Bitcoin Forum

UNIVERSAL WALLET BENEFITS

*Idea, If all of this is too much, perhaps having 5 mains,
BTC, LTC, NMC, DVC & PPC, and scrapping the rest.
This would give us a client with the main alts.
And it would increase alternative cryptocurrencies value.
Litcoin people, or others should be interested,
as this would greatly increase your alternative cryptocurrencies value.


MEMORY PROBLEM IS A MYTH

I alone run 9 or so clients with no memory and completely no problem,
therefore a universal client is possible. And also the person below.




Alternative cryptocurrency value increase

-The access to all coins in one wallet would increase the likeliness
of someone experimenting or generally using these. As now
people don't want to bother with the hassle of having 10 different clients.

Easier to use and more manageable

-Great for targeting a larger audience and for the success of bitcoin and/or alternative cryptocurrencies,

-Ultimately this leads to a single client that does everything, and the no need of any extra clients,
it would thus contain a miner section, linking to all wallets, etc. This would for the future
benefit Bitcoin, and make it easier for the general population. And its also beneficial to us,
it would be nice to have this all in one client wouldn't it be?

UNIVERSAL WALLET FEATURES

-Contain the balance of bitcoin and alternative crypto-currencies, the single universal wallet program
would associate with all of them.

-The contain of market pricing, and the know of each value

-The contain of a mining section, and a drop down box, of work-size, miner types, pools, etc.
It would then mine from the single universal client.

-There would be a profit section, and a graph, and a electric graph.
You input your power usage, card type and power usage, and a
graph that shows what's your profit rates.
 
BOUNTIES

If you like this idea, feel free to offer a bounty, they will
be posted in this section.


Example: (Do note: The below numbers aren't accurate, this is a representation of what a universal wallet
may look like. The miner tab isn't there, and market tabs, a lot of photo-shopping precision, and time consuming,
hopefully with these two pictures below you understand fully the implications of a universal wallet.)


http://s15.postimage.org/g5dpclv7f/Universalwalletimproved3.png

http://s10.postimage.org/sh6cxaf6x/UWT.png

Care to sketch it out in more detail? What would the markets-tab look like, where you buy and sell currency? Would transactions be displayed together or ordered by currency? Etc.

I would imagine it would have the same level of utility as a precious metals trading program that allowed trading of the whole periodic table of elements.  Nitrogen rally, buy now!  Buy helium too, it's got nowhere to go but up!

I'll buy some Argon if u got any... i'm feeling noble :P

Argon.  pffft....the All Retard Gas

Xenon is where it's at. 

well i went back to my childhood of learning the elements from Tom Lehrer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYW50F42ss8

Are you assuming a person would be running damons for all the coins they are interested in?

If so, there is a start in the test gUI of the Open transactions project.

It could do with some integrating into the rest of the functions of the gui, but it does at least let you tell it the ip address, port number, username and password to use to connect to the coin daemon's RpC port so you can use it with almost any altchain or with bitcoin.

Markets in which you can offer to buy any asset using any other asset to buy with, and at ny power-of-ten scale, are also in that GUI.

Since fellowtraveler regards the GUI as only a test GUI, and he can now do at the command-line anything the GUI can do, improving the GUI is no longer a main goal for him, so it is time for people who can make it more user-friendly to get to work on it.

Screenshots and source code: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger

-MarkM-

Wait?  :o  I was talking about a universal wallet,
and now your talking about gas?  :o

Wait does crypto-currencies somehow = Gases?
Weird way that topics can jump.
I guess before I know it,
we will be talking about multidimensional universes,
and crazy people in mental hospitals.
Just don't ask how that happens xD

Well I was assuming that the client would assoicate with all of them, and be merged into one file.
Instead of the annoying different open ones, like I have PPC, LTC, BTC opened atm
and separately. All using the same client, I wish they were all merged into one program,
and it looked like the following above.

Associating with all the folders in /appdata, of all the currencies, and wallet files.
Instead of one.

One thing is to progress to a universal client, to make it easier, and simplier.
Make it mine, show market prices, and have all the crypto-curriences merged
into one wallet. The mining part would have cgminer,guiminer,phoenix, etc.
All merged into a tab in the client. You go to the tab, click add graphic card.
Put in all the details, and type the pools, and click run.

I would vouch for a design like this.
And I wouldn't have to have 5 different programs open,
just one. It be easier for the average users out there.
And targeting it for the lower IQ, average population,
you will need a dumber version of it.

The average IQ is 100, but on bitcointalk.org
the average is properly around 120+
as bitcoin has a high mental barrier.
Everyone here is pretty much geniuses
compared to the average population.

Anyways I hope my idea,
or sketch leads us the right way
toward this design.

Best regards
Lightlord

If someone wants to get this started, perhaps we could get a devcoin endorsement for the project to help with the bounty?

Most normal people apparently have trouble even having one blockchain, let alone several blockchains.

So probably you need one of the thin client systems adapted to be able to work with any chain, along with its server-side system.

Once such servers are present for all chains, having just one copy of its client be able to work with all the different chains' servers should be do-able.

Or you can go the Open Transactions route, letting people deal with many many many assets, not just cryptocurrencies but pretty much anything, all from one client. Open Transactions abstracts away the problem of having to deal with all the many different servers serving all the many different blockchains, letting folk just directly deal with accounts much like having bank accounts denominated in many different currencies. It also has markets, so any time you come up with a new currency you instantly also have markets for it against all existing currencies.

Many people might not even bother running an Open Transactions server of their own to handle their own accounts, they might be perfectly happy just using other people's servers, maybe spreading their balances around across many many servers to distribute risk.

-MarkM-

I agree with mark - a project like this needs to use lite clients, not full blockchain versions of each client.  Trying to run 8 different cryptocurrency blockchains off of one HDD would pretty much necessitate a dedicated computer for the purpose, or at the very least, a dedicated HDD.  It would make more sense to integrate lite clients so that a universal wallet could be used on anyone's computer.

That said, I think such a software would be really neat, and I would certainly use it.  It would increase popularity of alt-coins too - many people probably don't bother with them because they don't want to run another piece of software, or they don't want to use a command-line-only client.  If they were already running the software, though, they might be much more likely to give them a try.

So all the more reason to make Open Transactions clients more user-friendly.

All the technical differences between currencies, shares and other assets of value are abstracted away, letting the user deal with the two things about all such things that makes any of them of any interest: their VALUE and HOW MANY YOU HAVE of each.

-MarkM-

I don't see a reason to complicate things by adding open transactions into the mix... just use each cryptocurrency as it is.

Okay, so which as-is cryptocurrencies have servers that support thin clients?

Seems to me either a multi-coin thin-client-server is needed or for each currency a thin-client-server is needed.

Until servers exist to connect to clients aren't much use...

-MarkM-

If all OP is looking for is a wallet that displays the balance of each type of currency along with market details that shouldn't be so complicated or as resource-intensive as you say.

My laptop uses Windows 7 64-bit with 3 gigs of RAM and it currently runs my BTC, LTC, NMC, PPC, LQC, IXC, I0C and TRC (a total of 8) clients all at the same time. The amount of space used on my 350 GB HDD has been fairly negligent (maybe 10 - 12 gigs in total) and still has plenty of resources left for browsing the internet, streaming HD movies on Netflix, listening to music, etc... Hell, I even have an instance of minerd running 24/7 on that laptop... Pretty much the only thing I might have problems with are resource-intensive 3d applications or music production software...

And as far as adding market details, that should be fairly low-intensive as well since it would all be handled by api, which shouldn't use much in the way of system resources...

Good to know... I had heard from a couple of people that Litecoin was very intensive because of the quick blocks, and they couldn't successfully run both bitcoin and litecoin on a server.  Of course, the server had other tasks as well...

@markm - I think only Bitcoin does (Electrum), but I am not certain.  Regardless, it should be relatively easy to port Electrum (or whatever other lite client scheme develops) to other currencies, and then it's just a matter of finding people who want to host the servers.  How would open transactions help the case though?  Would people transfer coins by providing private keys through open transactions?  Seems silly and wasteful.  Is there another way to do it?

The fastest-growing coins lately have been the ones who protected themselves against the kinds of attacks blockchains are vulnerable to.

Open Transactions abstracts away all the technical stuff, allowing the user to deal with fiat currencies, grams of gold and silver and such, shares of projects corps companies and such, basically anything fungible and of value, and even non-fungible things are also on the roadmap, things that will involve deeds so that each individual one of  the thing (each house, each car, each ship, etc) can be different from other things of its type.

Thus it does not matter to the client whether any particular thing moves away from blockchain representation to protect itself from blockchain attacks, or moves back to blockchain format once it has enough transaction volume to attract miners or enough ASICs of its own to defend itself or whatever.

All users really care about is how many of what do they have and how much is that worth.

Having to run a whole bunch of different clients depending on which thing happens to use which format at any given moment is just technical crap that should not get in the way of the user being able to pick up whatever is growing fastest in value whether it happens at any particular moment to be a "currency", a "commodity", a "share", a 'bond", a 'fiat", a "blockchain coin" or anything else of value.

(Basically what a thing is, how it is implemented, etc are server-side issues; all clients care about is how many do I have, how much are things worth, and how many can I get of what in return for what.)

-MarkM-

Give an example of how an open transactions purchase of Bitcoins would work.  What you just said only says "yes, you can perform transactions off of the blockchain".  I want to know exactly how you picture this working.

It depends on point of delivery.

A better example would be i0coins or even bbqcoins, that is, some example that takes into account the unlikeliness that you care about having a blockchain of it on your local disk.

-MarkM-

int n=0;
while (true) {
    create_new_cryptocurrency("i" + n + "coin");
}

As far as adoption goes, I thought websites are supposedly the adoptable medium, if you make people run a client at their end instead of simply using their browser you kill adoption anyway so details of the thing they have to download/install are kind of moot, if you want adoption you should be making websites, not user-machine-end client programs?

-MarkM-

One click wallet back up for all coins would be uhhhhmazzzzzzingggg!

It's good to have options.

Blockchain.info is the only web wallet I think anyone should trust (as evidenced by the mybitcoin debacle), and they don't support other cryptocurrencies.  If someone wanted to make a blockchain.info counterpart with the ability to manage all cryptocurrencies, then I think they could be very successful.

Regardless, a desktop wallet wouldn't be a bad thing either.  It'd be a better solution than none, which is what we currently have.

Blockchain.info is the block explorer thing?

Whatever, if it works and is free open source code adapting it should be pretty easy...

As for dedicated apps yeah I bet vendors love them too, give people a walmart wallet not a buy from the competition wallet for example heh heh. :)

-MarkM-

That may also have been with the original bitcoin client release, I know that the original bitcoin client was MUCH more resource intensive, if I remember correctly I think my bitcoin client was using nearly a gig of system RAM before I updated, now I use a little over 150 megs...

Here is the screen shot of my task manager as it stands now just for a rough idea of how much resources each client uses while also running the rest of the system (cpu usage is at 100% because of minerd, without minerd cpu usage is less than 5-10% on an intel t4400 dual-core):

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/Caniotherapper/TaskManager1.jpg
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/Caniotherapper/TaskManger2.jpg
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/Caniotherapper/TaskManager3.jpg

Sorry for the three separate images but was necessary to capture all of the running processes...

Yes, having it all into one client would be nice.
And perhaps a auto updater you can check-mark,
so all the miners update automatically,
majority of pools listed in the miner.
All merged into the wallet file,
called universal wallet.

Lets start this up. And if you offer a donation
for the development, I can add that to the main page
as a bounty.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.960 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.960) devcoin thread, setting up a bounty on it.

Update Bump

universal bump  :)

Devcoind.exe was completed today, but there is still a bounty open for the qt.

Please not so many bumps, it's unpopular.

it got 600 views in 48 hours vs the other posts.
My other post alone taken 3-4 weeks to get 1000.
If you say its unpopular, then why so many views?
In a short time?

It seems you do not like the idea of a universal wallet,
so you put in the quote *Please not so many bumps....*
But it already fills two pages.

However I notice that the change of picture,
immediately dropped its popular, and
talk about greatly for some reason.

I don't mean the thread is unpopular, I mean the idea of creating posts consisting of "bump" to draw undue attention, three times in two days, is unpopular and impolite.

I am not against the idea of a universal client - ironically I once did exactly the same thing and staged a screenshot of what a universal client might look like.  It's in my posting history.  Might have been April 2011.  It was before all these alt chains existed, so my screenshot had some pretend alt chains I made up.

Interesting, do you have the link of the thing you made? Would be interested in taking a look

Sure, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10755.msg154451#msg154451