Bitcoin Forum

I have been thinking about gold, from a different perspective. We all know that fiat money can be abused by the governments. We all know that money can be printed out of thin air, in form of fiat, that can fund tyrrany and out of control governments.

But what about gold really? Now most of you will think that of course gold limits the governments spendings and it leaves more personal freedoms to the citizens.


However that might not be the case at all. We know that wars are funded by fiat money (throughout history) but they have all been fought for gold.

There isnt a single piece of gold that hasnt been tied blood too. From crusades, wars, sackings, pillagings, going back to the bronze age, every war and other evil thing was done for gold. The middle ages: spanish conquest blood gold, englands colonizations for gold, american slavery and gold rush etc...

It seems like everything evil was done for gold. Even in WW2 Hitler after invading countries, the first thing was to steal their gold. Then after Hitler lost, the allies and soviets took their gold. Now different countries still are in dispute about the gold in ww2.


Everything evil goes around gold.


Even in the Bible when Moses went to mount Sinai, when he returned with the 10 commandments, he found that his people were worshipping gold!


Gold seems to be the instrument of the devil, and it's far older than fiat money, and proven throughout history only used for evil.


Thoughts on it?

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What about Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is superior to gold: both morally and practically. Since bitcoin is digital and can't be stolen that easily and cant be used for war, we will have a more brighter future if we adopt bitcoin instead of gold. Plus since bitcoin cant be localized physically, you cannot declare a war on a country to stole it's bitcoin because its not physically present, and private keys can be hidden easily.

There is no devil.  Evil is sort of a human construct.  Gold has unique properties.  People like shiny things.

I was meaning it metaphorically. I`m not a religious person, yet I find wisdoms in ancient texts.

You have to admit that gold itself has really caused humans to behave in evil ways. And this is just "money" that is causing people to be evil, but there is some subtle evil aura around gold that makes people do evil things.

It is the love of money which is the root of all evil. If you lust for things that are of this world, you will never grow spiritually. This war we are in must be won with soul power and knowledge. Physical force must be resisted with soul force. Lies must be countered with organized knowledge, so here I will post some details for our discussion.

The bankers do nothing productive and live off of what they steal from the people, and they are at war with 99% of We the People; in any war, the winner always seizes the gold of the loser, and that happened right here in the land of the free (USA). The Congress then passed HJR 192 in order to escape liability for TREASON.

There is a hidden history of economic attack by foreign bankers which you can read about here (PDF) (http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/950307.pdf).

http://www.nourishsantacruz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/martin-luther-king-jr-right.jpg

Not all money, I havent seen bitcoiners going on crusades and enslaving people.

Sure there are bitcoin scams and other minor things, but the scale is nothing compared to gold


Not really fiat money was always in some sort circulation even in ancient Babylon. They used copper or nickel coins as fiat money for ordinary people, whereas the lords used gold for their wars and slavery.

So most people were using fiat always, and only the elite were using gold.

if gold where taken out in the history, and copper or nickel is used by the lords as you say it will be just like gold
they will still use it the same way as they use gold.

If gold is evil, money is evil.
Because gold is money.

Exactly! And with that I totaly agree. Money is the root of all evel and this system is depends on it. Whery good way to control people, to make them slaves in this society. Now this more visible then ever, we all have internet. But I doubt that will ever change. It has to big roots I believe, and I hope I will be here when this system crash.

Bitcoin is money too, and bitcoin cant be stolen like gold can.

If bitcoin would have been here for thousands of years, then the history would be less bloody.

Bitcoin's decentralized nature removes blood from money :)

i dont agree with your reply which i highlighted bitcoin can be stolen , the address where you keep if anyone hack your account then he can do anything with that, so their is nothing that can be stolen , its upto how safe you keep it.

What i meant to say is that bitcoin cant be stolen that easily.

Gold can be stolen by just taking it. For bitcoin to be stolen the private key needs to be revealed, which is much harder to do.

So that adds some basic security to bitcoin vs gold.

No, I beleive that greed and gluttony are the roots of all evil to be honest.

Gold however made it easy for a man to wear and horde his greed and gluttony in a readily tradeable form.
How many millions have died over conquest for gold and riches? Countless numbers I am sure.

Money is the root of all evil perhaps.. and gold is money.. so is bitcoin.. so really bitcoin could be the root of all evil.

Find me any precious metals forum that has a scam accusation sub forum as long as Bitcointalk's.

I think more people have lost money through bitcoin scams/hacks/dodgy exchanges/Ponzi's/forgotten passwords/corrupted wallets/Failed hard drives than private stacker gold thefts.

I have seen too many bitcoiners who are too busy trying to make money (bitcoin) that they ignore the larger (spiritual) forces at play in their lives. Is the bitcoin network used primarily for charity and/or remittance? NO, far more bitcoin transactions relate to gambling, criminal/questionable activity, and speculation. The bitcoin not being transacted is being hoarded, again due to speculation. None of that is making the world a better place. Even worse, many in this community choose to pay TAXES on their bitcoin and that tribute inevitably funds wars as a result of that choice. I came to this community after searching for lawful money and alternatives to the banking system, so there is no way that I will volunteer to go back into that evil system. Even if you can transact your money freely, you still need to think freely in order to face evil in this world. If you are into ancient texts, you will hear practically all of them tell you that all this material stuff is evil and only that which is within you has any value; in Bhagavad Gita it is called "duty", in Tao Te Ching "virtue", in the New Testament it is the "Kingdom of God", in Buddhism "inconceivable liberation". This materialistic society only takes "death and taxes" for granted, but hear now the truth: the only certain thing is change, and "the wisest one is the one who knows only that he knows nothing" (from Plato/Socrates, it is a description of a free thinker who values internal refinement over material illusions). And from Tao Te Ching:

Therefore the ancients say, 'Yield and overcome'.
Is that an empty saying?
Be really whole,
And all things will come to you.

 The ancients mastered stone, and they knew about the non-physical. Even science is beginning to move towards a post-materialist paradigm, as explained here:
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/11/11/physicists-say-consciousness-may-be-a-state-of-matter-the-non-physical-is-indeed-real/

The love of money is indeed the root of all evil! If you are into the world of materialism and that is your message, then that is the world you portray... You WILL portray the world you represent and desire--no matter how hard you effort to hide it. You ARE exactly WHAT YOU ARE!

If you wish to change from that which you ARE--then take responsibility and become that which you desire--STOP blaming your lack of change on anything or anyone ELSE! If you are so foolish as to base your existence on another's OPINIONS WITHOUT QUESTION--THEN CHANGE IS NOT THAT WHICH YOU DESIRE--YOU LIE! When you desire something enough to change--you will DO IT. It is absolutely THAT simple.

You can create the soul-ution. Again, it is not the gold that is evil, it is the LOVE of gold; you see, mankind has forgotten the commandment to LOVE GOD and LOVE EACH OTHER; Man values objects over people and over self and as a result he loses knowledge of what is real and what should truly concern him.

Hi,

No, Gold is not evil. It is one one of the oldest physical currencies that most cultures still understand.

Thanks

Love of money is evil because it parasitically feeds on what is good.
Man has made money into his Master.
Just ask yourself: Does your money work for you, or do you work for your money?
Money is a tool, but the love of money is a disease, it is demonic;
I found one page in a book that perfectly describes why the love of money is evil:
Link to Google Books (https://books.google.com/books?id=JPJopPcoLgoC&pg=PA274&lpg=PA274&dq=man+has+no+center+within+himself&source=bl&ots=qDFunVZCMm&sig=oXjz_aaHnpiW_vd1R0B3yEzidug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKwta576DJAhXIJCYKHRPbBrkQ6AEIJjAC#v=onepage&q=man%20has%20no%20center%20within%20himself&f=false)

I don't think so. The root of all evil is the the human nature, greed, lust, lazy. We want money with any ways.

People need to some thing to blame their failure in a life so every one will find some thing blame like how you're asking gold is evil. First we need to change our self and try to live peacefully with what ever god had given to us. So both money and gold and people mentality are the evils.

Gold is a good friend: so far it has always been the best store of value: no offence to Bitcoin but that's a long way. And no gold is not the root of all evil. People are corrupted within themselves because of what gold represents ant symbolizes. Nothing else.

yes maybe you are correct! gold was very identic with evil,gold is precious for human,its a precious metal,and its not have static value like money,why gold is identic with evil?i think because evil idenctiswith temptation,evil always tempt a human for doing wrong,and they use gold for weapon,human love gold,and they cannot deny it,it why human on past time is mke their self on danger for sake a peice of gold,and make a wrong doing..

If there were no gold, there would be precious stone, if there were no precious stone, there will be precious wood, etc. Gold is just a symbol, an item people think is worth dying for.
Blame the people for being greedy - not the commodity for simply existing.

If Gold is evil than money is evil.

People have been making money of off Gold for centuries now.

Gold is just a lump from the ground. People are evil. If used tampons were the cast iron store of value then you'd be demonising that.

To be very honest as a literature student I have thoroughly studied Indian history and their customs .The kings ,rules ,warriors used tonwear gold as honor respect and sign of wealthiness .They did had money coins as well but gold was still expensive back then as everybody could afford to earn some pennies but gold was only in the favor of kings .No one really fought war for gold or money.The war was fought to come into the power and rule the land or to expand the empire .

Yeah that is true, Gold has a great impact on the mindsets of the people as they would do anything to hold gold with them and that also involves some criminal offense which people does for the possession of gold, and it is traditional even the kings and emperors have done in the past.

Bitcoins design makes its lifespan only 150 years.
When the last Bitcoins are mined, people will move on to a different currency.
It cannot exist for 1000s of years.

In a way I agree: if we will not be able to create a strong economy/ecosystem for it BTC will not have a long life.
Good insight, thank you!

People will do everything evil to do harm their fellow humans. It's within ourself and though many of us have a right balance, some people can't resist the temptation.

Be it gold, bitcoin or usd evertyhing of value will change how some people thing and what they are willing to do...

Well said, the corrupted mind of some people are causing greed. It's not the asset itself but ignorance and greed which make people evil.

I can't understand why so many people choose to scam instead of makeing an honest living..

Thats true but used tampons are nasty and have no value.

Gold has a charming or seducing aura around it that can make people do those evil things. Metaphorically it's like it's a possessed metal.

It's the nature of humans. Some are so weak or had a lack of education and thus choose the wrong path.

Frankly i can't feel bad for them, since it has to do with their bad karma.

No, all money is a simply a tool. Superstitious beliefs in authority (god and government) are the real evils. For example, gold is the medium, but the power of taxation is what compels people to fund war. If that wasn't the case then any corporation could start a war.

No people and his greedy is root of evil.Gold is just a metal.South Americans natives didnt care.Thay were using gold for roofs in his cities

that is not true. Gold has been used to store value for a very long time and is always appreciating. its qualities make people misuse for criminal activities but that does not make it evil. evil is usually in us and it depends on how we choose to use it.

Good observation that bitcoin can not be taken by force easily, this will dramatically reduce the motivation for robbery, just like Rothschild family successfully virtualized their assets thus become immune to physical threat from greedy monarchs: You can kill a banker but you can not get his wealth

As to gold, it was a widely accepted payment medium internationally. It gives the owner power to request goods/services from other people all over the world, peacefully, so it will give the owner great amount of freedom. It is the desire for freedom make gold valuable

However, nowadays gold has quit the circulation in most of the countries, so it is no longer a widely accepted payment medium. I think its price is artificially maintained by the central banks and large holders, a large dump of gold might crash its price to single digits. In a situation of world wide fiat money collapse, countries might select to accept payment in petroleum/electricity/raw material instead of gold since gold is really of no use in a crisis

agreed! gold isnt the the cause, its just that people has way of blaming things and make them look good with out it which is stupid,
even without gold people still do evil stuff. well basically people is the cause of evil.

It's not. We can't blame a physical object for the greed of all people. Far ago when there is still no gold where people uses anything to trade in exhange of something they want, there is already a greed. Be it if there is a gold or none, people gave value to anything so it's not the "gold" fault if people are greedy enough to fight over it.

OP has been listening to too much Pink Floyd. Gold is not the root of all evil it's the love of money that is the root of all evil. When people get too greedy, they do bad things to obtain assets like gold and oil. It is a sad fact that the governments of the  wo are corrupt and that is the status quo. Ìn time humanity will hopefully change.

Of course but that physical object is what makes people "sick"

You cant blame Uranium that causes people to die if they touch it, it's not  Uranium's fault, nontheless it does make people die, so maybe we should not play with it?

The same goes for gold, it's not gold's fault that it has this effect on people, but it does have a negative effect, so maybe we should not play with it?

But it requires more effort to hack into a PC than to pickpocket somebody.

The pickpocketers have lower IQ than PC hackers, thus since high IQ is rare, if everybody would use bitcoin, the amount of thefts would be much much rarer than with physical money.

so what do you suggest? if we remove gold another source of evil will come up. you said that gold and other physical object make people do bad
things, so what would you suggest? unless some says what will the alternative for gold and other physical object this conversation will never stop

I dont want to impose anything on anybody, I just put out interesting ideas.

My suggestion would be to drop gold and use bitcoin instead.

Considering a currency responsible instead of a person is just plain ludacris. Only a lunatic would even listen to such a statement.

Exposure to Uranium causes: dizziness, headache, lightheadedness, halucinations.

Exposure to Gold causes: extreme greed, evilness, and a tendancy to commit atrocities.


These metals both have their health effects on humans :D

I like that, however I don't agree. The greed is not caused by gold, it is caused by an internal sickness. Greed can be triggered by many items; money, gold, assets, fame, power etc.

So it is like a mental disease.

@OP: Regarding the past, you are right. Gold was a major factor in many wars; although oil has replaced it in last years.

But there is not a single asset that can be regarded as the "root of evil". It is more about scarcity of things generally. In the past, scarcity was very high in most societies; large portions of the population lived in what we today would call "extreme poverty" until the early 20th century. So a high-priced asset like gold could change the lives of many people, that's why greed of gold was so important in wars.

We actually move to a world where scarcity is not more so drastic than it was. Even in developing countries, there are growing middle classes that can satisfy most of their needs. I think single assets like gold and silver are losing terrain, more so if they have no real "intrinsic value" for the economy (or an inflated one, like in gold, which is used in electronics but is a minor factor there). Until renewable energies dominate our economies, oil/petroleum will still be relevant, because it has real use for the industry.

Bitcoin should not be viewed as an advancement because of its scarcity. That's why I'm not thinking it's the "digital gold". It should be viewed as a pretty efficient payment system. Bitcoin's scarcity is only relevant because it's a factor that has influence in its value stability.

Oil seems to be a temporary asset since the 1800s, plus nobody is interested in the instrinsic value of oil, because it doesnt have one, but rather in the energetic value of it.

When you see a barrel of oil you are not mesmerized, like if you would see a bar of gold. People could care less about the black liquid of petrol because there is nothing interesting in that, they only care about it's energetic value and heating effects.


Or in other words oil is just a raw material, that in itself doesnt have intrinsic value, only if you use it. And that is also temporary, once the oil cartels dissapear and we switch to clean energy: solar panels ,etc . Oil will worth then as much as a mud puddle.

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However gold was valuable since the first person saw it, from the first humans to the last humans, gold will mesmerize anybody and have it's charm on them.

So people who deny gold has a charm effect on humans please watch these pictures for a few seconds:

https://clarkstowncoin.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/gold-bars1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wo796kg9XPU/UkbOmBDhUuI/AAAAAAAAYk0/cEO_Bvj3AtE/s1600/gold+bars+wallpapers+hd.jpg

Now tell me that it doesnt invoke greed in you?

Just when you see these shiny bars your mind triggers and starts producing adrenaline and other chemicals that trigger your "greed instinct", and make you want to grab them out of your monitor :D


You see gold has a charm, and that charm can be dangerous.

If not gold it will be other metal or anything ... the unsatisfiable greed is the root of all evil.


My precioussssss : D

No other metal has a charm effect like gold has:   silver is shiny but not that defined and capturing, platinum is like silver , but only more value than gold because of scarcity.

However gold has the real charm aura around it, and there is no (discovered) metal in the universe that can replicate that.

Do you insist to know all metals? What you are saying about the gold is subjective.

Well i dont think there are any other metals (or for that matter any other substance) that is as charming as gold in the entire Universe.

We have discovered all elements until 120 protons I think. The isotopes are unstable,and the matter with 120+ protons are radioactive or decay very fast into less complex matter.

So basically the periodic table is all you got, and by far Gold is what stands out from it.


So I can safely say that it is not subjective, and gold indeed has a charm on all humans, and its the only substance in the universe to do this.

Some studies shown that even dogs where charmed by shiny gold.

subjective. Have you been outside the mother Earth? Do you dig deep into some asteroid?
Are we discovered all elements? Prove it.
subjective. Also there are theories that some elements are intentionally kept out from the current periodic table.
wrong assumption
links?
 :-*

You can just consider greed itself to be the root of all evil. We all know we want more than what we have. Even if we're the richest person on the planet, we would still want to have MORE.

Exactly what I was implying.

Shiny things induce pleasure.
Your point is only due to the fact that we know gold has greater value than many of the other common metals.

The scarcity of it also adds to what we know so far about it; of course you would want to get those gold bars!

If I show a kid who has NEVER seen anything except for a wall for 5 years a gold bar, they'll be interested by it! They'll have the same interest as if I show them a shiny silver bar. Or a copper bar. Or even glass.

Gold only has its "charm" because it is generally known that gold is valuable.
(It also looks nice and smooth)

What can you do before the coming melt down?

1.  demand honest money (gold and silver)

2.  support the underground economy

3.  Avoid taxes any way you can.  It's patriotic to withhold payments to a cuorrupt corporate state

4.  Be as self sufficient as you can.  It will help you in the future

5.  Join a network of like minded people

No, pleasure and greed are different things. Pleasure it induced by oxitocin and serotonin hormones , greed is by testosterone and adrenaline and others.

The feeling of you wanting to get those bars is exactly the work of those chemicals in your brain.

So yes gold affects you chemically, or from metaphysical point of view you can say that it's the devil's grasps.

Basic chemistry, we know for a fact that isotopes are unstable and that they look the same on the surface as their closest element.

Elements above 80 are all gray color and without much shining, even the newly discovered 114 element is gray, but it's so rare that you can see it only in microscope.

Other than that, other things are not solid. If you want antimatter or other strange matter to be your charm then its not a good example because these stuff are not solid.

So yes gold is the only solid, touchable and visible metal that has the biggest charm around it in the entire Universe.

Let's say that these pictures are all plastic blocks coated in Nordic Gold coating (which is used on Euros) - Copper 87%, Aluminium 5%, Zinc 5%, Tin 1% , they look exactly the same as gold bars, would that still make you feel charming?

If it is not charming any more, then it is the gold itself gives you feeling of charming. So all expensive things would also give you that charming feeling. If you still feel they are charming, then your charming definition is just a yellowish metal color, totally personal preference, has nothing to do with gold (I know lots of people hate yellowish color metal, they prefer white or black)

Yes, because I have no way of knowing that the gold is fake until I use an ultrasound machine on it, or weight it (plastic would weight much less).

Ancient texts could be Greece, we can learn so much still from knowing one of the first democracies.  Doesnt have to be religion at all, those lessons were true 900bc and are still needed to be known now

Gold is a representation, its not the creation of anything but an elemental metal.  The native americans just left gold on the floor, it wasnt as highly valued for them and as a very mobile population of people a heavy but soft object was not a useful item to them to carry round.


I think you are talking about greed really which is just a basic human attribute, if you look at children playing they'll still try to horde all the toys even when they can only play with one at a time.   Its not really gold just we all have flaws as humans.    As you grow up hopefully we recognise what is worth fighting over or what is productive, turns out toys can be shared with no loss maybe you even gain the use of others not your own and so on.  

Gold as a representation can be a positive, yes its just a useless blob mostly but its also a solid representation of value which can be passed around.  IF shared, something productive happens in society and to me this is what capitalism is about.    We can miss that point our whole lives but we are better off exchanging our work and resources between ourselves not hoarding value

If gold is the root of all evil, you can also say money is the root of all evil or bitcoin is the root of all evil.
The fact is: gold has nothing to do with evil.

As stated by many others, it are the people who are evil or are easy corrupted by greed. Blaming an assets is just plain ridiciculous.

more like the money is the root of the all evil in this world, because it create greediness, inequity, difference and then you have war

If you start form first principles, all economies beyond bartering require money, and gold is a major form of money (and so are silver, dollars and sterling, etc., throughout history.)

It's not surprising that people and states do evil things for money.  But you can't blame champagne and caviar for the things some people do to have this lifestyle.

I agree that Bitcoin holds several advantages over gold, as money.  But it also has disadvantages.  It requires electricity, and requires a certain literacy to understand.  And you can be sure that any small deficiency in this literacy on the part of the public will be fully exploited by some.

I think you're talking about power. Money is just the extension of power. People become corrupt because they want more power and more influence.


unlike gold bitcoin doesn't have a physical form, so you can't just steal it from governments and people. Does that mean we cant have wars over bitcoin?

Want I can say is everything when left to carry you along may be the source of evil. The reason I can say why people say that gold is the source of all evil is due to the worthiness and value it holds. People engage in evil deeds just to get a portion of gold and by having the perspective that gold will solve all the problem they have, many have fallen into trap. Be always careful that you do not reach a point where you are worship the gold and you can do without it.

yeah it's right, but the only for of power(megalomania) in this world is being rich and then famous, strength sadly don't count nothing, we are not in a anime

On a related note, I perform evil gold exorcisms. Just package up your gold and send it to me. I'll return to you pure and Godly chunks of Iron that are no threat at all. 

Gold is not evil in itself. It's is that's evil. We used gold as a currency, and people are naturally greedy, no matter how touch they are. It's a way of life.

We shouldn't hate gold. We should encourage each other to not be greedy. Greed and hate have caused more bad things than those you listed in the OP.

Yes, exactly this. If we would start to use potatoes for money tomorrow, then potatoes would be a root of all evil. Money, hold, potatoes, whatever, is just a medium of exchange. There is no problem in the medium if the exchange. There is just a problem in people and in all human race.

In the case you need any  help, just shoot me a PM, I would be happy to help you out.
BTW if you feel you are are vulnerable for greed, just sent me your gold too. I safeguard your gold until  you are cured.

Or you can just simply scratch the bar and see if shaves off or not.

Gold testers do this all the time when they sell a gold bar at places to cash in.

If it's deep enough it is hard to scratch. They can have 0.5 cm to 1 cm coat of gold around a wolfram/lead alloy bar, it would weight the same if it's mixed correctly, so the only way to detect it is if you measure the density by either using some liquid or an ultrasound machine.

Atleast bitcoin is fungible :D

Gold is easily measurable, its not a mystic art to compare its exact dimensions to its weight.    When gold coins were used, only one hundred years ago they would just have a clip in to fit the coin on a scale.   It had to both for a pure gold transaction, took 30 seconds tops

Gold is not the root of all evil.

It's how you use gold or how much you love gold or any of your possessions that makes it evil. Use it for good and not for evil.  :)

Gold is not an evil.
It is depends on how the person handles all the gold they have.

It's by the greediness of people, even though money helps you to have a good living.

Just in the bible says (1 Timothy 6:10) For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil...but money answers everything.  :)

I agree with you 100%.

If one handles all the gold they have carelessly and just waste it, better if they did not own any.

Gold is no more the root of all evil, stop using Fiat currency
Start using Bitcoins, no one can solely change the value of it :)

Great perspective. Money is a tool - nothing more, nothing less. Imagine the artist, the painter, the pilot - loving the machine/tool more than their creation or the feeling to fly.

Gold is just a material, the evil are we humans, don't need to blame gold or money.

Why would you use the Bible to denounce gold as evil?
Between gold and religion, which do you think has caused more destruction in this world?  ;D

Why can't bitcoin be used to fund wars? Maybe the governments already have a nice stack of coins sitting around just for that.

As long as there are companies that accept bitcoin for guns/tanks/planes/rockets/ whatever, bitcoin can be used for war.

Market cap might be too small though.

But here's the problem - we're assuming a government of a meaningful nation will ever adopt Bitcoin as its official currency. That'll never happen because of the reasons you state - government requires some degree of control over financial markets (through regulatory reserve banks) so they can modulate and respond to economic changes. Bitcoin doesn't allow for that to happen at all - it's completely a pure market - which means government will never see it as viable for official adoption.

I pretty much agree with and its such a important point, so easily missed but its true that limited currency will tend to limit war.   We're not talking absolutes here, obviously people can fight but without a leash a government can become a dangerous thing to its own people, to other people to everyone who isn't within that power its off the leash and dangerous.

We recognise that democracy limits power of those at the top, they are guided by a need to satisfy their population.  On the other hand people recognise also that democracy is not without faults, mistakes still occur but in the main its a force for good.

So what about the money side of things and I agree that a non fiat limit here like bitcoin has is going to reduce war.   The reason is that the population immediately feels pain from government overspending on sources of war, weapons and massive military build-up.  Either democracy breaks down and a military dictatorship occurs or more likely the average person stops this excessive military spending and so war is less likely in most cases and certainly pointless aggression is restricted as people know its costs.  

When debt and fiat currency allows for massive expansion without pain of this spending being felt, its making war more possible and almost always this war will be pointless, unneeded aggression that benefits neither side.   Most obviously world war 1 did not need to happen and nobody gained from millions of deaths, it is contrary to capitalism I will argue to engage in war and death, productivity is wasted on every side

I do disagree with you on gold being fiat.  Work must be done to enable its mining, this requires alot of effort and attention diverted from elsewhere.  There is a feedback effect to it as a source of capital.   yes technology has enabled greater mining but still its growth is restricted far more then we've seen with the Federal reserve fiat system which is basically a currency of promises and political bargaining between nations mostly to the detriment of powerless people

Gold is just a tool, a kind of money if you use it that way. You can use gold for good causes or bad causes. It depends on who use it.

good point! in old days many priests use their religion to abuse people.
so using bible to denounce gold is just ironic dont you think.

Gold is a naturally occurring metal, it can no more be evil (or root of evil) than the air you breathe. Power is perhaps the one you want to blame but then the existence power is sustained only by the human mind .
By deciding that gold is more precious than other metals you imbue it with power. The word 'more' is of strength and the word 'less' of weakness. Pointing at anything other than oneself is by far the most common trick people use to avoid judging themselves.

You say Bitcoin is morally superior to gold, but what about the mining farms that are using a lot of gigawatts of electricity and subsequently damaging the planet,
what do you have to say to that?

Gold is never been evil because its all time a great sign of love its just we are who are going to create all troubles for this beautiful word we need to talk and solve these things Gold is really Gold

What about the cyanide that is used to mine gold. Entire rivers have been devastated, and the ecological harm from gold mining is astronomical.

How do you compare that to mining bitcoin which is more efficient as the day goes by, and most people have even trying to build solar powered bitcoin mining, which is totally clean.

I wouldn't say gold is a great sign of love. It is merely a valued piece of metal which is backed by real life uses, and given value due to the scarcity and requirements of extracting it. I have a hard time following the rest of your statement, so that's my two cents.
Gold, in and of itself, is not evil. The methods of obtaining wealth are the real evils.

As said above, the pursuit of gathering gold have lead to the collapse of entire ecosystems, due to the toxic byproducts being dumped in the most convenient place possible. Cyanide causes entire rivers to be toxic and lethal for anything that drinks from it. Sometimes large areas are decimated as a means of getting gold (however the same areas may be reclaimed after the mining operation is completed).

Bitcoin farms, on the other hand, use far less metal materials than mining operations do. Having a group of circuits, fans and wires as opposed to giant metal shells with circuits, fans, wires, engines, and fuel is far less consuming. Plus the only "damage" caused by mining is the use of electricity; which can be procured by renewable means, such as solar or wind energy.

There is so much less ecological damage done by Bitcoin it doesn't even seem like this should be an argument.

if all of us starts using bitcoin gold will be nothing in no time.but people are still crazy for gold investment :(

Gold really isn't any evil in itself. Besides being pretty shipping, it's a commodity, and dirt could be of more value is we so choose. This evil you talk of comes from our greed, channelled through a simple metal; gold. See? We fight over a simple commodity. Why not dirt- oh wait, we already do :D

Some coins require nothing but an internet connection and a normal pc can transact while idling, basically making useful work from otherwise wasted computer time

He means the greed. Gold makes people greedy and let them do evil things.

So do you think it's evil?

Gold is not evil in itself. It is the hand of our evil. Or greed makes is want more, and we will go to the ends of the earth to get more. Gold is simply a commodity.

Why do you think only gold makes people greedy?

In my opinion any form of money is the problem for all kinds in issues today we are facing. It could be either oil, gas, bitcoin, gold, paper money or property. If any one got more of these things than many evil minded people will be behind them to take the benefits. For example If you see how developed countries put pressure on oil rich countries to take the full benefits.   

because gold started with a high value from the beginning(see the all time chart, it was at 400 since the beginning) so this seems that people really wanted good even before, so disperately that the demand was crazy already

A person with an honest job is ultimately working to satisfy the wants of others but is usually primarily driven by his desire for money.

Do you feel that such workers of past, gold-based economies were guilty of evil?

400 what?  Can you share this "all time chart"?

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/4accd39f0000000000c32ed4/the-most-important-gold-chart-there-is.jpg

but there are others, i don't know if they are reliable with the 1914 date, but as you see is even above 400

gold never remained to zero or very low value, even at beginning like bitcoin

I agree with you here.

IMO greed is an inherent human flaw - it doesn't matter whether it's gold in this case or money or assets - humans naturally have a want for more and more "stuff" and will work and fight for it appropriately. Saying that gold is the cause of greed (and that greed is the root of all evil - which I'd argue is not the case) is wrong.

Yes, exactly this! If we would introduce potatoes tomorrow as a former of currency, I am sure that these potatoes would become a source of all evil. You can't live with any format of money since it is apparently very evil but we couldn't have a world operating in any way without this "evil" money.

All this just to conclude that there is no problem in money, gold or potatoes,  but in us, the human beings!

That chart starts when the Federal Reserve was established in 1913.   This is not the start of gold or money, some say it was the beginning of the end. 

Exactly, a farmer is not evil because he performs work.  If he did not work, maybe he is heart broken becomes a drinker and just threw away his crops or did not bother to harvest or left them to mice and rats to eat then millions will starve who rely on his work.  Society would have to stop because their jobs or life relys on that source of food being reliably provided by these self motivated workers who earn money or gold.  
If the farmer becomes uninterested in money, all of society actually suffers.
   You can see some of these affects from communist or war torn countries, farmers are invaded by interests not reliant on money, they use force to gain assets.  Suddenly mass starvation even in arable healthy lands becomes possible.   This is far more evil then any profit for doing work.

  He wants gold because food goes off, its mass production and he must sell so demand and supply is behind a price, rather then politics or force this is actually a good in society

So you're saying the actual mining operations don't use huge amounts of electricity. In my opinion the legit mining operations are far worse for the climate, than bitcoin mining.

However gold mining does create more jobs than bitcoin farms.

True, physical mines do create more jobs, but at the same time we need people in other professions that are always available, such as being farm hands or becoming technicians. Even though jobs are created via mines, there should be alternatives for those jobs, even if they are not in the same industry.

I personally think that available jobs should be more diversified, but there are issues with the supply/demand economic models that prevent that from working as intended.

It's a shame that we have to destroy large areas just to create more jobs for people. (However I do realize it isn't as simple as that.)

It's merely an opinion, my friend. I personally don't like gold, although many do. I have more expensive tastes. I like black onyx, diamond, etc :D

There are more precious metals than gold and silver, which are way more precious and expensive: Platinum, Germanium, Paladium, Iridium ,etc..

But only Gold (and to some extend Silver) were the main players in the past. So that I why I specifically asked why gold has such an evil aura around it, not just precious metals in general.

I think its been blood diamonds that are more of an issue.   Gold is spread around the world, almost every country has a bit though most mined has come from south africa because a geographical feature but its available everywhere to national companies pretty much.   Problem with diamonds is that a militia can control sections of a country and become a massive player in that market because diamonds are far more rare, sporadic occurrence so you get wars and many evil acts from fighting violently for that country.

  GOld is really about productive industry competing for efficiency, mostly the trouble is straining it from the dirt well not controlling the whole area.   I was reading earlier how the military dictatorship in Burma centres or is funded by the trade in precious opals which they sell to China.  So many decades of tyranny are being paid for by that control of a mining area, other parts of the world dont get these stones so its a localised control by violence and corruption pretty much.     Even the drugs trade is more fairly distributed then this, innovative you could say with the shipping feasibly from anywhere hot almost

The native americans largely died from disease I think because they were distributed widely not tightly packed in towns so much as europeans had lived.  So they had never dealt with that level of viruses we bought over with us and our cattle.
    I dont consider gold at fault for this kind of colonial take over, not even the motivation.     The Spanish did get alot of gold but its known that they gained not so much as first thought as the price dropped, the work done was not as profitable due to excessive supply.  I think the real damage was because they could get away with conquering and taking lands, they had the superior technology.   If they went north to California they would have found gold on the floor but what good would it have really done them.  

  The slave trade was more of a motivation or reward for their evil actions as free labour is a versatile product, the Spanish just made a quite large mistake of wasting slave labour on mining a metal already available in excess.  There is already gold everywhere so gaining even more of a metal not that useful quickly feeds back as not especially profitable, its only a companion to useful industry and its usage as money that gold becomes worthwhile.   By itself gold is not the source of wealth in a society.
 Just like all these dollars they print, we'll all be worse off when they add up and realise we got too many for actual business done, because its not doing anything useful to print money.  We've wasted our time like the Spanish empire did, gold was less evil there as it became obvious with a dropping price the signal was sent not to keep mining.  Where is the signal in our dollar system to stop this route and do something more productive, in this case Chinese labour is being wasted under a communist regime except they are not slaves and I wonder how upset they might be when the dollars (trillions of treasury debt) turn worthless

I think the colonizers went for gold and other resources.

Why havent they colonized the islands near africa? They did that around 1700-1800.

For the natives they went in the 1600s, it was much closer, but they didnt because they knew that a small island doesnt matter.


They wanted the big land, the gold, and the other resources.

Gold is just gold. It is the same as rice or meat. We are the people trying to posses the goods. So we are the evil.

Yep, gold is just gold, although contributed a lot of human suffering, but it's just a metal, the demon is inside humans.

I just wanted to see a discussion about this, and you guys brought up nice arguments.