Bitcoin Forum

I am not a professional at this, can anyone shed some light?

I am currently on PPS, was wondering if i switch over to P2POOL, would I gain more?

Does anyone have any professional advice?

Thank you

Frankly at 2ph I would use f2pool and see my results. They give a good amount of nmc coins to help pay for the fees they charge.

To clarify they pay at .96 and the NMC they give is about 1.2 percent.

This is .972  all the time.

It is day in and day out.

Do it for a week and clock what you get back.

Then do p2pool for a week and see how you do.

P2pool should do a little better but is subject to variance.

I think the OP may have made an error.  It seems highly unlikely that someone who is not a professional would have over 2 PH/s of gear.  Do you mean 2 TH/s?  This would make more sense and could potentially change the answer to your question.

I literally have 2.311 PH/S, not 2.311TH/S

I have 500 S7 with overcloaked turned on.

I added more to my answer.

This  is a choice you can make.

If I were you I would bounce back and forth between the two on a weekly basis.

It would help flatten variance.

Right, I understand that part. I was just curious if anyone has any experience with around similar hashrate doing PPS or PPLNS. I am getting steady bitcoins/day with PPS, but you know.. ppl get greedy :D

Not a professional?  That's a lot of hardware to be a hobbyist.

It's really not that hard to throw in money to purchase machines, rent a factory in China, get electricians in, and set up static ip and then a public PPS pool.

I am not here to ask people to believe that I have this hashrate.

Just looking for ideas and advice before I switch over.

So as a matter of interest 2.311PH/S from 500 S7 is 4.622TH Per S7.

So as this would equate to running them at 575MHz, what are you overcloaking at?

Rich

Batch 1 that was delivered few days ago are actually at 4.45TH, not 4.86TH.

http://i62.tinypic.com/23kc55w.jpg

That's very interesting. I had heard that Miners were being delivered at 4.66TH but had not realised they had gone as low as 4.45TH (550MHz). Was this a surprise to you or were you informed before delivery?

Rich

I was informed before the delivery and was refunded 900 RMB per machine.

I ordered 300 more from Batch 2 with 4.66TH that will be delivered on the 22nd.

P.S. can we stay on topic?

I have a good friend that would be willing to set a place up in Washington state.  Put in 500k to a million.

He is a retired banker. He knows me for 23 years.

If I were single I would do  it for him. He knowledge of bitcoin and asics is just about zero.

Maybe op is like that has money to invest and no place to put it.

World wide 5% interest  in a government bond or a bank is no longer easy to find.  So a guy with some money to invest could look at btc to set up as an alternative.

At op  I think someone is wrong if all your gear is doing 4,450 gh. at freq 600 or freq 606, 612.

tell them to do freq 587. see this screen shot:

I get 4743 at freq 587  with almost 0 errors and since you are looking to max profit with best pool  You need to look at maxing your profit with best freq.

do me a favor set 20 or 30 to freq 587 and compare with your others.



https://i.imgur.com/X5ViaMN.png

These are my stats before overcloak.

I will get my guys to set the freq tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. It's currently at 550.

Sorry but it's not often that someone new pops up with 500 S7.  :)

I would consider carrying out 5 Simultaneous experiments each with 100 S7 on different Pools / payment systems. For PPS you will get an instant comparison, however for PPLNS you are going have to wait for the tail to work through when you stop mining plus you are also may just end up measuring Pool Luck. Bottom line is that in the long run there is not much to choose relative to setting them up for maximum reliable Hash Rate, and keeping them running 24/7.

Rich

I understand I just signed up, and I don't blame anyone who doesn't believe me. Doesn't matter to me anyways because that's not the message I am trying to deliver.

I have read some articles on PPLNS that if you are running these machines 24/7 you're more likely to earn more than PPS as PPS fees overpowers PPLNS. I am not sure if this is true statement or not, but like I said in the beginning, it's rather more risky for me to switch it all over at once, than hear opinions from people who have actually experimented it.

I will perhaps turn 100 of them to PPLNS and compare earnings to 100 of the PPS.

Thanks.

The math is actually very simple.  You can find a PPLNS pool with 0 fees rather easily.  On average you should earn 100% mining profits, what more could you ask for?  PPS will have a fee involved, and although you will earn the same amount daily, expect 95 to 96% mining profits due to the fee.  So your statistically better to PPLNS mode, but as you said people are greedy, but more than that, they are also irrational.

Throwing nmc profits into the mix with fees on different pools changes this a little bit as philipma mentioned earlier.  But to keep on topic, that is the basic math between PPLNS and PPS.

I really like PPS myself as I can count on a solid number and know what I'm getting.  If you like a little more in return PPLNS is best as a lot do at 0 percent, only thing is some can very a great amount per day. 

So a lot really depends on pool.  But my vote is PPS most of time.  Everyonce in a while I do PPLNS, but I like that constant amount.

Just as an FYI, I didn't say that I didn't believe you, I'm somewhat jealous...  LOL...  I was just surprised by the amount of hardware you have invested in and asking here for best options.  Like someone else said earlier, it's not the standard to have a "big player" pop up and ask questions.  That said, I wish you luck.  I would probably split my hashing power between different pools to try and maximize profit.

I would find it surprising if you have 2.31PH and asking these question's.  With this amount if you don't know this I would guess you have a staff for that amount as it is a lot of miners.   To be new and go to 2.31 PH is pretty much unheard of.  

And we all could be wrong.   Just to spend the money for 2.31 PH and not have an absolute grasp would be surprising.  Math does not make complete sense you mention 200 units hashing  that is 11.5 TH per machine, and I cannot think of a machine running at that currently.

Use www.kano.is .

P2Pool always pays best in the end, but variance is a factor. As long as you understand that, I think p2pool would be best for you. If you want a traditional pool, my vote goes to kano and then slush.

+1!

Another idea is to use few pools so you have a more constant income and you are not the victim of bad luck of one pool

Yes, use kano.is.  Make me some money.

Yeah, that's not a bad idea.

770TH/s to p2pool
770TH/s to kano.is
770TH/s to slush

..something something eggs in a basket...

Plus you'll get a clear idea of who pays best over time. I'd suggest using 3 proxy setups, 1 per pool, to make controlling your miners easier.

I am taking a stab at p2pool today, might move about 1/4 machines to it to test its mining power.

And for the record, notlist3d, I have 4 staffs who does the maintenance.

I started mining 6 days ago, it was originally introduced by a friend, but he is not super experienced himself nor have 2PH + of mining power. I am using a public chinese PPS pool, and it's doing alright with about 6+ Month ROI. I have ordered another 300 S7 that will be delivered tomorrow for more stress testing of PPS/PPNLS.

And I never mentioned anything about 11TH + Rate, I mentioned that I have 500 S7 Miners from Batch 1 with hashrate of 4.45TH/s per machine, and with overcloaked I get around 2.31-2.33 PH/s average.

I do apologize coming in here and ask stupid questions like this, I guess it's all about trial and error now.

Thanks guys.

A good choice!  ;)

It's always preferable to use your own p2pool node with another p2pool node as backup/failover. If you need a hand or have any questions with settings etc, pop over to the p2pool thread - we're a helpful bunch!  ;D

Always feel free to ask me via pm.


Good luck!

Go big or go home.

very nice.

one last thing  read my thread on the s-7 controller

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173573.0



with all the gear you have  some controllers will fail.

these allow linking 3 s-7's together

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173573.msg12359304#msg12359304


in your case you have 500 controllers running.


linking the s-7's together   is well worth looking into.

  333 controllers turned off.

save you at least 3 to 5 kwatts

save you a shit ton of ethernet switches

make your cat 5 wiring much more simple.

I figure you should contact J4bberwock and order a lot of the loner cables from him.

I also figure I just saved you a few thousand dollars with this idea.

see photos in the thread on hook up



tips are welcome


1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

Thanks for this link, just what I need for mine - if they ever arrive...... :P

Hell the op could buy three hundred cables this would free one hundred controllers .  He would save on space sine the machines would be link in sets of two or three machines his choice .

It allows many spare parts for him

He could even sell a few controllers to the guy that has one dead s-7 due to a dead controller.

I had two s-7 units ran them one one controller.

I shipped 1 s-7 to a friend and ordered a second s-7 just so I can have a spare controller.

What nobody is telling you and very few know is that you are in fact losing money due to fees and variance if you mine on any pool, even p2pool, with your more than 2ph/s. You need to run your very own node (not a p2pool one, an actual node), then you will have no fees, much lower rejected shares and little latency.

If you want you can hire me to set node and take care of your many machines, having one or two machines is fine to leave all of them online and barely pay attention to them but having hundreds you will have tons of work with wiring, electricity, internet, cleaning, opening up machines, infrastructure, node, profitability etc.
PM me if interested

Actually, I did already tell him that:


There are no fees with p2pool. They are decided by the node owner - & I doubt he/she will want to charge himself  ;) It's also very easy to set up a p2pool node, no special skills are required & there are many p2pool miners who will help do this for free.

Except even running your own p2pool node will have issues with rejected/orphaned shares.  Running your own full node and solo mining at that speed is much better than p2pool.

If I had that kind of hash rate, I'd be tempted to solo mine also  ;) He was asking about p2pool though, so I tried to answer.

It would be nice to have that extra hash on p2pool as well of course - all helps towards decentralizing & taking the big, empty block producing Chinese pools out of the equation  :)

OP, as much as I'd love to have that extra hash rate on p2pool, if I had that kind of setup, I would almost certainly spend the time to setup my own pool and mine to it as eleuthria (who certainly knows a thing or two about running pools) mentioned.  Of course, that also runs the risk of poor connections to the network and orphaned blocks, so considerably higher risk (losing the full block vs losing a few shares on p2pool).

Maybe see if -ck would be willing to work on something with you.  He might know a thing or two about mining and pools... :P

EDIT: I actually just saw -ck's reply above to use www.kano.is.

So let me get back to the basics of your original question.  PPS does not suffer the effects of variance.  You get paid for every share you submit.  The value of each share is calculated as the block reward divided by the network difficulty.  The big PPS pools (f2pool, AntPool) charge you a fee for PPS mining, 4% and 2.5% respectively.  Now, f2pool does give you alt coins (NMC, HUC, etc) to help offset the fee, so at the end of the day you probably end up making about 98% of expected earnings after everything is factored in.

PPLNS pools (like p2pool, www.kano.is, antpool) are very affected by luck and the luck swings can lead you to making considerably more or considerably less coin than expectations.  I actually have a very long running thread (which I need to update with the last month's data... will hopefully get to that tonight or tomorrow) showing actual earnings of an S3 on p2pool since about Christmas of last year.  You can clearly see from the graphs that there are ups and downs, but overall I have made more BTC than expected payouts for that hash rate.  If you go through the thread you can see there were weeks where p2pool found no or very few blocks and others where p2pool found more blocks than expected.  You can also see the effects of luck.  There was one week where even though p2pool had better luck than expected, I actually made less than expected because of how many shares I had on the chain when the blocks were found.  Anyway, if you want to take a look, that thread is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=891298.0.

On a more personal note, I don't support the behavior of either f2pool or AntPool.  They both perform SPV mining, have caused forks in the chain previously, and run shoddy software that produces empty blocks.

useless (to use backup pool).
p2pool have 284 peers and ... so 284 servers with normal 8 connexions for rebondance of the sharechain.

you can not have offline (or delay) statut with p2pool, it's all.

I gave the easiest answer, but here is a little more detail.

If you want good payouts, use kano.is as your extra hashrate will help smooth out the block solves, but it still won't be guaranteed daily payouts, though it will average to about that.
If you are happy to wear the variance for a bit more fluctuation through solo mining, use solo.ckpool.org or set up your own solo pool (I'd recommend against this unless you know what you're doing since there is very little chance you'll be able to optimise it as well as an experienced pool operator.)
If you want to use p2pool, you can, but there's a catch - with that many miners you'd need a very good setup to get good performance from it as p2pool's code doesn't scale to that many miners and it will be very inefficient. I've helped one or two people set up a ckpool based proxy in front of an optimised p2pool to make it scale, but at a cost. I charge for doing customised code for people. You can PM me if you're interested. The people I did this for in the long run seemed to find it easier to just work on a pool rather than have to maintain their own mining node like this.

Hi CK, may I ask what type of farming method is ckpool?

I would much rather setup personal mining pool than using a public one, I moved a couple of S7's to my own p2pool yesterday, the results are ehhhh, and havent received one payout. I get two payouts/day with my current public PPS pool.

We can sit and argue the best pool all day long.

for a 500 soon to be 700 s-7 miner with all the gear in China

his money to be made or saved is in optimizing his setup.

1 s-7 controller runs 3 s-7's   by getting his longer cables from France as I linked before   he could take hundreds of controllers off line.

I simply ask would you want 700 controllers wired or 233?

or would you want 500 controllers wired or 167?

the controllers are worth money he has an opportunity to sell them or keep them as spare parts.

the longer  cables are cheap.  but  to get back to his question of best pool his gear is in china his net connection to f2pool  may be far more reliable then any other connection.

@ op ckpool is a solo mining pool with very low fees. you could solo mine at it and collect a block about every 30 hours with normal luck.

variance would mean long droughts maybe as long as 7 to 8 days  in your case.  it would also mean quick blocks.  I made 2 in under 3 hours with 500th on ck's pool

Hi Phillip,

Appreciate your advice, but I have all up and running for a few days now, I rather not mess with it even if it saves me a bit.

Okay, I have taken everyones advice into consideration about trying out different ones to test what I get.

I am now currently taking a stab at p2pool with a portion of my machines, then I will try something next.

Thanks guys.

Are mining on your own p2pool node - or using a public node? If so, what one?  ;)

Own.

Nice one  :)

Is it public? I'd like to check it out - might even throw some at it myself  ;)

Why would you do that? With the number of miners he has it will likely be an overloaded node already. p2pool doesn't scale to that many miners.

Just to see how my miners perform with it, purely for curiosity. I've no idea where the node is located though.....for latency reasons I mean. I'm always pointing a few miners at different nodes for comparison, I find it very interesting, and educating (I like to learn).

do yourself a favor and order the longer wires.  read this below


 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1216606.0

even if you do not use the wires or set up all over.

having the wires on hand will allow you to get a dead machine working.

I have 6 wires on hand.

Even if you order 30 wires for 30 usd it gives you the chance to get a dead machine back up rather then wait for a spare part.

I know this is a nuts and bolts issue like tweaking old carbs on 1950's cars.

but to have 0 cables and 0 BB's or controllers for spares when you run 500 machines is asking for a problem.

the cables in a box are piece of mind.

have fun and good luck mining.  Maybe you can find a pool that works a little better then 97.2 percent

Just another bit of food for thought.  Bitmain has historically not played nicely with p2pool using their default firmware/drivers.  They have their own lousy fork of cgminer, and refuse to incorporate work that both -ck and kano have done to improve it.  Especially in regards to p2pool, Bitmain's default driver will not submit stale shares.  Furthermore, Bitmain hardware typically loses 10% or more hash rate on p2pool - again because of their lousy coding.

And in case that needed more explanation - it means on rare occasions throwing away a whole valid BTC block ... ... ... ...

PPS takes a huge amount of fee as it pays you before a block is mined, eliminating the bad luck factor. P2Pool is a distributed pool which allows users to run their node but the hashrate is low and offer lacks features and stability. PPLNS is undoubtedly the best choice as it has low fees and many pools support it.

Regarding this, has anyone tried installing the S5 cgminer binary into an S7? A bit daring, I know.......