Bitcoin Forum

open voting ;D

please vote for more people as possible thanks

I voted for 180 as I have stated before I believe 90 is too short and 1 year is too long but that 180 is a decent compromise.

It would be nice if bitmaintech extends the 90 to 180  hell it would be nicer if they went to a year,but 180 is still 2x the current 90.

philipma thanks to this I added 180 days
If people vote the final result will be sent directly to bitmain. :)

Everyone will vote for longer warranty if it was truly free. You need to add a cost or it is a meaningless poll.

I dont think one year is a good idea. The prime lifetime of a miner is something around 6 months after its original online-ing. As such you'd have to produce many spares for the S5 while its already obsolete. That make absolutely no sense.

A system where if your miner goes crap after 3 months would be to receive part value in coupon toward the next miner. I don't think it would be a good idea for Bitmain to continue producing antminer S5's until the end of 2016 just because some people bought one in late 2015.

Think about it. Why the hell would they do that AND why the hell would WE want them to do that. It would jack up the price a whole lot and i'd be even harder to ROI.

90 days is short but reasonable given the type of product it is, it has a short life span and it's made in limited batches. Don't think it serves the ROI well to push for extended warranty.

The miner would be field tested and faults in chips and such should appear fairly fast if the miners are put to work immediately.

This is a silly question, of course everyone wants longer warranties but its not always practical. You make a finite number of miners in a finite number of batches. You keep a small number of parts to fix future miners. Having to repair miners far beyond their useful lifetimes means everyone is paying for 0.2 miners + labour + shipping alongside their miner.

That would be my fear it is something customers would still be paying for.  It would be tacked on at time of sale on the sales price.  So assuming you have no issues in X extra day's you paid more then you would have had. If somehow you have a bad unit yes this would be great for you.  But bitmain is not going to eat a cost like this.

It's just a different type of product.  The asic world moves fast.  They are looking twords future in most cases and not "old" miners for lack of better term.  If you expect warranty like a GPU for example, it just is not going to happen.

Bitmain could still have a better replacement system. For instance they can and they do run the "outdated hardware" in their own mines for an extended period of time. We know that they keep some, since we know they still have some S2's. Since they can ship them out.

So they could easily have a portion of the miners alloted to stripping down for parts when needed. For instance if its within the 3 month garante, you could maybe send a picture proof and get a replacement shipped.

Having to ship the unit and wait for it to come back often mean you might as well just buy a new one, which is ridiculous.

Then when the warranty is expired, you should still be able to buy S5's parts, where they will go to their mine, grab a miner and strip it down and sell you the part individually. They CAN do this, since again, we know they still have S5's and pretty much everything for more than 1 year after a miner is out of stock.

I just don't think we should be expecting to be covered for free for more than 3 months. I'm just thinking Bitmain's work ethics and customer service post sale for people with defective units is poor at best.

If they did what you suggested it would be an amazing customer service upgrade.  But I don't see it happening on a lot.  On pictures sadly "scammers/ bad guys" would abuse the system.  Say they say controller does not work... get controller and sell it.  Does not work that well if everyone is not honest.

Also some parts are fixed and used again. Most common is controller's for example S3/S5 if you did not have gear it could be stuck as a brick.  You sent it in and they actually reused the parts flashing them and sending out again.   So some parts are good as a business to get back lowers cost compared to having to get a new controller vs using a fixed old one.

And using their personal mines for parts would be very nice of them.  But I don't expect they will start using this method as they loose mining money if done in decent quantity.   

You have some ideas that would be great to happen.  And I would love some of them, but as a business I don't see bitmain doing them.

Back when I went through my S4 ordeal I offered to give them a deposit in BTC, or a credit card to cross ship me a PSU, but even though there was a known issue they just couldn't do it.
I don't think it gets any more fair than a guarantee they would receive the bad part back or they keep the deposit. They could even charge an actual deposit to the card and refund it once the part is back.

Obviously there are other scams which can be done, but all business take some of those same risks, and deal with them head-on while keeping customers happy. I have no doubt bitmain have talented people who can lay out ways to accomplish the same.

Some farms operated by Bitmain are owned by third parties, like the S2 farm that was advertised. With a finite amount of space they don't necessarily hold sufficient stock of older miners.


At some point you have to say "no". Having customers indirectly pay 1-3x the value of a hashing board in air shipping makes no sense. An S5 hashing board (10 months since release) is worth probably $40 yet is going to cost far more than that to ship out. Why, what's the point, exactly who is winning here?

The customers who paid more for their S5s in the first place?
Bitmain who now has to administer 10x more returns?
Bitmain who now has to keep private farms of miners?
The customers who then have to then again pay more for their S5s in the first place?

The correct answer is only UPS and DHL win out of this.

Also it would long term kill the farm's.  It's hard to tell but most likely there is a piece that is most returned.   If they kept pulling from miners even a few a day this would really add up.

Imagine a farm with miners sitting on shelfs waiting to be parted out.  Just does not make sense.  I do agree it would be nice if they made some things in quantity they have long after warranty.  But as a business I cannot expect them to keep stock forever in a industry that moves so fast.

And asking to go from 90 to 1 year is just a lot.  If you wanted more reasonable find some reason that 4-5 months is needed over 3.  If you can find a reason X part craps out every... or some justification that is good enough to warrant them moving it.  Unless we have some good justification then we want better I don't see it happening.

so you're telling me that after 3 months, you break a pcb, after one week break the other, I can throw the miner without being able to buy spare parts? by boys it is absurd.

bitmain could do so: give 6 months warranty and 90 days,
for spare parts after expiry of the 180-day warranty I must be borne by the buyer,
spare parts will only be available for 365 days.

so a user knows that the expiry of 180 days, regardless of its miners work or not, may decide to buy a pair of PCB and set aside in case it fails.

so does a good company, not as bitmain ago, many of us are working with one single PCB, or miner put aside because all 2 pcb burned, and you can not even replace them.

bitmain has a wrong policy.

2 are the things, I put towards more days of warranty and spare parts to the customer,
or it begins to use good material, and not bad material, because what use is bitmain bad material.
we want to see how many of us have burned pcb that do not work?

Well there shouldn't be that many miner breaking down and needing to be replaced, but if so then yes. They need to be able to fulfill their warranty anyways, and having miners offline on shelves waiting to be used as replacement for buyers isint really good because its wasted value.

So they should mine with them. People would get used part replacement but then you're sure they're working right.

From what i understand right now, Bitmain have you ship back your miner and they try to fix it, then ship it back, sometime they mess up and forget parts and do not fix it. Overall its a pretty abysmal quality of service.

This happens because the chips are built with poor materials, which is why we have many errors, and many burned pcb

The problem with this is people who have had bad luck on their returns stick out and get much more attention.  As humans less people go on forums and say thanks for X RMA.  But if problem very good chance it goes to board.

I have had good experience's with bitmain.  I was out of warranty period on S3 needed a controller that was not brick I paid them for it and they shipped it quickly to me.  Now the C1 was syscooling but yes I had horrible experience there.

And I'm not a suck up on bitmain.   But i think they are getting a bad wrap.  No doubt some of the stories we hear they deserve it.  But the stories we don't hear and the machines that keep working they don't get the credit for those.

I'm sure this is not what people want to hear or know.  If anything they are getting more tightened on warranty.  Look at S5+ they shipped with every unit and sent paper - https://bitmain.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206312085-New-S5-Hong-Kong-China-Warranty-  .  Basically if you want to modify it and do not get permission you broke warranty.  If you use 2 instead of 3 PCIe you break warranty.   The list goes on.  But I think they will get more tightened if current continues, and not go the way of more day's and better RMA.

The chip are not build with poor materials. The materials around the chip is cheap.

Best of luck on this adventure. It seems a lot like when the Indiana legislature wanted define the value of Pi to make math easier, decades ago.

Well i hope so, but i can't see RMA/customer service being proper for returns when the only way to get it replaced if its broken is usually sending the part back if under warranty, which may cost as much as just buying a replacement part? Hence its not really a warranty if you need to pay for it?

And yeah i guess i shouldn't place my opinion based on what i hear, but i think the aforementioned issue is objectively based.

My S3 was out of warranty they did me a favor of selling me one. If it was in warranty I would have shipped back and got new one through RMA process.   

Sending back the part would have been cheaper then what I paid.  I think it was like 35-40 dollars.  So if in warranty you could have shipped controller in for less then that.

But if the problem is a blade or two and you need to ship back the whole thing? Might be okay for a 1700$ miner, but for a 100$ miner? Not so much imo. Or a 250$ S5 might still not be worth the 100$ shipping. Then again probably none of these miners are still under warranty, but still, what if its a small U3? Shipping back is probably the same as buying a new one.

Are you sure they don't allow shipping blades back?  I know they have tightened warranty some.  But I would think shipment of bad blades is still allowed.

I could be wrong though as been a while since dealing with a bitmain RMA.  Are they really making you ship the entire unit when you know for sure it it's a hashing blade?

Well again, i guess i'm biased. I didn't do it myself, but heres the story;

The half working antminer S5 i bought, previously had to be shipped in it entirety to Bitmain because of one bad blade. Then later on he received it back  and it was missing the black metal bracket thing you screw the controller in and then into the heatsink that hold the controller in place and prevent the miner from being wobbly.

And no part had been replaced, the dead PCB was still dead.

So i can try to not be biased and call Bitmain incompetent for this, but the fact still remain its easy to assume that you're required to send the whole miner back. And to be fair, in the best case scenario, you still had to pay for RMA, which isin't really what you'd want from hardware on warranty.

I asked to buy bitmain 2 blades, was paying them because my miners have five months, and are out of warranty, but bitmain told me that no longer produce pcb S5, and I had to look on amazon or ebay.
a response of shit,

And I repeat to say, chips are built with poor material, that's why they are cheap.

Now I bought a used PCB, from Tupsu, a user of the forum here, I'm waiting for is that I get.

Can you link to anything to support chips are of poor quality?  Just seems like a big accusation.    It seems like other things could fry a board that chips can't be a catch all.

Where are you getting info on chip material?

I have no information about the chip, but I assure you that are built with poor materials,
I can understand that in the first batch which is bad, but they do not in any lot.
have you ever wondered why bitmain like many Chinese only give 90 days warranty? do you really think that Chinese policy? in everything you buy of any material guarantee is 24 months or 12 months. 90 days does not exist in any part of the world.
all users who bought S5 had PCB faulty, or burned, regardless if they have the frequency 350, or 400 ,.

tries to open a poll, and see how many people have pcb not working.
few are the people who have been lucky not to have problems, 10% without problems, and 90% defective material.

that's why I say that the material of the chip is poor and cheap.
looks at the power that sells bitmain, as ever with that gives you 365 warranty?
and the miner 90?

listens to the problem is not the guarantee, the problem is that if a user after his warranty is over, must have the possibility (paying) to buy new spare parts. at least for 24 months you can find spare parts (new) is not used as bitmain, who sent pcb used.
I do not understand you it seems that you agree that if you break your miner, for failure to take the chip and set aside :o

I just am not sure as look at the gekko science compac - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173963.0 .  It runs a BM chip and is rock solid.  I have been putting them through overclocks, and sidehack and novak did an insane OC.  So I don't think we can say the chips are cheap material they do work.   I mention this miner just as I have had so much fun playing with it.

They do normally preform to spec on their chips.  Their S7 was not good for them on this.  They now have two batches next as some did under-preform but on first batches sometimes that does happen.

I have had a LOT of mining gear and only 1 bad blade from Bitmain.  It was a C1 after a few months.  So I guess my experience is just a little happier/better then what yours has been. 

I'm not saying your not valid.  Or that I'm right great quality.  Just that you really cannot lump all chips  together. 

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Perhaps you are part of the 10% of the lucky :)

do you think you can fix the pcb?
What burns normally?

https://i.imgur.com/3z67dq4.jpg




this and the pcb, and the other is mounted on the miners, but is off, is disconnected, equal to this



U101

Now I'm waiting for arrives pcb I bought from Tupsu, when comes the mount, and see what happens

Again you make up numbers like the 10 percent.  I wish you would remain with true facts not generalizations. I can understand you are not happy with bitmain, had a bad experience.   But I suggest sticking to points you can back up with facts, those are what will hold power.

And I might be a lucky one.   Or it might have something to do with treating all my miners nice.  During summer I pumped tons of CFM though them to get hot air out.   I successfully mined all summer with no problems (other then 1 c1 board).

You saw the photo of the PCB? as you think


You saw the photo of the PCB? as it seems?
according to your experience that definitely have much more knowledge than me, can you tell me what pcb seeing this? what can be the harm?

I never mentioned I had more knowledge.  I just said your argument would have more power if you stuck to something that is fact, not a made up number or generalize on all chips with zero proof.

I can not touch or do anything to PCB through a picture.  So I cannot really tell you much about it.  It really would need to be sent in somewhere, unless obvious reason is visible in picture. 

I'm not saying I'm all knowing.  Or that you having bad luck does not suck.  Just that you should use facts.

All 3 companies that sell to the public have a 90 day warranty, including Spondoolies.

sure, I know that all 3 companies give 90 days, in fact is wrong.

how many pcb sp20 have burned?
how many pcb bitmain were burned?
and how many of the other company (I forget the name) were burned?

I always hear talk about problems with products bitmain,
or hardware problems, or you burn the PCB, or the controller does not work anymore

We can not know those numbers because we don`t know how many devices are sold in total. But from my conclusion Bitmain sold highest number of devices to general public unlike other companies. They have chosen that way and now because of lack of knowledge and low quality components they have angry customers. They are doing what they can to make things right but at the end they are for profit company and they will not do anything to compromise their profit. We can be angry, disapointed and with losess but they were and are still only company that is willing to sell their devices to general public.

at least give the possibility to customers who bought the S5 can buy spare parts., do not give even a coupon for remedy,


do not respond to emails

If your emails are anything like your posts in this thread, I can understand why. They probably give you an answer, you say "no" and then send them another 6 emails.

It would not surprise me either.  The customer is always right is no longer what most business's use.   Some customers cost to much to retain so as a bushiness they don't want everyone in many cases.   Even companies as big as Amazon if you are a customer who causes more trouble/returns then your worth they do close some accounts.

Also it is a Holiday in China.  So getting a email right now is pretty lucky.  For most part until after holiday most emails will not get answered.  And chances are there will be a backlog where it is a  day or two of catch up.

What do you mean?

Yeah increase the warranty so prices go even higher, great idea  ::)

It is true they will not eat the cost of it.  Anything extra will be paid for.   They are a buisness and they want to make max profit.

Just like idea of photo proof of bad parts.   If they did that BM will jack up price to cover it.  But I think it's safe to say they will make people send parts to them unless you buy part and are out of warranty.

I'm selling my S5, and I asked bitmain I send them the PCB faulty, for a coupon for S7. to me the pcb do not need any more.I am awaiting response from them.

It's the weekend so communication is not very big.  But they have never dealt coupons before for sending in parts.   I highly doubt they start now.

You have to remember they are a business.  If something cost's them more then it's worth they chances are won't do it.  They don't want S5's in their data  centers they sold a lot of used ones to make room for other miners and make a profit.

there are many users with pcb s5 fails, then they could sell to these users and make profit

"many users" = not many users out of 10,000s of S5s sold.

Also it was mentioned a faulty one.  So it would be a crapshoot.  Bitmain might get something that is junk and would take more money to repair then it's worth.

Bitmain is not going to go to a model you ship them old parts and they pay or give compensation.  Dogie is right about small overall   Also keep in mind when they mad them they did it in MASS quanity so the price they paid might be quite a bit less then you would want for a pcb anyways. 

If they felt there was a big need they would produce them again.  That is just how it works.

so that we do with the PCB faulty,? the throw? and we expect that fail as well as other left without miner?

Just ask for warranty and send them the faulty board in.

If out of warranty you talk nice to bitmain, and ask them how much to send in for another.   And if they are out you don't have a ton of options you have to turn to 3rd party options.

You can sell it, buy a new one from a 3rd party.  Is that great? No... but you are not going to get a coupon for a broken PCB.  Just look at S7 refunds they are not into coupons at the moment.  And they just never have bought old gear back.