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Reserved!

Green = Safe Bet/High Bet

That looks nice. Everyone offers tips in sports and not e-sports.
By the way, why only dota 2. I like League of legends to. I never tried to bet on e-sports, so I don't even know if we can make bets on Lol, but If we can on dota then it should also be possible on Lol I think.

I had a look at the "Major's" picks and looked pretty solid for me. I would have preferred [A] over c9 but the U.xiu was a pretty wild one, i would have lost that one also. Overall the picks you have done look pretty good, i think ill follow some tips and see how it goes. Nitrogen is the better site for the betting i guess ? As i know there have been issues with dota2lounge in the past (tho it allows to bet with ingame items)
Good luck with the picks!

What's your take on EG vs CDEC 3 hours from now, a safe bet on EG or hope for a shocking CDEC win? I'm pretty sure Evil Geniuses has this one, but can't shake the feeling that CDEC has something under their sleeves, especially after knocking off Mineski and LGD.

I have a feeling EG will take it. CDEC is a good team but i feel every team from China seems to be lacking a bit (not to say other regions are that much ahead). Even icex3 told in his interview that Chinese teams did not come into the Majors very prepared because they are not used to the new format. The EU/NA teams seem to grasp the idea a bit better it feels.
Also EG is showing signs of improvement, they seem to be moving up steadily so i think "This one is in the bag" lol.

[/size]

Yup, good thing I took the 'safe bet'. Anyway, OP, why no analysis whatsoever?

I'm going for EG again in the EG v Secret team. SumaiL got extreme talent and I think they're in the right momentum coming from the CDEC win. I wanna see SumaiL go for a 2 role again.

As I can say all of your pick is determined by higher chances. I think the odds should be low enough to get some items here

Judging from past encounters, in Bo5 matches Team Secret has won all. Secret has won 4/5 of the Bo5 they played, EG has won 3-2 during StarLadder season 10. That version of secret is the one with FLY and notail.

Nice to have some dota 2 betting. as we all know that the finals are harder to bet cause the results can always be unexpected. but seeing how u always just keep following the majority, you may end up lossing more at the final few rounds, while winning more at the starting stages. that is how dota betting is for bracket tournament.

Todays game OG vs EG should be a easy call. I think EG will win. They showed against secret that they are getting better and better (some small slipups happen but im sure they will iron them out as they play more).
As for OG, the road to top 3 is really impressive! I put them in top 6 as i thought they would do well but they surprised me a bit with their run.
Anything can happen but i think the finals will be a rematch of EG vs Secret

I agree, It was a great run from OG, a fairly new team in the scene, they're never running out of surprises. But against a SumaiL tinker and Arteezy Sven oh noes this one is in the bag. I'd want to see a rematch in the finals too. I believe EG can perform better next time.

Update: My, my, OG was wild in that 3rd game, sad but it was fun to watch. It's secret Vs OG now for the finals.

Update: Oh my, OG won. Lucky I didn't bet in the grand finals. They're on TI now.

Could you also post how much you are up % wise ? Or some kind of metric for a ROI ?
Because it seems the % you gain per win can be pretty low, even to a point where you might need 3-4 wins to make up a single loss.
So if you can please show your ROI

Am seeing lots of new teams lately, maybe OG winning the Frankfurt Major inspired all of the fresh blood to step it up. I'm going for Newbee in the Newbee vs CDEC matchup at the StarLadder series 3 hours from now. CDEC as far as I know is a powerhouse so I'm betting small  ;D.

I've never seen a dota game played by professionals, let alone people betting on these games. I might start watching and see if I could try my luck on one of these bets.

[Upcoming Matches] [December 01, 2015]


[ 2 hours from now ] (BO2) 4CL vs MVP.P = 4CL
[ 2 hours from now ] (BO3) OG vs Alliance = OG
[ 4 hours from now ] (BO2) coL vs NoLogic = coL
[ 5 hours from now ] (BO3) CIS.R vs Vega = Vega
[ 6 hours from now ] (BO3) Arcade vs Goomba = Arcade

what from this both bet website you guys recommend?

If you're planning to bet with your own Bitcoin visit Nitrogensports.eu or If you have a Dota 2 items to bet visit Dota2Lounge.com

Just a reminder fella, "Don't risk what you can't afford to Lose".

OG is really a safe bet on this match-up against [A]lliance. Alliance had lost its strength, it seems, and Bulldong nor Loda couldn't carry the game single-handed. Also, Miracle- disrupts the game very good, and I like his games and the way he used that illu to know that enemies used smoke is just next level doto for me.

It is from dota2lounge.com dude, it's not official valve betting but its recommended. and if you want more option for betting like handicap or 1st 10 kill you can try dota2.vpgame.com and on this site you can bet football / basketball matches with dota2 items.

 [RESULT OF THE MATCHES!] [ W: 3-0 ]

 (BO2) 4CL vs MVP.P = 4CL [DRAW]
 (BO3) OG vs Alliance = OG [WON]
 (BO2) coL vs NoLogic = coL [DRAW]
 (BO3) CIS.R vs Vega = Vega [WON]
 (BO3) Arcade vs Goomba = Arcade [WON]

[Upcoming Matches] [December 02, 2015]

[TOURNAMENT: CANADA CUP]
[ 1 hour from now  ] (BO1) EWolves vs DC = EWolves
[ 2 hours from now ] (BO1) Mischief vs DC = DC
[ 4 hours from now ] (BO1) EWolves vs DC = DC

[TOURNAMENT: GAME SHOW GLOBAL]
[ 9 hours from now  ] (BO2) Vega vs coL = Vega
[ 11 hours from now ] (BO2) Vega vs MVP.P = Vega

[Upcoming Matches] [December 02, 2015]

Starseries
[ 3 hours from now ] (BO3) CIS.R vs Liquid = CIS.R
Game Show Global
[ 3 hours from now ] (BO2) Vega vs MVP.P = Vega
DotaPit
[ 5 hours from now ] (BO2) Fntc vs FD = Fntc
Game Show Global
[ 5 hours from now ] (BO2) Empire vs MVP.P = Empire
BTS Southeast Asia
[ 5 hours from now ] (BO3) Trust vs Pang5 = Trust
Starseries
[ 6 hours from now ] (BO3) Alliance vs Na'Vi = Na'Vi
Game Show Global
[ 7 hours from now ] (BO2) Empire vs coL = Empire

What a great game for Na`vi yesterday. That combo from magnus and ember spirit :D.
and for today, there's many games. for me i pick Vega, Liquid, Fnatic, and try yolo navi like yesterday.
I think it will be a good match navi vs alliance. el clasico.

Navi did what Secret,EG,Ehome,Mineski,Empire, and most teams couldn't do to OG, beat them in style and skill.

Yeah, especially that Dendi magnus man, that fight on roshan pit was so big, skewer into cliff 2 core hero. and lucky for ember spirit, got double damage + empower then BOOM. easy triple kill lol.
The problem is that OG draft don't have dissable for ember. and just type GG.

I'm actually kinda happy game 1 was a throw, it goes to show that Na'Vi was really playing well againts a monster team like OG and the one game they lost was a throw. See No XBoct, No Throw. ::)

[TOURNAMENT: CANADA CUP]
[ 1 hour from now  ] (BO1) EWolves vs DC = EWolves [WON]
[ 2 hours from now ] (BO1) Mischief vs DC = DC  [WON]
[ 4 hours from now ] (BO1) EWolves vs DC = DC [LOSS]

[TOURNAMENT: GAME SHOW GLOBAL]
[ 9 hours from now  ] (BO2) Vega vs coL = Vega [WON]
[ 11 hours from now ] (BO2) Vega vs MVP.P = Vega [WON]

Blithe, I would suggest you to add Betcoin.ag (https://sports.betcoin.ag/#/sport/esports/3693) to your OP in order to get more traction for your predictions.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2lny2s.png (https://sports.betcoin.ag/#/sport/esports/3693)

E.HOME vs Liquid coming up in The Summit, as far as bets go the odds are almost tied up. What's your take? I'm in for E.Home, watched them previously on Star Ladder and they're doing awesome.

DOTA 2 Betting can happen on Phantasm https://phantasm.io (https://phantasm.io)

I want to try the Dots gambling but I don't know if you will accept bitcoin lightening payment, I really want to try out the site because the features look great and with a good odds and hoping you guys will look into adding sport betting and most especially football betting to the features of the site.

If you want to advertise your site if it is yours, try posting in this forum about it. Here in gambling section.

I hope that this thread will be alive, I want to try dota betting also.

I am interested in esports and have a small experience in different sections of regular gambling sites. Can someone share the strategy for esports (especially for games like dota2 or PB) ?

If your into dota you should probably watch a team match and make a analysis so you would know which team is the strongest, also keep an eye for the teams who scrim alot, they are most likely gonna come out strong.

If you are a dota 2 player and follow the competitive scene on dota2, you can get better prediction imo, because i am a dota2 player and it's really help me to know which one is good which one is not.

Is PB is point blank? I'm not sure about it, never saw that on esports betting before.

What is PB? For you to make good strategy in betting, you need to consider playing the game you want to bet. And, look for a streamer to help you boost your game. And of course, you are betting on professional players, you should try to watch their highlights so that you can know what team you'll put your money on.

Did you mean, scream or stream with that word "scrim"? I don't know if it is helpful to guess who will be going to win at the end since the result at the end is unpredictable especially if the team plan works well compared to the team who keeps on screaming just because they were owning at an early stage. There are two paces of the game in order to win.

The early game stage: Most of the time it consists of a team of roamer who keeps ganking at an early stage since most core heroes is not that strong at early stages and they will need the constant back up and support when someone is ganking at him.

The long game stage: This is the game were most core heroes are almost fully equipped with their best items that would flip the whole game if they were beaten at early stages. Although this is not really going to decide if who will win the game since there are strategy too can flip also the game.

No good carries would handle the game on long game if there are no good support on early stage.Lacking out wards,roaming,support will really lead to loss. Cores should be baby sit on the early phase and as being
said they arent that good killer thats why support will do the job and later on the carry will do its job.

If you are looking for teams in dota 2, i would recommend to bet only to those who are on the top 10 teams like team secret and virtus pro, they are team that are not throwing especially on major tournaments.

I think this Point Blank

Good to see that there's a prediction thread for this one and it's alive again. I think we should start with the ESL One Mumbai 2019.

I'll start this after the match between Navi and Col & The Pango and Signify.

Yeah it's point blank, i guess he's from indonesia because point blank is really popular in indonesia here.

ESL One Mumbai 2019 already started since yesterday, i'm surprised team TT which is EternalEnvy team at the 1st position on group A, good luck to EE lol.

scrim means both of the pro teams play against each other, it's like practice for both teams and it can make them know the other team better, giving them more chances of winning.

it's not guarantee they will automatically win, sometimes a team can make a upset, and also virtus pro have problems winning TI because they keep choking on TI.

Alright, congratulations to Navi for making it to the upper bracket.

I'd like to predict Signify vs. TNC.

Obviously this game should go for TNC.

With the upper bracket finals.

Mineski vs NaVi.

With their group stage score, they were both  2-1 / 4-3.

I'm impress with the improvement of NaVi but I'll go with Mineski.

If anyone listened to my prediction.

TNC won against Signify with a score of 2-0.

TNC will fight against Team Team later on the lower bracket. TNC lost against Team Team during the group stage but I guess this time, TNC will take the crown and will move on R3 lower bracket.

MDL Disney Land is coming these days Who do you think will be the take the crown in Paris?
I am preparing to bet soon esports betting site. I have high hopes on Keen Gaming  ,Fnatic and Team Secret

Among with these teams

Team Secret
Team Liquid
OG
Virtus.pro
Team Empire
Keen Gaming
PSG.LGD
Vici Gaming
Fnatic
Mineski
paiN Gaming
Chaos Esports Club
Evil Geniuses
compLexity Gaming
TEAM TEAM
Ninjas in Pyjamas

My bet would be on PSG.LGD and Virtus.Pro.

I have high hopes of Team Liquid and PSG.LGD of winning but OG took the aegis on their final matchup against PSG.LGD during the last TI8 tournament. But now, i don't OG has a power to prove it to their opponent since they aren't complete anymore and the same with the rest of the team.

Do not worry. There are many worthy teams left. I really like the team Secret and Liquid. However, I am sure that Virtus Pro will become the champion of TI 2019.

Group stage will be on May 4th and 5th, we're so close to those days.

I'll be posting my predictions soon with this tournament. Well, I'm a Secret fan boy and they have been consistent for the past tournaments but I'll predict my winner during the playoffs.

Okay, we're going now to MDL Disneyland Paris Major. Here are my predictions for opening matches.

Group A
VP vs Beastcoast (former Team Team)
For obvious reasons, BC has a new roster and I think they lack of practice to beat VP, so Vp for this match.

KG vs Liquid
This is hard to predict, KG is very underrated but Liquid has been so unstable for the past tournaments but I think they had something for this tourney. Liquid for me.

---

Group B
Secret vs Empire
Again Secret for me, one of the tier A team in the world and a team that has been consistent since their establishing days.

NiP vs Chaos
NiP is the champ of Oga Dota Pit and they just got the last slot for this tournament. I guess these teams were both in terms of experience and thinking but NiP for me on this match.

---

Group C
Vici Gaming vs Pain Gaming
VG never gets old, and this isn't the Pain Gaming that we used to know before. Roster of Pain Gaming for me isn't that popular but they are all competitive but for me, it's VG.

PSG.LGD vs MSKI
PSG.LGD for me, like Secret they are one of the most consistent teams ever.

---

Group D
EG vs COL
EG, top NA team while COL like the drama made by TT (BC now) with roster change, I think they lack of practice as well.

Fnatic vs OG
Both fan of this team, OG the TI8 champs.
But I'll go with Fnatic, no need for short analysis, this is my guess.

All of my predictions are base on my opinion and there's no assurance that all of them would hit so if someone will follow my tip, don't blame me if the team we bet losses.

Virtus Pro.√
Team Liquid √
Secret √
NiP √
Vici Gaming √
LGD √
EG √
Fnatic X - OG win

Good choices and a nice win for those who followed.

Im excited for the Playoffs - May 6th - May 12th.

Yeah got a wrong prediction with Fnatic, got a very wrong guess with them. And we're up with few games today, upper and lower bracket.

Upper Bracket.
Team Secret vs. PSG.LGD
Score now is 1-1, best of 3. I'm waiting for the 3rd and last game. First game won by TS and 2nd game got by PSG.LGD.
For the 3rd game, Team Secret got this.

Virtus.Pro vs. OG
Although OG is the king of comeback's, I don't think VP will allow that.

---

Lower Bracket.
Complexity Gaming (CoL) Vs. Beastcoast(BC)
These two teams were part of the Dota 2 roster drama but for me, CoL's line up is better.

Mineski vs. Team Empire
Mineski got this, Team Empire is too inconsistent.

Secret do able to pull out that Game 3 and nice guess.I thought LGD will win this one but it isnt really that enough yet Morphling and ES wont really be
enough to the hitters of Secret which is AM and MK.

Now on the current game which is VP and OG on banning and picking phase.Lets see of this best of 3 series

Edit: OG took game 1 due to that Drow Ranger. lol

Alright, going back to this thread for those predictions I've made. LGD simply choked, if you have heard the casters they can't believe on what's happening to them especially on the bottom 2nd tower.

Upper Bracket.
Team Secret vs. PSG.LGD = we made the right prediction here.

Virtus.Pro vs. OG = we didn't made it here, the TI8 champs is proving themselves.

---

Lower Bracket.
Complexity Gaming (CoL) Vs. Beastcoast(BC) = CoL won it and happy to see that BC will go home.  :P

Mineski vs. Team Empire = as I've said Team Empire is too inconsistent, they got it during the early game but everything went wrong during the mid-game.

With all of those 4 predictions yesterday, we hit 3 correctly.  ;)

---

We have 4 games again for upper and lower bracket, here are my predictions.

Upper Bracket.
EG vs. Team Liquid = I think EG got this, they are consistent on the groupstage, no worries for Team Liquid, they can still fall and recover on the lower bracket if they lose, well this applies for both teams.

VG vs NiP = Vici Gaming ofcourse though this is a hard pick for me, both veteran teams.

---

Lower Bracket.
Chaos EC vs Pain Gaming = Pain gaming still needs to furnish and gain more experience, Chaos EC got this.

Keen Gaming vs. Fnatic = I've chosen Fnatic on the group stage and I'll stay with them, win or lose although Keen Gaming is also strong team.

I think OG will be going again to the top in the final round, they already defeated VP 2-0 to lower bracket, surely the TI18 champion is gonna suprise us again.

Virtus pro is a veteran team but im even surprised that they do still choked on their games.They do able to handle the game on early but chokes on mid-game.
There are even gg calls even if they do still able to defend it. Was it pro-based or just a mistake?
On these new picks ill stick with Liquid,VG,Chaos and FNATIC.

Btw, im little bit excited with TI9. Battle pass incoming. lol

OG vs Team Secret 2 days from now.

I've lost with my prediction on them, I'm still considering OG as not impressive champ but they are truly proving themselves. VP is known for tilting the game, when they are triggered and pissed off it is automatically a gg call for them.

Here's the cap of my predictions;
Upper Bracket.
EG vs. Team Liquid = we're good with this prediction.

VG vs NiP = VG lost, NiP took the series.

---

Lower Bracket.
Chaos EC vs Pain Gaming = Didn't see that come, Dota 2 is totally full of surprises, congrats to Pain Gaming although a lot of blackholes have missed.  :D

Keen Gaming vs. Fnatic = Oh Fnatic choked, sad to see they are going home early.

I was considering that fnatic would make on the top 6 but its sad for me because, there is no south east asian team anymore. Anyways i am going for team secret to be the champ, thats only my opinion. Betting on team secret!

I didnt really expect that VG would lost to NiP and so as with Chaos EC to Pain Gaming.Seems like we didnt able to have some track on their past tournaments or different rosters
as of this moment.It do have indeed lots of surprises.

Just to ask on why TNC didnt able to join up?

Edit: Oh i see they are on 3rd place and didnt qualify

 3rd   -    TNC Predator
 4th   -    EVOS Esports

Unfortunately, the OG at the moment does not look as cool as it was on TI18.
However, they have every chance to win if Topson draws the game as always.
I support a beautiful game, but I love the game Solo and Puppey the most.

Man, OG has been consistent with this tournament and they have been on the top since the group stage. They are about to match with Team Secret and if they lose against Secret, they have a secured 4th place. Solo is from VP and they have won against Mineski with a sweep today.

Haven't predicted games today because I'm kind of sick but here's a recap of the winners today, all from lower bracket.
PSG.LGD vs CoL
VP vs Mski
Team Liquid vs Pain Gaming
VG vs Keen = still on game, VG already got 1 win. This is a Bo3 series

It isn't too late, we're now heading to the tier one teams matches, all match are Bo3.

PSG.LGD vs VP = this is a tough decision for me, both are great teams but I'll go with the Chinese team.
Team Liquid vs Vici Gaming = VG is a chinese team and they are underrated team but Liquid is still on another level.
OG vs Team Secret = I respect OG as TI8's champ but Secret for me on this series.
EG vs NiP = former captain of EG will be against his former team but still EG got this.

http://i66.tinypic.com/20mfrl.png

Secret is just awesome.Dominating teams in top bracket and now waiting for the final game against the winner
between the team who would win on lower bracket.LGD vs LIQUID would really be an interesting fight which would face up
EG.

Well this could help me choose where to bet I used to play DOTA and that is where I started to be addicted to computer games.
And right now I just started playing Dota 2 again and I am not really familiar to the teams on Dota 2.

You can check it out here: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Main_Page

Checkout the top  3 Finalist today will playing within couple of hours.  EG  V.s Liquid I think there is a big chance that liquid will give good plays. But EG will still win. Then in Grandfinals  85% sure Team Secret will be the champion on MDL Disney Land. Lets bet now!

http://i66.tinypic.com/2i5xs.jpg

As I expected Liquid would pull this out. They would be the one to face up Secret in finals.About on the choices i do already expect that Liquid will win but even though EG did make a good fight.

Currently watching the finals where Secret is leading 2-1 against Liquid.This is Best of 5 then this might be closed by Secret if Liquid cant able to comeback.

Edit: Congratulations Secret! Finish up the game with 3-1.

Alright, my prediction is correct about this tournament for Secret congratulations to them!


 1st   $350,000   4,950    Team Secret

Runner ups:
 2nd   $170,000   3,000    Team Liquid
 3rd   $100,000   2,100    Evil Geniuses
 4th   $80,000   1,350    PSG.LGD

Source: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Mars_Dota_2_League/Disneyland_Paris_Major

That isnt quite bad for the prize but the main event which is The International 2019 is approaching talking about bout millions of prize pool.
Atleast somehow we are seeing on which team would be worthy to bet on the international.

Would you still make predictions on The international and leave this thread open and updated?

Nice thread can't really keep up on what is happening to the tournament right now.
And this is the thread that I would like to visit to know the latest info about it,
I have been busy this past few days.

It is a major event by valve so the prizes are truly high than minors. Even the 13th-16th places has good prize.

I don't own this thread but I'm actually planning to make my own thread by that time or will just post all of the updates and other tournaments ofcourse including TI9.

Nice , Thanks this would be really helpful for me.
I would watch this team and try to apply what they are doing on my own play.

That's a good idea blockman because the OP is not active anymore and the last major and minor with DPC points prizes is coming again from DOTA 2. We need some other active prediction from people here. https://liquipedia.net/dota2/EPICENTER/2019

And speaking of Prize Pool from the International its only couple of days since the launch of Compendium 2019!
http://i63.tinypic.com/21ovo6v.jpg

This game is what I'm mostly able to correctly predict the winner. If you are following every single games form pro-circuit you should get less loss on your predictions. Unfortunately, I'm too late to find this thread and not be able to join the predictions anymore, LOL. But, don't expect your predictions will be always right for The International events as there always be an unpredictable things happen.

Purchasing some BP.lol

http://i67.tinypic.com/egvnv4.png

On any sports either on typical sport games or e-sports there would be no always some guaranteed prediction but atleast if you do have the track on most of their
fights you would able to make some good analysis rather than having nothing at all.

Good for you! buy more and get a good set, it's gamble though lol

It seems, dota2 is different from sport games. Honestly, I don't really follow sport games so just put this aside.
In dota2 we can always know hero pool for every team including the ability of the heroes, player's play style and their movements. We can always predict the winner far before the game is started. Comeback is real, it's highly possible but at least we always have a strong base prediction. For EG, I don't know why they always be the third but obviously there is no compatibility between sumail and arteezy since a long time. Team Secret have a very bright performances since the start, they always play with mind. It's a mind war. Team Liquid can't get their best game back since won TI7 their hero pool and play style is always boring, it's like only Miracle- playing the whole game. OG? TI8 Winner? They were just mad at that time and lucky. Now they could not play properly as their stomach is full of money.

Im a long time player since 2012 and i have completed TI purchases since then.Starting up with level 1 even there are options to buy +50 +100 levels.Im not wasting too much money
yet i do able to level it by playing.$10 for BP doesnt hurt and just aiming some good sets.

Each people do have different favorites.I cant blame if you do look at on that way which you do really have that point.Going back in the past where Secret is just a mid-tier team when it comes to tourneys but surprisingly
when their roster been changed they do able to give out some spark which in result  ive been eyeing this team on internationals.

So you think Team Secret could be the winner of TI9?
I think not that easy, I'm pretty sure there are some teams that have a secret strategy only to win The International. As we know, TI reward usually more than the whole majors combined (I hope this year too) and It's obvious that some team would rather to be TI Champion than just to be Majors Champion. Money is everything!

Im aint saying that Secret would be the TI winner but chances are really high.I dont think that Teams on Minor tournaments are just holding back when it comes to their strategy because
the higher the winning rate on tournaments on minor ones does signify that their team is better among the rest, they might recreate some strategy but that would be on point on TI time.
Statistics does really matter and yes, we cant predict on what would happen but atleast we do have some good reference to look at.

And what is your strategy? Cause I always just bet on match result.

Easy to say than done though. Anyway, congratulation on your win.

That site could be used against both team to know their stats and strategy, how would you react if something would have changed during the match? That would lead you to frustration if you bet bigger.

Well, it's really hard to win in betting even if you know that there is a pro player in that team but still they lose to another team. Example team Liquid where we know that they have a pro player name Miracle but still lose to the other team and next game they won. I do agree with the post above that it's easier to said than done.

I have also 2019 battle pass, the levels are too expensive to buy as of now will wait for the yearly sale on june 2019, epicenter and the moscow minor is the next i target to bet on soon.

Buying TI9 battlepass i think for me is not worthy its my 3rd consecutive year having level1000+ for bp but this time i will pass for this time,only few immortal looks fine for me just the axe and the drow one as of the moment.Plus they remove immortal recycling for 2 levels and levels bundle price are exepensive