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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: evoorhees on November 21, 2012, 05:36:11 PM



Title: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: evoorhees on November 21, 2012, 05:36:11 PM
Wikipedia needs to answer for this...

Quote
"Wikipedia, in how many ways must we reiterate this hypocrisy which runs perfectly counter to your stated mission? Why is your prerequisite for donation that the medium be backed by coercion and tyranny? By what silly logic do you permit donations to advance your cause of openness via currency that is controlled, but not via that which is open? Why do you approve of the freedom of expression when it comes to speech, but not when it comes to money? Why do you value open-source knowledge, yet reject open-source exchange? This discrepancy cannot sit comfortably in your conscience, can it? Were you simply waiting for some other big player to make the first move when it comes to free and open exchange? Well, WordPress just did."

BitInstant Blog - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/11/20/the-full-faith-and-credit-of-wikipedia.html (http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/11/20/the-full-faith-and-credit-of-wikipedia.html)

Please retweet if you can:  https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/271305619837943809 (https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/271305619837943809)



Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on November 21, 2012, 06:13:43 PM
Wikipedia needs to answer for this...

Quote
"Wikipedia, in how many ways must we reiterate this hypocrisy which runs perfectly counter to your stated mission? Why is your prerequisite for donation that the medium be backed by coercion and tyranny? By what silly logic do you permit donations to advance your cause of openness via currency that is controlled, but not via that which is open? Why do you approve of the freedom of expression when it comes to speech, but not when it comes to money? Why do you value open-source knowledge, yet reject open-source exchange? This discrepancy cannot sit comfortably in your conscience, can it? Were you simply waiting for some other big player to make the first move when it comes to free and open exchange? Well, WordPress just did."

BitInstant Blog - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/11/20/the-full-faith-and-credit-of-wikipedia.html (http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/11/20/the-full-faith-and-credit-of-wikipedia.html)

Please retweet if you can:  https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/271305619837943809 (https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/271305619837943809)


I've retweeted! I'm about to read the article, but what's amazing is that prior to coming to this forum, I was thinking about you, envisioning YOU penning an article addressing Wikipedia.

~Bruno K~


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Jan on November 21, 2012, 06:33:33 PM
Erik, great article. You convinced me.
I think the culprit is that they are afraid of endorsing Bitcoin. They are depending too much on donations from people that believe that Bitcoin is drug money. The Wordpress news will hopefully steer the needle in the right direction for us.
Keep up the good work.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on November 21, 2012, 06:35:27 PM
And that is why you're my favorite writer (sorry Loup--you're still second). I did find one error, and you presented it twice. The yellow donation banner you spoke of was not only yellow, but a few other colors, carefully chosen to elicit readers at the subconscious level. In fact, during the onset of said campaign, I once purposely refreshed a Wikipedia page to reassure myself I wasn't seeing things. The other colors I remember are red, blue and green. Hopefully, another reader or two of this post will confirm.

This post, Erik, is no way being hyper-critical of your very fine article. It touches upon most everything I hoped it would--and more.

~Bruno K~


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: SgtSpike on November 21, 2012, 06:43:23 PM
Keep the pressure on...


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Stephen Gornick on November 21, 2012, 06:56:22 PM
Quote
Surely, WordPress also has ‘a fiduciary duty to be responsible and prudent with its money.’ What anomaly of WordPress enables it to prudently accept Bitcoin payments while Wikipedia stands idly by?
- http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/11/20/the-full-faith-and-credit-of-wikipedia.html
 
It was inevitable that some forward thinking industry leader (like WordPress) would look at Bitcoin, determine that it can be used to better the world, and embraces it.

Now that this message is out there, the excuses used in the past for rejecting bitcoin (like the EFF's and Wikipedia's) sound foolish, in hindsight.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Stephen Gornick on November 21, 2012, 06:59:34 PM
A similar argument was posted in another thread relating to the EFF's rejection of Bitcoin:

In light of the wordpress news is it time for EFF to drop their nonsensical no Bitcoin policy? 

[...]

I have donated heavily in the If the EFF can't be the advocate well they likely need to go away so someone else can.

Time for a renewed push to get EFF to accept Bitcoins?
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125405.0


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: jjiimm_64 on November 21, 2012, 07:17:36 PM
After the wordpress news, I sent an email to wikipedia as follows:

Quote
Hello,
I wanted to donate, but i don't see an option to donate with bitcoins.
When will this be available?

Jim

And this was the reply about a day later.

Quote
Josh VanDavier, Nov 19 21:36 (PST):

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your email and interest in supporting free knowledge. The Wikimedia Foundation, as a donor-driven organization, has a fiduciary duty to be responsible and prudent with its money. The Foundation does not currently accept Bitcoin or other currencies not backed by the full faith and credit of an issuing government. We do, however, strive to provide as many methods of donating as possible and continue to monitor Bitcoin with interest and may revisit this position should circumstances change.

Thank you again for your interest, and please feel free to contact us with any further questions.

Sincerely,

Joshua VanDavier
Donor Services Manager
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
https://wikimediafoundation.org
Support us: https://donate.wikimedia.org


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: MoonShadow on November 21, 2012, 07:22:11 PM
Quote
Surely, WordPress also has ‘a fiduciary duty to be responsible and prudent with its money.’ What anomaly of WordPress enables it to prudently accept Bitcoin payments while Wikipedia stands idly by?
- http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/11/20/the-full-faith-and-credit-of-wikipedia.html
 
It was inevitable that some forward thinking industry leader (like WordPress) would look at Bitcoin, determine that it can be used to better the world, and embraces it.

Now that this message is out there, the excuses used in the past for rejecting bitcoin (like the EFF's and Wikipedia's) sound foolish, in hindsight.


I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that WordPress has been getting more secret heat over this move than is known.  I wouldn't be surprised if they reverse themselves in a couple months, and then the detractors will use that as evidence that bitcoin doesn't really work for companies like WordPress.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Trader Steve on November 21, 2012, 07:23:06 PM
Great article.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: dserrano5 on November 21, 2012, 08:01:57 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they reverse themselves in a couple months, and then the detractors will use that as evidence that bitcoin doesn't really work for companies like WordPress.

That idea crossed my mind too but I rejected it right away, like, I don't want to think about that.

Erik, great post, in line with what can be expected from you.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: giszmo on November 21, 2012, 08:34:24 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they reverse themselves in a couple months, and then the detractors will use that as evidence that bitcoin doesn't really work for companies like WordPress.
That idea crossed my mind too but I rejected it right away, like, I don't want to think about that.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Jimmy_Wales_Fundraiser_Appeal_edit.jpg/220px-Jimmy_Wales_Fundraiser_Appeal_edit.jpg
That idea crossed his mind, too. He's got nothing to loose when waiting some months. He would have much to win/loose moving now though.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: knight22 on November 21, 2012, 08:59:02 PM
I just sent them an email to add some pressure.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: finkleshnorts on November 21, 2012, 09:05:12 PM
You would think that Jimmy Wales -- the porn guru -- wouldn't be afraid of bitcoin.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: giszmo on November 21, 2012, 09:12:49 PM
I just tried my very first submission to HN:
http://news.ycombinator.com/newest

Feel free to upvote it.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: imanikin on November 21, 2012, 11:10:09 PM
I agree with others who say that it's time to give up on trying to get Wikipedia to accept B donations.

We all know the real reasons why they don't do it.

Simply don't send them any support! I am sure they will be fine with fiat donations from others, and our conscience should be clear when we continue to use it for free!  ;D

Trying to convince them to accept it, makes us look desperate and needy.

As i've said before, if Bitcoin is big-enough idea to succeed, it's big enough to speak for itself now. We should just use it and improve it, and stop begging others to accept it.

When the fiat house of cards implodes in the right places, my bet is many entities will change their mind about B.

At that time, the ones that did not support B these days, will not get a satoshi or any other currency from me either...  :P 


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: jjiimm_64 on November 21, 2012, 11:19:53 PM
I agree with others who say that it's time to give up on trying to get Wikipedia to accept B donations.

We all know the real reasons why they don't do it.

Simply don't send them any support! I am sure they will be fine with fiat donations from others, and our conscience should be clear when we continue to use it for free!  ;D

Trying to convince them to accept it, makes us look desperate and needy.

As i've said before, if Bitcoin is big-enough idea to succeed, it's big enough to speak for itself now. We should just use it and improve it, and stop begging others to accept it.

When the fiat house of cards implodes in the right places, my bet is many entities will change their mind about B.

At that time, the ones that did not support B these days, will not get a satoshi or any other currency from me either...  :P 

Well put.  +1


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Bitcoin Oz on November 21, 2012, 11:32:45 PM
We should approach one of wikipedis's competitors.

http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Main_Page is a good start.

Or http://en.citizendium.org/


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: imanikin on November 21, 2012, 11:38:58 PM
We should approach one of wikipedis's competitors.

http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Main_Page is a good start.
Speaking of donations, when is the Douchebag Foundation (http://www.douchebagfoundation.org/donate/) going to accept Bitcoin?  :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: jojo69 on November 22, 2012, 02:31:24 AM
fucking coward

never used WordPress, but I think I will send them a little just because


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on November 22, 2012, 04:05:55 AM
We should approach one of wikipedis's competitors.

http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Main_Page is a good start.
Speaking of donations, when is the Douchebag Foundation (http://www.douchebagfoundation.org/donate/) going to accept Bitcoin?  :D :D :D :D


I'm not sure, but I guess it has something to do with "fluidity duty".


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Trader Steve on November 22, 2012, 05:42:18 AM
I agree with others who say that it's time to give up on trying to get Wikipedia to accept B donations.

We all know the real reasons why they don't do it.

Simply don't send them any support! I am sure they will be fine with fiat donations from others, and our conscience should be clear when we continue to use it for free!  ;D

Trying to convince them to accept it, makes us look desperate and needy.

As i've said before, if Bitcoin is big-enough idea to succeed, it's big enough to speak for itself now. We should just use it and improve it, and stop begging others to accept it.

When the fiat house of cards implodes in the right places, my bet is many entities will change their mind about B.

At that time, the ones that did not support B these days, will not get a satoshi or any other currency from me either...  :P  

Well put.  +1

+2 Although I think we need to keep putting out articles like Erik's to call out organizations who say one thing and do another.



Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: waspoza on November 22, 2012, 11:59:32 AM
Great article Erik!

How about sending tips to Wikipedia by Twitter to open their eyes a bit? Heres the instructions: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/13m7wo/flood_wikipedia_with_donations_by_twitter/


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Bitcoin Oz on November 22, 2012, 12:04:19 PM
We should approach one of wikipedis's competitors.

http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Main_Page is a good start.
Speaking of donations, when is the Douchebag Foundation (http://www.douchebagfoundation.org/donate/) going to accept Bitcoin?  :D :D :D :D


When Pirate pays everyone back.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Narydu on November 22, 2012, 01:36:29 PM
Excellent Article!!! Keep up the great job!!


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: BitCoiner2012 on November 22, 2012, 02:19:50 PM
I agree with others who say that it's time to give up on trying to get Wikipedia to accept B donations.

We all know the real reasons why they don't do it.

Simply don't send them any support! I am sure they will be fine with fiat donations from others, and our conscience should be clear when we continue to use it for free!  ;D

Trying to convince them to accept it, makes us look desperate and needy.

As i've said before, if Bitcoin is big-enough idea to succeed, it's big enough to speak for itself now. We should just use it and improve it, and stop begging others to accept it.

When the fiat house of cards implodes in the right places, my bet is many entities will change their mind about B.

At that time, the ones that did not support B these days, will not get a satoshi or any other currency from me either...  :P 
I feel BTC will survive on its merits. BTC is financial freedom. Fiat is inevitable failure. I will stick with silver and my BTC.   


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: jjiimm_64 on November 22, 2012, 02:33:24 PM


Lets face it.. fiat is not going to 'fail'

If that happened we would have total anarchy and I doubt many would be able to get to whatever was left of the internet.

I do believe btc will prosper as a commodity/currency.  Eventually more valuable then gold, but much more easily transferable and divisible. (note the eventually)


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: BitCoiner2012 on November 22, 2012, 02:36:32 PM


Lets face it.. fiat is not going to 'fail'

If that happened we would have total anarchy and I doubt many would be able to get to whatever was left of the internet.

I do believe btc will prosper as a commodity/currency.  Eventually more valuable then gold, but much more easily transferable and divisible. (note the eventually)
Anarchy is not a requirement for "failure". The freefall of value is failure enough for me. Things aren't getting better for USD over the next ten years.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Gabi on November 22, 2012, 03:08:50 PM
Fiat failed tons of times, it will happens again and again. And it happens to a major fiat, then it can drag in the black hole others too.....


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: jjiimm_64 on November 22, 2012, 03:46:48 PM


I think we need a glossary of tems.

define 'failure of fiat currency'.....  after some googling..  i have no idea!



Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: hazek on November 22, 2012, 04:48:40 PM


I think we need a glossary of tems.

define 'failure of fiat currency'.....  after some googling..  i have no idea!



google Zimbabwe dollar, Yougoslavian dinar, Argentinian peso, and so and so forth.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on November 22, 2012, 06:06:53 PM
You guys do know that Jimmy Wales was appointed as a UK government adviser (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Wikipedia-Jimmy-Wales-UK-Adviser-Government-Public-Policy,14978.html) in March this year? And that he married Tony Blair's former secretary (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9591824/Wiki-wedding-Wikipedia-founder-Jimmy-Wales-marries-Tony-Blairs-former-aide.html) last month?

So despite his apparent libertarian leaning and his knowledge of Hayek, he's well and truly part of the establishment now.

You can't advise governments or fall in love with somebody who works for goverment without abandoning libertarian principles?


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: DoomDumas on November 22, 2012, 07:25:30 PM
@ ERIK VOORHEES :

Very nice article, like it so much, I've forward it to few friends that does'nt follow BTC news even if involved in BTC !

Marvellous, Inteeligent, well writen !  Congratulations, I totaly agree with the entire article !

I'll also write to wikipedia, as already done before, as im willing to donate only in BTC.
EDIT:mail sent:

Quote
Hi,

Do you know that you can easily enable Bitcoin donation and automaticaly receive USD or any other currency you wish, without ever touching Bitcoin ?

If you accept donation in bitcoin, I can assure you that I will donate.  And a lot of other bitcoiner will do so.  Just follow WorldPress.com, and accept it.. sooner or later, bitcoin will become popular.

Just sayin' !

Thank you for the nice writing !

:D


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: imanikin on November 22, 2012, 07:57:28 PM
...
So despite his apparent libertarian leaning and his knowledge of Hayek, he's well and truly part of the establishment now.
+1 From my contact with them, it's clear to me that WikiMedia has become just another member of the establishment corporatocracy, which is another reason we should not be begging to donate to them.

Since they've shown their true colors, i won't support them again.

He doesn't seem to be the only "decider" on their decisions either.

It would be useful if when BitPay pops up a particular merchant's payment interface that it says on that page "Accepting Bitcoin since [date]".

That way, we could prioritize the merchants into those who were with Bitcoin "BW" (before WordPress) and AW (after WordPress), and we can then make the spending decisions accordingly.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Herodes on April 30, 2013, 11:29:33 PM
I found this quite funny:
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jimbo_Wales


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: Rarrikins on May 02, 2013, 02:34:27 PM
There are some decent arguments supporting their accepting bitcoins, including those that involve automatic conversions to US dollars or whatever, but I don't think the original post is a very good argument, unless you already agree with it.

Quote
Wikipedia, in how many ways must we reiterate this hypocrisy which runs perfectly counter to your stated mission?

Well, here's Wikimedia's stated mission (https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mission_statement):
Quote from: Wikimedia Foundation
The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.

In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Foundation provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of charge, in perpetuity.
There's nothing in there that even begins to suggest that bitcoin would be accepted by them.

Quote
Why is your prerequisite for donation that the medium be backed by coercion and tyranny? By what silly logic do you permit donations to advance your cause of openness via currency that is controlled, but not via that which is open?
What about their mission statement suggests that they're against control at all and for openness in anything but educational content they themselves provide?

Quote
Why do you approve of the freedom of expression when it comes to speech, but not when it comes to money?
They don't approve of freedom of expression, as you can see by all their policies preventing certain expressions, but even if they 'approved' of freedom of expression with money, why would they have to accept all forms of money rather than the kinds they freely chose based on whatever criteria they wanted?

The arguments also seem dishonest. The arguer isn't actually asking for every new currency that someone comes up with to be accepted by Wikipedia, but the argument is asking for that, as implied by the freedom of expression with money argument. Why would only one open currency be sufficient to satisfy that argument? Why couldn't everyone argue the same for their currency?

I get a different impression. As the EFF put it (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/06/eff-and-bitcoin/):
Quote
3. People were misconstruing our acceptance of Bitcoins as an endorsement of Bitcoin. We were concerned that some people may have participated in the Bitcoin project specifically because EFF accepted Bitcoins, and perhaps they therefore believed the investment in Bitcoins was secure and risk-free. While we’ve been following the Bitcoin movement with a great degree of interest, EFF has never endorsed Bitcoin. In fact, we generally don’t endorse any type of product or service – and Bitcoin is no exception.
This is directly what is being asked above: that Wikipedia not only accept bitcoins but that they do it through support of the ideological tenets above. Why should they?


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: caveden on October 21, 2013, 07:29:41 AM
Bumping this thread to ask if there's a copy of OP's text somewhere else?
BitInstant blog is no longer up.

Thanks.


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: malevolent on October 21, 2013, 11:30:50 AM
Bumping this thread to ask if there's a copy of OP's text somewhere else?

http://web.archive.org/web/20130401064214/http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/11/20/the-full-faith-and-credit-of-wikipedia.html


Title: Re: [BLOG] - The Full Faith and Credit of Wikipedia
Post by: TippingPoint on October 21, 2013, 03:55:21 PM
Quote
The Foundation does not currently accept Bitcoin or other currencies not backed by the full faith and credit of an issuing government.

Wikipedia speaks with forked tongue.

Quote
Why is your prerequisite for donation that the medium be backed by coercion and tyranny?  By what silly logic do you permit donations to advance your cause of openness via currency that is controlled, but not via that which is open? Why do you approve of the freedom of expression when it comes to speech, but not when it comes to money? Why do you value open-source knowledge, yet reject open-source exchange?