Bitcoin Forum

I have been playing on SEALSWITHCLUBS.EU which is a BTC poker site.  I never deposited anything into my account since I started playing 2 weeks ago and I have yielded significant gains and this was done without a bankroll. In this short time span, the player traffic has doubled and games are playing higher which means higher returns on investments.

I am asking for a starter stake of 10 BTC with the following payback schedule: 0.5 BTC everyday for 30 days for a total of 15 BTC returned and a 5 BTC profit for the staker.

Player Wallet History:

Cash In: ZERO

Cash Out: 3.724 BTC

The Proof:

http://flic.kr/p/drQoGY


Player Transfer History:

Cash Out: 2.642 BTC

The Proof:

http://flic.kr/p/drQoCq



Please deposit into here: 17DfkxUTPtEVcTrmGSXKGN9umXPLLiW7BC

So what happens when you lose all the coins?

Since 10 BTC = 10,000 units on Seals and games run as low as 1/2, it is mathematically impossible to lose with the winrate established.

Obviously, freerolling from 0 units to what you see in the OP proves that.

if it was that easy you wouldnt need a loan...you say you earned 5-6 bitcoins just from starting at 0 and winning freerolls and low stakes games.

 if it was so easy  your 5btc should have been plenty to build up more until you were rich.

I like to play poker and on seals nothing is a sure thing....youre asking someone else to take all the risk(10btc can go fast)
 while you get to play poker for free basically.

if you were a sure thing your previous winnings should have been enough to build a bankroll.

Something just makes me think you are a little crooked.  Can't quite put my finger on it.

^ haha :)

So if no-one can lose, where do the winnings come from?

So you want a loan to be used on an investment that is mathematically likely to be lost? I dunno man.

Basically it's the same as saying "Lend me some money and I'll buy lottery tickets with them. If I win I'll give you half. If I lose you get nothing back."

The creditor takes all the risk!  :D LOL

Nice try Mr. Crooked.

You're right. I don't need a loan. I can buy my own bitcoins or use the winnings I've earned that are in my bitcoin qt. But necessity is not a sole reason for asking for loans. If that is whom you are looking for then you are going to fail as an investor.  Maybe the people of this site could take a page or two from the various other lending forums on the internet that have a clue on how to do it right.

Oh and yes making coins on seals is that easy.

Thanks trolls, come again.

If they use silly capslock and bold lettering and boast about how much profit they're making without any tangible proof you can bet your ass it's a scam artist at work.

Crookid = CrookID = Crook Identification

Thanks for the heads up.  Try again later?  

Oh really?

Is that why squal1066 can vouch for me?  Isn't he like someone with a good reputation on here?

Is it that you people are that mental, born with a less than adequate IQ, can't comprehend when reading, too lazy to click links proving the claim, or just so bad at basic math that you shouldn't be in the lending forum?

You guys are disgraceful and are hurting this community with your trolling. How can bitcoin grow when legitimate and fiscally responsible people get trolled in the lending section. You are shameful and ignorant if you think I'm a scam artist.  

i never said you were a scammer...i dont think anyone did.

the fact that you never said how you would repay if you lost  and you are asking for a very high risk loan.....gambling.

scammer or not   good luck.

I see.

I guess I didn't convey my OP very well. I was looking for a stake (reason for the large ROI) rather than a standard loan.

I suppose I should have realized that this community only deals in standard loans. Let me redefine:

As a loan, I will accept 10 BTC for 12 BTC returned (2 BTC profit) @ a rate of .4 BTC per day for 30 days.

If the investment does drop to 0 then it will be repaid at a minimum of 1.5 BTC/wk for 8 weeks (minus all payments for 12 BTC total) starting 2 weeks after hitting 0.

I don't have any outstanding loans. I don't owe anyone anything.

I don't have a problem with loan requests in theory, but in practice what ends up happening is people don't bother to learn *anything* about how things work before running their mouth.  One voucher is great, probably should have mentioned it in your opening post though.  Being that you are obviously superior to the vast majority of members on the forums here though, I should probably just defer to your judgment, after all people are just flocking to this listing to fill your loan request so far.

I don't think that I am superior to anyone.

I just don't think it's right for senior members of this site to flame away with prejudice.  While I understand the logic behind protectionism policies due to low post count, lack of reasonable interaction across other threads, etc... Flaming creates isolationism, attitudes that are unfair, and biased towards trolling by more users.  It does exactly what this forum shouldn't do - decreases interaction (which is what you are alluding to in order to create trust). So why do that to people underminer?

But that is a different matter.  Look, my request is not substantial. It is fair. I have given enough credence to it. There should be some level of warm fuzzy.

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Flame?  You are asking for money and implying there is little risk involved.  What happens when you decide not to log back in here?  (This happens!)


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Read my handle aloud and ask yourself that again.


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Standard MO for scams, no offense intended, its the truth.

well its not a scam.

I play poker over multiple networks. I have a strong reputation in poker staking communities. I have paid back everyone and made those who've trusted good money.  Bitcoin hasn't taken off in the poker staking world, so I come here. Do I need to get staked? Absolutely not. Would I like to build trust with others in case I ever do need to be staked? Sure. It's doubtful that would ever happen, but in the rare case that it did, it would be nice If I knew I had established lines of credit with others.

talking about less than adequate IQ...


/facepalm.

take statistics class, learn distribution curves and get back to me.  I facepalm your facepalm.

I believe I have taken the most clear and concise parts of your argument and condensed them into one statement:

I AM A MUTHERFUCKIN GENIUS AT THIS GAME IF YU DISAGREE UR STOOPID GIVE ME MONEY THOUGH.

Who is this "squal1066" that can vouch for you? Are you willing to provide ID, phone number, current address, proof of income, and a picture with a shoe on your head (the latter being the most important)?

Apparently, this site is full of trolls and these are not the kind of people that I want to build a financial relationship with. I rescind my request. Its a wonder that Bitcoin hasn't picked up more mainstream attention in the 3 years its been around. Some of you wouldn't know opportunity if you stepped on it.  Good luck.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97214.0


^Must be an invisible thread.

When you ask for $108 of an anonymous, irreversible currency, stating that the risk is on the lender and that, if you lose while playing poker, the lender will not be repaid, it's kind of a tough thing to sell.  I know I wouldn't lend to someone like that.  Not only could they simply take the money and run without consequence, even if they did play legitimately, my chance of the person winning would have to be at least 67% in order for me to see any return on my investment vs risk.  And even though you've been successful on a small scale in the past, it doesn't mean your luck will continue (poker is a zero-sum game, after all, though I do concede that there is a large amount of skill involved).  This stake/loan/investment is a gamble dependent on you, and no one knows you.  And you ask why no one wants to lend to you?

You have not been taken seriously because you have failed to understand Bitcoin and its history.  Countless scams have taken place where people make very similar requests as the one you just made, then take the money and run.  There is NOTHING you have mentioned that eliminates the possibility that you would do the same.

Trolls post simply to disrupt a thread.  I saw no trolling, just legitimate concerns about your (rescinded) request.

You should order the item in my signature.  Only 1btc!

If I came to your face, would you say that? Oh wait, you'd have your mouth full.

Can you please answer this question. It not trolling, it's a valid question.

winnings come from other players' losses and winnings are shared with investors at an agreed price.

my quote reads that it is mathematically impossible to have any tangible risk of ruin.


http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/risk_of_ruin/


use the link above and type in the following conservative values (1000 for bb, 5 for wr, 250 for standard deviation, RoR = 0.0000113% - and thats conservative)

with games as low as 1 (sb) / 2 (bb = big blind) and 10,000 units / 2 bb = 5,000 (where only 1,000 is used above) so now you can see that it is in fact mathematically impossible as the WR (winrate) exceeds 5 and the deviation is likely half of what is listed above.  

now add in the fact that the site does freerolls (win units without any investment) and you can see how even the most risk averse person should have no problems.

I just got back from the casino and made $68 in 3 hours time (a little better than par for the course against my lifetime wr) and while that is nothing astounding nor breath taking, it was in a $1 (sb) $2 (bb) uncapped game (buy in for $1,000,000 if you like) and seals runs penny, nickel, and dime equivalent poker. All things considered, I am supposed to be beating it for a good wr. I have my reasons for why I play there (I think bitcoin poker will grow and the games offered will be better) along with a few others. I do play on another anonymous poker site (Bovada) where I play $.25 (sb) $.50 (bb) games and I beat that for a solid wr.  

I understand that there are gambling degenerates out there with poor RoR management that are willing to roll over on a debt, but like most bad things in the world, these people represent a minority of the (poker) population. My original goal was to establish a line of credit (trust) with someone with a good amount of BTC and prove dividends so that if games on seals (or any other bitcoin poker site) ever do get to the point of player liquidity (like the mainstream sites) that I can play bigger games and have as many BTC readily available as needed (which equates to larger dividends for the investor).  Unfortunately, since bitcoin poker is in its infancy, poker staking sites do not have investors with readily available BTC.  Perhaps, I am ahead of my time here or perhaps bitcoin poker will never make the mainstream. However nonetheless, I found it important to create trust (win shares of dividends for loaner) on a smallish loan. It's like giving someone free money.  The proof is in the math above.

You never answered my question. Are you willing to provide a copy of your ID, proof of income, phone number and address? It's a perfectly legitimate question.

You could also try your luck on btcjam (https://btcjam.com/).

I hope you don't consider this post as trolling.  ::)

I am willing to do whatever is appropriate.

No, your quote previously reads:


which clearly states it's impossible to lose.


I think your confused about the words "impossible" and "improbable". They are a Pacific ocean of difference apart.

Since the beginning of time, many a foolish gambler believed they found the magical formula that will beat the system and pave the way to unthinkable riches. As history as proven, most end up in the gutter.
Your not the first and you won't be the last.

Let me introduce you to a little secret. (whisper in ear) "The magical formula doesn't exist."

I guess my last 6 years of tax returns prove nothing  ::)

gee, I should stop playing poker effective immediately, supporting my kids' college funds, and new car payments because Buffer Overflow uttered that no "magic formula" exists. Boy, what have I been doing with myself these past years? How foolish to think that I can continue to win with such a large RoR on my overall bankroll of 0.00000000006682%  

I guess I should attend the nearest gamblers anonymous meeting.  I am such a fool.

Mr. Crooked made so much money over the last 6 years, that's why he's requesting a loan!

My lie'o'meter detector has just exploded.

LOL  :D

Reality of situation: Lost all money at poker and now broke.



No comment. (But you can guess what everyone is thinking.)

Dude, you couldn't possibly make a bigger ass of yourself.

Three words:

Pot.
Kettle.
Black.

LOL  ;D

+2 BTC since you started your trolling a couple of hours ago.

Dude, get a life and stop trolling people.

How come you label everyone a troll when 'awkward' valid questions about your loan request come your way?

You claim your some hot-shot gambler. But also request a small loan for gambling, which suggests your gambling isn't going to well and/or you cannot manage your money properly?

The story doesn't add up. Please explain in your next post this, without insulting comments, avoiding the question or causing a distraction by mumbling about standard deviations.

Yes, you weren't trolling here. My bad. How could I ever think that? Oh, and I don't see a question at all.

I requested a small loan because I doubt my chances for asking for 500 BTC are any good.  If I had asked for that, would you have not trolled me, or would you have trolled me worse?  Shouldn't a new member build trust by paying off small loans and work its way up?  Or did I miss the memo on how things work around here?

My "gambling" is and has always gone well. 

I already left you a link to the way loans work around here.

Maybe you should read the posts given to you instead of thinking up new ways to insult people.


I don't buy that. If this were true, you will never need a loan. Red scammer flag raised and flying high.

Roger, over and out.

Did you miss the part where I said I didn't need a loan or did you miss the part where I rescinded my loan request?

Look buddy, I truly don't want to insult you, but you're being a dick without cause. 

Lock the thread! Scuttle elsewhere!

I have no intentions of scuttling anywhere. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy.

Loan request rescinded.  Y U STILL HERE

I am a member of this site. I am not going to stop being a member because you say "scuttle elsewhere".  Seriously, your intimidation attempt is weak sauce.

I mean this thread in particular. (Duh)

**edit**

Intimidation attempt?  WTF, I am not Liam Neeson you didn't abduct my daughter and I haven't told you about all my skills acquired during a long career of being a secret agent yet--so no intimidation is involved--really.

Lock it up. I don't care.

I was only humoring Mr. Overflow with his narrow minded and ignorant views/comments.

Ok, so you don't require a loan to gamble because over the past 6 years your gamblings skills have been so good that you made a decent amount of money.
Luckily you are not in the reds where you would need to scam others to pay your open debts.
Appearantly you only want to build up your reputation here by asking for smaller loans first and repaying them with a nice interest.
Bascially, all off that is nothing wrong.

So, I offer to lend you 10btc for 15btc.
In return, I ask for a 20btc deposit as a security.

Since you cannot lose any money according to your statements, this is a win-win situation for both of us.

Sounds good, after all you are just hoping to build rep correct?

That proposal doesn't seem right to me. Your asking for a staker's ROI % vs. a loaners ROI % and requiring a double deposit. I would be taking too much risk in that scenario.  If you want to do a micro loan without deposit and such a high ROI, I suppose I'd be willing to do so to prove myself credit worthy.

 ::)

Look, my child wants me to go play with her and being the father that I am I am going to oblige her request. (Must be a shocker for Mr. Overflow that a gambler would stop gambling to spend time with his family).  If you want to send me a different proposal through direct messaging, I will read it when I get back in a few hours.

Classic scammer.

High ROI? Your own topic says "10 BTC  for 15 BTC in return".
1. you send me 20btc as a security deposit
2. I loan 10btc to you
3. you return 15btc
4. I send back the 20btc security to you

Sounds all right to me. That way only I could ruin my reputation, and because you have a failure-proof strategy you are 100% planning to pay back.

Well yes the topic does state that, but if you've read through the thread you would see why that doesn't apply.

However, you obviously have some sense as you have considered making money off of me, so I offer these starter agreement solutions:

I will accept 5 BTC for 7.5 BTC (2.5 BTC profit) as a staking offer.

or

I will accept 5 BTC for 6 BTC (1 BTC profit) as a repayable loan.

I'm not playing a lot of Poker, but as far as I know a stake can mean a total loss if the player fails (depending on the agreement with the backer); so I'll pick the safe route and offer 5 for 6 as a loan.
However, if you promise a full repayment of the 7.5btc in case of a stake, I'll offer this one too of course.
Since you halfed the requested loan/return, I'll also half the security deposit.
Send 10btc to 1P6C6JEZPCBqbExxeXmCeHQPoLemfuyyWP and let me know where I should send the 5btc to.

Thank you for the interest but we are at an impasse. Since I have never had a security deposit on the dozens of stakes in the past, I don't plan on going this route.  I do respect and understand where you are coming from though, however at this time I shall pass.