Bitcoin Forum

Hello,

I am from India. And I am actually planning to start a Bitcoin Mining Farm business. The location for the proposed business is actually a hilly area with cool climate throughout the year. Commercial Electricity is also available at around INR 4.2/kwh ($0.064). I am planning for raising capital to the worth of $ 3 Million (INR. 180000000). I am thinking of buying 1,000 units of Bitmain Antminer S7. The Hardware itself will cost around $1.8 Million. The dedicated Internet connection shall be a 10Mbps leased connection. And I am planning to get a 2Mw electric connection along with backup generators. The Farm will be uptime for at least 95% during the year. Also, I will upgrade the equipment in regular intervals. But, before moving any further, I have a few queries:

1. Will it be profitable in the long run ?

2. How frequently do I need to update my hardware to be in the race ?

3. What mining hardware would you guys recommend for a Mining Farm (should be efficient and fast)?

4. Will the value of Bitcoins in respect of USD increase in future (say, 5 years down the line)?

5. What proportion of the mined coins should be immediately converted into fiat money ? And where do I convert those insane amount of coins?

6. If you are from India, could you please help me in understanding the tax structure that shall be imposed on Bitcoin Mining farms in India? Also, what custom duty is levied on import of mining hardware?

7. What are the recurring costs (except for Electricity, Salary of employees, and hardware maintenance and replacement costs) ?

8. Are there any Bitcoin Mining Farms in India?

7. Finally, is the whole effort worth the profits ?

As per a Bitcoin mining calculator, it states that I shall breakeven in roughly a year. Provided I start today. If everything goes well, I shall upgrade the farm with another 1000 miners.

Please help !! (Free BTCs for everyone who helped if everything goes well. Promise  ;))

1. Will it be profitable in the long run ?

Likely not unless you have other revenue streams

2. How frequently do I need to update my hardware to be in the race ?

As much as need to continue to get a positive ROI

3. What mining hardware would you guys recommend for a Mining Farm (should be efficient and fast)?

S7, SP50 and Avalon 6

4. Will the value of Bitcoins in respect of USD increase in future (say, 5 years down the line)?

No one knows, if they did they would not tell you, especially for free.

5. What proportion of the mined coins should be immediately converted into fiat money ? And where do I convert those insane amount of coins?

That is a question only you can answer, everyone has different risk profiles.

6. If you are from India, could you please help me in understanding the tax structure that shall be imposed on Bitcoin Mining farms in India? Also, what custom duty is levied on import of mining hardware?

Contact an Indian Tax lawyers, you should not take advice on things that can get you in trouble with the law from strangers on the internet.

7. What are the recurring costs (except for Electricity, Salary of employees, and hardware maintenance and replacement costs) ?

Everything above and your investors return.

8. Are there any Bitcoin Mining Farms in India?

I believe so, not sure if it is still operating.

9. Finally, is the whole effort worth the profits ?

That is another question only you can answer, if you don't have passion for the business and what that entails, you will likely burn-out and figure it was not worth the effort.

10. As per a Bitcoin mining calculator, it states that I shall break-even in roughly a year. Provided I start today. If everything goes well, I shall upgrade the farm with another 1000 miners.

Good luck!

How do you plan on raising this much capital?   Do you have an actual investor who in interested or are you just assuming you will find someone?

I just think that is a lot of capital, and yes it has a ton of opportunity.  Just curious how set in stone your backing in.

Today is from 1000 x Antminer S7 mining  result only 35-36 BTC per day. Next week, still less . You can not start before January.

Is it really for you insane amount of coins ?

First I voted yes.

1)Maybe yes Maybe no.  Long run is 1 ,2,3,4,5, or 25  years?

2)The S-5 could have been put into use Dec 2014 and it needed to be replace Sept 2015 with the s-7  so 9 maybe 10 months

3) S-7 and Avalon 6 maybe.  I own S-7 I am waiting to test Avalon 6

4) I strongly believe this to be yes.  But I am a 58 year Retired accounting not Warren Buffet

5) Only cover your running costs> ie power and workers salaries. Hoard every other coin and if they spike sell off some.  at 400 usd then some at 450 usd then some at 500 usd.   I don't know how to sell coins in your country.

6) USA based

7) theft of coins due to various bad coin dealers.  loss of coins due to a pc crashing with bad back up.

 Apple mac minis are really good as coin holders  pm me I can show you why I  like them.

8  ) don't know but I think so

 Probably not. You need to get your electric cost down under 5c/KWH (us) and more likely down to at least 3 to be competative long-term with the "big farms".


 Probably, but not certainty.


 Did you take difficulty increases into account?
 Did you take the reward halfing (in July 2016 most likely) into account?

 My electric cost most of the year is 7.5 cents/kwh (US, approximate) and MY calculations show that no current miner is likely to achieve RoI at ANY timeframe due to those factors and current cost per TH on any available miner - and that I'd have to get to somewhere with 5 cent/KWH or less electric to have a reasonable chance of RoI on anything currently available to the public.

 At your amount of investment capitol, you MIGHT be able to get a deal with BitFury or Spondoolies for more efficient or lower cost/TH gear, but I can't figure based on information not generally available.

I actually know a rich relative. He is an investor of a kind. And always seek for better opportunities for investment. If I will be able to impress him, then I could expect at least $ 3M. What if I invest in 3,000 miners, will I be more profitable for a span of consider 2 years?

I thought that you do not spend your own  money.

The biggest problem is with  purchase of the miners.  Or do you imagine that you go to Bitmain webpage , put the total for quantity 1000 and buy it ?
You can not put a single order amount more than 300 Produkts
300x S7 = 1419 BTC
 ( 456818.67 USD ) + shipping ( 12092.01 USD )
Also, you will need to 300 PSU  46500 USD + shipping

The whole idea of yours is too utopian. And not just big numbers,This required big work.

Idea is worth to be considered, to get more miners you must contact bitmain directly if you choose s7's, only they can tell you if it is possible to get that insane amount of miners. And yes, that will be a huge work to set them up and all that mess with psu's too.

I would encourage you to scale everything back by at least a factor 10. Furthermore I would suggest you consider just buying some BTC. If the price increases, then great. If the price decreases, then there is zero chance that the mining farm you've proposed would make money either.

I have to believe that there are less risky ways to invest a million dollars, and will produce a better return.

As for for how much you'll need to convert to fiat along the way, that will depend on your costs. I am assuming that you have to pay for rent, cooling (at least fans), electricity and the like in something other than BTC. While it would be nice to calculate "Return on Investment"  strictly in BTC, that's rather foolish since there is virtually no place that will accept BTC for the associated costs (e.g. rent, electricity).

Miner's have a lifespan in 2 years a miner is obsolete and most likely will only be worth scrap, unless a way to upgrade chips.   It is the nature of BTC asics they just have a life that goes fast.

I think I agree with alh you need to scale back until you dealt with miners a little more.  Start small with a few.... see how it goes.  Then really go in if you want but keep in mind the place you get electricity is important just as much as miner if not more.

Electricity price can kill ROI in some cases.  For 3 Million... I would guess your thinking about doing your own data center... there is just a lot there to learn beforehand.

Have you not heard from
https://www.piixpay.com/web/

$0.064 actually this a prety high rate, which makes your venture risky. Honestly i would cancell your deal if you can't negotiate a more protifable rate.
Certainly if you are in India.

Remember you need to buy cooling equipment, PSU's etc. too. That will your tiny margin even more less.

Then there are people you have to hire for covering downtime, repairs etc.

That's some good advice. Start small and when it works buy more.

Even so buying 100 bitcoins and having bitcoin doubles in 1 year, would mean your double your money. In no way you can double your money with S7's Even with a great discount.

One thing to keep in mind is PSU's and cooling equipment last multiple generations if you get quality.  That is the nice thing as this point unless it's a S7 that needs 10 PCIE I have a few PSU's waiting to be used.   Also cooling equipment I'm set in my mining area and it paid for it's self all summer.   

The great news is winter I will actually be available turn off some of my cooling gear... so a little extra savings.  But come next summer assuming still profitable I will be able to mine and use it all again. 

Just like getting my mining area wired, security, etc.  This was a one time thing.   And last's multiple generations. 

buying don't increase your bitcoin stash increase only your bitcoin value in the future unless you are good at trading, with mining he can increase his coins amount if he play well his moves

and he can always sell his miners in case of trouble, especially the new one but also the s5 is still good

Dont forget that Bitcoin halving is coming, by the time you get your investors and your mining equipment. You might only have few months left and no body know what happen after that but miner is sure to be at disadvantage.

Hello Guys,

First of all thank you all for your valuable feedbacks. I have again recalculated my figures based on 100 Spondoolies SP50s. This is the link to that calculation. Could you guys please have a look at this ?

https://btcserv.net/bitcoin-mining-calculator?hashrate=11&hashrate_unit=peta&currency=USD&difficulty=65848255180&block_value=25.00&btc_rate=324.53&watt=1657000&kwh_cost=4.2&kwh_currency=INR&hardware_cost=5000000&hardware_currency=USD&pps=0.000000000152

Also, the place of the proposed server farm is kind of a hilly area with snow peaked mountains surrounding it. Average temperature during summers is maximum: 22C and during winters is 2c. Will it reduce my cooling costs.

Try to use this calculator:
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator
do not forget to fill all fields. Spondoolies does not have anything in stock, noone know if there will be something in stock at all.

Lower temperatures will lower your overall costs, you will spend less money for cooling those miners.

if you really do this keep posting for me its very fun to see the profit of mining into hardware the most relable thing to get btcs roll

rule of thumb : don't know, don't touch !

proverb of the day : early bird gets the worm

By the time you can get a farm built out from scratch it will be too close to the halving. You probably don't realize how long its going to take to do the upgrades to electrical, cooling, and general infrastructure modifications on that kind of project. And who on earth is going to loan you that kind of money? Id be afraid for my life if something on that scale failed to return for the investors. This project is also too large for one or even two people to set up in a timely fashion. I'd say it's a bad move. Profitable mining is coming to a quick end.  :-\

The starting up phase on this scale will take you months if not more.

My advice is to start small with 100 miners or so and get a feeling for it. When you are experienced ask you questions. Is it worth it?  If yes expand, else you can easily sell your stuff off.

I would be truly stunned if you could actually buy a dozen SP50 miners and have them delivered, much less 100 of them. So far there are no public price numbers nor delivery dates. It appears that the merger with BTCS isn't likely to yield the result they both hoped for.

Unless you have a an inside source, how do you know what it would cost to purchase 100 SP50 miners? When would they be delivered? I really like Spondoolies equipment, it's just that the SP50 compounds the entire speculative nature of your enterprise.

I wish you the best of luck, you are going to need it.

The low ambient temperatures will allow you to just run fans for cooling, which will lower your cooling cost and will let you run the miners a little harder most of the year.

 You STILL need lower electric cost to be able to be competative, especially at the scale you are contemplating.

 For referance, MegaBigPower pays less than 3 cents / KWH on their big Washington state farm (how much less depends on if it is located in Chelan county at a little under 3 cents/KWH or in Douglas county which is close to 2.5 cents/kwh).

Based on the calculation, the website did not factor in bitcoin halving which will occur in 6 months time. You will need to manually calculate using excel if you want to factor in the halving.

Will take few months to set up miners this scale. Make sure you don't save cost on your wiring :).

For setting up a farm that size, you can roughly double your electrical cost to factor in rent, insurance, maintenance, staff/security.  You should be able to get cheaper electricity than that if you sit down the the utility provider for a bulk commercial rate.  You are not factoring the block reward halving of next year or difficulty increases into your calculations.  Also, you will likely have to pay import duty/taxes on the purchased equipment.  You will have to educate yourself considerably more before moving ahead with a project of this magnitude.  

Also, do you think your rich uncle would be impressed that you have to consult with stranger on the internet to advise his multi-million dollar investment?  You are not quite ready.  Start small, get a feel for it, and read more.