Bitcoin Forum

We know one of two things, in the beginning;

- Bitcoin was created as a solution to poverty by allowing people to mine them and thus all have a relative equal share of global equity and have personal sovereignty

or

- Bitcoin was created with a sinister function by a group of corporate thieves designed to extract money from other countries of the world to pay off a nations debt

I have been mining Bitcoin for two years, participating in the "Bitcoin Econony" for two years and in that time, the sheer amount of schemes and scams to extract money from newcomers to the Bitcoin scene has been astonishing, even now POS coins are being created by just a few people, amazingly making it on to cryptsy and then only a handful of the inner circle are benefitting from the only way in which you can make profit (mine a coin within the first 24 hours) the rest is a loss.

So here are a number of reasons why the Bitcoin economy is going to fail;

- Bitcoin holders, people who have thousands do not distribute that wealth to other people participating in the economy
- The creator of Bitcoin still holds $300million (1million) of Bitcoin, and could be any person, agency, corporation, bank with any number of motives
- All of the altcoins, even at the current prices, are artificially inflated, demonstrating that the Bitcoin economy is no different that the fiat economy
- Whichever you look at it, oil is money, money is fiat, fiat is Bitcoin, therefore oil is Bitcoin, and oil propogates and is responsible for war
- Banks and finance organisations are not investing in Bitcoin they are investing in private blockchains.

Any modern economist knows that to have an economy and to keep it moving you have to;

- ensure money circulates by taking it from one person (bankruptcy, fines etc) and redistributing (benefits, grants, etc) -  not hoarding Bitcoiners
- ensure money is given away to ensure participation (nobody would work if it wasnt for fiat money/bribery/blackmail)
- provide confidence that even the smaller participants and currencies retain a stable base value

These are just some of the things, a few more things you should know;

- In the event of a global economic collapse, currency values will decline, so will Bitcoin (Bitcoin is not immune from an economic collapse)
- Bitcoin value is not the actual Bitcoin value (you can estimate that even with 10,000 sold or dumped, the price would drop significantly
- Bitcoin money is fiat money in disguise, actually it is helping the one world government rather than acting in any real libertarian fashion

So after 2 years of seeing Bitcoin be hoarded by jus a handful of people, very few giveaways, continual declining altcoin values, and a significant drop in "pumps" (not to mention the dump of altcoins whenever the Bitcoin price increases) that I am very suspicious about the Bitcoin community.

I must add - I know not everyone has motives of greed - however people that by thousands of Bitcoins from the US government (corporations?) and sits on them waiting for Joe Public to invest their money before cashing out later on does not provide me with any confidence.

Bitcoin is no longer libertarian, even Bittrex takes coins from their exchange if the current trading volume is below 0.1 BTC for a set period of time, anyone in favour of the libertarian movement and the support of wealth being distributed and used by millions rather than the few would not do this.

Are there any stories or evidence of Bitcoiners for example aiding curing poverty, helping homeless off the street? Do you have any stories? Who is doing good with Bitcoin?

You guys started with nothing and ended up with $millions, only to be kept waiting for a higher cash out, do you think people will invest in Bitcoin knowing that?

Let's see some evidence that the Bitcoin community is indeed libertarian, is looking to reward others in the community, post up your photos , stories and lets see some evidence of how you are using your new founded wealth to help others and not using it to scam money out of newcomers to the cryptocurrency community.

P.s. I was a latecomer but priveleged to start just in time for the launch of Dogecoin and Mooncoin, #tothemoon

I think I missed the political part of the whitepaper.

That does not make much sense. If it's not helping the poor, hence it'll fail? Well, that's just not how things work. Economy is much more complex than that.

Science and technology papers are not the avenue for political motivations, who knew Bill Gates who "created" windows would be involved in a political agenda to stop people in third world countries having children? He didnt put that in Windows when he sold it to us? Your comment therefore, null and void.

you didnt miss it.. the OP did..
bitcoin was never about making the poor rich, nor about corrupt corporations being involved.

bitcoin was about a self auditing currency, requiring no central owner, that had limited supply and thus deflationary. compared to the print as much as you like fiat currency.

I disagree, the economy is not complex at all. The key to an economy is dependence, that is all, its not rocket science, and yes if Bitcoin is not propogated to people that spend and transact it will never take off in 100 years, that was why fiat money was created in the first place.

Why do you think people give video games and tools away for free nowadays?

One of the factors was to prevent double spending (gold standard) and double spending (quantitative easing or currency devaluation).

Bitcoin is NOT immune from its ability to create new assets or more coins from its source, if agreed in consensus, so actually limited supply can be changed.

So you confirm that Bitcoin was about making rich people richer? Seeing as its launch was stealth and even 7 years later the creator has not even written a book or appeared?

sounds like your a conspiracy nut. that has had 2 minutes investigating it.. then taking some drugs before writing your post.

i feel that you dont understand bitcoin and are looking for freebies so one day you can become a billionaire. and your angry because your not getting free handouts.

so.. please. learn what bitcoin really is and then start earning some. its not just about mining. i can think of 200,000 ways people are earning bitcoin without ever mining.

as for your question about does bitcoin help the poor.. well yes
here is a video of one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGSjtaa3Ih8

here's another story
http://www.seansoutpost.com/

Generally insulting, although an interesting response. As a zero hour philanthropist actually being a billionaire goes against the grain of what philanthropy is about (if you had read the post, understood, and digested what I said you would have understood that) - if you have more than you need to live and achieve your daily aims and goals then you are not a philanthropist, for example;

A corporation boasting profits and a bank account of $billions while 18,000 children die every day from disease and poverty and then deciding after 30 years of profit to start doing something good with 1% is not an example of philanthropy, in fact if you compare for example the deaths casued by Adolf Hitler/WW2 and compare deaths per year each year (around 6 million) as a result of poverty you will start to realise that the economy is the problem and not the unit of transaction.

People hoard because they fear giving money away will make them lose power or infuence, this is the same reason countries in part go to war, they fear losing power and influence, particularly financial with regard to someone else having more resources and therefore more power and influence. This is in direct contrast to how humans are supposed to live.

So as for handouts you couldn't be further from the truth, I am trying to establish that Bitcoin itself is not a sleight of hand or a black flag event masqueraded as being something positive. At the moment there is zero evidence to suggest otherwise. Even with the premise that it was created with good in mind, notice the early adopters have thus been rounded up (such as a sting or a honeypot event) with continued issues with propogators.

I am also trying to establish any evidence that given Bitcoiners failing to distribute Bitcoin in abundance (and therefore participating in a pyramid scheme and not in general consensus) how the Bitcoin economy can sustain any level of growth, particularly as banks and financial institutions are moving to private (and currently non-compatible) solutions thus limiting the financial growth of Bitcoin.

Seems anyone that questions logically the underpinnings of anything is a conspiracy nut (yet thanks to "conspiracy nuts" there is plenty of information regarding events, practices, of which much is illegal throughout the world today), I am sure that Julian Assange would be delighted that people like him who question immoral society and find answers are conspiracy nuts, but denial and chants of drugs or being mental is the normal practice for someone trying to hide the truth, and the first step in the denial of truth process.

Do we have an accurate rich list for Bitcoin at the moment?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise

I have to agree. It would be great if the intention of Bitcoin was helping the poor, but it is the first time I heard someone telling that.

As far as I know its intention was to create a decentralized currency, that can be used in many ways (not just helping the poor).

bitcoin being hoarded??

more and more transactions are happening every day
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all

as for saying the bitcoin creator 'satoshi' still owns 1million bitcoins.. that has been disproved for many reasons
1. hal finney for example and several other people were mining in 2009, thus satoshi's cut was far below 1mill
2. bitcoin-qt v0.1+ had bugs and those involved in developing new versions kept changing bitcoin code and wallet protection methods.. INCLUDING how privkeys were held and dealt with.. meaning coins on old addresses were lost.

as for people afraid to give away.
i have given over 100 btc. and over 13000 litecoins.. gavin andresen has given many hundreds of bitcoins.
andreas antanopolis gets paid in bitcoins and buys things in bitcoins.

the amount of people HOARDING. are not 50% of the community, not 20% not 10% but a small minority.

on just one day (november 5th) 6% of the entire bitcoin market cap moved.
https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd?timespan=60days

again.. in JUST 1 day!! so imagine how much funds moved in 7 years..

There is third possibility - neither of that you mentioned is true. Because:

1.Bitcoin was never created as tool to prevent poverty. It is not possible to for anyone to create society without poverty in the first place.
Even if you initially give out money or assets to people, after some time, individuals with better plan or ability to manage their money will gather significant number of wealth in their hands.

2. There is no one proof that confirms that theory. Every known fact about bitcoin contradicts this theory so far.

Or, I stopped reading after your two options proposed,
since you obviously don't know what you are yammering about.

I'm always amazed when I see a newbie saying he's been mining for 2 years. I never did. I tried once but my computer wasn't up to the task.
Sorry, but both your starting assertions are wrong. Remember that BTC has already been more than 3 times what it's worth now, and it didn't fail. After more than 5 years, I can't imagine BTC failing, unless it is replaced by something better.

That is absolutely false. Over 75% of coins in circulation are hoarded.

You earned a godwin point.

price going higher means there's more demand.

more demand for bitcoin means more success.

my logic is undeniable.

I would just extend this furthermore: "more demand for bitcoin means more success, which means more publicity, which means more demand .. etc etc"
It's very well known that it's the spikes in price that attract new users and investors the best, you just need to push it so that it gains momentum.
OP's logic is flawed.

Bitcoin is about a new transfer of wealth after eons of money being in the hands of only a few.  I don't see Bitcoin being affected by hoarders considering how far only one coin can be broken down. The vision was genius.

I don't think this is really a fact, because the Bitcoin's price already increased in the past more than once and it's till now the most successful crypto currency worldwide. I think that Bitcoin need the price stability more than going higher and i think the price will be stable reaching some point in the near future

I don't thin that if the Bitcoin price increase means that bitcoin will fail because the price increased already in the past

the only fail i can see is that there will be more centralization in the miners sectors, aside from that, a higher value will be always beneficial for bitcoin as long as it was build from demand and not by manipulators

I think so, big holder with thousands bitcoin ready to make a heavy dump next month. We will see a stable price in a couple weeks then fall into the black hole.
This topic must be in speculation section?

The price of bitcoin has stabilize around 350-360 these past few weeks
Do you think that happen because of the manipulators or it's because of the demand ?
Im thinking of buying few bitcoins but i don't know if it's the right time or not
I don't want to deal with a case of bitcoin price going down right after i buy it ::)
It's a waste of money :P

i think that the prior rise, the pump to 500 was more genuine there was some demand + manipulators, the last mini pump, instead it's only made by manipulators

manipulators are greedy and want to increase their stash always, at every opportunity, so they keep doing those mini pump in the hope for another demand to help them reaching a certain higher value

The purpose of bitcoin is to decentralize. That was satoshis claimed purpose of the coin. The price rising will not fail bitcoin, it will only bring more interest to consumers and traders, making it more successful.

I see, if that's the case i think i will buy some coins in hoping to get some nice profit when the manipulator pumped the price ;)
And not forget about the halving also :P
Thank you very much for your explanation :)

I think, we have to rid ourselves of the tendancy to expect that Bitcoin is the cure for everything. It is a technology that was introduced as a alternative to the current centralized financial system. It has a token

that function as a currency, but it has many other functions too, as part of the Blockchain. To expect freebies from early adopters, because you think they owe other late adopters something, has to stop. They

were lucky and/or bold enough to take a risk, and it paid off for them. Bitcoin will not fail, because these people are not willing to share their profits.  ::)

OP as much as I respect your point of view, I think that 50 different people out there can come out and write 50 different theories just like you had. And you know what, all of the 50 people can be dead wrong at the end. Will Bitcoin end up successful and who will it serves will decide its users, market and demand. Not me or you with different theories.

Cheers!

In the event of a global economic collapse you can still use Bitcoins because all Bitcoins are ready to be spent anytime, but you cant use fiat anymore unless you hyperinflate it (basically most fiat holdings removed). And it is because fiat operates on fraction reserve basis, it is not something real where each unit of existing currency can be spend anytime.