Bitcoin Forum

Philip Moustakis
Senior Attorney
Division of Enforcement
United States Securities & Exchange Commission
3 World Financial Center, Suite 400, New York, NY 10281-1022
(212) 336-0542

The there is a lot of FUD in "Got off the phone with the Guy from the S.E.C"  thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112438.220
DO NOT READ IT.  It is full of misinformation.  

This should be the thread to discuss how you can participate in the SEC investigation. Maybe Phil will even sign up and answer your questions (but that may be a conflict of interest for him).  Theymos, if he does please let him out of the newbee sections.

The links above and below contain a pdf from the SEC on google docs that contain the full text of your right to voluntarily supply information to an SEC civil investigation.  It a little long and daunting and can freak people out but I'll pull out the highlights below.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-33azoziRiZbTFXc0lxcV9SWHc (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-33azoziRiZbTFXc0lxcV9SWHc)


I also just got off the phone with Philip Moustakis.  Nice guy.  We chatted for about an hour. Unfortunately any info others have given me is not relevant to him as he needs to speak with defrauded investors.  Without witness willing to come forward to explain to the SEC the nature of their investments with Trendon Shavers they can't  make a case.  If they can not make a case  then Trendon Shavers stays on the beach in Mexico spending your precious bitcoin.

Here is the deal.  This is NOT a criminal investigation.  This is a civil action.  Philip is essentially on a fact finding mission.  At the end of this fact finding he has to present the FACTS to the Commissioners and they decided if there is enough evidence to make a case against Trendon Shavers.  If there is not enough evidence,  Trendon Shavors remains on the Beach in Mexico spending what remains of your Bitcoins.

AS PER US SECURITIES LAW: THE SEC WANTS TO KNOW IF TRENDON SHAVER MADE ANY MISREPRESENTATION OR MATERIAL OMISSION TO YOU, ON WHICH YOU RELIED TO MAKE AN INVESTMENT DECISION IN ANY BITCOIN SECURITIES OFFERING.  IF THIS IS THE CASE SECURITIES LAWS WERE VIOLATED AND THEY MAY BE ABLE TO PURSUE PROSECUTION.  

HOWEVER IF YOU WERE A PPT AND YOU ALSO MISREPRESENTED OR OMITTED RELEVANT INFO ON WHICH YOUR INVESTORS RELIED TO MAKE INVESTMENT DECISIONS THEN YOU ALSO VIOLATED SECURITIES LAW.   YOU'RE FUCKED.  GAME OVER.  TRENDON WINS.  

So while PPT guys may be out if they knew of trendon's fraud,  EVERY regular investor should get on the phone on Tuesday and call Phil  at  (212) 336-0542 and talk to him or set up an interview if you are in NY.  While there are many many victims, if no one comes forward they can not prosecute and Trendon walks.

[EDIT]
There is also the possibly that under appropriate circumstances, the SEC can offer a witness a proffer agreement, and that there are certain cooperation tools at these disposal.  You should discuss exactly what that means with Phil if you don't already know.
[/EDIT]

Call Phil  and talk to him.  (212) 336-0542


Phil is not going to answer your questions about the investigation.  Any information about the investigation is not publicly available.  Any evidence you provide will also NOT be made publicly available, however it will be shared internally and with appropriate authorities.  

If you decided to get involved know that you are being interviewed VOLUNTARILY.   You can terminate the interview at any time.  You can refuse to answer any question at any time.  (It is not an interrogation). You have to state what country you are from as US involvement with witness from to foreign jurisdictions  may have to be approved or handled in a certain way.  You have to to tell the SEC who you are and how to get in touch with you. If the information in the interview is helpful and a civil action is brought against Trendon you may have to participate in civil action.  

The SEC has NO criminal authority.  No one is going to arrest you, however they can refer matters so state or local authorities.

You DO NOT want to give false statements.

Again the gritty details on in this 5 page pdf file:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-33azoziRiZbTFXc0lxcV9SWHc (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-33azoziRiZbTFXc0lxcV9SWHc)

If you DO NOT take action Trendon Shaver fraud continues and he wins. It 's as simple as that.  

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.  

**** I am not a lawyer.  this is my recollection of my telephone conversation with Phllip Moustakis. I will also be emailing this text to Phillip to to correct any factual errors or inaccuracies.

Interesting.

Behind outside the US, is that phone number the only option to communicate with him?

email him.  He has a blackberry.

I can't seem to find an email anywhere.

*EDIT*

Ok, I found this email:
moustakisp@sec.gov

It seems legit  ;D

MOUSTAKISP@sec.gov

When I talked to him it was 100%, on my own accord and he asked me if I was willing to speak. I have nothing to hide so, I answered all his questions. He may not have a forum account but his interns do read this forum do not get that wrong. He was asking me information about stuff you would only know if you read it here, I have a feeling as he talked to more people the question became more and more direct to what he wanted to know. But overall he is a very nice man, and I would urge you to talk to him.

I'm out of the USA but I'm willing to talk.

Also, the forum has no problem with turning over any/all correspondence Pirate has made. All they have to do is ask theymos. His contact information is listed at theymos.com

Actually, what you wrote up there is one of the best descriptions of what the SEC does. It's hard to explain to people that have never looked into it.

If you are a pirate investor you should follow it to the letter.

Please don't think you are losing anything by giving up your anonymity. I know many people in this community see anonymity as being the most precious resource, but I promise its not worth that much in this context.

Also, don't consider this to be "snitching." This is not the police as BCB said.


I hope I have not contributed to this misinformation.

I like to comment and speculate on things that are happening because it is entertaining. I have two motivations for sharing my opinion.

1) I do not like to see people be burdened by a investigation/trial and hope people will make wise decisions to do the right thing. It is an excruciating process.

2) Even worse is the effect of a fraudulent schemes on victims; I have seen the absolute worst here. I hope it never happens to you.

I think you got the thread link wrong. Shouldn't it be https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112438.0 ?

The way it is now, it lands on page 9.

Really glad to see people doing something about this crook. I hope he ends up in federal prison.

Thank you a lot for your efforts, BCB et al!

I very much like to help out to put justice to Trendon!

I know there seems to be no attorneys with definite answers in here, still I have a few concerns and questions, curious what you guys think on that:

- Is info from non-US based members/participants/victims helpful?

- Is info which does only involve PPT operations helpful? (Imagine someone bought/swapped a bitcoinmax account, after default, for example)

- Anonymity: Well.. Some people will prefer to not have their name tied to involvements with Bitcoin. What do you people think is the probability that the SEC will publish, forward, leak that info to, lets say, the IRS (thats the guys with the taxes, right?)

*following this closely*

Ente

Sing like a bird.  :)

Any info regarding your investment in any business related to Trendon Shavers and bitcoin securities would be helpful.

What country are you from?  The SEC may be bound by certain statutes when dealing from non US witnesses. While this is a civil, securities related investigation, the SEC could refer cases to other authorities.   I'm am not a lawyer but unless you cashed out of your investment before the default at a profit you may be subject to taxes and/or a clawback.  However most guys lost money. So wouldn't that be a write off as a loss on you taxes?  Consult you local taxe attorney.

Finally. Please email Mr. Moustakis. While he can not predict the outcome of his investigation and any civil action that may result, he can advise you of your rights under US law.

Nah, I guarantee not a living soul will want to listen to me singing.
And if they do they'll be sorry.  :D

BCB, Portugal.

This is rather exiting... As much as I think this entire thing is going to end badly for more than just Trendon....

This statement bothered me somewhat...  Why not be involved with bitcoin?  is bitcoin a bad thing?

The only reason someone would not want to be associated with bitcoin is if they were using it for illegal purposes.

I had a fairly significant amount of bitcoins in btcst.  I do not hide the fact that i use, mine, spend bitcoins.  I claim all mining profits on my taxes.  Anyone who is above board will be OK being associated with btc.

Consider that the PPT operators are not protected for they are in fact co-conspirators with Trendon in this matter. Anyone who operated a PPT was as guilty in collecting funds, and MAKING CRIMINAL MISREPRESENTATIONS, as Trendon was. They were the collection points for this scam. I'm certain the net cast in this investigation will include the lackeys in this criminal enterprise, especially any who happen to be US citizens, even if they are currently living outside the US.

And this is not snitching, unless you are a member of the criminal gang behind this.

I do not think all PPTs will have a problem.  Most of them did not collect any new funds.

jjiimm

Thanks for this.  This is very true. I too use, buy and sell with bitcoin.  I keep record of fiat that come out of my bank and is converted to BTC and declare any profit or loss on this activity.   Only bitcoiners who CONSPIRED with BCTST to defraud investors are liable.  However not declaring a profit or loss from any business could be a tax liability.  But if you were a NET loser in BCTST is a write off and you have nothing to worry about.

LoupGaroux

Unless you are a tax/securities attorney or specialist, please do not troll this thread.
We don't need anymore FUD then is already spread else where on these boards.

Request for info
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120880.new#new

Very interesting, I will be watching this.

Why would you want to limit the discussion to "tax/securities attorneys or specialists" when the conversation might gain something with input from someone who has already been interviewed several times over the past couple of months? It's not FUD if it is factual, and I can categorically state that at least two PPT's are a definite focus of this investigation beyond Trendon.

I can also confirm that this investigation is willing to use subpoena powers to compel "conversations" as required.

That's only causes fear if you are a PPT and you sent ANYTHING through to pirate, in which case you might want to be looking to reimburse real fast.

If it is factual then I apologize.  Your ignore button is just very very orange.

Thanks.

Apology accepted. Like the little boy who proclaimed the Emperor as walking down the street naked, some people just hate to see the truth. So I get ignored a lot. Unfortunately for my dramatic shade of orange, a lot of them then get banned and I am stuck with the color.

+10

This is a good point. I wonder if it were possible to have users that ignore someone and then get banned have their ignore count the other way, retroactively. You and me would be glowing anti-orange in short order.

I always wondered why the color... now I know.

or at least not count the ignores of banned people against you...

-- Smoov

ah, right, now I see! The orange color is, in fact, a huge conspiracy!
lol

I find it correlating very well for me. By now I see a lot less orange around, and have reduced my facepalming a lot accordingly.

Ente

IT'S A PONZI!!!

...

sorry... force of habit...

-- Smoov

This has probably been discussed before:

I put money in a PPT (BitcoinMax), so not directly with pirate aka Trendon S.

Is the SEC only interested in talking to people that have directly invested with pirate or also people that have invested with PPT operators?

It seems to me the bulk of the investors have gone through ppt's (at least the bulk of the money). And I cant be sure my ppt operator actually transfered the btc to pirate or ran their own hyip, using the pirate name as some sort of 'seal of recommendation'

So any info I can give the sec is circumstancial at best....

I've been hesitating to post about this because what you are stating is a very real concern from many of the member who are posting.  Let me compose something and I'll post here.

EDIT:

DutchBrat, I will say that if you were an investor and you were defrauded the any information you give is perfectly valid.  The only issue may be your nationality, and only the SEC can tell you how they can take and use information you provide.


Also this is a Securities investigation.  What information, posting, prospectus or email with information about the investment did you RELY on to make your investment.  This is the crux of the investigation.

Currently, I can not name a single PPT, but if I wanted to know for sure who there were, I do know how to search for them. I wouldn't mind if there was a place where all the know PPTs are listed for posterity.

~Bruno K~

This made me lol   :D

Here is a start:  http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/payb.tc

There is a crowed sourced PPT list here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120880.0


I'll update the second post

Does that mean *noone* gave information to Philip Moustakis?
After all the drama, cries and threads in this forum, noone simply passed on some info so Philip Moustakis could do the dirty work for us and go after Trendon?
That's a shame! If we aren't even capable of that, I wouldn't be afraid of anything as Trendon. He may just as well post his phonenumber, address and a detailed confession, the worst that would happen to him would be pizza and swear calls?!?

Philip Moustakis is on our side, don't forget that please!

Come on, people!
This is the chance to get something rolling against Trendon!
In case we screw up with this simple task, we can kiss all pirated coins goodbye, and prepare for a flood of scams of biblical proportions!

Ente

The investigation is non-public so there is no way to be certain. Some members has posted that they were interviewed. But I'm afraid many more gave info anonymously which can not be used bring charges. And many more victims refuse to come forward for fear of exposing themselves to additional, unknown legal exposure and there is nothing anyone else can do about it. So game (has been) over, Trendon Shavors (has already) won. 

I agree, I hate to state it this way and it sounds really bad but
"Someone who is raped and never comes forward lets the rapist go free, the one who stands up and fights can stop another rape from happening." Will you let another pirate rape our community? ask yourself that do you want bitcoin to stay a theif's market? or do you want it to change?

Pirate rape is a known evil.

(US) Government precedent is a very unknown evil and at this time we don't know if the Govt/SEC is an honest cop who will help or, through no fault or intention of his own, will end up being the original rapist buddies and have a second go at us and we would have been better to learn our lesson and lick our wounds.

This. Too many bad experiences with government. I wouldn't trust any government agency any more than I trusted pirate.

The question, of course, is for every single "investor": Lost enough to take the risk to trust the SEC/GOV/Man?
People who lost marginal or no sums at all can hardly decide that for the others..
So, again, two evils are to be weighted against each other.

Ente

Which is why each and every one of us needs to look at our own belief structure and decide how the cost/benefit equation works for us personally. For some, working with the SEC and other investigators to pursue "traditional" justice will be the right call. Others might shy away from this because they don't trust the "traditional" methods to treat them right, or to stay out of a wider investigation that might net things as-yet unthought of to review. Yet others still might choose to find Trendon, and take their retribution out of him physically, or the threat of doing so out of his family unless he is willing to ransom their lives with his stolen gains.

And some may even go through different versions of this cycle to decide what is the right way for them personally. There is no universal truth on how to best prosecute a scumbag like pirate. Personally I think that having the SEC mess up his life for the next couple of years with an investigation is a damn good start, assuming they have frozen all of his assets and taken the sorts of precautionary moves that they and their wicked step-sisters at the IRS are known for. But the whole "hold a gun to his head until he decides to find honor" has a certain appeal too.

No need to go through the SEC for this one. By the way did pirateat40 withhold taxes on the interest payments he paid to non US persons? I suspect the IRS will not consider the fact that these payments were made in Bitcoin to be a valid reason to not withhold taxes. 

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F)

We know that many people outside the bitcoin community are following these Trendon Shaver threads.  Thank you for you assistance so far.

We have another request.

Trendon Shavers my have been in the past or currently using assumed names or an alias.  If you have seen or know this guy and know him by a name other then Trendon Shavors we'd like to hear from you.

http://trendonshavers.com/

Is anyone aware of other user names (suspected or confirmed) that Trendon Shavers used on this board besides pirateat40?

I think I saw the name Don Shrents somewhere.

Pretty sure that Don Shrents was a bitlane alt.

Where's my buddy, Loup. He hasn't been active since the 4th unless he's in cloak mode.

~Bruno K~

I was wondering that myself.  A while back he indicated that he had or had knowledge of interactions with the SEC.  Then he disappears.   Everyone is running scared.  Hmmmm.....

Bump...for the sake of there really not being any new information since November about pirateat40?

If the SEC and the FED can not prosecute executives at HSBC, Goldman, Bear, Lehman and MF Global etc. for fraud then there is no way they are bringing in a piker like Trendon Shavers for scamming with his Internet play money. The only hope is income tax fraud cause no way the Shavers' can afford those vehicles and that home on Ashley's Six Flags income.

You tragically misunderstand how the United States Just-Us system works.

any updates on this ? i mailed the sec dude last year in december... havent heard anything back from him appart from this

:
Thank you for reaching out to us.  Before we can speak, I have to make sure there are no legal hurdles on my end.  (There are different rules for each country.)  The individuals with whom I need to consult are on vacation this week, but I am sure I will be in touch shortly after the new year.
 
I hope the holiday season is finding you well.

Philip Moustakis ∙ Senior Attorney ∙ Division of Enforcement ∙ United States Securities & Exchange Commission ∙ 3 World Financial Center, Suite 400, New York, NY 10281-1022 ∙ (212) 336-0542 ∙ moustakisp@sec.gov

This has been partially resolved as of July this year.
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2013/comp-pr2013-132.pdf
http://www.sec.gov/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583#.UowNP8SsiG4

No need to necro a thread when a quick Google search will do. ;)