Bitcoin Forum

Physical safety of the contents of your box. Negligible risk. Right now I would prefer to deposit the unencrypted wallet. If bitcoin-storage/inheritance were a major business in itself (and therefore the contents predictable), I might err on the side of caution and only store the password (spreading around the encrypted wallet among my heirs at the same time), just in case of a true bank-robbery (when was the last time a bank vault was actually emptied?, just out of interest).

I suppose you would need to fork from the bitcoin-network to do that, right?

Can I spend the bitcoins myself while they are in limbo to my heir? (if not, its useless)

Where is it documented and is there a client that can already do so?

Are there safety issues?

I don't understand how this problem can't be countered with a simple will. Unless you're implying people are stupid enough to have several thousands of dollars worth of wealth not plan to pass it to someone. The problem isn't technical, simply PEBCAK.

A piece of paper with the password to thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars?  Sounds like a big risk to take, unless you are 100% trusting of whoever holds the will.

Of course, any decent lawyer isn't going to risk his livelihood for anything under 6 figures, but when you get higher up there in net worth (which could happen unexpectedly if we continue to have such extreme rallies on value), the incentive to steal becomes that much greater.  And many lawyers are sleezeballs to start with, so I wouldn't put it past one of them to steal from someone's will with a written password...

You did read the post, right?

How are they to access your encrypted wallet? ??? Or dont you encrypt the wallet?  :o
How can you easily pass them the key without risk?

Don't forget to update instructions on how to convert it to cash as some people may prefer hard cash especially if you die within the next $10 years. The messages of people asking how to get in will be nothing compared to people asking how to get out.

I am kinda startled too. This is not about what is legal. Yes, I am talking about crime here.

Even nowadays third parties run with entrusted money if you just plain give it to them (often enough); its called theft or embazzlement... happens quite often. To me it seems you want to get rid of safety practices that are quite usual nowadays. We dont keep large amounts of cash lying around (even with the numbers written down). Bitcoins are somewhat more difficult to run with than plain cash (though more easy than cash in a bank account), but still. Actually, running away with bitcoins is trivial (and safe), spending them is a problem. But, there will be ways to launder bitcoins just as much as there are ways to launder money today.
Besides, I hope the third party doesnt publicize his business or he becomes a target himself. Lawyers who regularly have wills with password information and their client address book? Well, as a thief, I will certainly get into that lawyers office. (as a thief would nowadays if i knew sbd kept the safe-numbers of wealthy clients, yummy).

What you are suggesting to do with bitcoins, i dont think you would do with dollars.

A part of the problem arise because i consider it as a problem almost everybody will have to solve. Right now, if you have a safe with cash at home you might give your lawyer the number (i wouldnt), but part of the protection is that nobody knows your lawyer has the number (written down somewhere, i suppose) If that were commonplace... With everybody needing to find a solution for this problem... i wouldnt give my password to my lawyer, all i am saying.

Another problem is that its difficult for authorities to prove who transferred the bitcoins away (unless sbd starts spending). You transfer bitcoins to a new address and let them lie... The old owner will not ever get them back (unlike with real cash which can often be retrieved if traced), bitcoins can be traced but not retrieved... with actual cash or bank orders you can usually connect them to a person. I have trouble figuring out how you can pinpoint the lawyer as the guy who transferred your bitcoins to a new address (if he keeps them there and doesnt spend).

All i am saying is: Wallets with lots of bitcoins need to be secure. Encryption is way better than any way to secure money/cash currently (vulnerable to extortion though), but if fails when you die. So you have to find ways to securely pass on the password. And for that I considered various options, some quite comparable to safeguarding valuables today (where similar concerns about theft exist), some different because we are talking about a password that is only useful with the encrypted wallet (you have two parts, only together they are useful for a criminal - which is nice feature for this purpose).

But you seem to think you are protected by laws .... even if you make it easy for the criminals. *shrug* Sometimes works, sometimes it doesnt. I lock my door and do not rely on trespassing laws.

Gods, i am falling asleep, but a reply is needed.

Worst offender: quoting you:"Several banks will require you to fill a pass key on top of having the keys to a deposit box before you get clearance to the box room. And life still goes on nevertheless." The code (if used) is usually not known by the heirs. A key is often missing. But this is no problem. Key difference: With proper documentation of death and inheritance the box is opened (drilled if need be) and the contents given over. That is impossible with an encrypted wallet and one of the key reason i come off as paranoid here.
If you read my original post again ... you will note that i do talk about trust, yes, but its a secondary issue. My main concern was always losing the passport (death of the persons you gave the password to, the same persons losing the password, etc.). Only in the discussions after that the talk centered mostly on trust/crime. The main advantage of the safe deposit box (which i preferred as an option, although i admitted that family/lawyers and even bank accounts! were valid options) is that there is a physical representation of the password there, with access quite secure even with the keys/codes to the box lost. (because the bank keeps the contracts)

("giving it to the party straigth up"): Read the paragraphs starting with "First, " and "Second, " again... There is nothing about trust there. Even trusting my heirs completely (which i do mine), there still significant problems. I gave my daughter my password. We both die in a car crash. How is my niece going to get the money? Should I also give her the password? Ive been in the same car with the both of them! How far do i spread it around before the password its beyond my control (simply because of negligence, not malicious intent)

Those are the 2 most important points I think (and related). We got on a tangent (trust/crime), which was never my main point (although it can be a problem and therefor should not be neglected; i wanted to list the problems thoroughly). My main point was losing the password in the process of getting it across. Crime comes into play once you try to solve the first problem by giving the password to ever more people.

Depending on the way the software is run... the trivial implementation would have the password stored somewhere in plaintext? (to send it along after some time) That does seems kind of weird, i could leave my wallet at home unencrypted doing that (almost)... i might just be misunderstanding your proposal.

:) Off to bed, hear from you tomorrow (well todays, its 4 am :)).

but it has got nothing to do with passing on your bitcoins; you will still need a way to do that.