Bitcoin Forum

Another news that will tarnish the reputation of Bitcoin, looks like the bad guys found a new option to be untraceable and no need to show up to pick up the bag "ProtonMail Sent $6000 BitCoin Ransom to Hackers to Stop DDoS Attack, DDoS Continues Anyway"

http://apexbeats.com/recent/3253-11/protonmail-sent-6000-bitcoin-ransom-to-hackers-to-stop-ddos-attack-ddos-continues-anyway/

We can pay ransom to the hackers, but we shall find and punish them as well. Bitcoin is just a tool, it is not evil. The criminals are evil.

This case looks weird, attackers got paid and someone continues ddos a day later. If first one was about ransom, then 2nd attack definitely isn't as there's no chance any company would pay twice.

The hackers are likely “not the Armada Collective anymore,” Yen says. “They have publicly denied responsibility for the second attack. Based on the size and sophistication of the second attack, this is a highly organized and well-funded group. Typically you only find these capabilities with state backed groups.”

"ProtonMail was originally founded to create a more secure email server in response to Edward Snowden’s revelations about NSA surveillance in 2013."

it help them more, to do it in bitcoin, because there is no trace left, the address is not connected with the name of the hacker

it's like cash but more convenient for them, because you can do it with internet

Why the hell did they pay the ransom?  ::) All this does is make them a bigger target because people now know they pay up.

I thought DDOS could be blocked quite well after a few days of attacks?

There are enough services that provide protection from them, sure it costs, but appearently it is required nowadays to avoid this kind of bullshit.

Another bad news from the hackers connected with bitcoin. But I don't understand why must tarnish its reputation. The world is full with impostors and thieves which make every day various thefts and frauds with all the kind of moneys. These money don't have any kind of tarnish because of the above actions. Why bitcoin must have? Have no meaning this thing (if it will be so). Lets hope that the Government of Swiss will not follow the example of Taiwan which has banned bitcoin for a similar case. But I don't think that they will do such thing.

I don't understand how this tarnishes the reputation of Bitcoin. The way that I see it is that Bitcoin is another currency. There are also a lot of cases like this with fiat so I don't really see how this affects Bitcoin's reputation.

Exactly! This won't do a damn  thing to Bitcoin. What can we do to prevent this? Nothing! Is Bitcoin protocol doing things like this or bad people out there? Bad people of course.

Yes, this can give some fuel to the FUDsters and trolls out there but screw them. We shouldn't pay attention to these fools anyways.

I think a more prominent problem is why are companies paying ransom? By paying ransom, it is essentially giving attackers money and incentive for more attacks and it wouldn't guarantee the DDOS would stop.

It's easy to say, but if ransom demand is 'reasonable' and is much less than the potential damage caused, then it makes sense to pay it. And if the attackers stick to their promise and stop the attack (it also makes financial sense for them to do so) then you have enough time to come up with solutions preventing future attacks.

It does stop script kiddles attack but there are more sophisticated attacks.

DDOS protection services gives up privacy for protection. They act as a proxy between the user and the website and have the ability to read the information that the user sends. That's why this forum doesn't use it.

I still don't understand how people fall for this. It is as easy as having your OS up to date and not opening anything that is from an strange origin (beware of cracked software...) and that's it.

This.

Makes about as much sense as saying it will tarnish the reputation of tcp/ip or of the Internet.  Or the Lindbergh kidnapping tarnished the reputation of cash.

Someone should make statistics. How many ransoms were paid in US dollars, how many in Russian rubles, Swiss francs, Euros?
I doubt BTC is the most widely used currency for this activity. When you pay taxes, which is some kind of a ransom for the right to keep on living the way you do, BTC isn't accepted yet.

Many people will understand that the evil is not in the tool (Bitcoin) if they gave it a second thought.

Problem is most people are lazy to think. They'll see Bitcoin + ransom in the news and asociate it to evil instinctively.

Yes. The thing why people keep falling for it is they tend to get relaxed when it comes to checking the authenticity of the software. But they keep suffering staggering losses just because they find it tedious to check first before they install any kind of software.

I don't think that people will think more negatively about bitcoin, because we are on an uptrend with financial magazines promoting blockchain. This is just a small dent in our tank people.

People need to get the memo, We do not negotiate with bitcoin terrorists.

If they are threatening your business, your data or anything else that you hold dear.. Do not pay them, because you might think they will give you what they promised, but in my mind this is just more reason for them to hold onto what they have and push you farther and farther until you can't pay anymore.

We have seen people kidnapping rich persons and asking for ransom in cash for release, we've seen this in movies, we've seen this in real life sometimes too. The main motive behind this is hunger for money. Hunger for money can be in any form. And, this time it's in bitcoins. Recently, in Taiwan a billionaire was kidnapped and was asked to pay in btc. Now, isn't this crossing the limit? Bitcoins have more value as compared to most fiat currencies. And this is a reason behind these kidnaps. Due to a result of this incidence, bitcoin was even banned in Taiwan, and using it was against law. These incidents tell us that bitcoins must be used in a proper manner and those evil-minded people need to change their thinking as asking ransom may send them to jail for lifetime.

lets say that 1million people USE bitcoin regularly
lets say that 10,000 people get paid a regular and proper wage in bitcoin..

with many media items saying that mtgox has stolen from thousands of users people. or trendon shavers stole from thousands of users. or the ransomware cryptolock has affected millions of non-users. or the bitcoin ponzi schemes, bad investments. and the closures of mintpal, cryptorush, bitcoinica, and many other exchanges..

the victim rate far exceeds the user rate. and the amount of people receiving a wage and fully living on bitcoin (without pre conversion to fiat) is so low that the positives do not white out the negatives.

for all those that want to defend bitcoin. you probably also defend your home, or country to that same honour and respect no matter what is said..
so..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs
bitcoin is not the greatest currency in the world... but it can be!!
atleast be honest, that way it can be fixed

The funny thing here is, that does protonmail generates enough revenue that they had to pay 6000BTC for freeing their service? I never heard of them. I really am not able to digest the fact that they actually did pay "6000BTC", maybe it's just a publicity stunt?

This is unbelievable! They paid and got scammed since they are being attacked again and now they ask people's money to refund their mistakes?
Simply unbelievable.
Why don't pay those 6000$ to some security experts in the first place?

 ::) ::) ::)

Read the article linked in the first post.

They didn't got scammed. The second attack is not run by the same group as the first one. It would absolutely make no sense to continue ddos after the ransom was paid. There is zero chance the victim would pay again if the attackers didn't stick to their promise the first time, so continuing ddos would be just a waste of resources.

And they're raising funds to increase security, since the current solutions are proven insufficient, they're not asking people for those $6k paid.

Ransoms being demanded in Bitcoin certainly gives bitcoin a bad reputation. People begin to associate bitcoin with these negative things and it isn't good.

Although, once bitcoin replaces fiat, all demands would be in bitcoin anyhow. Essentially, it is just like demanding cash. But to someone not experienced, they may associate all of bitcoin with that aspect.

sorry but bitcoin wont be the only currency for 7billion people..
i think people need to stop overexagerating their bitcoin faith. and instead stick to the realities.

when bitcoin gets more then a few thousand people recieving a wage in bitcoin. (remote working/ international work) and a few million use it regular..
lets say 20mill-100mill.. then bitcoin will be successful..

try not to exagerate bitcoin to be the cure for cancer or the end of poverty.. bitcoin has its place in the world and a large place at that.. but hailing it as the second coming and saying it will be everything the world dreams.. can actually put people off as much as the ransomware.

try sticking to logic and reality, have a fair balance of good or bad.. talk about bitcoins actual positive usefulnesses. and not its supposed god like potential..

i see many people going too far overboard with bitcoins future.. that it actually compares to media going overboard with the negatives..

i think a few people need to take a step back and stop praying for the miracle of a one world currency. and instead look at the logical future..

to be honest this type of thing is good and bad news for bitcoin. Whether we like it or not criminals are going to now move over to bitcoin bit criminals are still users of bitcoin, though obviously the general public will see this as a bad thing and it might scare them off. Still publicity at the end of the day.

The protocol works, if you can't be your own bank because you can't keep your computer and or paper wallet secure, then just go to Xapo and let them manage your Bitcoins for you on their vaults. It's not Bitcoin's fault people are computer illiterates.

I wonder if that transaction ID for the payment is still exist or can be found, since I doubt that this maybe just a publicity stunt that they we're attacked so they can make news and publicity for free.

yes bitcoin, like gold works based on their own uniqueness.(bitcoins code and golds unique mineral type)
but people need to stop hailing bitcoin or gold as the sole future means of wealth..
id say at most bitcoin would hit 10% world usage.. which is far far better then USD, which is only 5% world usage. (350mill pop/7bill pop)
this does not mean FIAT will die.. it does not mean bitcoin wont last.. it just means logically that bitcoin can be great alongside fiat.

the issue right now is that while the reality of under 10,000 getting a regular wage out of bitcoin.. and out of them not all can buy toilet roll using their bitcoin locally.. shows that bitcoins usefulness is not quite there to hail it as 'god'

the reality is that in just 6 years there have been more victims then occassional users. and much higher odds compared to people living fully on bitcoin.
so the lives positively affected by bitcoin. does not outweigh the lives negatively affected.

so bitcoin has the potential for soo much. your right, the code proves it.. but bitcoin ECONOMY is more than just the code.. its businesses, exchanges, users, projects, idea's, personal choices.
so right now casting bitcoin as the one world currency, without actually doing anything so that people can buy toilet roll and bread with bitcoin. is not going to sway people to ignore the negative..

infact casting it as a big thing.. and then when new users struggle to find a legit place to convert FIAT to btc.. and then find local places in their neighbourhood to spend it.. is such a struggle, that it makes bitcoins potential claims feel false because 99% of people wont look at or care about the code.. they want to see what they can DO with bitcoin..

i think people need to hold back, calm down and work on getting bitcoin more useful (i personally have, but see many sitting on their hands waiting).

so lets not give a crap about media's positives or negatives.. its not time yet to go mainstream and definitely not time to make grandpa or the computer dysfunctional folk get involved.. lets get bitcoin more useful and userfriendly before trying to hail it as the one world currency, that many people pray for

When bitcoin is used as ransom, it is bad publicity. But people still see the report, so it make more people aware of the existence of bitcoin. It is  an advertisement for bitcoin.

I think their biggest mistake was to pay the ransom to someone who was abusing your servers by DDoSing them. I'm sure there would be cyber crime agencies that could have helped them track them down. Also, a lot of ddos protection services available online who could have helped them mitigate the attack.

Bitcoin terrorists is bad usage.
The only connection to Bitcoin is that the ransom paid was in Bitcoins. The hackers have no ideological support for Bitcoin; they just find Bitcoin's pseudonymity useful.

Recently I have this one at my place. They ask for ransom or he will explode the mall 's toilet . And it did happen but our police has succeed captured the bomber after 4 hours.

Bomber said that he did that because he need money. But why bitcoin ? Because it's anonymity

how did they know that they are paying the right group who attacked them and how did they know that the BTC address is for the attackers

I would imagine attackers either announce the attack beforehand, or just stops the attack in the specific time just to prove it's them.


Again, $6k is reasonable price even for small company.
Imagine you run internet-based business and got ddosed. You have to choose risking losing lots of current and potential clients as well as trust in your business (potentially you could even face a lawsuit, if it caused loss to any of your clients). Or you could just pay $6k and buy yourself enough time to come up with proper protection, so this won't happen again. What do you do?

Daily reminder, even FBI acknowledged that paying ransom is often the best option:
http://www.coindesk.com/fbi-malware-victims-should-pay-bitcoin-ransoms/

Isn't it that making a deal with those attackers will just open the doors to those with criminal minds that it's now possible to commit this kind of crime and gets out of it undetectable. $6k is small price to pay but it's not a guarantee that they will not attack again and maybe next time they attack they upgraded to a more destructive way of attacking sites using the $6K ransom.

It's easy for everyone, not directly involved, to say what they should have/shouldn't have done, but it's different if you (your company) are directly affected.

Maybe the address was given to them by the attackers. In the file locking attack, the victim will be given a bitcoin address straight away.

in this case bad publicity is not good. Bitcoin adoption requires people to trust the system rather than just know about it. these sort of news would hurt the trust in Bitcoin (shallow understanding of it) people will associate Bitcoin with these sort of events. recently read somewhere that Isis has a wallet with few million usd worth of bitcoins?

People accepting bitcoins as ransom means that it is widely acknowledged that bitcoins are a superior payment processor in term of anonymity than anything else.

But bitcoins aren't designed to do bad stuff like this so, better stop doing it.