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 Greeks drama continue and EU debt crisis has no end

Greece’s four main banks need to find another €14bn (£10bn) of reserves to ensure they could withstand an economic downturn, the European Central Bank said on Saturday.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/31/greece-banks-14bn-survive-economic-downturn (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/31/greece-banks-14bn-survive-economic-downturn)

And know Spain election

Greece is an small problem in europe, there are other countries in europe that are hiding problems in its biggest banks. See this report about the biggest bank of Deutschland. Deutsche Bank has lost 6,6 billions of dollars in third quarter of this year. http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/29/investing/deutsche-bank-job-losses/

And could be more problems on italian, france and spanish banks.

What have we really thought about it, that's going to get better. Greece problem surfaced in 2009. Six years later, it only have gotten worse. How the hell are we thinking that is going to get better in the near future.

EU is swimming in problems and I don't know will they be able to pull themselves out. It's not just Greece. It's also Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland that have huge and unsustainable debts.

Also immigration problems with people from Syria are killing EU. I don't know, but it doesn't look good!

Billions of dollars in profits have been transferred to the elite class off this Greek tragedy (seems like someone always get profit from big tragedys). The Greek drama is not all what we see around the world this days and even if there is some solutions for problems nothing is really happening. Talks from world leaders, other politicians, bankars going nowhere, they just postpone the the final crash of system. There are no good outcome for the Greek people whichever way the government goes on this, but that will reflect on others for sure.

Well we can't do so much about it. Even if EU banks lend them money, that will just add up to the debt without actually solving some of their growing problem. Also, add the immigration problem to the problems EU is facing, you'll see that Greece's problem wouldn't be taken cared of soon.

Whats the requirement for foreign aid? isnt it that we have the world bank? us has trillions of debt in world bank but how come smaller countires are having difficulties?.

Smaller countries most of the time have smaller resources to pay off their debts. In the case of USA, they could just print and print money if they wanted to given that the world's reserve currency is USD.

It hasn't been forgotten, it's just not dramatic right now so not worth the media's precious pages.

I wouldn't characterize Greece as a small problem for Europe either. Yes, the nominal numbers are low. But the implications and consequences are very real. Europe should consider itself lucky that this issue has happened with a "fringe" member of the EU (sorry to any Greeks who take offense to my use of the word "fringe" in this context.)

i remember that they have still 3 years to assolve their problem, so their are not a priority anymor,e they have they 80B lended money from EU and that's it, now it's up to them to resolve their mess

Why forgotten and why must be made other things only for Greece? They had their help even their behavior was not such to allow the help given by the others. Every country has its problems. To many and big problems. Why must be Greece such particular to have such attention and to have several threads here in bitcointalk? My knowledge about Greece told that there the people live normally. Have no restrictions. Have a quite and not bad life. Why must remember even what it is about the banks in Greece. Going in this way it is not strange to see some problems with the trees in Greece or the forests in Greece. To not mention more banal things...

I think they will somewhat solve this problem in near future.
Do not ever underestimate Greeks. They may be lazy but they know they need to do something about this mess.

i think this is good for btc
many greek moving to more stable currency, bitcoin, even though bitcoin is still very risky !! better than greek money !

My friend EU doesn't give a s**t about Greece. All they are doing are bailing out their banks (mostly German and French banks). They are actually giving money to themselves and not to the Greek people.

First bail out in 2009-2010, 90% of all the funds given to Greece by the EU has gone to the EU banks bailout!

This is said since so many years.Nothing will change.It's just all a big mess.And the ones who have to suffer are as always the normal people while thr damn elite is just laughing and on't give a fuck!

So it will be right if the money of the others go to the Greeks and not to their owners. After all the money given to Greece to create their welfare, must go in crisis all the banks who borrowed money to them. Only the Greeks must not be touched. All the others people who worked to give money to the Greeks must see their banks bankrupted and their money on those lost. No matter what the reason of all this mess are the Greeks. All this only that Greeks continue to have 14 salaries in one year and go in retirement at 57 years. Because no one thing of the wealth of the Greeks created with the money of the others must be touched. Even if such kind of wealth don't exist in any of the countries who gave money to the Greeks. In few words all the others who worked and produced the money given to the Greeks lets go in hell or lets go fired. Important are the Greeks. The glorious and the chosen Greeks people.

the elite are too powerful, which basically means nothing will change the comming 10-20 years. the only thing you can do is save as much as you can and store a large part of it in bitcoin.

I guess it is just not news at the moment. Once they get in trouble with payments again, well see a surge again.

At the moment the Syrians take up all the news space.

Greece will get more EU funding with the refugee problem, which is really a big burden for the EU.

As long they keep reforms going on (which the EU is demanding before giving them more funds), eventually greece will be come solvent again.

Well good and bad at the same time,
Because to move to bitcoin they should have money which generally take from banks.
And banks has frozen/limited their clients in greece, but in general it is good if they really started moving to bitcoin.

Any idea on how they are planning to tackle the wide spread tax evasion?
To me it seems like their current tax laws are a bureaucratic mess and highly inefficient.

no they will not get more fund, they already give them the ultimatum, 80B loan for 3 years, and it's appear that they have already 233B from europe

i'm not sure why greece is so important for europe, risking so much just to save it

The 80B are pledged, not given, Greece get's it when they show progress in reforms.

Also Greece is nothing to the EU in numbers, it is about the unity which the leaders don't want to break. Honestly i felt good with a temp. exit of Greece for 5 years or so. It would show the corrupt countries that corrupt regimes are punished by a temp. exit. instead of a guaranteed bail out when they fuck up.

ah then i must have  missed that point, if they are pledged this is only reinforcing my point about the fact that they will not get more

and if greece is nothing to europe why they are try desperately to save them, i mean until now they have only raised big problems and nothing else, like a dead weight...

printing money only creates more debt

In the end the same greece politicians who did nothing, will keep doing nothing. And so the money will be wasted again.

I firmly believe it is best for the EU to have an alliance with the stronger countries (financially).

Refugee problem is not hard for Greece, there are no refugees there, at least not stay for long. They only cross Greece to go to Germany or richer EU countries.
And these people are not refuges, they are emigrants who seek better money.

Well, it has no end in sight alright. At this stage, I don't how they are going to secure further funding and whether creditors will continue to provide the money without concrete measures being put in place to reduce the debt. And looks like it is going from bad to worse with no solution in sight to tackle it.

Yes. I think there is very little possibility Greek creditors will get their money back. I know some Greeks, they are nice people though.

The government is collaborating with the institutions to find a way to make deposits taken away from Greek banks by depositors to return, tax authorities are going through records to see who could have been cheating etc. It's all a very big effort to keep the banking system from collapsing, a system that has been proven to be non feasible numerous times in the past. If it weren't for the domino effect this could have caused to the rest of the world no one would have been helping Greece imo.

Who told you the part in bold and in red? Varoufakis or Tsipras? Who are the Greeks to cause the destroy of all the world? All these words make me suffer for the continuous help given to a people and a Government who think that are the center of the world where are only the sh...t of it. Able to create only mess, to not work, to live and have profit from the work of the others, to think that the others have as a duty to give them money without any condition, to have the right to use that money in the way they want (for example to go every night in bouzuq, to go for vacation at least two times within a year and to do other "important" things - I don't want to repeat myself), to not work and to have money for this not work and at the end to have the right to decide if to give back the money to the owners or not (naturally has chosen the "not" because the others have the duty to work even for those).

I think that they must be leaved in their destiny in order that finally understand what does it mean to be able to feed themselves as every country try to do.

Greece will receive free cash from largest EU countries, and everything will be ok  ;D Germany and France like to give free cash to another EU countries, just for support, and I think the main free european cash faucet is Germany  ;D

Sure it is Germany. Go in Germany and ask about Greeks. Then hear their opinions about them. Ask Angela Merkel about those and ask why wanted to go out of the summit in which would be taken the decisions about the future of the Greece. Ask Angela Merkel about the why of the more severe agreement signed by all the countries and naturally the Greece (because have not the balls to tell no) compared to the one which would be signed before the referendum made in Greece about this agreement and told "no" by 60% of the Greeks (under the invitation to do so by the "strong" Tsipras). Ask the why of the condition put by the Europeans to Tsipras about the creation by the Greek state of assets worth an estimated €50 billion which will be put in a special fund to help finance banks and repay Greece’s creditors (sign of the clear "credibility" and "trust" against this state and its Government), ask about the giving of the money with dropper and only after every single and decided reform by the Europeans (another sign this of "credibility" and "trust" versus this country and its Government); reforms which the Governments of Greeks were committed to realize every time asked money since 2010.

If you want more about the story of the Greeks and their desire to create wealth with the money of the others you can read the below link. You will learn that is the 6th time in which Greeks are in this situation since are created as a country and that Greece has spent 90 years of its 194 years as a country in default or debt restructuring. This is nearly 50% of all this existence as a independent country. Half of its life as a country Greeks were in default or in debt restructuring. A glorious story in the modern world.

At the end don't forget to make another post like the above and to make much more grin. Will make you and the Greeks more happy and will resolve their problems.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html)

Ah forget... Do a search in internet and will find to much love for Greeks and their leadership.

Greece have been heroic in their efforts to help the refugees, especially considering they have zero cash and a heap of problems themselves

of particular note how many citizens are helping them

note how none of the uber rich people in world are doing anything to help refugees or greece with this problem, or eu

I have been seeing less and less news about Greece on TV lately. I think the media is shifting peoples attention away from it so they don't realize that after complying with Europe's (Merkel and friend) demands, they are still severely screwed up. They are now with the immigrant issue all day and forgetting about the Greece incident. We'll eventually go back to it once people start rioting.

Not just politicians but established economists from all over the world have agreed on this. Letting Greece go bankrupt could kick start a domino phenomenon sending ripples to worldwide financial markets. The Eurozone depends on stability to survive, if one member outright refused to pay debts and decides to exit the monetary union, it'd open up the way for more to do so. And this is what a domino effect is by definition.

What do you think would happen if a Eurozone state got away from houndreads of billions in debt by exiting the monetary zone, stopping austerity and starting to print money? While there's no guarantee that this could work, there's a strong sense of euro skepticism brewing in Europe. And the evidence to back up arguements against the euro just keep growing. Just look at Wolfgang Schauble favoring a two speed eurozone while smaller countries in the euro suffer low growth rates. And at the same time, Romania ans Poland, that to this day halt adoption of the Euro, have some of the highest growth rates in Europe.

Keeping Greece's banking system alive is part of an effort to keep the Euro alive.

Greece going away will smack Deutshe Bank (who has trillions of debt) under the train, global crisis will come for sure it it happens.

All your words are mainly words of Varoufakis or Tsipras who during the 6 months in head of Greece (since the day of capitulation) wanted (with such "arguments") to extort as much as it was possible from the Eurozone. Because they are never saturated with the money of the others, stealing the money of the others and to not pay the debt to the owners. Naturally using all the possible various extortions. Are even words of other leaders but that have nothing to do with your big word about the catastrophe of all the world if Greece will go out of Eurozone. I don't want to make comment myself about this absurdity but i will give you (and everyone who want to read neutral and authoritative thoughts) a link to read in order that you have sweet dreams even if Greece decide to go tomorrow out of Eurozone (impossible thing because they don't have the balls to do such thing, otherwise why Tsipras accepted an agreement more much severe than that denied by more than 60% of the glorious Greeks under the request of Tsipras itself): http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/business/international/greece-debt-crisis-euro.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/business/international/greece-debt-crisis-euro.html?_r=0)

I can assure you that the exit of Greece out of Eurozone can't touch no one of countries of this zone. The only fear is that the case of Greece can increase the amount of people who show skepticism versus the Eurozone. But as about the financial risk no one of the Eurozone countries will suffer. The weight of economy of Greece in the overall economy of Euroze is only 2.4%. See here: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/prices/hicp/html/hicp_economic_activities_inw_000000.4.U2W.en.html (https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/prices/hicp/html/hicp_economic_activities_inw_000000.4.U2W.en.html)

Thinking that this percentage can destroy the Eurozone it is like to tell that a mouse can destroy a building with 5 floors. Greece must be grateful to Hollande which obligated Merkel to stay within a room with Tsipras and him with another that I don't remember who is, and at him's words: we will not go out of this room without having an agreement. Otherwise Greece was already out of Eurozone.

There are to many the articles about the go out of Greece from eurozone. Everyone believe what he want. But if the words of the above poster it would be possible and true Tsipras and Varoufakis, knowing this possibility, would not accepted never any kind of agreement except the completion of their requests. But the facts show the opposite. They signed an agreement much more severe than that denied by more than 60% of the Greeks invited to do so by Tsipras himself (the author of the signing of the first one) only some days before. Why? It will be this possible if they know and were sure about the the power of their going out of the Eurozone? Everyone can understand easy the why.

Anyhow this don't change any thing about the Greece, their shameful story about the repetition of these shameful situations - which, as it is told in one of my above post, are the normal story of them for 50% of the time in which they are created as a country - their habitue to create wealth with the money of the others and then deny the money to the owners, and most of all their inability to govern the country like a normal other country. Any other word told can't change this big story of this big country and big people guided by big leaders. Since I have as habit to write with facts and not only with words I am re giving again my above link which confirms all my above words: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html)

Clearly you are biased against Greece and the elected government there, but your ignorance doesn't help. See, the domino effect theory about the eurozone has been in discussion long before Varoufakis or Tsipras were part of the Government in Greece.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/interactive/2010/apr/28/europe-economy-dominoes-greece-eu
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-14985256
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/fears-of-euro-zone-domino-effect-will-greek-contagion-bring-portugal-down-a-692251.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36712670
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704548604575098070967027554

I could just keep posting links (as you do) proving my point, and negating your notion that I just keep repeating what Syriza says but there really is no point doing that as the message has already gotten across.

But soon they will solve their financial problems  ;D

http://www.inquisitr.com/2531349/project-is-launched-to-revive-colossus-of-rhodes-one-of-the-seven-wonders-of-the-ancient-world/

You must be without doubt Greek. Because only those are able to act by trickery like you. All the articles in your links are made during the years 2010-2011 when your scenario had big probabilities to be verified. Even I believe that even in our days can be some other article which support again this idea you were not able to find those. In this case you (and who want my answer) must read my above post and find my answer. It is in the fourth paragraph.

But in the this year the above scenario mentioned and defended by you is not more possible. Because of help given to the Greece during the last 5 years. My article about this problem (given above) is made in October 31, 2015. I am giving below some rows from it:

What if Greece left the eurozone?

At the height of the debt crisis a few years ago, many experts worried that Greece’s problems would spill over to the rest of the world. If Greece defaulted on its debt and exited the eurozone, they argued, it might create global financial shocks bigger than the collapse of Lehman Brothers did.

Now, however, some people believe that if Greece were to leave the currency union, in what is known as a “Grexit,” it wouldn’t be such a catastrophe. Europe has put up safeguards to limit the so-called financial contagion, in an effort to keep the problems from spreading to other countries. Greece, just a tiny part of the eurozone economy, could regain financial autonomy by leaving, these people contend — and the eurozone would actually be better off without a country that seems to constantly need its neighbors’ support.

I'm giving again the link of this article of New Your Times for everyone who want to know the latest news about the Greek crisis:  http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/business/international/greece-debt-crisis-euro.html?_r=1

As for me I'm not biasing no one. I am telling only the truth about the Greeks as a people, about their Governments during their story and their habit (as people and Governments) to create wealth with the money of the others and then pretend not only to not give the money to the owners but even to have other money and for more without conditions from those. Like the modern gangsters. I'm giving facts about these things. You have facts which overturn mines? If yes give those.

Again below the link which show that this kind of situation for the Greece, its people and its Governments is repeated for the 6th time since the time where Greece announces its independence and became the sovereign country we know today; and the 7th time since its existence as a people.

I repeat that Greece has spent 90 years of its 194 years as a country in default or debt restructuring, that’s nearly 50%. This is shameful.

The facts are stubborn. They give right to me. Below again the link who show their story as a storical borrower people leaded by cheaters Leaders: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-brief-history-of-financial-crises-in-greece-214114194.html)

From the above link:

2004:

The European commission issues a warning to Greece after discovering the country lied about budget deficit data prior to joining the eurozone.

Who want comments about this?

Repeat. Do you have facts which overturn my facts? But right facts. Not devious ones.

At the end read the post of "the_poet" above to understand better the actually needs and the "smartness" of the Greeks.

i think that greece will not recover and will continue to go to the ground....maybe even one day become privately owned.

Right  n2004al,

everything in this world must me a conspiracy to verify your bias. You kinda remind me of those people that try to prove the existence of god by holy numbers that are supposedely everywhere and such imaginary things. I don't usually resort to ad hominems but I find no motivation to attempt reasoning with someone like you. Your posts are lengthy, but your ability to provide logical counter arguments is minimal, letting your racism, hate bigotry, financial and political illiteracy slip through.

Greece has always been a basket case....a poor country inhabited by very rich..non taxpaying..elite.....no amount of money is going to change their attitude...live on others ...work as little as possible...let the rest of the ec work until they are 70 so they can retire on large pensions having contributed nothing

Words, words and only words. Or fake facts (shame on you). Needed facts, facts and again facts to be credible. No one of my facts is fake like yours. Anyone who don't have deep knowledge about the case we are discussing can be easily prey of your fake facts or your "fair" and "intelligent" words.

It is funny to see that you accuse me with the desire to prove the existence of god by holy numbers. When this thing is you who try to do telling only words, words, words and giving fake facts to cheat who have no knowledge about this case. Who use holy numbers to prove something: me with my facts (links) or you with your words and your fake links.

You cannot reasoning with me because have no facts to do this. And use words trying to hide behind those yourself, your "big" words about my racism and all the other your "big discoveries" about my mind and my posts. I am able to write thousands words without telling nothing with those, like you do, but I prefer to write only words based on the facts. This is my only way to express my thoughts.

Which of my facts is fake (like your links)? Show me those to prove to me and to who read our posts that I'm wrong. Like your pretend with your words, words, words.

Which of my words is racism like you pretend? You don't know the meaning of the word "racism". I will continue even in this case with the facts and not with words like you do.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary the meaning of racism is: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism)

1. poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race
2. the belief that some races of people are better than others

or full definition of "racism":

1. a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2. racial prejudice or discrimination

Find in my words such things and I will try to defend myself.

Attention: You must refer only to my words and only to those. Not to your possible interpretations of my words. The interpretations will be always only yours. Seeing your posts I am able to understand how can be an your interpretation. How can be an interpretation made from your "superior" mind (I'm referring exactly to the following sentence when consider your mind "superior": You kinda remind me of those people that try to prove the existence of god by holy numbers that are supposedely everywhere and such imaginary things. In other words all my posts are full of holy numbers  ???. Yours with facts.  ???).

Remember: I'm responsible only for my words and the facts connected with those. I can do interpretations of everything I have wrote based on the facts given on my posts or others that I can have or find.

I genuinely feel sorrow for the Greeks this has been before and warned off yet our so called betters see the Euro cannot be a one fit all currency.

i agree
it is bad for poor greek civilian, very short notice.