Bitcoin Forum

Hello all,

I've good sum of bitcoins, and they represent good sum as well in my local currency.

I was thinking about selling all my bitcoins, lock that fiat money in investing certificates in my bank where I get %12.5 premium per year and buy bitcoins every month (it will take some time to re-buy again all my bitcoins, but not that long, could be 1-2 years as I will include my fiat salary as well).

Or, shall I hold and keep holding ?

If you were me, what would you do and why ?

Thanks in advance.

It depends, how does that contract look like? 12.5% seems good... too good actually. Can you retire your funds at any time or do you need to stay with them whatever happens? I just can't trust long term fiat investments anymore. How many BTC you got?

I can retire the funds after it pass the 6 months freeze period.

The investment is by my local bank here, so it's 101% safe. Even if the bank went broke, the government will must pay us and this is like nearly so difficult nowadays as our economic status is good.

I think it comes down to your outlook for bitcoin price over the next year or so. If your analysis leads you to believe bitcoin price will continue to appreciate at a rate greater than 12.5% per year why sell? Now if it is a question of diversification and you feel too much of your capital is tied up in bitcoin I could understand selling a portion now to diversify into fiat or gold, and pay down debt or mortgages.

If you feel the need to do something, do 50/50.
As you already have been a bitcoin buyer, you are presumably bullish on the price. What do you think Bitcoin will be trading at in a year's time?
What is your local currency and your national economic situation, and how do you see it developing over the short term?
12.5% is globally pretty high in these days of Central Bank money printing, a rate like that implies that there are inflationary aspects to your national economy or weakness in its currency.
It sounds good, but not if inflation eats it up.

The only country that comes to mind paying that is Egypt. I'd stay out of holding too many EGP atm.

My buddy, thanks for your reply.

To be honest, I want to invest my money.

As you know me well, I'm insanely permabull and I know that we can reach $50K and $100K in the coming 5-12 years.

But what I would like to do is the following,

Buy again my frozen BTC while enjoying guaranteed profit per month (%12.5 premium divided by 12 months). As I will buy all the sold BTC again with that profit PLUS my salary profit.

I don't want to diversify my portfolio nor I've any debt to pay.

lets see the current price is roughly 400 usd per bitcoin and i dont expect it to go over 550 by the end of the year, im guessing itll be around 500 so thats a 20% increase in value but theres a chance you take. with the 12.5% investment the profit is guranteed.

You nearly nailed it, but no, I'm not from Egypt.

There is inflation in my country to be honest, and the currency while it's compared to USD, it's really weak.

But as I've mentioned earlier, I want to enjoy some good returns and I insist on buying all my bitcoins again.

I hate 50/50 thing, I would like to do it all in to be honest.


Good two points here

1. The %12.5 is guaranteed.
2. I don't think we will spike that hard to $550 or $600, even if we will reach $600, I could compensate the difference easily.

Good luck whatever you decide, I would just point out the obvious and say that if your fiat inflation is say 10% then your real return is not 12.5%, but 2.5%.
Given your permabull stance, I would stick with Bitcoin personally. Moon, and all that. :)

I totally understand you, but you've missed one or two points,

1. We can't be ultra sure that in a duration of 10-12 years by max. (the duration where I will be holding BTC), that we will not convert BTC to fiat, so we will be forced to use inflated money.
2. I will cover the BTC I've sold in 1-2 years max., so that inflation won't be that big in that duration.

I'm in a mind mess really.

I want a good investment opportunity.

Where can you get a note paying 12.5%? Which bank? I might be interested.



If inflation is 10% per year we'll have much bigger problems to contend with!

Dear Fakhoury, a word of advise:
Thousands of Greeks lost their savings, after the 2012 PSI haircut, which included their "super-duper-guaranteed " government-issued bonds.
There is no such thing as "100% Guaranteed", when banks and governments are involved.
Just HODL!  ;D

Holding is my opinion, if you have the risk appetite.
Investing in Bank Certificates is safe, but you have the risk of missing out on huge bitcoin price movements.  :)

Unfortunately Greeks recent history is not positive in terms of managing their national debt. It was not surprising that government reached out for money of their citizens to help itself.
If you are living in any country with similar problems and suspect that your national currency is not so stable, don't invest in it and don't keep it!
Also history of Cyprus and Greek show, that your money stored in banks are no longer fully yours...

If your bank offer it, you can have an account in South African Rands for example, and get more (indexed on inflation). My Japanese bank offer that (I've never used it though). Because returns on JPY are ridiculously low.

I see numerous comments about Greece in this forum, and the easy thing to say is that "Greeks didn't manage their debt".
The thing is, that you don't really know when the time comes where your country suddenly has a debt problem. Imagine living in a country with a 110% Debt/GDP ratio (a normal ratio nowadays), everything is fine, until one day some EU officials decide that your debt is a problem. And your country suddenly needs a bail-out. Things can go south very fast, if someone decides that your state debt is a problem.

That's exactly what I described in my blog post earlier:
Are your money safe in a Greek bank? Think twice. (http://www.cryptocurrency.gr/?p=24)

I would do just about anything for 12.5% a year! Seems too good to be true

I will advice to sell only few of those Fakhoury. Or to not sell at all (better). That 12.5% you will earn from the investing in certificates will be easily surpassed by another "bubble" like this that happen this last week. The price of bitcoin rose 100% and drop only 50%. So you have (since today) 50% evaluation of your bitcoins only within one week. With to much probability it will be another one event like this (at least) with the halving (if everything goes as must go) and you if will sell your bitcoin you will find yourself with less bitcoin than before if the price of bitcoin will go at least over the 12.5% given by the investing certificates. Percentage which, with the behaviour of bitcoin, is very probable to happen without to much difficulty.

Anyhow can happen even the contrary. With bitcoin no one prediction and reason can be true. It is unpredictable. Now I see for example that the price of it is about 366 us dollar. So about 14-20 us dollar fewer than yesterday. If you sell now and the price goes more down you can earn even from the further drop of the actual price.

But if it were me I wouldn't sell nothing.

Loaning money to your bank is risky. You should instead be deciding which asset to buy -- gold, real estate, bitcoins, etc.

Do you need to put the money all at once? Otherwise you could use your monthly fiat income you would use to rebuy the bitcoin to put in that investment.

What country are you from? Sounds like a European one with the banking guarantee.

Most systems "guarantee" their banks' deposits, I'd be interested to find 12.5% in Europe.

I just look at OP being a permabull and then being locked in to fiat, BTC free, for the next six months and think "Keep the faith brother".

 :)

12.5% is pretty high for premium/interest :-/

If that interest is legit, milk it for all it's worth. Just be wary.

W/ BTC's upcoming halving, I'd say if there is a suuden price jump, quickly sell to fiat. Holding is a good idea unless this happens.

Nonetheless, good luck on your investments!

Well, I made my mind.

I will keep buying and hodling BTC, because as many of you said, we can witness a bubble or another amazing bull market run that can dust away that %12.5 premium easily.

Thank you all for your help, and you are proving for me, that day by day, we are a big lovely family.

Thanks again.

It's depend on how many bitcoin i have.
If i were you, and let's say i have 20 BTC

I will keep it until december, and sell some btc to make investment on (maybe obligation) 12,5% per year.
Just do not put all your "investment money" on 1 place.

I know some people really get addict on bitcoin. But i think is not wise if we invest all our money into btc alone.
You can try to hold Yuan or Euro or maybe dollar (if dollar is not your local currency)

I'd invest in Greece right now. I'd start with small amounts and short maturities. They need the help, i'm willing to take the risk to help them. Now, if only it were easy for me to buy some Greece bonds!

Indeed. I know it may be tempting to put all your coins on one thing, as the potential profit is greatest.

But remember, that the potential losses are just as big in that way. Or the potential missing out if bitcoin surges again later this month.

There are not many people you can get 12% interest (return) with your bitcoin. Do you have idea where to find one?

I would say split up your investment. Maybe half half? Bitcoin has some interest bearing wallets such as HAObtc which maybe worth looking into

I would definitely not sell all my coins. But it is wise to spread your investments if you are worried about not getting the right returns. 12.5% per year is quite a high interest rate, especially for banks. If I were in your position I would simply hold the coins. Bitcoin will give you a much better return than the 12.5% the bank is offering you.

50 : 50 will be good, safe as well as good ROI.

btw 12.5% is just awesome ,twice as much as what we get in our local banks

You only get those kind of percentages when inflation is in those regions as well. You are fooling yourself with a fictive return on investment.

I should invest in such bank if possible.the place where I live we get 6.25 - 6.75 %

Here is also same i can't even get 10% annual interest with fixed deposit in banks. There is already lots of money in banks, not any idea with bank where to invest those.

here with my bank in the netherlands i can't get even 3% per year as fixed deposit. you can get 4 to 5% at most if you let your bank lock your money for 5 years minimum.

Wow why is it so high

Yup bank is a good idea and Janet yellen also announced U.S. banks are incresing their interest for savings accoun.t Rising interest rates mean falling bond prices. Bonds typically pay a fixed coupon, so when prevailing rates rise, the value of your bond portfolio falls until its yield matches what’s available elsewhere on the market. So find Invest on Bitcoin that would be good for us.

If i were you in this situation i would hold the bitcoins.
I would never sent to the bank and getting interest from them.
Or i haven't understood what bank certificates means, is that kind of interest?

same thing here not as bad as your, but we get only 1-2% interest on the best bank with a deposit that must remain untouched for 1 year

12.5 is a great rate. In fact, it's too good to be true. Check if it's legit first. If it's legit, invest, but be wary. That amount of interest is great.

What I can say is you to split the coins in two divisions and then be able to invest them in both the local bank that does fixed investment and the other portion you can use it for speculation reasons or even be able to lend the coins to people who need them at a particular return percentage of interest. Doing so is like having two sources of income and you will be able to grow very first when compared to investing all the coins in a single entity. be a sharp guy and always walk your way to the bank a happy man.

Some swiss commercial banks are starting to give negative interest rates on deposits. Consider yourself lucky.

I don't understand this negative interest rate thing. So If I deposit CHF 1,000,000 in my bank account today, I will be getting CHF 990,000 after one year? This is pretty much retarded as well as insane. In that case what stops me from storing all that cash in a safe at my home, rather than depositing it in the bank account?

That's not really so.
One small Swiss specialist retail bank has said it will do so next year.
Central banks have been charging commercial banks negative rates for some time in Europe, to make them use QE money for the purpose intended, lending to stimulate economic activity, rather than keeping it on deposit to bolster their capital reserves.

Most people realize that baldly quoted high interest rates are meaningless.
The only time you will get more net fiat is when the interest rate received is higher than the real inflation rate. That doesn't happen very often, but if inflation was more negative than the negative borrowing rate, you'd end up with a 'profit' nonetheless.

Strange times: in the UK bank deposits pay dust, but TV ads for payday loans at 1000% apr are legion.

the only problem is I think bitcoin will double when the halving comes. So maybe wait for that
then do it?

Bitcoin is not going to double at the halving. Get real.

speaking of which, we have already seen a double until now, and right now we are at around 80% increase, so when the halving kick in, you're right we won't double, but mostly like do a nice x4 versus the previous value, which was 230...

do not think that the last pump has nothing to do with the halving already, the effect of the halving can enter much early than many believe

Yes, I agree, halving has affected the price already,  but on the other hand I don't think we'll have "x4 versus the previous value" by summer because we already had the effect almost to the full extent. I think the price will be around $500 per coin by summer but not higher than that.

I wish you were right though. )

i don't think it has , cause we don't see any MNC's investing in bitcoins or any other crypto's .
There is no guarantee about price increase and why should there be any ? If price doesn't rises then people will stop mining and difficulty decreases.
However OP i would suggest you to cashout 40% of you coin's holding and invest in whatever bonds you have there.

Well for me I just hold it for now, because I don't have a lot of bitcoin.
Do what is the best for you.

wow 12,5 % of interest yearly in my country are really a lot of money!
here a bank give max a 3% and you have to "lock" the amount for at least 1-2 years!
I think that a "secure" return like this is the best link between risk and ROI... also people from other countries can open an account in this bank?

You are right, and not just that it is related to halving, but one should absolutely hodl and wait for the price rise as investing somewhere with so-called "PREMIUM" won't be much promising as Bitcoin is, the rates have been dumped and pumped loads of times, but one should know when to enter and exit...

You can never be so sure about this. Add 2 or 3 really nice news about Bitcoin until the summer to the halving fact and I am sure an increase all the way to a $1,000 is more than possible!

12.5% premium per year?

Where do you get that? Obviously, you're not living in Europe, nor in America. So must consider how much inflation you get in your country and how your currency fluctuates against the US dollar or some other strong currency. Another thing to consider is that keeping money at the bank can help you getting a loan if you think about buying a property.

You can buy futures with some of your coins and invest the rest in certificates.
This is the most efficient way, but you need to decide on a risk management strategy.
It depends on whether there are local currency instruments available for hedging your position; you would probably have to open a position in the forex market to hedge the value of your local currency versus the USD.
You can decide your risk management based on your expected income and your risk appetite.
For example, if you have 2 bitcoins and you invest 1 bitcoin in futures at a leverage of 2x, you can then use the remaining 1 bitcoin for investment purposes because you are hedging the value of 2 bitcoins and your futures position will gain value as if it was 2 bitcoins even though you only invested 1 bitcoin in futures. However, if the price drops significantly from where you bought the future (about 50%), there is a risk that your futures position will be closed at a loss and you could lose 1 bitcoin unless you deposit more funds to keep your position afloat.
I suggest watching the lessons about futures on Khan Academy to learn more.

I would definitely invest. 12.5% is a very good rate and right now, Bitcoin is steadily rising so you should earn quite a lot. At this day in time, you don't really want fiat. Just invest.

You don't even have the excuse of a signature campaign for posting nonsense.
The 12.5% return means keeping his funds in fiat not Bitcoin.
 ::)

Yeah, we gather that you like it ivan, probably why you've posted it in nine different places.
 ;)

Sorry, it was not my intention to spam. Just love that coin and yes, I ve been a holder for almost 2 years. It has brought me nothing but profits.

hold it and use your salary from real life to buy more bitcoin is an option I think. We can all see that if someone bought bitcoin 2 months ago his investment is doubled right now!

BTW, attention all sig spammers, the OP made up his mind a month ago.

12.5%is pretty high, what currency is this in? Check the health of the currency such as inflation rate and general health of the economy. Usually with high interest rate, there will be high inflation rate. Banks increase interest rates to reduce money supply, i.e incentivise people to stop spending, cushioning the inflation.

Living in China, 12.5 % doesn't sound that high. The P2P lending service that I have been using for 3 + years pays 13.92% (with defaulted loans deducted ). I have been thinking a lot about setting up a fund allowing ppl from overseas to invest in Chinese P2P by using BTC as payment rail.

It is always good to spread out your risk, only you can decide if you want to make this move or not.

This is the thing about Bitcoin... You never know what will happen. Since OP decided to hold, the price of Bitcoin dropped a estimated $50 to $60 ... I

figure he has some doubt if it was a good decision or not. The other side of the coin is, it might just go to double it's value and he would not have had

a single regret that he hodl'ed. Nobody can give sound financial advice with a volatile and high risk commodity like Bitcoin. The risk can pay off or you

could lose a lot of money... nobody knows.  

it might be risky having any investment in fiat money right now , seems like its a crash incoming , but we will not know for sure before it hits , but alot of things point at it , and if that happends the thread starter would go out party like its 1999 when he see hes fiat money become worth less and less and hes btc gain value :)

I can tell you i dont trust  banks,what  country you are from what is your currency
I can tell  you last year btc was best performing currency  to dollar

Blankly you can't say banks won't. He's very sure about the interest.
Sure he can go for the investment, but in the future he can't be able
to buy the bitcoin with the regular interest got from his investment.

12.5% is a lot interesting, but wait, 12.5% net return considering taxes? If yes, i would go on this

I think it is much wiser to preserve and save. Do you know why, because I think the fact later will be worth much more. So it would be a shame if you are going to invest, because that you can lose money with it and you do not want.

me the same :) what are this financial product?
stock option? national bonds? private company stocks/bonds?
Maybe a link :)?!? I am really interested in this type of "exotic" investments.... :P

I think it is sensible to start saving. And will only save spend nothing.
That is smarter and you also earn money because you lose nothing at all.

12.5% is really fishy... That's not a normal rate at all. Especially considering economic situation.

You're sure of yourself? Not fraudulent placements? Litle sentences explaining they're not responsible for anything and won't repay you if it goes bad?

No not considering taxes. Taxes are always complicated depending on your personnal situation, the year, last legislation etc...

Interest rates are always before taxes, it'll depend on how you manage the benefits ;)

I get an interest rate of 7.5% only which is the max offered by any bank (whether ICICI or HDFC). If the bank has some of their own promotional investments, the rate is max 10% while another investment opportunity that offered 15% was not a guaranteed one. If your bank offers you such a good rate and an asssured one, it's worth.

Yeah there are also online banks that make lots of promotion!

But the problem with those banks is that they're not exactly legitimate... They don't really belong to a country and even if they just steal your money, you couldn't do anything :/

I'd say it's not really secure to invest in such banks most of the time! You never know, and here you have no guarantee !

Personally I would not sell the Bitcoin. 12.5% is nice, but I'd try very hard to find the money by some other means rather than sell your BTC.

Also you're saying maybe 1 - 2 years to repurchase all your BTC? At 12.5% per year that means it would take 8 years to see your full return on investment, so it appears your plan would be to repurchase most of your BTC with new money from your salary anyways, correct? Why not just hold the BTC and put your paycheques towards your other idea? Or wait a year, save your money and then invest it at 12.5%?

Bitcoin could move up very quickly and make 12.5% look like nothing. It's very possible that if you sell your BTC now you may never have the chance to buy them all back because the price will make that goal completely out of reach. Perhaps you're talking small quantities and you make high wages, i don't know, but be careful or you'll be kicking yourself hard later!

Yeah, 12.5 is a high rate. Banks usually offer upto 10% or even less. The highest amount is offered to senior citizens and it was about 9.5%. I have only received such a high interest rate for investing in recurring deposits but it was taxed.

Somebody hidden taxes explain the apparent high rates yes xD

But just be sure to invest in a reliable bank (well even if no bank is truly reliable).
And in a reliable domain... Don't go invest in CDO and subprimes like shits... Otherwise you won't see your money again.

holding your bitcoin is more safer than investing them and you will have no acces to them in one yeam for %12.5 so hold them and make more ;)

I absolutely agree with this. Not only you will have no access to your coins during the next year after investing but you might never see them again in the end. So you better hold your coins and the price of them, I hope, will raise more than %12.5 in one year.

Yes but if you go by such logic, you never do anything with your coins!

They'll have to leave their wallet at a moment, else it's totally useless ^.^

I am doing the same now. I sell my bitcoins and earn about 10.5-11% interest every year on the income. I have held 70% of my income in fiat and 30% in bitcoins which I can keep trading and investing which makes my bitcoins remain same in number and the fiat keeps increasing.

Holding bitcoin is always a good idea. Especially if you're planning to hold for more than 5 years.
I'm sure you will take out profits out of it for only holding 1 year.

Yes it is a good idea. I hold most of my bitcoin. And trade a very small amount of bitcoin will other altconis.

I think it will be more worth later, so it is good to invest later in the future. But you never know what can happen.
If the price rise will take a long time you can also have some more money later and than you have a lot of profit.

Make the bitcoins you have for now for 50-50 split. So you will have a guaranteed profit while waiting the value of bitcoin to rose. If your investment is in bitcoin, make it full on premium because it is still bitcoin and you can convert it anytime.

If you didnt sold your bitcoins on that time i m sure you has now almost200%from the previous value ,since bitcoin reached 400 dollars and were around 200on that time,i dont think its the time to sell now as we are aproaching the halving soo the value should jump into600or more ,soo if i were you i would wait a bit more.

It is better to hold mate. I think that is the best option. Or you can take the risk that you also can lose some money.
But I think that both are very good to do. But you never know what can happen later in the future.

It's a great coincidence, my asset currently generates 12.68% ROI /year. It is very close to what you would get with your premium.

And my investments are inside the bitcoin and altcoin sphere.

There is a difference - his investments are almost risk free.
12.7% in widely swinging bitcoin and altcoin sphere is not comforting.

Thats what I was thinking, bitcoin does not rise equally in every country because it depends on demand for your national paper money.   I did not spot which country are we discussing, or which company even do you rely on for 12%

Do half and half, as someone said above he keeps the bitcoin he regularly uses which does seem sensible.  Of course most people use the paper money of their country also so this too is sensible.  Dont place all eggs in one basket :p though Warren Buffet says just watch basket very careful  ;D

why not hold and save it 50:50?
you will get 12.5% premium per month and you will get surprised profit from bitcoin. it's profitable I think

I see, but I hold the funds in BTC and are invested in btc investments. I only convert it back to the original currency when I pay dividends. Thus the exchange risk is minimized.

I think you should wait for halving ends before you invest it to your local bank.. So that you can make profit after halving ends and then invest it to your local bank.. or you can invest your 70% percent of your bitcoin into local bank and 30% just hold it to your wallet..

The best thing that you can do now is hold I think. You never know what can happen later in the future, there will be a chance that it also can be down and that will be not good.
I hope later that more people will have some profit later in the future. And that they also use Bitcoin more

12.5% profit per year is very low profit, better do not invest in that. There are a lot better options Web around with higher profit per year.  ;)

LOL 12.5% guaranteed is low? How is that. Why not tell us about these better opportunities?
I am very curious since 12.5% is a lot while not trading or investing in a venture.

I think investing is very good to do these days, and with your 12,5 % its pretty sweet if you ask me.
Also due to the fact you are doing this yearly you can have a good overview what is going to happen in a year right ?
You are doing a good thing if you doing it on this way, and there is a big chance you will make a lot of profit at the end of your journey.

 
I consider these a wise investment keep the fiat into a great choise,because you get a safe return from the fiat and can get another income from the bitcoin risking the money but taking the extra,or the profit into fiat,and the fact you keep the same ammount in bitcoin and not in value sound a great strategy soo you getting 20% year .

That's a good idea. But for me, better you spare some for investing certificates in your bank and half for emergency use. Maybe someday you need it.

Holding your coins is definitely the best thing to do. If you convert to fiat, you won't earn as much money and I am pretty sure that you want to earn as much money as you can.

Holdint till and before the halving that is near may be one wise choose as speculation is that bitcoin value will grow as we get closer it,soo maybe then you can choose what to do,about sell all coins i wouldnt do .You can sell a part of them to get the 12.5% year from your bank and keep playing with the rest of the bitcoins into the trade or lend services provided here or even at some exchange,but if i were you i would sell all ,atleast not now.

the best thing is just hold your coins. The value is not that high to sell it so that is not smart not to do it.
It is better if you wait a little longer and that you can have also more profit if the value will be higher in the future.

If you are sure to get the quoted percentage as interest, try it. But I feel such investments are not safe for my bitcoins. Of this reason I just hold my bitcoins.

Holding is now the best thing that you can do. The value is not that high to sell it and it is also not that low to make an investment.
So it will better if you hold. And just wait. We all hope that the value will rise and that it can be more worth later so we can sell it with profit.

Wait i believe he has some 100 btc and above,and maybe he had bought last year on the 200 -250 dollars soo he is already in proof,but sure he should hold a bit more and sell during the halving or a bit after it as the price may gets bigger .

I agree. Bitcoin price seems to be bouncing of a floor at 400 and trying to push upwards

Bitcoin will go up ,but before and to avoid be frozen waiting it to happen anyone should try the altcoins that are very atractive for a short position,meaning around some hours and max 2 days to avoid turn into a loss.

If the altcoin is attractive and the price is high, I will mine it and sell the coin to buy more bitcoin.