or not. Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: bobitza on October 19, 2012, 09:52:19 PM IMHO it is part of BFLs If you phrase it like this I agree with you. Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: SgtSpike on October 19, 2012, 09:56:09 PM IMHO it is part of BFLs If you phrase it like this I agree with you. Title: Re: Butterfly Labs responsibility Post by: firefop on October 20, 2012, 02:26:58 AM There is nothing that makes it their responsibility. It is probably in their best interest, just like any other business based on bitcoin. But it isn't their responsibility to make sure that your decision to buy mining equipment was a good one. I agree - not their responsibility, but in their best interests. In the networks best interests as well. Rather than lobbying, I suggest BFL branch out in their design - work with some developers to make a POS device that they can sell cheaply to B&M businesses to accept bitcoins. Heck if they put a jally in each one, they could *give* them away for free and get returns on the mining that the pos machine would do forever. They've already got the hardware design skills, why not use them to further the adoption. |