Bitcoin Forum

First to declare, I know this is a scam, but we can also disscuss the feasibility, and then to prevent its emergence.


I suddenly thought of a unethical way to steal bitcoins.



which were credit card or bank transfer able to chargeback? and which exchange support them?

firstly, you transfer money to exchanges, buy bitcoins with all of money and withdraw bitcoins. once bitcoin confirmed, you should complain to your card provider or bank that the exchange is a scam and ask to chargeback. finally you recovere your money and get the bitcoin also.

I think this is quite useful in those country which disrespect the legitimate property of people and never admit bitcoin, like Russia, China etc..



what is your idea? How to prevent it?

Won't work. Exchange has your bank info and public address. They have records of you transferring money and getting btc. Your attempt at fraud will get exposed.

As for credit cards... No one in their right mind accepts cc for btc sales.

I have a better scam. Build a wallet that looks like any other wallet. Has one difference. When you send btc to it, it shows the tx and balance, however, in reality it has sent all btc to your address at a mixer. By the time they figure it out you could be long gone.

You could even mimic existing wallets and mimic their download pages, tricking users to download your bogus black hole wallet

Basically a dummy wallet, a bait n switch scam. It would only work for a while until exposed but still you could grab a fair amount of btc

I'm actually surprised this hasn't happened already

Thats old man story, now it works no more , but if you can spoof your details to Exchange site then you can make it go. You had thought good but you need to think much more , any more ideas just post here.

Credit cards can be reversed, but it is harder than most people thing even when you have your credit card cloned or when they make a mistake and put wrong buys in your card. I don't think it is feasible for the coommon scammer.

And bank transfer only can be reversed by justice. Banks are not the central bank, they cant print money at will and undo transactions at will.

Some stupid people actually do accept credit cards and paypal payments on p2p trading platforms. I have read threads where people charged back many forms of payments including gift cards that were purchased with credit cards and chargebacked at a later date (eg. localbitcoins).

I strongly protest against anyone committing fraud but we must think in such a way in order to protect ourselves from unscrupulous individuals.

I don't think the chargeback of the creditcard will be easy, I think they will ask you ehat exchange you used and such info and they will contact them and see if you tell them the truth. I personally don't tink that the creditcard company is that stupid to believe everyone and return their money...

And if this would work it is illegal.

The thing is that I think this was possible to do much easier before. Today I think, this is much harder. If you would do this stuff in France for example, you would have to go to the police and sign a statement that you had nothing to do with this. So you would essentially lie to the police.

Then they would review your case and this takes up to 3 months where they would put pieces of puzzle together, compare IP adresses, Bitcoin adresses, your previous log ins. They would also request your documents, log ins, purchases from the exchanges. They are not stupid, their cyber crime department. And they have much more experience nowadays, I mean we are in 2015. Chances that you don't slip somewhere along the way are pretty slim. Not to mention that you can have your bank accounts closed, etc, if they catch you in a scam.

Always woundered, that is there any possible way to hide your teansactions on blockchain so that they will be difficult to be linked to you, or we will have to use bitcoin mixers/tumblers or convert to altcouns and then convert back to bitcoins on other exchange.

Regards

Bitcoin is specific in this way. Many people say that Bitcoin is anonymous and it is anonymous only if you make sure that your real world identity cannot be connected to your Bitcoin address. On the other side, Bitcoin is all but anonymous since all of your transaction history will be visible online, granted in a form of addresses. So if you really know what you are doing and if you are very careful, you can hide your real world identity but you will still be identifiable by the addresses.

I am not sure about mixers and tumblers. Their owners claim that they work but that's hard believable to me. Also sending to the exchanges and exchanging for alts won't work either since exchange operators will have all of the pieces of the puzzle and would be able to easily identify you.

The problem is that you really can't cheat institutions like banks and exchanges. That primitive chargeback scam method will work only on individual trades, when your trade partner can't really prove that chargeback was unjustified.

Like I said earlier chargebacks happen every day to people who trade BTC for paypal or giftcards on peer to peer exchanges. Some people just never learn :(

The title should be "Commit chargeback fraud to get arrested".  :P

the topic itself is wrong and what you are saying is not ethical, you are telling people and giving idea to scam, with paypal and direct transaction are before itself doing lot of scams.

That's a known technique and a risky one too. It's not so easy to chargeback using a CC nor a bank account as you need to mention that you have been trading bitcoins which is not a legal currency and then you also need to provide your source of earning those bitcoins which can lead to your account getting freezed. People also hack bank accounts and the money gets chargedback after the exchange takes place and this is same as scamming and a criminal act.

first of all you should change the topic to "use chargeback to steal bitcoin"
besides i don't know any exchanger that accepts credit cards, because they can get scammed. also the exchangers ask for all sorts of identifications in case anybody pull something like this off, so they can pursue them.
on the other hand (AFAIK) doing a charge back should be done by contacting your bank and providing them with good reasons. it is not like you click a button and the money comes back to you whenever you want it.

Yes but this is PayPal. Doing a chargeback on the PayPal is a breeze. All you need to fade is click few times, say that your account has been hacked and you will have your money back in 2 days, no questions asked.

Doing a chargeback with your bank is not that easy and it takes much more time and you can get in a lot of trouble if you actually lied to the bank/police.

This happens all the time. Take a look at the LBC forums. People will charge back if they are able to 90% plus of the time. Traditional financial institutions and PP will almost always side with the party doing the chargeback. As for credit cards, I won't go anywhere near them. One can only do so much to protect themselves. Escrow, receipts, shipping an invoice, etc. Even with all of that people will take advantage and charge back if they see the opportunity. It part of why reputation systems are in place. Nothing will stop it better options are trading for another crypto, cash, etc. PPMC(which is probably a stolen code or gotten from ransomeware anyway) is an option but not a great one.

This is not true if the party on the other side is an institution like an exchange.
There will be a more thorough investigation.

True, a business is far more likely to pursue and succeed in invistigation and recovery of funds in a fraudulent chargeback case. My post was more specific to purchasing/trading with an individual. As I'm fairly certain the OP is fishing for ideas on how to do this without getting charged with a crime or pursued in a civil case, I'm going to leave this thread alone moving forward.

lol, your scam looks well, but if some one build a bitcoin wallet or site, you think anyone would to use it?  for this scam, you have to show a good performance in public, and it need to promote and publicize, this scam has a higher cost.

and if anyone in their right mind use a unknow wallet?

so it's better to look for some exchangers and sellers who accept credit cards or any chargeback payments

yes, I just see some people are keen to use credit cards to trade OTC like your said localbitcoins and buy gift card like gyft, it's dangourous.

learn and prevent

too late until met scam to learn