Bitcoin Forum

There are rumors that Russia are thinking to create its digital bitruble:

According to: http://cointelegraph.com/news/115302/russia-to-create-bitruble-a-state-run-digital-currency-for-2016 (http://cointelegraph.com/news/115302/russia-to-create-bitruble-a-state-run-digital-currency-for-2016):

"The Bank of Russia has begun studies of Bitcoin’s blockchain technology for potential future use. This has led to rumors that Russia has decided to begin work on a new national digital currency, the BitRuble, that will be managed and overseen by the state central banking system, according to late evening reports out of El Mundo in Spain."

Everyone which understand Spanish can find the article in which is based the above here: http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2015/09/17/55fb0200268e3e8c708b456e.html (http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2015/09/17/55fb0200268e3e8c708b456e.html)

Not only Russia but even United States are thinking the same thing. According to this article: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ibm-federal-reserve-want-create-bitcoin-knock-off/ (https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ibm-federal-reserve-want-create-bitcoin-knock-off/)

"It was only a matter of time. The ultra-advanced, superior technology of the digital currency Bitcoin and it's Blockchain public ledger system are in danger of being co-opted. The tacit compliments of the financial establishment for the Bitcoin Blockchain, not Bitcoin the currency, over the past year are starting to be followed with action. IBM, in conjunction with your centralized banking elite, have discussed plans to perpetuate the future of national currencies, like the U.S. Dollar, through their own digital fiat-currency system."

In this article is even this phrase:

"Keep in mind that only preliminary discussions have been made, and nothing has been finalized. These discussions have taken place with privately-owned Federal Reserve, and other countries may also be potential suitors for this new digitized fiat currency system. The Bank of England may also be very interested in this endeavor, as they lauded the Bitcoin Blockchain in a September 2014 report. The BOE described the blockchain's open ledger as a "significant innovation" that could transform the financial system."

So even England is thinking about the creation of its digital currency.

Are there coins (if created) a risk for bitcoin? Can compete bitcoin with these coins which will be supported by the most important Authorities of every country? Bitcoin have no protectors except their lovers which have not any power except their will to produce, to spread and to use it worldwide. Are them so strong to compete with the Authorities of the above (maybe every) countries (country)?

Bitcoin is ignored by most of the countries and regulated only in few of those. See here for more info about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country)

As a conclusion: Will survive bitcoin if everything above will became true? It will be possible that every country have its national digital coin? Which are your arguments in which is based your answer?

I think it's not so easy for each country to create and popularize their own digital currency , it need many factors and consume a large periods of time, and even can't get international success like Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is universal currency used -almost- everywhere in the whole world, and its growing up daily nowdays, so i don't think that's can affect the Bitcoin's future

I think if some countries will create their own cryptocurrency this will be good for Bitcoin. BTC is the most established and trusted cryptocurrency in the world, the main negative attribute of which is the lack of information among the world's population. The emergence of the new cryptocurrencies, especially of those made on the Government's level, will inevitably draw more attention to BTC and this a good thing.

I don't get it why other countries is trying to make their own cryptocurrency
Bitcoin is universal and accepted everywhere unlike fiat which you need to change to other currency in order to use it on other country :))
Leave crypto currency alone,we already have hundreds of crypto currencies  ::)

Thanks for your comment.

For the same reasons the bitcoiners love bitcoin. For its qualities. An economy based on a digital currency will (may) be different from actual economies. It will be an experiment, but the hopes are for better. Otherwise no one of the above Authorities will care about those.

 
 I think first countrys with his national cryptocurrencys can be Scotland,if thay will separate from Great Britaign,it can happen,it was even featured in his press,that Scotland needs his own crypto
Next  one can be Catalunia,but i think it is good idea to have own bitnational crypto
easy and cheap for financial transactions

Well the way they got going, in 10 years we will have over 100 national and bankster cryptocurrencies. Quite unbelievable. And then they say that Bitcoin is not innovative!

I guess that this is their way of fighting Bitcoin. They cannot dismiss it completely, so they will try and create some semi solutions that are pretty much doomed from the beginning, since they are completely centralized.

Furthermore, these national cryptos are going to give governments even more control over people's money!

I think they are trying to make their own national digital currency and make it seem just like bitcoin, except it isn't since it will be centralized and controlled by the government. This is entirely pointless, but I think the whole idea is for the image, to make it seem like the government is up with tech and new ideas, when they really aren't.

Same reason why people try to make their own alt coin.  They want more control over the situation than the bitcoin would give them i guess.

Rephrase this to 'digital tokens' because that's what they'll be.

Bitcoin is fundamentally different from any currency any country or bank (not that a retail bank has created a standalone currency, er, EVER, not that that stops people on here spouting off about such possibilities) will ever create.

There will never, ever, ever be anything like Bitcoin that comes from the regular suspects. It goes against every single thing that turns them on. A lot of folks here really don't seem capable of comprehending this.

Are you trying to say that the government trying to make their own crypto currency so they can have more control of us?
Then there's no way they will be big as bitcoin does
One of the reason why some people choose bitcoin compared to fiat is because Bitcoin is completely anonymous and decentralized
Just my 2 cents ;D

This is true, the governments try to make some centralized cryptocurrency to control it and don't allow people to see the transaction details and so on, Bitcoin system don't allow them doing this, so they try to replace it with their own cryptocurrencies, but i also think this projects will fail because people love bitcoin as it's decentralized currency and offer the financial freedom for everyone

If a government  make a new crypto-currency that would fail like how cloned alt coins have failed. Other than digitizing, no ther than meaning for a country specific crypto-currency. Bitcoin is like gold will act as a medium across fiats as well as if there is any government's new crypto-currency.

Let them create their own cryptocurrency, it will be experiment for implement blockchain technology to governments ;D i think it will not be effect to bitcoin, even if it's open in market.

I think bitcoin will remain popular because bitcoin decentralized and are not bound by any country

Governments creating their own digital currency is no different than printing fiat bullshit.

I think from my observations that the best innovation will come from either Netherlands or Spain, both countries got tons of active posts on the forum.

However in terms of users, I think more like: Indonesia, India and Russia.

Thanks for the intervention. Can you give thoughts about the future of bitcoin if some or every country adapt as a their currency a digital coin based currency?

yes, is something like "lets change the toy to play with and let's continue with our scam..." i hope that this time people change his mind and start to understand what are they trying to do, again...

Thanks for your comment.

If the situation would be verified it will be not the people which will decide. There were be the Authorities of the country those who take and execute such kind of decision. And the people will be obligated to use this kind of currency because it will be the national currency in that country. The people will be paid in that currency, the merchants will use that currency etc. And if bitcoin will be banned their cannot use it more even if they will want to replace the national currency with the bitcoin.

What it will be with the future of bitcoin in such situation? What if something like that can be verified in every country or in the most of those? These are the questions that needed to be discussed.

Thanks for your thoughts.

In both the articles is told that they (the interested people) are studying the blockchain. If they will be able to clone it why do you think that they will be not able never to create a digital coin like bitcoin?

What is the difference between a "digital token" and a "digital coin" if the way they connected will be the clone of blockchain?

But even we will call those "digital tokens" what is the importance of the name that we can give to their product? This product will be their national currency. What it will be with bitcoin if this example expanded in all the world? And if every (or most) of those ban bitcoin to protect their new digital based currency?

Bitcoin is outside government control. Everything they have planned - is.

End of.

It doesn't matter what they come up with, what they call it, whether it uses a blockchain, whether it's irreversible, reversible, lives in a chip on your forehead or allows your dog to buy bones online, at heart it will still be debasable, corruptible, controlled, inflatable and it'll add the ability to confiscate your money, shut you down completely or impose negative interest rates.

It'll be infinitely worse than the current financial system with that inconvenient cash shit and hidden accounts in foreign countries that don't talk to each other in the same way an all digital currency would. They'd be able to tag transactions they don't like, totally prevent money arriving or departing or simply take it straight away from you.

Them integrating some of Bitcoin's features would make Bitcoin more relevant, desirable and needed than ever.

Why can't people comprehend this?

But please mister ,I like my currency devalued.

I cant imagine how my life would look like if I would not lose 99% of my purchasing power of my savings over 30 years.

Do you imagine how catastrophic would it be if people would not have to be debt slaves and instead buy their expenses with hard money....

Go away bitcoin, your black magic sorcery. I worship the printed money  :-\

I really think that what governments should be doing is working together to make BTC an acceptable alternative form of payment, do they not care about one's financial freedom?

Funnily enough, no.

I guess countries have more interest in blockchain technology than BTC. One country may eventually start a new cryptocurrency, making it legal tender, but that would only boost confidence in BTC, the original, because a national cryptocurrency would only be valueable within the borders of the nation which invented it.

They'll be about as much of a threat as Mintchip (http://www.coindesk.com/canadian-government-end-mintchip-digital-currency-program/) was.  We already use digital currencies supported by the authorities of every country, it's called having a bank account.  Whatever they end up creating will have literally no perceivable benefit to anyone beyond what we've already got today.  No system with an unlimited monetary supply, central points of failure, and inherent shortcomings with fungibility and censorship (which is exactly what they'll come up with) will look like it's worth anything compared to Bitcoin.  All they can do is create a pale and crippled imitation.  There's no contest.

I see to much rage in your post rather arguments.  ;) Are you sure that such thing don't obscures your reasoning? How do you know that their digital coin based currency will be "debasable, corruptible, controlled, inflatable" or "it will be infinitely worse than the current financial system"?

Maybe it will be true that they will "add the ability to confiscate your money, shut you down completely or impose negative interest rates." Maybe it will be true that "they'd be able to tag transactions they don't like, totally prevent money arriving or departing or simply take it straight away from you."

But if they (and the other countries like this country but with the same mentality about their new digital coin based currency) will ban bitcoin to protect this they "shit" digital coin based currency what will happen with the bitcoin?  If those countries are the most important of the world and there are every day more the others which will follow those (it is known that the other countries follow always the most developed ones)? If all those countries ban bitcoin what it will be with it? This is the main aim of this thread. Please give arguments in order that the simple people understand your idea and be with you.  ;)

Thanks for the comment.

Mintchip is not a digital coin and it is not conceived as a such kind of thing. According to the article given in your post "MintChip was not a digital currency akin to bitcoin, but rather a digital payment mechanism meant to function as an electronic cash that could be transferred between users."

While the idea given from the articles given in the main post suppose that the interested countries want to have a real digital coin and not a "digital payment mechanism meant to function as an electronic cash that could be transferred between users."

You pretend that nor the best scientist of USA (or England) and nor the best scientist of Russia will be able to understand and clone blockchain? Or to create a digital coin like or similar to bitcoin?

If they create the digital version of their fiat currency, it will fail too. It will be built on the same principle of a failing system. The people will have no choice in the matter, because these countries will force them with laws to use their version.

Bitcoin will be banned, because it will be seen as the rival currency and it will be outlawed. Governments have the power to outlaw any fiat or digital equivalent, if they perceive it as a threat to their national currency.

This is why most countries want to ban Bitcoin use as a currency. They want to protect the currency they can control.  

Thanks for the comment.

Clear words, full understanding (at least for me) of what you want to tell but not fully "correct"  :) with the main aim of this thread. What it will be with bitcoin if it will be banned (as you write in your post) from most of the countries (or the majority of those)? How and what it will be its future?

I never said they can't create something similar, just that they won't be able to make something on par with Bitcoin, let alone better than.  Their interest is in building something that they can control.  That single, unwavering goal is their immediate downfall because it sends them in a direction that leads to a sub-par service/product.  They will create something that doesn't have has a fixed supply so they can keep printing money out of thin air.  They will create something that has a central point of failure and collects mountains of personal information which will be leaked or hacked at some point.  They will create something that can block or freeze transactions.  For example, something that permits us to donate to wikileaks is clearly not in their interest, so they're not going to allow that.  All of these things and more become an immediate downside compared to Bitcoin because they won't surrender control.  I don't care what they're going to make or how dissimilar it might be to Mintchip, because it's still going to be inferior in every way, shape and form.  There's no contest.

Does the wolf care about the sheep that it eats? Not really.

The governments only purpose is to achieve total control over the population, and they are doing a very good job about that, you have to admit.

Everything clear what you want to tell. I want to know one last opinion from you. If those countries ban bitcoin to protect their national digital coin currency (and if this practice can be followed in time from most of the other countries; it is normal to be so because the other countries normally follow the countries named at the main post because those are the most developed and leaders in the world) what future can be for bitcoin?

It's a big "if", but if a large number of countries decided to ban Bitcoin, it would largely depend on what's happening in the economies of those countries.  If it's a strong economy and people feel secure in that system, it could potentially spell bad news for Bitcoin.  But the more likely scenario is that most nations continue with their current (stupid) trend of inflating the money supply in their hostile little race to the bottom and people become increasingly disillusioned with government controlled money and start looking for an alternative to protect their wealth.  If remaining within the confines of the law means you get wiped out financially, there's little incentive to obey.

The more the authorities prove themselves to be financially illiterate, the stronger the case for Bitcoin becomes.  The debt monster feeding charade won't last forever. 

First is not Government which have to do with the money but the Central Bank of the country or a similar Authority (which regulate and manage this regulation). But even if it will be Government the Authority which regulate and make the rules of the money you want to tell that in a normal and developed country there is no need to have at all control about the money?

I completely agree with you. Let me add that banksters and governments are a bunch of greedy idiots. They will not stop. They will realize that their digital tokens give them much more possibility of control than paper money as we know it at the moment. When they realize this, they will go all in and they will make people complete slaves. If ever, people will realize at this moment that their governments are there only to rip the skin off of their backs.

Thanks for your thoughts. I invite you (if you find interesting) to continue your participation in this thread making free interpretations about the opinion of the others (or even mine).

MikeyB thank for your comments.

Before asking something to you I want to tell that I don't see the world such "black" as you.  :) Even I live in a country which is not to much developed. Our level of corruption here is very high and our politicians (according to me and with few exclusions) are probably the most irresponsible and corrupted people in the world. But I think again that there is good that our money are regulated by our Central Bank and the control of money exist, is managed and controlled by the Central Bank and with other Governmental Agencies. Otherwise all the "black" money will destroy everything here.

Anyhow, I wanted to know from you the answer of the main aim of this thread. What it would be the future of bitcoin if the countries of the main post (and other ones which might follow those in the future) will adopt as a national currency a digital based coin currency and will ban bitcoin to protect their new digital based coin money?

The ultra-advanced, superior technology of the digital currency Bitcoin and it's Blockchain public ledger system are in danger of being co-opted.

Taking a quote from your post, a true bitcoiner will be able to differentiate between a real crypto and something which is not, so I don't think in any way these cryptos (whatever they decide to name it) controlled by a central banks will ever become a threat. If centralization means anything, it has to be the first priority on why we chose to move away from fiat going to cryptocurrencies.

Thanks for the comment Q7.

You think that, whatever will be their new invention, it wouldn't be a risk for the bitcoin. This could be true (according to you) even this new invention will be followed by most of the world countries and bitcoin will be banned from all those countries in order to protect their invention (which maybe is not at all similar to bitcoin but is a peer to peer technology product)?

You need to ask Cyprus people is it good when you government takes care of your money. More than half of their money gone. Also you might ask Greek people (the hard working Greek people that have worked over 40 years and woke up one day with half of their savings gone or heavily controlled by their government and unavailable to access to them).

Now your second question. I don't think these governments will ever ban Bitcoin even if they develop their own centralized tokens. Why? This is not how it's done in the real world. If you ban Bitcoin, then Bitcoin will become forbidden fruit and people will want it even more in my opinion. This will just give a sign to the world that we are doing the right thing. What they will do in my opinion is that they will try and beat us with their centralized solutions. And they will have an advantage in my opinion until their whole debt system doesn't fall apart, which is inevitable!

Not that I think a ban will ever happen, but who would want a form of money that can't be spent or accepted? Bitcoin isn't drugs. It's not fun or addictive or profitable regardless of legality. It serves a purpose. Banning it stifles that purpose and people will move on. They're not short of alternatives right now.  

Agreed. The real issue is trying to really fight the case for  Bitcoin being a serious alternative.

I don't think Bitcoin will be banned as well, in any country. I was just speaking figuratively, what if...!!! If they would ban Bitcoin, they could have as well banned Internet 20 years ago!

I don't want to deviate the aim of this thread so I will be very short about this theme. But I cannot stay without writing something about it because it is an clear case of corruption and cheating that merit some words.

I don't know the Cyprus case but I know very well the Greek case. You are in big wrong about the crisis in Greece. The money of the Greeks are all money have from Europe and not money of the Greeks. They have live for the years you mention not with their hard work but with the credits taken from the Europe. They cheat (giving false financial data) to enter in Eurozone only to have the possibility to have credits without limits and without conditions. And so it was. They entered in Eurozone and had money without end as credits. Their level of life was increased with those money. No one person in Europe (maybe even in the world) have the retirement at 57 years like the Greeks. No one have 14 or 15 monthly salaries in one year. No one church in Europe have such privileges and money that have the orthodox church from the Greek state. I can continue with to many privileges that the Greeks benefited with the money of the others. The only resource of Greece is tourism and with tourism no one can have such life. And at the end this is a long story. It is not the first time that Greeks are in such situation. During their story are other stories like this. Read here for more:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html)

And the shameful problem they have is that they don't want to give back the money to the owners. For this has voted more than 60% of those. This is the maximum. Then accepted (after the referendum) a plan much more severe than the previous one for which has voted to not pay. Why? Because were in wrong and no one forgive its money. Europe want its money given to them.

I can find other sources more detailed about the Greeks crisis and their habits but as I told in the beginning this thread has another aim. So I will not answer more about this problem here. You can learn more if you have the patience to do a search in my posts. Or create another thread yourself about this topic.

In essence Bitcoin was 'banned' already before it became more well accepted and adopted by others.

Makes more sense for governments to introduce their own alternatives to undermine Bitcoin.

Yes but mainstream people who are not tech savvy can't tell the difference between bitcoin a government issued cryptocurrency.

Well. For all you three I have a bad news. One of the countries about which is written in the main post has already banned bitcoin. This is Russia, which, without waiting for the creation of its bitruble has banned our coin. What are your comments about this news which is in opposite with your convictions?

For more not only Russia but even other 7 other countries has banned as well bitcoin. Those are: Bangladesh, Bolivia, Ecuador, Indonesia, Kyrgyzstan, Thailand and Vietnam. And its status is "restricted" in other three countries (on of them with the same importance as Russia). Those are China, Taiwan and Iceland. If every country will follow those (especially later and when they probably will or can have its national digital coin currency) what will happen with bitcoin? Give me your opinions.

There are signs that even China is prompted to regulate it. There is a thread in this section about this: For more: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1207161.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1207161.0)

For more about the legal status of bitcoin in some other countries (the countries where is allowed) everyone can read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country)

It is supposed that the other countries which are not in the list of above link ignore bitcoin. Are absolutely the majority of the world countries. Only other 31 country have and give data about it. In those country bitcoin is allowed and is regulated. This situation can give an idea in which points is the known (and the real "power") of bitcoin in all the world.

Thanks for your intervention DeepMix and Ashour.

Can you comment more about what it will be the future of bitcoin if it will be banned from most or the majority of the countries because of introduction (if it will be so) of their national digital coin currency? Naturally if you want or have something to write .  :)  

This is the main aim of this thread. It is written even in its title.