Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Computer hardware => Topic started by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 04:00:39 AM



Title: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 04:00:39 AM
Hi , i have 9 antminer s5 in stock and will sell them

the price would be 325$ in BTC each one

1 for 325$

2 for 620$

5 for 1500$

the all 9 i made an extra discount 280$/piece .

contact me !

https://s01-cdn.anonfiles.com/856cf0b248d9329a1428272c897b6b33.jpg
https://s01-cdn.anonfiles.com/4cf88c813a3a4d917db0d2e71620e5cf.jpg



Best regards

Mirages


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: ivcelmik on December 02, 2015, 04:23:03 AM
Hi , i have 9 antminer s5 in stock and will sell them

the price would be 325$ in BTC each one

1 for 325$

2 for 620$

5 for 1500$

the all 9 i made an extra discount 280$/piece .

contact me !


Best regards

Mirages

Can u post a picture with your Nickname and from where they are shipping?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Exoskeleton on December 02, 2015, 04:56:47 AM
Noob account, bad formatting, and bad grammar, bad sign. No location or mention of escrow. No pics.

Add to that a too good to be true price of $280 per unit and...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 05:27:11 AM
Noob account, bad formatting, and bad grammar, bad sign. No location or mention of escrow. No pics.

Add to that a too good to be true price of $280 per unit and...

it's the third post where i'mm called noob , it's not because i don't post on every thread i see that i'm a noob here ....
you can even see that i'm here till june ...

and for the fgrammar sorry i do my best i'm not native english speaker but french and also italian ...

yes i can upload picture of the 9 units , with nick and date , also with me if you want ^^ ...

i'm ok for escrow but i don't realy know how they work .

the miners will be sent from Belgium or France as i'm at the 2 countries limit.

and the price ... it's cause electricity here don't give me more opportunities to make they run , i just want to sell them cause they only can be usefull as heater ...
1th/S is approximatly 0.01 btc/day ... 3.40 euro and i'm nearly sure they consume more than that .

Mirages


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Tupsu on December 02, 2015, 10:47:42 AM
............1th/S is approximatly 0.01 btc/day ... 3.40 euro and i'm nearly sure they consume more than that .

Mirages

1TH/s = 0.0069155 BTC / day
 S5 = 0.007953 BTC /day   with the current level of difficulty


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 01:50:06 PM
............1th/S is approximatly 0.01 btc/day ... 3.40 euro and i'm nearly sure they consume more than that .

Mirages

1TH/s = 0.0069155 BTC / day
 S5 = 0.007953 BTC /day   with the current level of difficulty

thanks for that precision .

yes it will mine that everyday without overclocking .


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 02, 2015, 06:19:28 PM
ESCROW or no?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: realestone on December 02, 2015, 06:57:02 PM
Hi , i have 9 antminer s5 in stock and will sell them

the price would be 325$ in BTC each one

1 for 325$

2 for 620$

5 for 1500$

the all 9 i made an extra discount 280$/piece .

contact me !


Best regards

Mirages

how about you post some images for verification i may be interested if your located inside the usa


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 07:09:37 PM
pics uploaded guys

i ned money quickly , so i can offer a PSU with each miner bought
if possible not escrow as i realy need this money quiclky for other business.

i can provide a copy of my identity paper , there is my adress on it , so you can find me back ... or take some pursuit agains me ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: HmmMAA on December 02, 2015, 07:31:12 PM
pics uploaded guys

i ned money quickly , so i can offer a PSU with each miner bought
if possible not escrow as i realy need this money quiclky for other business.

i can provide a copy of my identity paper , there is my adress on it , so you can find me back ... or take some pursuit agains me ...

I think that there's no possibility to find a non local buyer without escrow . Only chance is if you decide to take the risk and send first to someone trusted .


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: gerald-80 on December 02, 2015, 07:33:33 PM
Where are you from? Which country which state? Are you going to cover the shipping fees


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 07:40:38 PM
I'm from France but will send from Belgium as i work there and be there in the journey the open days ^^. ( I'm at the limit of the 2 countries )
More precisely the 59 in France

hum for the fees it depends on where i must send , i'll not cover 50€ shipping fees ^^ .


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 07:42:51 PM
ESCROW or no?

as i'm trying to reach one for another sale and it's now 1 day that i don't find one , i prefer to do direct transactions .
i can provide a copy of my identity card with my adress on the back and all informations to take any pursuit against me ...



Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: VirosaGITS on December 02, 2015, 07:48:10 PM
ESCROW or no?

as i'm trying to reach one for another sale and it's now 1 day that i don't find one , i prefer to do direct transactions .
i can provide a copy of my identity card with my adress on the back and all informations to take any pursuit against me ...



I'm sorry thats not really worth anything. And the one thing you learn not to do on online trades is to rush the transaction. If you're getting pushed into sending money quick, you're getting scammed.

So anyways, i could be interested in 2 or 3, if you send to Canada and when the units happen to be working, then i could pay. I think that's as close to no escrow as i or mostly anyone can offer, short of face to face transaction, which could be arranged, just not by me.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 02, 2015, 07:51:45 PM
ESCROW or no?

as i'm trying to reach one for another sale and it's now 1 day that i don't find one , i prefer to do direct transactions .
i can provide a copy of my identity card with my adress on the back and all informations to take any pursuit against me ...



No identity card bvllshit.

Either you accept escrow or ill report this thread to the mod since its a scam.


 


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: mavericklm on December 02, 2015, 08:34:50 PM
I would buy all 9 pieces if:

1 escrow!

2 print screens from each miner

3 miners are rev above 1.3 and the blades are the 18pins variety

thx!


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 08:43:38 PM
ESCROW or no?

as i'm trying to reach one for another sale and it's now 1 day that i don't find one , i prefer to do direct transactions .
i can provide a copy of my identity card with my adress on the back and all informations to take any pursuit against me ...



No identity card bvllshit.

Either you accept escrow or ill report this thread to the mod since its a scam.


 

do whatever you want , it's my selling thread , i need money quiclky so i don't accept escrow . if you don't agree please go take a run another part ...

and seeing what the escrows does here ... i'm trying to join one from yesterday and no one can help for escrowing a transaction ... i have proofs in my messages, i can share SS if u want ...

so thanks but no thanks !


if someone can trust me an buy me my units i'll get my coins ... but i'll not wait 2 weeks of shipping time to have my money, i need it as quick as possible, i have debts to pay !



Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Sweminer777 on December 02, 2015, 08:54:56 PM
I am interested, i can come to belgium and pick them  up at the airport?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 08:57:12 PM
I am interested, i can come to belgium and pick them  up at the airport?
µ

it's a joke ? with your trust counter i only wait for fake bills ^^ btc , iship with tracking


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Sweminer777 on December 02, 2015, 08:59:21 PM
If you can't deliver by hand then this is a scam.





Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 02, 2015, 09:17:39 PM
i can , but not for false money ^^


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: VirosaGITS on December 02, 2015, 10:05:53 PM
i can , but not for false money ^^


He could pay with a certified Cheque at a bank, i'm not sure why you're so reluctant to also accept face to face/local pickup as well as escrow. Seeing how difficult it is to make fake money with the new Plexiglas bills nowadays....

And you're also refusing Escrow because "I want the money asap", where you could take a deal right now and get your money later this week, instead of waiting days or weeks to find someone to pay you direct.

If you're trying to get the scammer tag, you're doing great.




Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 03, 2015, 12:05:58 AM
yes sure , but everybody is so affraid here , this evening i've made a transaction without escrow as the online one won't to take the product in escrow .
paysafecard !

finally found a buyer , and waiting waiting waiting , finally decided to go first and to give him the code , fortunately i don't be scammed ... as you can see everyone is not bad !

just trust me , you wouldn't regret .

good evening everybody


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 03, 2015, 12:13:05 AM
yes sure , but everybody is so affraid here , this evening i've made a transaction without escrow as the online one won't to take the product in escrow .
paysafecard !

finally found a buyer , and waiting waiting waiting , finally decided to go first and to give him the code , fortunately i don't be scammed ... as you can see everyone is not bad !

just trust me , you wouldn't regret .

good evening everybody

Since you refuse escrow AND a local meet this is definitely a scam.

So unless you can prove otherwise im reporting this thread.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 03, 2015, 12:30:49 AM
it's no scam , but i just says that i would the money asap , and ship the miner the next working day ,
you all came to waste my thread ....

so stop please .

i made a pic of the units , with my name and date , what would you ? a dayli pic to be sure they stay there ... don't worry unless someone buy them they'll don't move


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: VirosaGITS on December 03, 2015, 01:35:43 AM
it's no scam , but i just says that i would the money asap , and ship the miner the next working day ,
you all came to waste my thread ....

so stop please .

i made a pic of the units , with my name and date , what would you ? a dayli pic to be sure they stay there ... don't worry unless someone buy them they'll don't move

Someone offered to do it face to face and you said no. Not much else to say.

And okay but if someone decide to send you 8 BTC first, that person deserve to get scammed. (Sorry, eh?)

I would think in a few days you will not have found a buyer and then having refused escrow because you "wanted the money quick" will have been moot, since you would of had your money by then.

You already have red feedback now so... *shrug*


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 03, 2015, 02:31:09 AM
Someone offered to do it face to face and you said no. Not much else to say.

And okay but if someone decide to send you 8 BTC first, that person deserve to get scammed. (Sorry, eh?)

I would think in a few days you will not have found a buyer and then having refused escrow because you "wanted the money quick" will have been moot, since you would of had your money by then.

You already have red feedback now so... *shrug*

someone offered to take 9 units of approximately 4 Kg at an airport gate ... here is what was offered ^^.

if someone would like just to buy one he will be able to repport that he have recieved the item after the time the delivery will take ...

but you are all scarred about to buy something without escrow , and i just in need of money asap ... we can't speak it's all ...

and i can add that i've a friend that have 7units of S3 to sell for 80€+shipping fees and asked me to make an offer here but it is useless ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 03, 2015, 02:35:31 AM
i just now understant how poeples have 400 post , sr member status so ^^

just coming on thread like this one , and scream to supposed scam  ;D


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: realestone on December 03, 2015, 03:08:27 AM
i just now understant how poeples have 400 post , sr member status so ^^

just coming on thread like this one , and scream to supposed scam  ;D

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 03, 2015, 03:16:17 AM

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 :-\ another message leaved unless interest ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: ezeminer on December 03, 2015, 03:28:45 AM

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 :-\ another message leaved unless interest ...

Many of the older members have seen and/or experienced scams first hand. The reason why the community is hostile is because they want you to prove yourself before you might be accepted. If you trade and interact with more known/trusted people the better you can gain rep.

The reason why this screams scam is:
  • Local sale, just "random luck". Never usually happens
  • Doesn't accept escrow because need funds "now". This almost never works here as funds need to be trustfully traded.
  • Refusing a face-to-face sale is never really good, btc is irreversible transactions.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: VirosaGITS on December 03, 2015, 03:44:11 AM
i just now understant how poeples have 400 post , sr member status so ^^

just coming on thread like this one , and scream to supposed scam  ;D

That is because people aren't going to trust someone that act like the 100 proven scammers that came before, just in the last week. Its not particularly hard to understand. You're allowed to refuse to escrow, but when you try to justify and push people into doing it regardless, you just exactly did, down to the last points, what all the proven scammers do.

So in the 1% chance that you are not a scammer, people will ignore your offer and in 2-3 days when you would have received your funds if you went with escrow, you will have no more arguments.

For your friends, if he really has S3 for sale, he can find a buyer. If he accept escrow, of course. Though myself am only interested in the S5's.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: larry12 on December 03, 2015, 03:00:54 PM
just trust me , you wouldn't regret .

http://campusriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/laugh-gif.gif



Are u fucking kidding us ? Dont wanna use escrow, you refuse a personal meet and you expect somebody to send you ~3000$ just because you're saying youre honest person...... come on mate, are u from another world ?



ps : its not offtopic, i'm interrested in buying all 9 units but we will use @OgNasty as escrow, just say you're ok and i will put the coins in @OgNasty escrow wallet  ;)

ps 2 : no way to send payment upfront  ;)


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 03, 2015, 04:29:15 PM
just trust me , you wouldn't regret .

http://campusriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/laugh-gif.gif



Are u fucking kidding us ? Dont wanna use escrow, you refuse a personal meet and you expect somebody to send you ~3000$ just because you're saying youre honest person...... come on mate, are u from another world ?



ps : its not offtopic, i'm interrested in buying all 9 units but we will use @OgNasty as escrow, just say you're ok and i will put the coins in @OgNasty escrow wallet  ;)

ps 2 : no way to send payment upfront  ;)

i don't refuse a personal meet , just that guy was kidding on this thread , coming to an airport gatre taking about 40Kg of electronics ? with billet cost etc .. it was a joke and you are al breaking my b**** here . i don't expect someone to send me 3K$ .

where are you from and how much time will it take to recieve ? my other option is a second hand shop that is ok to take they back for 250€ it will be a great lost but as nobody will to buy them directly ...

yesterday i trusted someone on this forum , going first giving a 50 EURO paysafecard code to him to check it before paying me ... he was totally capable to scam me if he would ... i just trusted him .

i've also a PS4 to sell under the same conditions , no escrow i need that fucking money , a uk guy contacted me i hope the shipping fees will be good for him and it will be done , to uk i know< he will recieve the PS4 approx 1 week after and i hope he will let a post cosing all you mouth saying that i've not scammed him


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: HmmMAA on December 03, 2015, 04:53:01 PM
just trust me , you wouldn't regret .

i've also a PS4 to sell under the same conditions , no escrow i need that fucking money , a uk guy contacted me i hope the shipping fees will be good for him and it will be done , to uk i know< he will recieve the PS4 approx 1 week after and i hope he will let a post cosing all you mouth saying that i've not scammed him [/b][/u]

You're gonna lose more than 7 days that the escrower would hold your money that way . Accept escrow and you won't regret it if you are a honest guy . I'm sure there are many buyers near you that shipping won't be 7 days . You allready lost one day .


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: ezeminer on December 03, 2015, 04:59:20 PM
just trust me , you wouldn't regret .

http://campusriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/laugh-gif.gif



Are u fucking kidding us ? Dont wanna use escrow, you refuse a personal meet and you expect somebody to send you ~3000$ just because you're saying youre honest person...... come on mate, are u from another world ?



ps : its not offtopic, i'm interrested in buying all 9 units but we will use @OgNasty as escrow, just say you're ok and i will put the coins in @OgNasty escrow wallet  ;)

ps 2 : no way to send payment upfront  ;)

i don't refuse a personal meet , just that guy was kidding on this thread , coming to an airport gatre taking about 40Kg of electronics ? with billet cost etc .. it was a joke and you are al breaking my b**** here . i don't expect someone to send me 3K$ .

where are you from and how much time will it take to recieve ? my other option is a second hand shop that is ok to take they back for 250€ it will be a great lost but as nobody will to buy them directly ...

yesterday i trusted someone on this forum , going first giving a 50 EURO paysafecard code to him to check it before paying me ... he was totally capable to scam me if he would ... i just trusted him .

i've also a PS4 to sell under the same conditions , no escrow i need that fucking money , a uk guy contacted me i hope the shipping fees will be good for him and it will be done , to uk i know< he will recieve the PS4 approx 1 week after and i hope he will let a post cosing all you mouth saying that i've not scammed him

You take huge risks not using an escrow. I find that funny it was with a guy barely a month old. Again people have been burned too many times on this forum and are vigilant.

But hey it is your loss. Go sell to a second hand shop then. If you don't take an escrow then it is your loss with many members here. But don't take an overwhelming response from the community to understand.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: hedgy73 on December 03, 2015, 05:09:20 PM
Lots of scammers on here lately it's no wonder people are being over cautious.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: larry12 on December 03, 2015, 06:59:47 PM
just trust me , you wouldn't regret .

http://campusriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/laugh-gif.gif



Are u fucking kidding us ? Dont wanna use escrow, you refuse a personal meet and you expect somebody to send you ~3000$ just because you're saying youre honest person...... come on mate, are u from another world ?



ps : its not offtopic, i'm interrested in buying all 9 units but we will use @OgNasty as escrow, just say you're ok and i will put the coins in @OgNasty escrow wallet  ;)

ps 2 : no way to send payment upfront  ;)

i don't refuse a personal meet , just that guy was kidding on this thread , coming to an airport gatre taking about 40Kg of electronics ? with billet cost etc .. it was a joke and you are al breaking my b**** here . i don't expect someone to send me 3K$ .

where are you from and how much time will it take to recieve ? my other option is a second hand shop that is ok to take they back for 250€ it will be a great lost but as nobody will to buy them directly ...

yesterday i trusted someone on this forum , going first giving a 50 EURO paysafecard code to him to check it before paying me ... he was totally capable to scam me if he would ... i just trusted him .

i've also a PS4 to sell under the same conditions , no escrow i need that fucking money , a uk guy contacted me i hope the shipping fees will be good for him and it will be done , to uk i know< he will recieve the PS4 approx 1 week after and i hope he will let a post cosing all you mouth saying that i've not scammed him



The shipping time to my country is about 4-5 days from any EU country. Nothing personal but i dont care what deal you’ve made before, in this case we are not talking for 50E we are talking for 2700$ ...... also i think all of us need money, but the chance to sell 9x Antminer S5 with upfront payment = 0


ps : my offer is still valid, if u decide to use escrow PM me i will put the coins in @OgNasty wallet  ;)



ps 2 : for what kind of second hand shop we are talking about ?

1 EUR = 1.09 USD
so 250 EUR  = 272.5 USD

9 x 280$ = 2520$ if u sell them here.
9 x 272.5$ = 2452.5$

you loss if u sell them to a second hand shop - 67.5$

So i why the f*ck dont sell them to the pawn shop if u can really can get 250E per unit and u need the money really fast  ???


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 03, 2015, 07:04:43 PM
I didn't think any second hand shops would even buy mining equipment. Surprised they know what it is even.

The PS4 you can easily take to a second hand shop and get money right away, as long as its not stolen.

If you accepted escrow right away, you would be a day or two away from getting your BTC. Alot of people interested in this just do escrow and finally get them sold.



Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: wikkidtt on December 04, 2015, 04:09:17 AM
What would shipping be to 45218. USA for two


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 04, 2015, 04:20:15 AM
32.80 €/ unit by the nationnal post. in world-sending

you can check the prices here : http://www.bpost.be/site/en/residential/pricing/prices.html#

i can maybe check for another way of shipping but i usualy use them cause the insurance for 250€ value is 5 € ... and always take it for the buyer in case of dammages in the travel ...

but as i said it's without escrow for me.

i hope that my UK buyer for the ps4 will take it , it will give me a trust point ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Ares~ on December 04, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
Are these all for sale still, where in Belgium is the hardware?
Is escrow and/or meetup still not a option, I am in South of England so not a far drive for me?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: larry12 on December 04, 2015, 05:24:37 PM


i hope that my UK buyer for the ps4 will take it , it will give me a trust point ...


And u think that if somebody come here on this topic and said “Hey i bought ps4 from @Mirages, he’s a nice guy” the potential buyer will send you 9x 280$ for the Ants without Escrow ?

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/yeah_sure_jon_hamm.gif


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 04, 2015, 08:54:02 PM
i've not said that , just that will also proff i'm honest ... in my trades .


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: mavericklm on December 04, 2015, 08:58:13 PM
no escrow???

SCAAAAAAAM!!!

I see nothing else to discuss.... only you getting your trust red and with minus


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 05, 2015, 12:58:15 AM
no escrow???

SCAAAAAAAM!!!

I see nothing else to discuss.... only you getting your trust red and with minus


beffore ro speak about mu thrust see you'r an let me in peace man.

 
Are these all for sale still, where in Belgium is the hardware?
Is escrow and/or meetup still not a option, I am in South of England so not a far drive for me?

i'm at the french/belgian/Luxembourg border in Arlon zone a little town near . yes it could be good , you plan to come from Calais by ferry ?




Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: PassThePopcorn on December 05, 2015, 01:39:04 AM
no escrow???

SCAAAAAAAM!!!

I see nothing else to discuss.... only you getting your trust red and with minus


beffore ro speak about mu thrust see you'r an let me in peace man.


If you read how he received the red trust by going to his profile you can tell it was by making a user angry and based on his successful trades with many more users I'd feel safe doing a transaction with him even with the red. You should always use your own due diligence, the trust system isn't immune to abuse.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: ezeminer on December 05, 2015, 01:47:22 AM
no escrow???

SCAAAAAAAM!!!

I see nothing else to discuss.... only you getting your trust red and with minus


beffore ro speak about mu thrust see you'r an let me in peace man.


If you read how he received the red trust by going to his profile you can tell it was by making a user angry and based on his successful trades with many more users I'd feel safe doing a transaction with him even with the red. You should always use your own due diligence, the trust system isn't immune to abuse.
It really isn't an immune system. People have done trust trading, abusing one feedback from a good member. It never ends well.

The only reason I didn't leave a negative trust is, to give him a chance. I only caution users


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: va23boam on December 05, 2015, 04:28:05 AM
no escrow???

SCAAAAAAAM!!!

I see nothing else to discuss.... only you getting your trust red and with minus


beffore ro speak about mu thrust see you'r an let me in peace man.

 
Are these all for sale still, where in Belgium is the hardware?
Is escrow and/or meetup still not a option, I am in South of England so not a far drive for me?

i'm at the french/belgian/Luxembourg border in Arlon zone a little town near . yes it could be good , you plan to come from Calais by ferry ?




stop talking rubbish and post a pic of the miners with ur username and date in it.

otherwise close this waste of time thread


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 05, 2015, 05:12:51 AM
no escrow???

SCAAAAAAAM!!!

I see nothing else to discuss.... only you getting your trust red and with minus


beffore ro speak about mu thrust see you'r an let me in peace man.

 
Are these all for sale still, where in Belgium is the hardware?
Is escrow and/or meetup still not a option, I am in South of England so not a far drive for me?

i'm at the french/belgian/Luxembourg border in Arlon zone a little town near . yes it could be good , you plan to come from Calais by ferry ?




stop talking rubbish and post a pic of the miners with ur username and date in it.

otherwise close this waste of time thread

photos has added the 2 december .. please read a thread before asking something already provided ....


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: VirosaGITS on December 05, 2015, 05:21:44 AM
no escrow???

SCAAAAAAAM!!!

I see nothing else to discuss.... only you getting your trust red and with minus


beffore ro speak about mu thrust see you'r an let me in peace man.

 
Are these all for sale still, where in Belgium is the hardware?
Is escrow and/or meetup still not a option, I am in South of England so not a far drive for me?

i'm at the french/belgian/Luxembourg border in Arlon zone a little town near . yes it could be good , you plan to come from Calais by ferry ?




stop talking rubbish and post a pic of the miners with ur username and date in it.

otherwise close this waste of time thread

photos has added the 2 december .. please read a thread before asking something already provided ....

Look at your OP, they are not there. There are only dead links there. I did see them the other day, before they went down, but they don't do much anyways.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 05, 2015, 09:08:23 AM
He did have photos in the original post.

There were 2 photos with his username showing and looked like the miners were in some slanted closet which looked like it was about to collapse with the added weight.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Tupsu on December 05, 2015, 12:30:15 PM




stop talking rubbish and post a pic of the miners with ur username and date in it.

otherwise close this waste of time thread


Yes, va23boam. stop talking(asking) rubbish.
Learn how to use this forum, then you can see the pictures.

https://s01-cdn.anonfiles.com/856cf0b248d9329a1428272c897b6b33.jpg
https://s01-cdn.anonfiles.com/4cf88c813a3a4d917db0d2e71620e5cf.jpg


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 05, 2015, 07:43:32 PM




stop talking rubbish and post a pic of the miners with ur username and date in it.

otherwise close this waste of time thread


Yes, va23boam. stop talking(asking) rubbish.
Learn how to use this forum, then you can see the pictures.

https://s01-cdn.anonfiles.com/856cf0b248d9329a1428272c897b6b33.jpg
https://s01-cdn.anonfiles.com/4cf88c813a3a4d917db0d2e71620e5cf.jpg


finally someone who realy try to see before saying shit . thanks !


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Ares~ on December 05, 2015, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: Mirages

Are these all for sale still, where in Belgium is the hardware?
Is escrow and/or meetup still not a option, I am in South of England so not a far drive for me?

i'm at the french/belgian/Luxembourg border in Arlon zone a little town near . yes it could be good , you plan to come from Calais by ferry ?


Yes i would go on the ferry but that is too far a drive, 7 hours one way.
Pity you will not use escrow.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: HmmMAA on December 05, 2015, 08:47:09 PM
Day 4 passed . Going to day 5 . If you had accepted escrow from the begining you would already been paid . Let's see in how many more days you will sell ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 05, 2015, 09:03:54 PM
Day 4 passed . Going to day 5 . If you had accepted escrow from the begining you would already been paid . Let's see in how many more days you will sell ...

This is exactly what I am thinking. This will never sell without escrow anyways.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 05, 2015, 10:58:07 PM
it's realy a damn that those threads are opened to ball breakers able to come to say you what to do ... and discuss it for 3 pages .... a waste of time, but you earn posts ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 05, 2015, 11:12:53 PM
What is your main language? I will go to Google and translate it for you because you can't seem to get it thru your head that "UNLESS YOU ACCEPT ESCROW, NOBODY WILL BUY THESE, EVER!!!".

You are selling your friends S3's with escrow, why won't you accept escrow for these ?




Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: VirosaGITS on December 05, 2015, 11:29:57 PM
it's realy a damn that those threads are opened to ball breakers able to come to say you what to do ... and discuss it for 3 pages .... a waste of time, but you earn posts ...

Remember days ago i told you, if you accepted the offered escrow deal at that moment, you will get your money faster than if you refuse to use escrow?

Well from what i understand, you still have not sold them, so this is what i meant; if you had listened to me then, you would be getting your money, now. =/

3k USD is not an amount of money many people on the forum are willing to risk and write-off as an acceptable loss. Insulting and trashing about users that are telling you deal otherwise, is not going to be really productive.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: larry12 on December 06, 2015, 11:15:50 AM
Day 4 passed . Going to day 5 . If you had accepted escrow from the begining you would already been paid . Let's see in how many more days you will sell ...

This is exactly what I am thinking. This will never sell without escrow anyways.


My offer is still valid i will buy all of them if we use @OgNasty as escrow
If he send me the ants on monday they will arrive to me maybe Friday.......





Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 10, 2015, 11:29:44 AM
I've asked to my girlfriend to put them on ebay. i've found lower expedition fees .

you can find them here : http://www.befr.ebay.be/sch/petitpois912/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

there who want a guaranty canbuy by paypal and have a chargeback option in case of problem !!!

but i just don't trust anybody to have my money in hands waiting to release that to me ...

so if you'r interrested you can buy them there .


sorry for past answer but Escrow was absolutely not an option for me trading on a forum without other rules and dispute option ...


Regards to all the community .


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: larry12 on December 10, 2015, 11:54:08 AM
8 days after the topic was published.....the ants are still for sale.....  ;) You dont believe in escrow providers ? You’ve made my day  ;D


NOBODY here will buy from u without escrow just because you’re saying you’re honest trader.....


Good Luck
larry12


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 10, 2015, 12:11:59 PM
8 days after the topic was published.....the ants are still for sale.....  ;) You dont believe in escrow providers ? You’ve made my day  ;D


NOBODY here will buy from u without escrow just because you’re saying you’re honest trader.....


Good Luck
larry12

it's cause of that i asked to my GF to put them on ebay , that way , buyers may have a chargeback guaranty ... with the paypal guarantee ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Chronikka on December 10, 2015, 04:11:23 PM
8 days after the topic was published.....the ants are still for sale.....  ;) You dont believe in escrow providers ? You’ve made my day  ;D


NOBODY here will buy from u without escrow just because you’re saying you’re honest trader.....


Good Luck
larry12

it's cause of that i asked to my GF to put them on ebay , that way , buyers may have a chargeback guaranty ... with the paypal guarantee ...

You will also lose more than 10% of your sale price in fees to Ebay/Paypal.  It would cost you less just to accept escrow here on the forum.

But in any case, mind posting the link to your Ebay auction? You know in case somebody here actually does want to buy them?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: ezeminer on December 10, 2015, 05:34:41 PM
8 days after the topic was published.....the ants are still for sale.....  ;) You dont believe in escrow providers ? You’ve made my day  ;D


NOBODY here will buy from u without escrow just because you’re saying you’re honest trader.....


Good Luck
larry12

it's cause of that i asked to my GF to put them on ebay , that way , buyers may have a chargeback guaranty ... with the paypal guarantee ...

You will also lose more than 10% of your sale price in fees to Ebay/Paypal.  It would cost you less just to accept escrow here on the forum.

But in any case, mind posting the link to your Ebay auction? You know in case somebody here actually does want to buy them?
He loses a nice market share of buyers, but he doesn't care.
Also loses 10% on ebay, but he doesn't care.
Could use an escrow and have buyer pay for it, but he doesn't care.
Could start to build a reputation for himself, but he doesn't care.
Could have taken advice of all the other members here, but he doesn't care.

Funny pattern here ^_^


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: albertjacob on December 10, 2015, 06:26:56 PM
Not Interest on your service.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 10, 2015, 08:24:14 PM
ho guys wil you finally shut your mouths if you were'nt interrested in buying :D


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: iglasses on December 10, 2015, 08:54:56 PM
No we won't because this is a COMMUNITY and the people who know better are doing their best to keep the people who don't from getting ripped off by scum like you.

You are a piece of shit thief (and not even a particularly bright one) and there is ZERO chance that anyone who sent you any BTC would ever receive a miner.

Go away.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: ezeminer on December 10, 2015, 09:22:09 PM
No we won't because this is a COMMUNITY and the people who know better are doing their best to keep the people who don't from getting ripped off by scum like you.

You are a piece of shit thief (and not even a particularly bright one) and there is ZERO chance that anyone who sent you any BTC would ever receive a miner.

Go away.
The only reason we do this, is to scrutinize people and get them to earn the communities' trust. People in the community want to see bitcoin grow and develop with a good representation to the world. Nobody here wants more newbies to fall victim to sad scams.

If you can't agree to those terms, then you should probably find some other community to try and deface.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 10, 2015, 10:07:36 PM
You are taking a HUGE risk by selling on eBay right now.

Right now is the best time to sell miners and probably has the highest rate of being scammed.

Since price of BTC is rising there is a lot of demand, but if the difficulty keeps rising, your buyer has 45 days to send back your S5 and get a FULL REFUND including the shipping both ways.

Since you actually posted these miners on eBay you don't seem like a scammer but you really are better off just selling on here with ESCROW.





Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: herzlos1985 on December 10, 2015, 11:10:11 PM
Livraison et expédition
Vers
Service
Délai de livraison*
19,00 EUR
Turquie
bpost - standaardverzending
Varie pour les objets envoyés depuis l'étranger
Le vendeur envoie l'objet 3 jours après avoir reçu le paiement - la page s'ouvre dans une nouvelle fenêtre ou un nouvel onglet.


Turkey shipping fee 19 eur is this true ? If true, I bid now..


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 11, 2015, 05:43:23 AM
Livraison et expédition
Vers
Service
Délai de livraison*
19,00 EUR
Turquie
bpost - standaardverzending
Varie pour les objets envoyés depuis l'étranger
Le vendeur envoie l'objet 3 jours après avoir reçu le paiement - la page s'ouvre dans une nouvelle fenêtre ou un nouvel onglet.


Turkey shipping fee 19 eur is this true ? If true, I bid now..

it will take time but i have found a worlwide delivery service but that take a lot of time and has no tracking . he is cheaper than all the others .

otherwise for a worlwide shipping to turkey with track&trace and 1 week to delivery max it's arround 34€ / unit...

and the third possibility is a bulk shipping for max 20 Kg for 44 EUR so 4 or 5 miners ...

You are taking a HUGE risk by selling on eBay right now.

Right now is the best time to sell miners and probably has the highest rate of being scammed.

Since price of BTC is rising there is a lot of demand, but if the difficulty keeps rising, your buyer has 45 days to send back your S5 and get a FULL REFUND including the shipping both ways.

Since you actually posted these miners on eBay you don't seem like a scammer but you really are better off just selling on here with ESCROW.



As i saifd i will scam no one , but on the ebay my GF has setted that we don't accept the object in return for refund as it is item of second hand. i would just notice to the ebay's buyers that i can take an insurance in theyr name if the package was damaged during the travel to the destination . it's arround 5.50€ for 250€ of value and 9.99 for rotection to 500€ .

i will notice to the buyers by message on ebay or ask her to modify the decription .

but as i've been scammed for some goods , even using escrow, i'm not realy friendly with this trade way ... if i have smallest value goods to sell i'll try here a first time and we will see , i have 2 Usb key miners , maybe begin the escrow experience with them ...


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: 13x7 on December 11, 2015, 05:44:57 AM
Can yiu add me on the skupe!?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 11, 2015, 05:46:45 AM
Can yiu add me on the skupe!?

add : mimibrindfer


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: hedgy73 on December 11, 2015, 07:32:05 AM
Can yiu add me on the skupe!?

add : mimibrindfer

Word of warning, please dont add or contact random people on Skype especially brand new accounts posted just to say it.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: adaseb on December 11, 2015, 08:32:59 AM
Livraison et expédition
Vers
Service
Délai de livraison*
19,00 EUR
Turquie
bpost - standaardverzending
Varie pour les objets envoyés depuis l'étranger
Le vendeur envoie l'objet 3 jours après avoir reçu le paiement - la page s'ouvre dans une nouvelle fenêtre ou un nouvel onglet.


Turkey shipping fee 19 eur is this true ? If true, I bid now..

it will take time but i have found a worlwide delivery service but that take a lot of time and has no tracking . he is cheaper than all the others .

otherwise for a worlwide shipping to turkey with track&trace and 1 week to delivery max it's arround 34€ / unit...

and the third possibility is a bulk shipping for max 20 Kg for 44 EUR so 4 or 5 miners ...

You are taking a HUGE risk by selling on eBay right now.

Right now is the best time to sell miners and probably has the highest rate of being scammed.

Since price of BTC is rising there is a lot of demand, but if the difficulty keeps rising, your buyer has 45 days to send back your S5 and get a FULL REFUND including the shipping both ways.

Since you actually posted these miners on eBay you don't seem like a scammer but you really are better off just selling on here with ESCROW.



As i saifd i will scam no one , but on the ebay my GF has setted that we don't accept the object in return for refund as it is item of second hand. i would just notice to the ebay's buyers that i can take an insurance in theyr name if the package was damaged during the travel to the destination . it's arround 5.50€ for 250€ of value and 9.99 for rotection to 500€ .

i will notice to the buyers by message on ebay or ask her to modify the decription .

but as i've been scammed for some goods , even using escrow, i'm not realy friendly with this trade way ... if i have smallest value goods to sell i'll try here a first time and we will see , i have 2 Usb key miners , maybe begin the escrow experience with them ...

You don't understand how eBay works now.

It doesn't matter if you put " NO REFUNDS" the buyer can send it back and get full refund saying its "NOT AS DESCRIBED".

Do some Googling if you don't believe me. Don't sell miners on eBay.



Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Fx_ on December 11, 2015, 11:34:05 AM
Call me nuts, I just decided that I may takes him on his offer. ;)

So I am pretty much a newbie in Bitcoin world, and decided that I'll be mining as my first step. :)

The seller mentioned he used his units for 1 month is there anyway to verify this?  ???
Also, typically if no overclocking is involoved at all, how long could I expect that a single unit of S5 would last?


Any help is appreciated. :D


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Tupsu on December 11, 2015, 02:03:13 PM
Call me nuts, I just decided that I may takes him on his offer. ;)

So I am pretty much a newbie in Bitcoin world, and decided that I'll be mining as my first step. :)

The seller mentioned he used his units for 1 month is there anyway to verify this?  ???
Also, typically if no overclocking is involoved at all, how long could I expect that a single unit of S5 would last?


Any help is appreciated. :D

You will not find any S5 which would be used only in a month.



Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Fx_ on December 11, 2015, 02:19:24 PM
Call me nuts, I just decided that I may takes him on his offer. ;)

So I am pretty much a newbie in Bitcoin world, and decided that I'll be mining as my first step. :)

The seller mentioned he used his units for 1 month is there anyway to verify this?  ???
Also, typically if no overclocking is involoved at all, how long could I expect that a single unit of S5 would last?


Any help is appreciated. :D

You will not find any S5 which would be used only in a month.



Ok I understand your logic, but I was thinking to ask for his recipe as a verification method.

Anyway, I asked him for an easy proof earlier and he should have talked to me 3hours ago... I guess no deal is going to happen here.

Would you or others recommend any specific (used?) model or brand with high hashing rate, given that electricity doesn't take into consideration?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 11, 2015, 02:24:01 PM
hi , i'm just still on work and can't come on skype now man .
i work in security sector and we have a lot of extra hours to make .

i'll take you informed when i'll back home .

and for the 1 mont of usage you can don't trust me but the miners have been buyed by btc direct to bitmaintech in the lasts times of sale .
and as i pay my electricity monthly i've directly decided to stop to make they run , they are not 1 month old , just that i've made them run 1 month .

hope to talk you later


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Tupsu on December 11, 2015, 02:31:58 PM

Ok I understand your logic, but I was thinking to ask for his recipe as a verification method.

Anyway, I asked him for an easy proof earlier and he should have talked to me 3hours ago... I guess no deal is going to happen here.

Would you or others recommend any specific (used?) model or brand with high hashing rate, given that electricity doesn't take into consideration?


There is no longer in ebay
http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/191756979598?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

S5 can only be used. It is important that it is operating properly.

This seller  has also broken S5 miners

as i replied in a private message to another member , i have also 2 units damaged and that have been refunded by Bitmaintech . the guy who contacted me has buyed a unit with a board defect .
i have 2 boards in stock as i have 2 units who have 1 board out of work .

check on my sellin thraed and also see that i'm offering s5's at 325 cause need to recover money and electricity costs are too much here in my zone ...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1272804.msg13159313#msg13159313

But there is one big lie. Bitmaintech never did any refund for broken miners.


Make your own conclusions.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 11, 2015, 02:43:50 PM

But there is one big lie. Bitmaintech never did any refund for broken miners.


Make your own conclusions.

as they have refunded me 2 miners who where defect , they have at least made 1 time ...

and yes i've removed them from ebay as i been contacted on skype for a 4 miner purchase and a ebayer have sent me a message to buy out of ebay but with the paypal guaraty .. but i've no more news .

they can be added when you want on the ebay site .


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Fx_ on December 11, 2015, 02:45:55 PM
@Mirages:
I appreciate your time and affords you were going to spend for confirming and working out with our deal. However, I decide that this is just too much risk that it may leave a sour experience if it didn't go well for me with bitcoins.

Hopefully, you can find and make your buyer a satisfying deal.



Ok I understand your logic, but I was thinking to ask for his recipe as a verification method.

Anyway, I asked him for an easy proof earlier and he should have talked to me 3hours ago... I guess no deal is going to happen here.

Would you or others recommend any specific (used?) model or brand with high hashing rate, given that electricity doesn't take into consideration?


There is no longer in ebay
http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/191756979598?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

S5 can only be used. It is important that it is operating properly.

This seller  has also broken S5 miners

as i replied in a private message to another member , i have also 2 units damaged and that have been refunded by Bitmaintech . the guy who contacted me has buyed a unit with a board defect .
i have 2 boards in stock as i have 2 units who have 1 board out of work .

check on my sellin thraed and also see that i'm offering s5's at 325 cause need to recover money and electricity costs are too much here in my zone ...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1272804.msg13159313#msg13159313

But there is one big lie. Bitmaintech never did any refund for broken miners.


Make your own conclusions.

I thank you for the spending your time and researching this matter for me. I really appreciate that you are sharing your experience with newbies specifically for total newbie in this business (like me).
Conclusion is made, this deal is risky needless to say.
Thank you again. :)


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Tupsu on December 11, 2015, 02:51:19 PM

But there is one big lie. Bitmaintech never did any refund for broken miners.


Make your own conclusions.

as they have refunded me 2 miners who where defect , they have at least made 1 time ...

it was in euros or BTC ?
This is against to the terms of the Bitmaintech warranty.  Post proof of this, that you were one in a million buyers, whom was made an exception and refunded from broken S5 miner.


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Mirages on December 11, 2015, 03:53:12 PM
buyed in $


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: Tupsu on December 11, 2015, 05:49:12 PM
buyed in $

And refunded in what way?


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: hedgy73 on December 11, 2015, 06:08:42 PM
buyed in $

And refunded in what way?

Magic beans or fairy dust :D


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: larry12 on December 11, 2015, 06:52:12 PM
I cant believe this topic is still not locked.....

@Mirages....bitmain never does any refunds.... think again what are u talking about  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Selling 9 unit S5 325$ each + shipping pay btc
Post by: BtcCrazy1 on December 11, 2015, 07:30:49 PM
I'm assuming he's saying that bitmain replaced dead on arrival or something that malfunctioned before 30 days they would fix it. At least that's what I'm reading. Lol but I still don't know why this isn't locked.