Bitcoin Forum

What would happen if you took control ?

TerraCoin doesn't really change anything in the bitcoin chain except for the block rate and diff retarget rate.  I don't think it serves any useful purpose except as a pump n' dump scheme.

It doesn't matter if it gets 51%'d now or not, it'll be dead in a month due to merged mining anyway.

It's a pointless fork.

Whoever owns the 51% fork invalidates all the coins that were mined on the opposing fork and also invalidates all transactions that occurred on it.

It's not really like a denial of service attack, it's more like owning a 51% share in a company and thus being able to decide the fate of the chain and its contents.  I'm pretty sure that because of this it's also not illegal to fork a chain with a 51% attack because you're operating within the protocol of the system.

It's a pointless fork.

As far as I can see, all other coins excluding Bitcoin are flawed even more than Bitcoin itself. Unless something much better emerges,
having "backup" Bitcoin chain is good idea.

What I think is the greatest deal with Terracoin is that developers are unknown. I hope it'll stay that way. Devs, don't go public, ever!
Use all means neccessary to stay anonymous. Don't fall for "fame / glory" bullshits, you'll expose yourself to those you don't wanna meet.

It's not a backup if it is subject to the same risks. That's why IMHO ppcoin is the only bitcoin alternative which adds value: It experiments with a different network security model.

How is anonymity beneficial? People still need to revise code changes, since they never should just trust the developer blindly...

All chains add value if the people who set them up educate themselves about crypto currency. Just because one set of people have already done it all and told everyone, doesn't mean there isn't educational value for others in redoing their work all over again. I'm a working fashion photographer- my whole incentive to be hanging out on the computer learning code is Cryptocurrency. Otherwise I would be out with the models. Trust me. It might seem like a horribel choice to everyone else, but I'm getting my kicks like this. So be it. That has value.

The only point I can agree upon is that you have more people developing and revising code. But there is no need to start a separate blockchain for that. IMHO the reason why people start a separate blockchain is because of the lack of funding. Pump'n'dump is currently the only feasible way to get a return on your coding (which is minimal if you just copy the chain). Right now I don't see it justified to buy into this blockchain. There is no proof of significant development other than keeping in sync with the bitcoin code.

Now it would be a different story if they had started development a while ago and would have augmented the code base significantly.

Current difficulty is 2373 which means network hashing is at ~85 Ghash. You better join the train, else you'll be overrun big time.  :D

Why would anyone destroy an alt coin it seems stupid to me, leave it simulate itself i want to see how this plays out without manipulation  :(

Nobody should have the power or control over any coin that's what Bitcoin is all about no control and full decentralization

I don't agree. Anything that can be cheaply destroyed should be destroyed. If no one tries to lay waste to these chains, there will be no empirical evidence of security differences across chains.

I only have 3Gh but im down. Hit me up in IRC

I've got 2.5.  Only need another 45 to kill the network.

Does that extend to personal property? Because gasoline is pretty cheap.

Does that extend to personal property? Because gasoline is pretty cheap.

I'm going to edit that to note the reference to the Joker in Batman when he was talking about why he doesn't need ton's of money. Because the things he likes "gasoline and explosives" are cheap.

This my second edit: That's a really jerk way of thinking about things. Websites are destroyed cheaply and easily, so are sand castles, and people's hard work. There is no security difference with terracoin, it's an exact copy of bitcoin that new users can fool around with. Let it go, just because you can be a jerk doesn't mean you have to be one. No one 51% bitcoin at it's start because people thought it was cool and enjoyed the experiment. Let others have their curiosity and fun.

Very poor analogies. Bitcoin is self regulated by a consensus of the miners. The miners can choose to do whatever they want. If they want to fork the chain so be it. Those are the rules of the game, no use crying about it just because people are trying to foil a potential pump and dump.

Society and regular business is regulated by government laws decided (hopefully) by a democratic majority. So you are not allowed to destroy other peoples property/work etc. With Terracoin you are dead wrong about destroying someones hard work... nothing is being destroyed that is the way the system has been designed.

Note: I am a proponent of diversity in cryptocurrencies as I believe Bitcoin cannot survive alone, ie. if it is truly a revolutionary concept then competitors must arise forming a Crypto currency ecosystem... and this system may one day not include BTC! So I am not a bitcoin fanboy/hoarder etc. Just there is nothing morally wrong with attacking chains, thats how they were designed. Your argument is just poor and lacks logic. You got a problem with that go pump PPC instead  ;D

It's actually worse than pointless, since the addresses used start with a 1 the same as bitcoin.  This is something that the creators of the other alternate chains did not mess up!  A terracoin address is not easily identifiable as a terracoin address.

+1 I think this was a terrible idea.  What happens if we send bitcoin to terracoin addy?  Lost coins?

Do not waste time on them, really. Don't wake them up from Bitcoin dream, that way it'll hurt much more one day when Satoshi and
few other early adaptors decide to cash-out, and flood exchanges with their millions of BTC premined and hoarded for so many years.

Assuming the fork simply left addresses alone, Bitcoin would go to the Bitcoin clone of the terra address. In practice, yes, lost coins.

Why would anyone destroy an alt coin it seems stupid to me

Surely running a 51% is only testing the coins robustness. It is not stupid to test coins in this way but sensible in my opinion.

We are here because we are interested in alternative cryptocurrencies. We want them to evolve into something better than what is already available. We are all watching the Darwinian process of cryptocurrencies. Launching tests on coins like 51% helps weed out the weak coins. If a coin can survive a 51% attack then we can all be reassured by that fact. If it cannot then it was not meant to be.

I have 2.4Mh to contribute.

How stupid one must be to not realise he's dealing with TRC, not BTC, or the oppossite case? Should we really protect such people?

Population average IQ is already lowest ever. For the sake of healthy specie, we should remove any and all safety measures, now!  ;D

Surely running a 51% is only testing the coins robustness. It is not stupid to test coins in this way but sensible in my opinion.

It's not so fair if we see them building their own club house and we just go burn it down. :-(

+1 I think this was a terrible idea.  What happens if we send bitcoin to terracoin addy?  Lost coins?

It's not stupid, but here's the thing- it's based on Bitcoin, so already know how to 51% it. There is no difference in the protocol at this point. This sort of 51% has been done before, so nothing would be learned by that.

Second: you make a valid point about testing the robustness- but couldn't you guys wait until maybe we were like, "Hey, we came up with a cool idea to protect the coin- can you try 51% to test it?"

The coin has been out since the 28th of October. Thats like a week. Can we not be allowed enough time to come up with something?

We're mostly novice programers here. I understand the value of testing the robustness of something, but if we can use the analogy of a bank: your robbing the vault when a) nothing of value is inside and b) the vault hasn't even been fully built yet.

Besides, can't you guys just take it as an education project?

I think there's nothing wrong with people trying something new.

Starting a crytocurrency is like grounding a new town on a piece of wild and pristine land.  When someone started TRC, they simply plopped down a sign saying "free land", and people who adopted TRC started pitching tents there.  Whether or not this piece of land will develop into a golden city will depend on the people who invested in TRC.  Or it could just turn into a ghostown in a month.

I don't think nuking a tent city is something even warranted unless we feel a great threat, which I don't think we should.

Really. Come up with a way to prevent 51% attacks of nascent blockchains and preserve all the features of the bitcoin POW scheme. That would be innovation! Checkpointing is only a workaround.

In this regard attacking all nascent chains would provide an evolutionary pressure to create a decent solution...

Someone will be motivated to come up with a cockroach of a blockchain.

If we don't nuke everything, the poor cockroach will not be identified. Its creator will proclaim "I have made a cockroach."

Outsiders will not be able to tell a cockroach from terracoin. The noble cockroach will be forgotten.  :'(

+1 I think this was a terrible idea.  What happens if we send bitcoin to terracoin addy?  Lost coins?

Actually I thought about it and no- the coins are not lost. If you sent Bitcoin to a Terracoin address, then the private key of the owner of the terracoin address you INTENDED to send to, will be the same private key as the Bitcoin address you did send to and vice versa. So basically you may have to ask nice, but the intended recipient on either chain will have the private key for the corresponding address in the other chain. So, no- they aren't lost coins.

And if I remember correctly, since sending from one chain to another is not possible, the coins can be recovered by doing some hacks on the wallet.

Lol @ luke jr and his 51% attack attempts.

I don't particularly have any incentive to respond to the scammers that I foiled, given the significant cost (in time) to do so. Nor do I have any financial loss or care particularly if people want to stop mining on Eligius because they were in on the scam (or any other reason). I will clarify that Eligius miners were not adversely impacted by this, and that the CLC mining involved only adding data that I hashed myself to my own transactions; and I was careful to ensure that nobody lost any confirmed CLC. If any Eligius miner wishes to inquire further, I will take the time to answer specific to-the-point questions which are signmessage'd with an active (ie, has mined in the past week) Eligius payout address that has earned at least 2000 TBC (5.36870912 BTC) over all time.

Eligius is a Bitcoin mining pool and I am, as always, committed to doing my best to contribute to and protect the Bitcoin ecosystem. Pyramid schemes built upon forks of the Bitcoin software ultimately discredit and harm Bitcoin's reputation. I hope CoiledCoin will be the last of such scams now that it is clear there are people (not just myself) willing to stand up to them. Namecoin alone demonstrates a legitimate, innovative use of Bitcoin technology, and while I don't personally agree with their ideals/goals, I see it as a good thing for Bitcoin and worth cooperating with.

cablepair, regarding Devcoin, I don't see any reason to treat it as different from any other scamcoin. I will at least discuss it with you on IRC before doing anything other than mining it with the almost-unmodified (zero txn fee, zero post-maturity delay) Devcoin client.

P.S. While the opposition seem to be very venemous and vocal, I have gotten a lot more positive support from a head-count perspective.

Well,

In the meantime,

Will someone please set up a merged mining pool?

http://poolserverj.org/ supports merged mining.

If I don't see one go up in a week or so I'll pay a pool operator to put one up probably.

Assuming the fork simply left addresses alone, Bitcoin would go to the Bitcoin clone of the terra address. In practice, yes, lost coins.