Bitcoin Forum

Why do I keep getting this negative vibe from people as soon as they hear that word? Whats the difference between 'saving' and 'hoarding'? what is the difference between hoarding/saving virtual currency and physical goods? We hoard our entire lives, we collect stamps, buy cars, houses, and all sorts of junk, but for some reason that's OK to do, wasting your money on some meaningless junk is OK, OH REALLY?!

If you say hoarding is bad because it will slow economic growth, I say, good riddens, if the market does not know how to produce something more valuable than some imaginary coins then maybe the economy should not be growing in the first place!

Nothing. What's wrong with those who think that saving money is bad?

People who get upset at "hoarding" are Keynesians. Don't blame them though, they've probably been educated in public schools.

What kind of elitist nonsense is that?  What difference does it make about public vs. private education?  Money makes you smarter?

An economy can't function if nobody spends any money.

this

A currency serves two purposes:

1) value exchange
2) value storage

These two possibly ought to be decoupled... because a currency that's inherently good at storage, is inherently bad at exchange... usually by very very minor degrees... but bad nonetheless. Fiat is designed for storage.... so the people with a lot of it get something for nothing. Old grain-based currencies were really good for exchange because you needed to spend them before they depreciated.

So. Whether that's good for bitcoins depends on what you think bitcoins are for.

Personally, I think bitcoins are "for" exchange... I want to see a really dynamic economy evolve out of them that isn't constantly pushing money uphill to people who are already rich. That said, the value of them is so meteoric at the moment, I can't help but hoard them. What started out as a couple of hundred dollars is now a couple of thousand.

I think possibly this meteoric rise in value might be what drives them in the early days... so I'm not complaining. Sit back, see what happens.

Public schools suck.  I know, I slept through one, and graduated in the top 10%.  Luckily, I went to a good college that actually challenged my mind a little.  I'm not sure the private education system is much better, but I'm not sure how it can be worse.

The way i see it is saving is accumulating a currency in the hope of buying something which you cannot currently afford. Hoarding is accumulating currency with no intention of buying something, purely based on the expectation that the value of the currency will increase. This is potentially bad because if the value of the currency drops the hoarders loose confidence and may panic sell, causing a crash.  

The bitcoin economy if functioning, therefore people are spending money.  Also, this has already been beat to death 100 times.

why would people sell an asset that typically appreciates for goods/services?  Because they need that good or service today.  Or else no one would ever sell a house.

It’s wrong because people ought to stay poor, so the debt masters stay in control. You need to buy shit you don’t need with money you don’t have so the economy keeps growing while wasting the earth’s resources.

That’s why credit cards are a great invention!

The idea that value can be stored is *mostly a myth. An ideal currency under the right conditions can appear as if it is storing value and that's good enough most of the time so it's not too much of a stretch to behave as if it really is "storing value".

But ultimately value is the willingness of another person to give you something else for what you have. Willingness is not storable so the capability to store value can only be emulated.

*You can store tangible goods and they will keep some inherent utility but that's a minor part of the economy.

This is the way I look at it:

Bitcoins can't continue to grow in value at this rate forever. Let's say Bitcoin really takes off, fulfilling all of our dreams and becoming the dominant world currency, trading at 1 BTC for 1,000,000,000 USD. I sincerely believe those with "Bitcoin hoards" will part with some of their stash in order to improve their quality of life, purchase goods, fund projects, etc. Even if they don't and end up like the little old lady who dies in a shack surrounded by filth but with a mattress stuffed with cash, their BTC will just get passed on to their heirs who are more likely to inject them back into the economy. By hoarding bitcoins now, they're simply taking them out of circulation temporarily.

But the fact that it is money means that people spend it.  This simple taughtology invalidates the most common and erroneous criticisms of Bitcoin.

Hoarding is only bad if everyone stops hoarding at the same time.

Do you think that everyone will stop hoarding bitcoins at the same time? If this was true, I would look at this as a great sale, and just buy more. Maybe there is a good reason as to why everyone would stop hoarding at the same time, such as a bitcoin network hack/crash.

Sometimes it is an incredible discount, like the massive sell off during the financial collapse, other times it is an appropriate reaction to an event.

Depends on the situation

Well if somebody need a house, he can choose - still keep  BTC, and live like a bum, or buy a house (spend BTC), rent a house (spend BTC).
Peaple will become more carefull with their willings. They will start to see difference between what they need, and what they really dont.  
    Its of course - awfull,  terror from the net, we are doomed. Stop, - why ?

YES! these are my EXACT thoughts! as long as the system remains secure, I think hoarding should become the norm. I don't see a problem with people gaining value from 'nothing' (its not really from nothing, its more like the system becomes more stable and valuable because more people use it and the ones that were willing to stick their tail out there first to make it more stable and are rewarded)

Hoarding is evil; saving is virtuous.

 

In a deflationary currency like BTC, some goods will be "devaluated" more than others: All goods which serve essential needs will receive higher valuation than any luxury stuff. This could change our way of life substantially. But I don't think this is a bad thing at all...

On the other hand, at some point the BTC valuation gain will slowdown and reach a dynamic equilibrium - there will still be changes in value but not as extreme as we see today, which are mainly caused by a huge influx of people entering BTC (this is far from over).

The more the hoarders hoard, the more my coins can purchase. The total value of goods exchanged remains the same in either case.

HOARD ON!

I detect a sense of humor in that tongue-in-check statement. 
Funny how the idea of "good & evil" can get be turned on it head.

Example #1: People with poor credit buy houses they can't afford.
We have been told that "evil" caused the financial crisis.

Example #2: Bankers demand Congress provide $24 trillion in bail-out funds.
We have been told that is "good" for the economy.

Example $3: Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein says firm is doing 'God's work'

Now that last one should make you laugh out loud. Talk about seeing good
and evil from a distorted perspective. Maybe Lloyd is referring to when his firm
stole $93 billion from Colonel Muammar Gadhafi. Maybe it is "good" to take from
those who do "evil" -- maybe that is his idea of doing God's work!

Yes, I'm beginning to see it now!

International Banks like Goldman Sachs have been about God's work as they
rape the PIGS (siphon billions of dollars from the weakest EU economies,
Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain). Yes, it may be cheating and stealing
through monopoly, greed, deceit, and lies, but hey--it all good.

After all, a little austerity is good for the soul, it builds good moral character!
So in the end, you find that Satan is actually employed by God and the
so-called "evil" he does is really part of God's plan to help humanity.

Yes, it is perfectly clear!