Bitcoin Forum

I have read around some and cant find much that isnt a few years old.

Im new to BTC and was going to keep a few hundred $ worth on blockchain.info to spend and then invest in a few thousand $ in an offline manner.  Is a paper wallet the best bet?  I am not very tech savvy.  Also where is the best exchange to buy from?  Thanks in advance.

just multisig, cold storage is so 2011

I do not think a paper or multisig wallet is your best option. The most secure way to hold your bitcoin and still conveniently make transactions is by using a bitcoin hardware wallet for bitcoin cold storage, which is keeping the private keys of your bitcoin offline and safe from theft. Cold storage used to require two computers, some still do it that way but hardware wallets like Trezor and Ledger are the way to go. I have used all of them and prefer Trezor. Suggest you take the time to read the Trezor user manual (http://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-user/index.html) and see if you like it also.

With what wallet and is it easy to do?


Id definitely spend the $100 and get that as long as it is easy/simple to use.  Is that pretty much the best option? How much better is it than multisig?

Copy your encrypted wallet.dat onto multiple USB sticks, and put them in safes, and leave one off-site with a trusted family member - Do not share your password with anyone.

I do not care for multisig wallets. I want to take sole possession of the private keys to bitcoin I own. With a Trezor when you set it up you are given a 24 word seed. Store that seed in a safe place and you can stomp on your Trezor or lose it and recover your bitcoin with no problem. Trezor has been available for two years now, well tested and reviewed.

Thats just over the top, not even the most gifted people can do this.

There are people who can memorize books, perform big math in their brains, but this is just too much for even them.

I'm still perfectly content with paper. I wouldn't trust flash memory or my brain.

But flash memory and brain is fire resistant (if you dont put it near fire)

Paper can easily burn if you have a house fire.

There are many electric items in my house that can catch fire anytime, I dont want it to burn down my private key.

lulz

You can get fireproof envelopes for storing lipo batteries. They're designed to contain an explosion. Is flash fire resistant? I woulda thought you'd have a bit of difficulty accessing anything if all the plastic surrounding it had turned to sludge, that's if you manage to find it in the first place.

My flash stick is metalic, and it has a metal cover, i doubt it would burn , but i dont know if the heat would destroy data.

Thats why i keep it in another metal box with insulation to not get heated. Its better that way.

if i were you, Id just stick to paper wallets.They're so simple yet so secure, only way someone will steal yoour coins is if they get a hold of that paper. and if you're scared of fires and stuff like that. just back up your wallet on a usb and store it in your bank locker.

There arent bank locker services at nearby banks.

There are no banks in my city that offer this service. I`d have to go to another city to find a bigger bank that do that.

Safe deposit boxes are a dying breed everywhere. I can't think of one within 50 or more miles of me.

If you create your private keys on a compromised networked computer, it doesn't matter how many of them you create. ;)

Yep people dont have any more capital to protect, only debt.

People are too dumb to protect their capital, so they dont have any, only debt.

In my opinion, Trezor would be your best choice if you're going for a most secure hardware wallet. The only downside is that it does cost over $100.

Multisig is an address which starts with 3 and it only spends the coin from the address if n-of-m of the keys are signed. It does prevent against both physical and malware attacks. Do place them in different geographical locations. Create the wallet using an open-sourced offline script Don't sign them all at one computer as this would expose n of the keys to the attacker.

touche

if you are investing a few thousand dollars, it would be worth it to purchase a trezor

I will most likely buy a trezor.  How serious do I need to be in the meantime?  Lets say I buy 5k BTC tonight, is it foolish to keep it in Blockchain until I receive the trezor?

I reckon so. The machine you access it with will always be a weak point in terms of security. Almost anything is better than that. You could create a paper wallet right now or if you have a mobile phone there are some good wallets like Mycelium for android or Breadwallet for IoS. There are also desktop wallets like Electrum.

A week or two ago price per coin was almost $100 usd cheaper. i know the feeling of fomo, but going in heavy right now while price is surging is not best strategy imo. perhaps dollar cost averaging buying smaller amounts weekly or monthly? just something to consider. please also note about change address if you use paper wallet

Blockchain is a ledger. Blockchain.info is a service.

Blockchain.info is very weak in terms of security. They would allow anyone to download your encrypted wallet if the wallet ID is entered correctly if you don't have any 2FA. It's slightly more secure with 2FA but inside attacks is still possible. I would go for hardware wallet or at the very least offline paper wallet of I were to buy 5k BTC.

Is there a good link to read more on multi-sig? Trying to educate myself as much as possible.

I know, I was meaning to get into BTC a few weeks ago, and of course it starts surging.  What would be the point of cost averaging?  I have extra USD sitting around that I want invested in something.


I meant the blockchain.info wallet.  So if I order the Trezor tonight, In the meantime what is the best course of action and which wallet should I be using?

You spread your outlay over multiple price levels. It may explode or sag back to the mid 200s. No one can guarantee anything but cost averaging smooths out those bumps.

Personally I would not store more than one bitcoin in any online wallet. If you order a Trezor tonite and choose DHL shipping you will have it in two or three days.

spend it all now asap, next bubble will have us @ 2k usd per btc by end of November. Bitstamp, okcoin, huobi, bitfinex, etc

Trezor or Armory, I think.

Don't ever use blockchain.info wallet. If you're going to order Trezor, the best choice was to choose a SPV client like Multibit and Electrum. Arguably Bitcoin Core would be the best choice but it would be more viable over the long term, not the short term. It takes too much time to synchronize.

Is it safe to use Electrum while I wait for Trezor?  And which exchange should I buy from?

Yes, that should be safe.

Hate to have to ask, but when I google trezor there are two sites with it.  One is https://www.bitcointrezor.com/  and the other is satoshilabs.com/trezor/  is it the same thing?

Edit: There also is an electrum.com and electrum.org.  I DLed the wallet from the .org, hope im ok.

i think that simple paper wallet is best method. print private key, wipe all online existence.

http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/multisig.html

&

http://blog.coinkite.com/post/102291566521

is  a good start.

I recommend and use a Hardware wallet, Trezor, Keepkey or Ledger.

Nice guide thank you for this.

Yes. Electrum is an open sourced wallet with no vulnerabilities and is fairly fast. However, it is a SPV wallet and does have a downside like all clients. It trusts the miner to enforce Bitcoin rules. When miners mined a block, the full node will check whether it follows the network rule and if it follows the rule, accepting it only if it does. If a few miners mined blocks with invalid rules, your SPV client will accept it as valid while others will not. If the network had a rule change on block version, this problem would exist with older Bitcoin Core versions which is not aware of the rule change.

It isn't a too serious issue right now. The most serious one was with

I second that and would suggest using the multi-sig feature of Electrum (which uses a 2fa) for additional security.
That would actually be adequately secure for most users who don't own a hardware wallet

I personally like to keep it in the form of a paper wallet. It is hidden in a secret place :).

i will really not trust on a usb on multiple usbs if your usb fell from your hand to the ground there are many chances its not gonna work or they got corrupted and a usb can anytime as to remove all data to open the folder i have faced many shits with flash drives

for me its paper wallet i find it more secure and again its depend how much you gonna store in there

Indeed, fires aren't that rare these days.

Also the one who suggested memorizing your whole private key and address, come on. That's even worse, who knows what could happen in 2-10 years. You could hit your head, get a concussion, get blackout drunk, get a disease, whatever that could make you forget your address and key.

I dont know but isnt STORJ a good place to store your private key?

You can double encrypt it, and then upload it there, and it will be encrypted again. Triple encryption is impossible to break.

And then for safety reasons you can change your address and send the money to new funds every 2-3 years.

So I made  my first purchase on Coinbase and it limited me to $500.  I verified my ID and my credit card.  Is there any other way to get more BTC sooner?  I dont want to wait the 3 days or whatever it is.

You could also open an account at Circle.com.

I made a fairly basic brain wallet a couple of months ago and the BTC is still there.

Thanks, just did that.  Are Circle and coinbase pretty much the two to stick with?

hard to say "best".

use a hardware wallet for a part of your coins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=899253.0

hardcode private key into an ingest-able micro computer and fuse with main brain frame, just turn your wifi off to make offline

You could also check out Gemini (https://gemini.com/) and Coinsetter (https://www.coinsetter.com/).

Use an "M-DISC"

@OP

Hard to disagree with the advice quoted above ^^

Personally I use a number of ways to store my bitcoins, I don't like to leave anything to chance & if something fucks up I don't want to lose my entire stash.

Do some research on a Trezor (a must have imo).

I would write down my private keys and put it into a safety deposit box in some obscure small town bank.

That is what I have done.  The hardware wallets I use (Ledger Nano and Trezor) are not that hard to figure out.  LiteCoinGuy has a fantastic thread there which examines many options available now, from cheap to expensive.

And more hardware wallets are coming.

What is this service and how I can be sure that my coins are safe with them? I thought that any online wallet or deposit is generally considered not viable method of keeping your coins.
As service, site or deposit can be hacked, and probably will at some point.

I don't think Circle offer a dedicated storage service like the Xapo vault and Coinbase's similar service. I know that both of them are insured for hacks at their end, I assume Circle is the same. There's still no way I'd keep decent amounts anywhere like that. I think Circle introduced limits on how much you could withdraw recently. They're moving more towards a USD layer on top of Bitcoin.

I don't think Circle has a place in this thread, to be honest.

Thanks omahapoker. Appreciate the insight.

I just shut down my Gemini account. I hope they can get it figured out but in the starting period I'm going to sit it out instead. Got an email from them talking about security issues and having to ramp up a lot of their security measures. Not something they should have shared directly with a customer. They also did not stick to their advertised time frames (deposit, verify, etc.). I'm sure they'll work out the kinks and I'll be back but like I said earlier, going to wait it out.

in the future i know i would use instead of an usb or something else, a ssd with m.2 technology, or an evolution of it, they last longer and have better speed, while remaining very easy to connect

Copy you wallet.dat on USB and put USB into some bank.

The other option is use an old offline laptop, if you need more frequent access to your coins.
However, the laptop needs to be offline ALL THE TIME, besides few minutes when u send coins. Also, in this case you need backup as well so probably the best option would be combination of these two.

For convinience a backup wallet.dat and Bitcoin Core would be very secure and my recommended method to keep them safe.
Of course you can also use cold storage options like a paper wallet or download wallets that provide those capabilities such as Armory.

Paper/brain wallet. No other methods. Because every device having the possibility to affect by the virus even that device doesn't ever connected to the internet. http://www.virusresearch.org/computer-virus-using-inaudible-sound-waves-to-transmit-data/

No matter what, you would still expose your device to an offline or online device to sign and broadcast transactions. Brainwallet is quite insecure nowadays and would have very little entropy compared to a paper wallet generated with bitaddress.org.

I got a Trevor on the way should be here today or tomorrow.

Now im stuck waiting with no ability to get more BTC since I capped out my $500 and $300 on CB and Circle.  Procrastinating cost me a lot of money here.

Ebay, some of the prices are quite reasonable and maybe cheap atm considering the price jump

Wallet is all the best and i recommend to use blockchain.info for safe and secure your BTC !  :)

You made the right choice, you will like the Trezor. Have you looked into getting an account set up at Gemini (https://gemini.com/)?

At current the best available options for everyone are paper wallet and core wallet with strong password while your machine must be protected with some well reputed antivirus.I am using these methods successfully so far and it is working flawlessly for me.

Disable sound card from BIOS.

Take out the network card.

Easy.

I agree on the paper wallet for most of the users, but core wallet is simply too slow to be used for fast sync and transfers imho, and i would always choose electrum over it.
In regards to strong password and good antivirus; don't trust them too much because many new trojans won't even get detected, no matter what AV you use. People just use crypters that hide virus from
definitions/markers that AV uses to recognize them. It's always better to be careful on what you are doing, installing,clicking.. than to just rely on your AV to protect you.

Multisig seems more manageable

Thast is not a cold storage wallet. Its just a way to keep your bitcoins more secure. But also has certain risks. Paper wallet is the best way to go for cold storages.

I was considering buying a keepkey hardware wallet, i havent done much research into hardware wallets, but ready through these posts im gonna have a quick google about "trezor" wallets.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Keepkey-Your-Private-Bitcoin-Vault/dp/B0143M2A5S/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1446687004&sr=8-4&keywords=bitcoin+wallet

Trezor is probably the most known hardware wallet. Wouldn't suggest going with any theird party ones for now. That one seems fairly new, and people posting the reviews did so end of october.

I did not because someone posted ITT saying they are still new and has some security issues.

USB sticks are surprisingly resistant. One cheap one that went into the washing machine in a jeans pocket still work like nothing happened. :o

One should have over 20 back ups of their wallets.

No questions asked.

Ha ha ha.  I thought I was the only one who thought that way.  :)

Actually, I keep only three copies, they should be safe enough.

I DO keep SEVEN copies of our sales database though...

Priorities!

Do you guys BIP38 your paper wallets?

I do. BIP38 is a important feature in paper wallets. It protects against theft of your Bitcoin and is relatively hard to crack if you use a strong one. However, you do have to remember the password. The best practice is to write it down and keep it somewhere safe.

It's not safe to write down your passphrase. Then it's like you don't even have it. I rather make and remember my passphrases as a sentence, and I add a few symbol characters. So with a password of 30+ chars it gets uncrackable in my lifetime. Which is OK :D

There are various illness which can cause the loss of memory, you would not be able to remember the passphrase if you do lose your memory. :(

The attack the paper wallets are most susceptible to is physical theft. The person would have to first get your encrypted private key first before even try to crack it.

Ended up signing up for Gemini.  Waiting on the bank confirmation but so far I like the dashboard and they allow wires.

Ah, I like to think I'm still young enough not to forget my passphrases :D
And your paper wallet is still not usable to someone who steals it if the key is BIP38-d. So, make a few encrypted backups and you're good to go.

So I got my Trezor all set up now.  Is that all I need or are people backing up a Trezor with additional methods?

That's pretty much all you need. As long as you don't lose the seed, you would be able to restore all the keys with it. Keep it somewhere safe.

 I lost .5 BTC not writing it  down.....

it's really bad plan to do that.

Write it down in 3 pecies and put them in 3 different spots or something.. not writting it down is a great way to see them gone forever.

Note that your PIN protects your bitcoin from theft in case your Trezor is lost or stolen. However, there is no protection if anyone gets your 24 word seed in the proper order unless you also use passphrase encryption. Using a wallet behind a passphrase on a PIN protected Trezor is as secure as it gets. The wallet you use is really of little consequence. The myTrezor web wallet works fine as does latest Electrum.

A privacy issue for some is the fact that Trezor will export your xpub to myTrezor and Electrum servers when you connect to them. If that is a concern you could run your own Electrum server or wait until a wallet that requires a full node like Armory has Trezor support.

I am for some reason extremely paranoid of storing in paper wallets long term. I have the feeling that I would eventually screw up. That I would lose the paper, unless I did a ton of copies or something. But something could happen, like a flood, or some guy going into my house and stealing it or something. With digital copies, you can have thousands of copies anywhere you like, and encrypted and hidden so they don't even show up as a wallet file.. seems more safe to me than some piece of paper.

You can store a BIP38 encrypted "paper" wallet as digital copy (image, text document, PDF) too.

I would still choose paper wallet. Multisig is problematic because you could forgot where are your "parts" of private key.
Laminated paper wallet is best solution there is

How is it not safe? If you don't write it down you run a serious risk of forgetting it. If you write it down on a random page in a book on your shelf someone is hardly going to find it. I would even go as far as to copy private keys as well just incase something fucks up.

To prevent such damage from theft or natual disasters, use a reinforced safe that is both water and fireproof. You can encrypt your paper wallets too, no problem, there is even a BIP on that. With digital copies, it is much more suseptible to corruption and theft. Even with the wallet files renamed, it is still a very expensive method.

You end up at risk of losing everything if something bad happens to you. Better write it down or have it printed, then store in air tight sealed container then lock it up in a safe. At least you can have your kin to inherit it someday. :)

Who is going to know the key to your safe then? Just use a multi-signature address and give it to a few of your kins and it is harder for any of them to steal and easier for them to find.

Depends how close you are to your family. I'd probably trust my immediate family - but I don't know my extended family that well so I wouldn't put it past them to collude and steal and just claim ignorance.

Best solutions are cold storage (if you plan on using them sometime in the relative short term i.e 6 months) or just multi-signature if you don't need them anytime soon (i.e. couple of years all the way to your lifetime). If you have a soft copy that should always be encrypted and if your having a paper wallet in a non-guaranteed safe location then BIP38 is pretty necessary IMO.

Bank Vault. Paper Wallet. With brother as a co-sign if I get hit by a truck.

If the bank sinks into a sinkhole or a volcano erupts under it or something, well then the cyrpto gods hate me ..and that will be that :)

So it works as long term holder...this works OR  if it it don't work and/or in 10 years then I can look at those paper wallets and sigh..
.....much like "Beanie Baby Collectors" look at their faded 'collection"

Of course if that happens it means the BANKS win and we have 'closed virtual currency' ...75 buck fees etc on money that they now use 1/10th
the infrastructure for and move $$$ around...that could end badly....they'd be 'trillionaires' if they are billionaires now that is..ie they win ...open crypto loses that is :(

You just KNOW fees etc would stay the same! All that money! No cost to move it! WIN!

The only trouble that Banks and Finance have with Bitcoin and Crypto is 2 fold:

1) They did not think of it first.

2) It was not patented. If it was patented.they could find out who controlled it, even if they did not invent it, and make him an offer he could not refuse for that kinda money :)

(ie convo: Banks to Satoshi ..How would you like to own your own Space Station to visit ..hell they'd still be $$$$ ahead under such a scenario) (er i digress)...

Heh just slammed banks and my paper wallets are in bank..no biggie IRS already knows about my mining that ship has sailed ) :(

Anyway no fuss, no mess ..if the bank gets hit by meteorite..well the ASIC Miner Gods hate me..proof enough :) Anyway how I do it.

What do you think of installing the desktop wallet on an external hardrive and keep it always offline in a drawer then get it online only for occasional use ?

well I know all is just that bitcoin is a super currency in which you can keep your everything secret no one will be able to know how much bitcoin you have and how much you spent and where you spent now there are a lot of hardware wallet that are being use for the security of the bitcoin so I think if you will keep your bitcoin save in a wallet then you do not need to be worry, you can keep it where ever you want for long time.

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The blockchain wallet is more secured and reliable than any other wallet, because it has strong personal password and other mains of authentication when login, secondly, in times of alt-coin trading, the competition is too high, but very cool to trade on, i prefer using LATOKEN PLATFORM, on my trading.

There really is nothing more secure than simply printing your private key on paper, and then hiding it somewhere nobody will ever find.

encrypt it first, and then memorize the encryption key to make it extra secure.

Or if you can memorize it using the memory palace or Loci method, then even better.

As for exchnage, try coinbase pro or some dex.

Just order a blank Military ID Tag (Dog Tag) from Amazon (or something similar) and etch your paper wallet key on it and keep it in a safe place. It won't burn up in a house fire.

Crypto wallet is required to enter Bitcoin, or other digital assets. Before you consider trading cryptocurrency on the exchange or buying a cryptocurrency from a broker, you must understand what a cryptocurrency wallet is and how it works. The cryptocurrency wallet consists of two elements - private key and public address. Cryptocurrency holders use their private key to access their wallet. This private key is all that is needed to access the wallet, so if it falls into the wrong hands, chances are the funds it contains will be lost forever. A public address is given to other cryptocurrency users to receive funds, and is generally given as text or as a QR code.
Cold wallet is a wallet solution that is not connected to the internet, or a solution that can be disconnected from the internet. This wallet usually comes in the form of a software wallet, which can be installed on a computer or smartphone, or a hardware wallet, which is a safe device specifically designed for cryptocurrency storage. Hardware wallet is the safest solution for storing digital currencies.

I am sure that if a person is still not familiar with the concept of a cryptocurrency wallet, then it is too early for him to think about trading in a cryptocurrency market.  You need to initially examine all the information and for this you need to use bitcointalk and possibly YouTube.

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It could also be ledger nano wallet, those that are classified as hardware wallet, those that are outside of the internet. Since it will make your money safe and secured. Or else, you can convert your wallet to QR code and print it as hardcopy. Later on, you can take a picture of your wallet and manage your investment or assets. I don't think cold storage will still work efficiently at this time. You could find new and possible secured storage, some are just getting implemented.