Bitcoin Forum

I am ineterested on how to wash your coins. By that I mean that I get my coins inn a new address but untraceable?

It is not that I am doing something wrong. I am just interested.

Different tumblers and mixers do exist but people claim that these are not 100% sure, that they don't work 100% as advertised. This what you want to do is actually quite hard to do, as the address trail will almost always be left somewhere.

Bitcoin is semi anonymous, it protects your real world info very well if you are careful enough not to attach it to the certain address. Addresses on the other hand are quite hard to hide since they are seen and findable by everyone on the blockchain.

Thank you for the explaining :)
Have you ever used it before?

I think the best way is to have your own Bitcoin exchange. This is why exchanges are under the radar of AML law.

You need some caution with mixing services. It's prime scam territory so check reviews carefully on here before taking the plunge. Another alternative is to deposit coins on an exchange and withdraw. Most of them pool coins in the same address so outputs will be difficult to trace.

Your name of course will be attached unless you use an altcoin only exchange that doesn't require ID. Again, make sure you're using a well regarded alt exchange.

I don't think that's a good idea because you have track everything because of these KYC/AML laws.

Some of the best option are in operating your own (onion) mixer service which is being well-established and trusted. In this case you have full control of the log files created by your own service. If I were a mixer operator which is taking it's own medicine, I would also keep logs for troubleshooting for 7 days but encrypt the logs with an asymmetric encryption scheme like RSA2048.

No, honestly never. I never had any need of it. All that I have written above is from reading and experience of others. I you need more info, I am sure people will share their experiences and you can find everything online by researching and reading various threads.

Exchange them into coins that have privacy features, use said features and then exchange them back to bitcoin.

With cryptonote coins such as Monero (XMR), the mix is built into the protocol. So when you send the coin, it is not traceable. You do not need a mixing service.

Wow, that is really smart :)
I will do that if I need my coins mixed :p

I would recommend bitmixer.io

I have never had a problem with them ever.

It's called tumbling or mixing.

https://bitmixer.io/index.html

A famous site.

If the solution you are hearing is "mixing them" that is a risky proposition because:

1. You have to trust the mixing party will send you coins back

2. You may get more dirty coins (linked to a theft/crime)

You can buy mint coins (comming from miners) with your regular coins?

You're depositing BTC on an exchange and you'd want to withdraw BTC from an exchange. Everything probably ends up in the same hot wallet no matter how many other coins you're running in and out of.

You are Party A. The other party is Party B, a mixer, person or whatever.

You have address A and address B. The BTC is on address A.

Party B has a mixer where you send bitcoin to address C and (effectively) a separate source of bitcoin ends up coming out of address D. In reality, address D could be a large source of addresses.

You send your BTC from address A to address C, where the mixer mixes it for their own use for other things. You then get bitcoin from a separate source of mixed bitcoin (without the bitcoin you sent to address C) which goes from address D to address B. Therefore you have moved the BTC from address A to address B and mixed it, or "washed" it.

i pass them through an old zx spectrum basic system :P

You can put it through a bitcoin tumbler such as bitmixer. They will take a small fee though.

Seconded.  I have used bitmixer.io many times just to keep my own BTC trail more private.  They have always treated me right.

Once I had a problem (my fault, but not scam, an honest reparable mistake), and they fixed me up after I proved my case.

Highly recommended.  Their fee is a semi-random amount (more or less your choice) of between 0.5% - 1.0%.

Do follow the instructions!

User some mixers like bitmixer.io for untracable. If you don't trust the mixers, then send your coins to any exchange or a gambling site (don't play that) and withdraw to another bitcoin address after the transaction was confirmed. That's it you'd done :)

Isn't this in a way laundering your bitcoins?
 :D

whatever happened to darkwallet ?

Never heard of it, thought it might be a client for darkcoin.

Bitmixer.io

But I'd be careful how much you announce your intent. It's not impossible for people to discover who you are through your posts and username.


Ummm, yes.

It is quite hard to not leave a trail. The KYC is very extensive nowadays. Isn't it just better to change on an exchange site and then buy back more Bitcoins?

If you mix your coins through an exchange? And transfer the balance to another account, will this leave any trail?

Regards,
Fruitsbasket

I am not too sure that you can "wash" your coins. There is no way to anonymously move your bitcoin from 1 account to another, there will always be a record of you sending the Bitcoin.

It's rather hard to do so. If you use Bitmixer, your coins would be mixed with other coins but it is possible to see the taint from their wallet. They do provide the time delay function which could in theory help to prevent against blockchain analysis. Even though they say that they don't keep logs, they may be secretly keeping them, don't trust their words too much.

IMO, the best way to get a completely clean coin is to pay a miner premium to mine a newly generated coin for you.

Looks like you are experienced do that  ;D
And yeaaa many times i do like what you said above. Its work my coins gone random and untrackable.

Why would you be interested in something like this if you re not doing something wrong?

yupp mostly people need this kind service to hide their evil activity. i hope there is no illegal activity around here. its bad to bitcoin .

Instawallet used to be the best thing for getting new coins...

I think their source code is still online somewhere. Basically, you would deposit BTC into a given address, and when you was to send some BTC out of your Instawallet, you would get entirely different BTC.
All for free.

Why not? Many users won't want their total assets to be known as this could compromise their safety or they just do not want others to track their spending activities.
Instawallet is probably a shared wallet AFAIK. Their security wasn't great and was compromised. Even if they still have the source code, you have to get more users to use it for it otherwise, it is fully traceable. You can do the same with any other shared wallets like Xapo.

Yeah, so shared wallets. It's cool. Why not use it instead of mixers? I'm guessing Xapo has a wide userbase...

It's not cool at all. It shouldn't be used for long term as it isn't in your control at all.

Mixers does offer at least a guarantee that your coins are mixed without taint or delete logs. Most shared wallets do not make these claims and majority of them requires verification or are registered businesses. This means that they could supply information to the government.

This is another thing then. I haven't used shared wallets lately. I had no idea they needed verification these days.
Instawallet was completely anonymous.

Some needs verification (e.g. phone numbers) if they are registered businesses. Still, they can't qualify as a mixer. Mixer is to hide your origin from your destination. With shared wallets, both your origin and destination would be known by the service. They can keep a log on this too.

why did you take OP as wrong? He just wanted to keep his privacy.

Everyone will try to keep their privacy. Even you too didn't put real name as username. Because why? So, you're doing something illegal here?

exactly this, if you just want to made it in a faster way since you just need to send then to an exchange and "sell and buy" them, i think that this is a really nice option and one of the fastest one, without any previous knowledge.

"privacy" always be good excuses yeah.
mafia need a privacy.

You can mix your coins on services that do it, or if you want bitcoins with few transactions you can buy it from miners.

Why do you want to wash your coins, is the next question...

its always traceable

The problem with mixers and tumblers is they are centralized. You are basically trusting that they will not keep logs and hand those logs when asked for by the feds or whatever. So if OP is doing something "fishy", i wouldn't 100% trust mixers.

I'm surprised no one mentioned JoinMarket:

• https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116.msg10096563
• https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket

Cash it first and then buy the Bitcoin again.
Also don't use just 1 address, share it to many addresses.

It's not wholly traceable if you use a mixer that actually works properly. The only thing that could be gathered from your transactions from the address you send from is that you did actually mix your coins, if someone is able to identify it as being obviously mixed.

i find some ilegallity into this but if govs do not promote crime why not go on to govnermets or its like commies into you parties?

Exactly. This. Bitcoin is not not anonymous (http://www.bitcoinisnotanonymous.com/) and these are the issues people need consider.

Also, by mixing you can end up with coins which are dirtier  than your original ones. There is also chance that mixers or similar services are run or by feds, as they now ppl with dirty coins will try to go to them.

it's never traceable actually, if you don't attach your name on something that you need to buy and ship to your address

for gaming for example there is no trace left, mixer is useless in that case

How do you cash it? Do you do that in exchanges? Then the exchange will have your information. The exchange will also know which address you send the bitcoin t.

For the same reasons you would want your banking transactions private. With the blockchain anybody can view your transactions if they know your addresses. This is not so with your banking transactions, where the authorities can only view them with a court order. So to protect your blockchain transactions from being analyzed by the whole world some form of obscurity is required.

A simple way to do this without taking too much risk is to open a localbitcoins account and deposit some BTC there. After sometime, withdraw them to a different address/wallet.

Well the thing is how you wanna to wash your coins ,using an exchange and creating a new account would easy give no trace where the bitcoins went.

Just curious about what you can do with bitcoin, like: store them, use dor illegal activitys, buying and selling.
So I am just interested in how bitcoin works, and why it works that way.

About half of the people who wash their coins are trying to launder them or not be connected to activities related to scamming, while the other half are genuinely just looking for privacy and do not want to be traced through their transactions, especially for large transactions of thousands of BTC.

Wallets or the Bitcoin program need to have interior blockchains, built right in, where you can convert the bitcoins from one of your addresses to another, newer, address... right inside your own wallet or program. The interior blockchain would keep you from duplicating coins.

:)

Just look at my signature ;)

a way to make no traceable

bitcoin addresse  A     to exchange account 1  buy dash   to darkcoin wallet A

use the darkcoin mixer in the wallet   send to you second darkcoin wallet B

then send to exchange account 2 and withdraw to btc to you btw wallet B


in place of dash  you can use an other coin with mixer or similar
or simply buy more different coins  if you have a lot

you also need to use 2 different ip for you exchange website,using tor is possible

you can also put your wallets on the Tor network (using the proxy)

(you can also make more than 2 wallets and send dash to them, but you also gonna need more accounts on exchange)


never do all of that one 1 computer because you probably gonna forget to change you ip or you accidentally login on your second exchange with ip used for exchange 1 ...

use at lease 2 computers

Yes. The exchange would be able to trace it. However, you can use an alt coin exchange and exchange it into an alt coin, cash it out on another exchange. While using different VPN IPs. It is slightly risky due to the volatility, but it is still better than mixers.

What happens if I deposited on cryptsy then withdraw this can be tracked? I saw what as soon as I deposited, my bitcoins left my address (on exchange) and when I withdraw they come from others addresses.

Use a mixer?

Using mixer you can end up with coins dirtier than your own, as others also want to mix their own possibly "dirty" coins.

Yes basically. Exchanges moves the coins to a central address for storage or use it directly from the address to fund the withdrawals of other users. They can still be traced by the exchange as they can and most probably have kept a log of your deposit and withdrawal transactions.

But they cannot share information right?
That is called the privacy law, or this doesn't count?

There are also a couple of tumblers available on Tor:

bitblendervrfkzr.onion  --- Bitblender

foggeddriztrcar2.onion   --- Bitcoinfog

grams7enufi7jmdl.onion/helix   --- Helix

Note that you need the Tor browser bundle to open these links or use a Linux distribution which has Tor preinstalled such as Tails.
I hope it's allowed to post these onion links here, I'm not trying to promote any illegal activity, just to be clear.

There are many legitimate use case scenario's for tumblers and Tor adds an extra layer of anonymity, if set up right.

I'm not sure about the law but many have to comply with the government's KYC/AML policy. It isn't illegal unless someone finds it out. If the person is involved in some illegal stuff, the police does have the rights to ask for such information. On the contrary, some mixers does delete logs and they aren't legally obligated to hand out such info.

Use exchanger or gambling site is fast way for me  ;D

By law, if the law requires them to hand out information (and the law applies in their territory that is) then they will.
And God knows where/how you information is used elsewhere by the exchange.

Don't use an exchange, just sell it to someone that you'll meet in real life.(Do it too for the buying time, except for this time don't use the same person)

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of mixing your Bitcoin and hide your identity? Your identity will be exposed twice, when you sell and buy. Exchanges does not require identity verification and it is hard to trace anonymous alt coins.

Yes. This is the safest option. Use either Satoshi-dice or Prime-dice, and stay away from the less reputed gambling sites. Most of the mixing sites charge as much as 5% or 10% as fee, while the same with gambling sites can be as low as 0.5% or 1% (on average, the "house edge"). But you should repeat this process two or three times, to make sure that the coins are "properly washed".

Hello,
Do you consider this is safe to do? Can this be traceable by seeing the tx's to the websites/exchangers wallets?

Thanks
Regards

But, there will be just 2 people who know your identity.
Anyway you can ask your friend to buy and sell the Bitcoin tho

House edge affects the bet payout. If the house edge is 1%, the payout would be 1.98x, which in the long run would make the house win by an average 1% of the wagered amount. If you don't bet, the only fees charged is during withdrawal if it does charge a fee during deposit, you should stop using that casino. That being said, use gambling sites aren't always legal in many jurisdiction. They do keep logs too.

I know a few mixing sites. Their fees are like insane. I have seen one of the sites charging as much as 20% as fee. Compared to that the house advantage given for the gambling sites are quite low. Even if you have to wash it three times, on average you are going to lose only around 3% of your total coins. That said, the transaction logs are an area of concern.

You definitely didn't get my point. The house edge does not affect the balance till you decide to bet it. There will be no fees except the withdrawal fees which is minuscule. That being said, mixers does offer more assurance than gambling site. Bitmixer is one of the lower costs ones.

if using a mixing site, isnt it possible that someone elses "tainted coins" could be sent to you, personally i think exchange might be better.

There is nothing wrong with the tainted coins if you can spend it. The coin from exchanges are also tainted.

bitcoin is anonymous so if you use tainted coin, they cannot connect those coin to you, unless you buy something, but if you use them in open bazar or decentralized platform akin to it, in the future, nothing can be done

Unless you are serious crime lord and your coins are all tainted there is little to worry. Even then you can use mixers, p2p trading through middlemen, and other methods to clean your coins.
In the end I suspect probably every bitcoin in existence will be tainted, assuming it have been used before.

Yes true. There are huge amount of coins which are tainted due to robberies or hacks which happened before.

However, companies may reject those kind of coins. For example, Bitpay has allegedly[1] warned the merchant about the blacklisted coins and it makes no sense whatsoever. Almost all the coins are tainted in someway and Bitpay would be marking majority of the legit transactions as a fraud.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting/

I don't get it either... And the more time passes, more and more coins will be tainted somehow.
The exact same thing happens with fiat as well.