Bitcoin Forum

Ministry of Finance is cracking down on cryptocurrencies in general, and this new proposal could just be the beginning of things to come


http://bitcoinist.net/russia-proposes-jail-sentence-bitcoin-activities/

Yea.. Few years ago before bitcoin the criminals was using the RUR so please ban it too!

Owning or mining need to be punished!.... Great! Someone give them a lollipopS so we cannot hear their stupid ideas anymore!

Great, after the whole EU zone seemed to accept and loosen the screws of regulation on bitcoin, Russia wants to tighten its grip on bitcoin. :/

I thought it is only targeting bitcoin exchanges services in Russia? Is owning bitcoin also considered illegal in Russia? How to prove that you own bitcoin?

this is absurd. The Russian government is really trying to stifle the development of this industry in the country. They are only going to realize the stupid mistake they are making when it's too late. Digital currency and the blockchain tech is going mainstream, so if they turn their backs at it now, they will stay far behind in the long run.

I don't see this getting through... What would be the difference of trading in Bitcoin, Rubles, Dollars, Euros etc that would make a Bitcoin sale illegal? Might as well deem all currencies illegal...

Russia has historically never fared too badly from sidestepping "the mainstream" though.

There is a conflict between two state bodies with differing views on Bitcoin in Russia. I think it's the Ministry of Finance that wants to outlaw it and the state bank that wants to go easy on it, though I'm not certain I got the institutions correct. It reminds me of China, but more extreme. First they say it's banned and you'll get fined for it, then they say it's unbanned, then it's banned again and you'll get jail for it.

It seems certain parts of the Russian government want to kill it while other parts seem open to it.


That is not an endorsement by Putin by any means but I don't think jail time isn't the final chapter in Russia.

>Should this proposal become law in Russia, it would affect all aspects of Bitcoin in the country.
>Regardless of whether someone owns, mines, or trades Bitcoin, every single one of the
>scenarios would be punishable by law in the form of a jail sentence

- the article linked in the OP

Net result? Increased interest in crypto! People want what they cant have! Plus they truly NEED it. More free promotion. Thank you Russia!

Just like china said they'd ban it. These governments will eventually realize that censorship will become quite difficult in it's traditional sense with the emergence of internet.

Putin is an idiot. While he bans it, more and more money from his country keeps going into Bitcoin

http://coin.dance/charts/image/RUB.png

The revolution will not be televised, in fact it will be banned, with completely opposite results as expected by those morons trying to censorship technological progress.

How are they going to even go about catching people with bitcoins? Searching flash drives? sniffing packets?

p2p money make people independent,Russiawants to have full control on people,Learn what is dictatorship,it is just one of example,look Syria war,you can expect more from Russia now

It is literally impossible to jail everyone who owns Bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions don't give locations and information about the owner. Even if they ban all Bitcoin related sites and IP, people would find another way to by pass it (e.g. through tor). Banning businesses is a whole different story. It could at most hinder the acceptance there.

What if people decided to transact using pebbles.  Would that be enough to get you imprisoned?

These scare tactics is all they can do.  They can't stop Bitcoin.

But what if say, an underground exchange who holds personal information from a buyer would get noticed by the government and they hand out credentials? That could help in the arrest of the bitcoin users too.

Actually, I welcome this development in Russia as it might be a great experiment for the world to see.  Russia is a place that is mighty close to a seriously authoritarian country, and it would be of great interest to see if the Oppression Apparatus of Russia can squash the individuals seeking the freedom to exchange currencies as they wish...

I would like to know WHAT Russia would be banning, and how they would go about it.

Same comments about China and Venezuela.  Interesting experiments worth keeping an eye on.

All the dictatorship regimes are afraid of everything which is associated with freedom. I strongly believe that they will not succeed in banning freedom though. The times has changed. 

It's just a proposal right now and it might/not go through but if it does then it will surely get difficult for Russians to buy/sell Bitcoins freely unless of-course everyone decides to do cash trades, which is not easy as it is difficult to find cash traders but if they trade using their bank accounts or other govt. controlled payment instruments then they'd get caught.

It s got nothing to do with illegal activities. It s got everything to do with Russian trying to destroy everything they cannot control directly. Even Chinese recognized benefits of BTC, do you really think Russia can stop it?

Haha, of course she can't.  :) Freedom can't be stopped in the internet age fortunately. Some may try to though, but they will never succeed.

Who gives a flying f**k about Russia? Russia and another few countries that have ideas like this, we shouldn't even worry about! There are 185 more countries in the world that have much more positive opinion about Bitcoin. We should concentrate on them.

I mean look at whole EU, even China that has shown signs of Bitcoin acceptance lately. We should leave Russians to live in their corrupt, Putin regime. I don't care!!

As I said a few times banning will not help. Sooner or later they will have to deal with it in one way or the other.Because if they don't they will get left behind.Time is running and world is changing.This is the nature of evolution.And while the public will get criminalized using Bitcoin the political and financial Elite of the country will be the ones hoarding it on the quiete.

Russia's stance on bitcoin swings from extremes faster we can follow. First, there was a complete bitcoin ban in 2014. Then it was passing a bill to regulate bitcoin in early 2015. In June, sources quote that Russian Central Bank will welcome bitcoin and now "Jail Sentence for Bitcoin Activities"? I believe Russia just want to go against the mainstream after EU rules bitcoin is a currency.

Mostly this. They are constantly changing the way they see Bitcoin and I don't even take this "Jail proposal for Bitcoin usage" serious. Next year we'll see them change it into something else. And the year after that we'll probably see them welcome Bitcoin with open arms again  :D

I'm not sure how they are going to implement the control measures and the more they overdo it, people will even crave more and treasure cryptocurrencies. I don't understand why it reaches up to that level for them to make that decision. Obviously they see it as a threat.

It's Russia lol.  Almost like NK if you don't shit the proper way it's jail for life.

Well it wouldn't stop Bitcoin from growing, look at the adoption graphs. An underground culture of Bitcoin would start happening. Look at the drug underground culture it's huge. So huge numbers can happen outside of law. Of course ideally I would like to see it accepted at mainstream level, but you can't reason with the nutjobs in charge.

Did you see the impact this has on the Bitcoin price? Me neither... the world of Bitcoin goes on without them, and the price just crossed the $300 mark.  ;D

Russia most probably need this technology the most... well the people does.. the politicians and the policy makers on the other hand, have other ideas... and while these people

are in control, Bitcoin will struggle. Let freedom rule, where freedom are welcomed.  ::)

Luckily Bitcoin doesn't need Russia.

The thing that we need to remember is, there is no governmental regulation of anything except people.

What exactly is governmental regulation of people? It is the few regulating the many.

I am not in favor of revolt. What I AM in favor of is, people determining what or who their government is... even if it is only they, themselves, governing themselves, on an individual basis.

Why do we each need to be part of a government besides the one that we are ourselves? Because we are not strong enough in this world and life to live without help. We help each other.

What should we do about a dictatorial government that is against us? First, we need to recognize it. Second, we have to decide if we are better off with or without it. Next, we need to evaluate the ways to get out or to change it. Guerrilla warfare is often the best way to leave an oppressive, aggressive government. Not direct fighting guerrilla warfare. Rather, peaceful change guerrilla warfare.

Read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein. Find the place within that describes how to build a safe, "cell oriented," underground network, and change government from within. In our day of electronic communications, this can be done safely and easily, if we do it right.

When the cell system becomes the government, the old government comes crashing down.

:)

Small correction. It is not proposing jail sentences.
It is proposing enhancing the jail sentences from 2 years to 4 years.  :P

The thing is about control IMO. Russia has a lean to control everything in their citizens lives. Bitcoin is not easy to control, so better to ban it.

this is strange, i remember that they were pro bitcoin last time when they removed the ban, and suddenly, they change their mind, for now another trash thinking about children abuse and how it may be connected to bitcoin?

or drug with bitcoin, and shit like that? because they cannot contorl it? well guess what dear russia, bitcoin is decentralized

... along with cheese.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/20/europe/russia-war-on-cheese/

Is the Russian government run by idiots? If this story has any truth then I have no doubt that Russia would be made obsolete in the future and will probably become a slave to US/EU going forward.

Watching technology outdo governments is always a beautiful sight. They feel like pathetic ants trying to deal with an alien artifact that is disturbing their environment. These guys will never learn that you cannot stop progress no matter how much you try to ban it, but I guess they still haven't learned after the internet became unstoppable worldwide.

A year or two ago this story would have concerned me, but now it seems relatively amusing.

Well that seems to be always the case: governments trying to hinder—or stop completely—the growth of technology that could change the way Man looks into the world. They always want to assume control over the people that is under their power. Bitcoin has done just that, and they want it to stop before it turns all out against them.

The stopping of technology because of gov agendas is always sad to see. I can see how they will stop automation of a lot of jobs because it threatens unemployment. We should be happy that technology can replace a lot of dangerous/boring jobs, but of course this creates problems within the system, that's why I think a lot of things will change in near future and money is one of them.

http://www.coindesk.com/russian-minister-confirms-plans-to-ban-bitcoin-to-fiat-conversions/ (http://www.coindesk.com/russian-minister-confirms-plans-to-ban-bitcoin-to-fiat-conversions/)

I expect BTC to be more and more successful in Russia. Well, if the law don't change again.
The plan right now is to ban exchanging BTC to rubles. That means the few Russian people who own BTC will have o keep them, and that's good. Who wants rubles anyway? Russian currency has always been seen as junk money outside of Russia. Better have BTC by far.

They can try, but there are over 250 other countries that like bitcoin actually :)
Bitcoin is global, without borderds thats its strenght

I think this will be a very good thing for bitcoin, as long as there are still several large countries where it can still be traded for the fiat dollar.

With a ban on exchanging fiat and bitcoin in Russia (and hopefully some other large economies) the only way for residents of these nations to obtain it would be by mining or in exchange for goods or services.   Given the right circumstances and word of mouth this could well be the catalyst for levels of everyday bitcoin use unseen in the west. 

Yes, I felt the same way when I read the article. Banning Bitcoin>Ruble conversion just stops the inflow of money from other countries. Shouldn't Russia try to stop the outflow of money, such as black market money? I can only assume that the law actually bans bitcoin conversion in both directions and the article is simplifying the words.

I believe the ban can only act as a deterrent to slow down the growth of bitcoin in Russia, they can't stop people owning bitcoin. There is no effective way to track bitcoin ownership.

Not even a ban will stop russians from buying bitcoins. They dont want to keep their savings in a failing currency.

It shows how much they are panicking. The governments don't know how to deal with new tech. If it was on their power, they would love to ban the entire internet too like the NK dictator pig. Of course, it's too late to do any of that because we aren't brainwashed. Bitcoin will never be stopped, you are either in or out, but it will never stop. Too late for it to stop it now.

let's hope it will not happen  :(

Russia is a country that didn't let its people have passport's until the late 80's / early 90's.
They're one of the most controlling countries in the world, of course they don't like bitcoin, most wealthy Russian's left the country years ago & have most of their money in dollars/euro/gbp.

When bitcoin gains mainstream adoption Russia will have no choice but to allow its people to use it.

They are not idiots. Ponzi schemes are made by those who make laws and Bitcoin is something they don't understand and fear for that reason.

Russia needs bitcoin more then bitcoin needs Russia.  The only markets that matter are US, China and the EU. Everything else is small potatoes.

As you can see by the price in russia, it's lagging behind quite a lot.

All this restriction does is make the average joe in russia be left out in the bitcoin economy, potentially making them miss the boat. (While of course putin and his friends will still stock up on bitcoin to profit).

and some day putin just forbidds the vodka like the other Dudes on his chair before  ::)
really guys. i think the goverment will just fuck you if you do really shit with the taxes.. back in the 80`s there where also guys who burned alcohol illegal and should get 10  years in russia ;)

but  ;D Be Aware  :D It`s Russia  :o

Countries which have a weak currency / are insecure about their currency tend to attack Bitcoin.  :)

After communists Russia is under control of criminals they all over in no one to stop them  :(

^^^ True dat ^^^

They attack Bitcoin because they seek a scapegoat to hide their own venality, corruption and incompetence.  BTC is a convenient political target...

MAN. Why does Russia have to do this? Bitcoin is great and it doesn't do any harm to Russia. As Russia is a big part of the world's economy it may be quite harmful for bitcoin if Russia does this.

You've nailed it. Countries in with capital controls fear massive devaluation and inflation. Bitcoin circumvents their capital controls. They actually fear crypto currencies.


Above is the reason.

This was the only thing left to do. If I am not wrong, Russia said bitcoin currency is illegal and now they'll arrest people who deal with bitcoins too. They should atleast first check if the currency is being misused or not and then take a step. It's ridiculous if people just trading in bitcoins are sent to the prison.

Russia behaves so ignorantly about this whole new technology. I mean you can ban illegal use.
But why ban all activity? It is something that should be taken serious in many ways before complete ban.

Russia is Russia. Will this affect bitcoin and how? I think not, because bitcoin is going to be the future, i dont understand why Russia wants to fight against it, and when they will realize that is better to join and support it than to fight against it.

Even without cryptocurrencies, fiats can also be used in drug transactions. They won't stop the blackmarket by stopping Bitcoin. They would want more control over Bitcoin and want banks to be used as a primary payment method, collecting more fees. It does help to prevent tax invasion too.

Russia banning bitcoin won't affect the price that much. Also, see how Localbitcoins' volume in Russia is doing. You will be surprised how this banning affected bitcoin there. ;D

A fast view of this news make understand to everyone the fear that the economy of Russia have from bitcoin. This a clear sign of the crisis that this economy are passe. They have fear from bitcoin because have fear that most of the Russian goes to the bitcoin because of not believe in their national currency. This it would be the end for the Russian economy which even such kind of actions it is in serious difficulties after the international sanctions. This situation has one and only one name, Putin. With its delirium of greatness, with his authoritarianism in guiding its Government, with his stupidity in doing its foreign policy, with his myopia in using the force outside its national borders or stealing territory or create or support irredentism to, or in the other independents countries near Russia has bring all this situation for one country which, under another normal and fair leadership, would be one of the most prosperous and developed in the world.

What if a rogue exchange located in another country opted to extort Russians as an adjunct revenue stream?

I am not suprised at all. Russia was never very democratic and if they cant control it, they try to kill it. Bitcoin is currency of free people and that dont fit in Russia.

Oh waw! I am glad I don't l don't live in russia  :o

Only in Russia.

They've threatened similar before, has anybody ever been imprisoned there for bitcoin use?

We wouldn't know any way, Russia is corrupt as hell, they probably just put people into jail & throw away the key.

I smell FEAR of bitcoin 'Mother Russia'.

Putin should be studying a plan to expand the size of national jails if he wants to start putting everyone involved on Bitcoin on there because he's going to run out of space.

http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/6f265fee175dfeef9f43111bb398bbea.png
http://cdn0.dailydot.com/uploaded/images/original/2015/10/26/coin-dance-RUB-volume.jpg

This picture is very revealing. Since the ban was set, the market on BTC/rubble is still growing at a steady pace. The smart Russians don't want to miss on the last opportunities to get some cheap coins no matter what Putin says about it.

It is normal. I know this chart from this link: http://coin.dance/charts (http://coin.dance/charts). Everyone who can do the right thing whatever telling the others, Putin or its Government. As for the jail if Putin decide something I'm fear that someone may be made as example. He don't care about nothing when it is in risk him's authority as an absolute leader. It is really to have fear.

That's not a valid excuse for Russia to target bitcoins. If tomorrow drug transactions take place using Amazon/Starbucks gift cards, they'll start arresting people using these websites as well? Bitcoin is just a crypto currency and people who are misusing it should be arrested. Not those who are just using the currency for their personal benefit/legal transactions. It's just an extreme step.

A little late but..

As you said, it's an underground exchange. It would likely charge more fee and not require verification. Most underground sites uses services like tor to host their website and it would be impossible to trace the user. However, the user should use a mixer to minimize the possibility of getting tracked. Even without it, it is hard to identify without exposing the address yourself.

I don't really understand why they want to stiffle digital currencies. It would be a great tool for Russia to surpass a lot of sanctions.

The more Russia bans bitcoin, the more bitcoin becomes an embodiment of freedom.

I feel that soon they'll target and lock down LocalBitcoins sellers. I hope they don't cross the line with that.

The ban just means there is no financial freedom in Russia. When the bitcoin is widely adopted in the world, the Russia is later for the game. They will lose even more.

I really hope russia does not do this. Russians are still a vital part of the market.

chinese are more vital than russia can ever dream about, they are only cutting their legs with this

it must be said also that many hackers are from russia, this in some way can be beneficial to reduce the hacking attempt for bitcoin

That is right. Chinese support the bitcoin network by providing most the mining power. It supplies most of the miners. Its mining pools are the biggest in the world. The Chinese exchanges are most active. China is the most important part of bitcoin community.

Russia has cheap energy, it should mine most of the bitcoin blocks. However, it missed the boat.

Yes, I was just thinking about how Russia missed the boat.  As far as I know, there are no serious miners or mining pools in Russia.  Russia is missing out on a lot of wealth creation.

If Russia still has currency controls, that means that individual Russian citizens will find it hard to participate in Bitcoin.  There may be an arbitrage opportunity for visitors to Russia carrying BTC, as there apparently is in Argentina.

Personally I am very tired of hearing of all these people and places that want to do away with bitcoin because they claim its used to fund terrorisim, drugs, prostitution, etc.. Yes it definitly is used for these things BUT it is also used for many other thing s as well like investments, saving, purchasing legitamite goods and/or services. To just get rid of it and start trying to imprison people for using it is not fair at all. If they are so worried about bitcoin being used for terrible things and want to ban because of that then I think they need to start banning all for of currencies, meaning they will have to make everything in life free. No like they always say nothing in life is free right? Well actually you can get Bitcoin for free, imagine that. I think that's the real reason so many people are so against bitcoin. It give people a way to sit in front of a computer and make money without having to answer to a boss or corporation. It allows people that are not able to get to jobs because of lack of transportation or something else like a criminal background to still make money and survive int he world today. For example I was laid off about a year ago. Since then I have had some minor run ins with the law and ended up with a criminal background I am not proud of, but over the last year I have completely turned my life around and am no longer the same person I used to be. That doesn't matter though because whn I apply for a job they just see my criminal past and don't look any further. Bitcoin has giving me a way to at least stay afloat and get by. Meaning I can put a roof over my head most of the time and food n my stomach. Without the oppertunity to get these free bitcoins myself and many others wouldnt be able to survive. SO to ban it because SOME people use it for bad is bullshi*!

There are also many hackers from China and the United States. The russian hackers will not care, most of them are clever enough to bypass any bullshit restrictions Russia puts in place.

You are right. The US dollar is the most widely used drug money, but it is not banned. Because most US dollars are used for legitimate purpose.

Yes, no doubt about this. The people who will most suffer from this will the poor. They could have got a cheap way to keep some of their savings outside the eyes of the mighty government but that mighty government don't want that. It just want its citizens to remain poor and docile.

Bitcoins are a great currency gaining fame worldwide but many countries are still against use of it as some people are using it against humanity, by doing illegal works with it. Many countries offer punishment for it but Russia has proposed jail sentence directly for any use of bitcoins in the country. Illegal activities of bitcoins have grown in Russia and russia's government has taken an action to stop this. This is certainly a negative face of bitcoins.

All these illegal shit can be done with fiat too.I don't think this could be a major reason for such a decision.
There is something else which is hurting there policies.
Most probably there communism is getting disturbed.

Most criminal activities are supported by fiat. That is a known fact. Threat of jail sentence is just a deterrent. Bitoin will prosper in the other countries. It will survive in Russia.

Everything can be used for a legitimate or for an evil purpose. From a knife (you can use it for food or to stab someone) to weapons to money. I mean it's 2015, whoever is still trying to stop Bitcoin is missing the boat and being an idiot at once.

Its nothing to do with the Kremlin having anything in particular against Bitcoin. The reason is Bitcoin would be (and probably has been) used by external forces (mainly US/CIA backed NGO's in the country (Fake charities and human rights organisations etc) from financing dissent within the country at the the behest of the wests establishment Its not because its a threat to the Russian economy. There has been a lot of work in the background to not only take down Putin but foster dissent and Bitcoin is an ideal way to transfer funds anonymously to various groups. The reason for them pushing for dissent is because Russia is a threat to the banking cartels. Im not saying Russia is right or wrong, Im saying I understand the reason.

The use of bitcoin in Russia by the potential evil forces is materialized yet. The potential of bitcion in good use has much more benefits.

Russia could be the mining centre of the world with cheap and vast amount of energy.

Sad. This is just another example that proves that the government is very apprehensive to lose control over actual currency. This is a Draconian law for sure. Seeing the multitude of people trading in Bitcoins isn't it more sensible to just legalize it and regulate it properly?

its complicated,just like bitcoin used for any violance,its banned or illegal,lets see anything beside bitcoin. there was many thing used for criminal,should be they illegal or banned too,i dont much know about bitcoin,but i just hope someday bitcoin will accpeted by everyoe,accepted in around the world,because i believe bitcoin such a big thing,and a good future.

Don't forget it's only a proposal, nothing is written in stone just yet. I doubt that they will go to such extreme measures just because portion of users is
using it for illegal activities. It would be much smarter to regulate exchanges in a way that would recognize investors from illicit users.

Bitcoin is traceable. The Russian government should develop ways to trace the illegal use of bitcoin. It should work closely with the exchanges so that money laundering is prevented/reduced.

If bitcoin were a crime then consider me a criminal. I refuse to let crypto-currencies get taken from us and I hope everyone stands with me on that. We can't be scared away from something just because it doesn't directly benefit the people who make the rules.

Hey Russia, Thanks for pointing out a positive solution to govt controls: Virtual Currencies!

Thanks for the free adversitising!

haha, agreed, Russia should need to known theirs stupidity..

Make sense, when this comes from "bleep" country .  ;D

I am sure that if they don't do anything about it (to maintain their power over the people) then it will be too late (if not already).
Btw, wasn't Russia positive towards crypto a while back?

How is Bitcoin traceable? Use a good VPN (based in the United States or any of the European Union nations), and use anonymous exchanges such as BTC-e. And when you convert your coins to fiat cash, use anonymous methods such as debit cards. Unless you make some serious blunder, there is no chance of the government tracing your Bitcoin activity.

Just another example how the authorities are scared of the rise of virtual currency. Would it not be easier to just legalize it and put certain regulation for safe and secure transactions? I think Russia (and others) need to wake up and face the facts that BTCs are here to stay.

You are in big wrong. Russia is not at all against the digital currencies. It is against bitcoin. That's a very different thing. Russia have fear from bitcoin and invent excuses to ban it. The Russian Authorities have fear because the Russians, seeing the weakness of its national money, will choose bitcoin to use and hold their capital. This can damage further their economy already in crisis. As for Russian Authorities hate against digital currencies read well the below article when is written that, according to various rumors, Russia is preparing to create the (digital) bitruble.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115302/russia-to-create-bitruble-a-state-run-digital-currency-for-2016 (http://cointelegraph.com/news/115302/russia-to-create-bitruble-a-state-run-digital-currency-for-2016)

Wow if this actually happens... somethings gonna happen