Bitcoin Forum

Very simple, this system will send 1 BTC to the person who sends the most BTC to the address listed.  Winner is determined by the highest transaction to make it into the first block.

Updated Rules: The system now sends 100% of all bids to the highest bidder in the first block.

http://y4x.com

seems legit

First winner: 14AAAtKR4j6nZPqpGhkRy1o3FVMwigFPdX

Second winner: 1PvvrkYfMwrRGAUAntXoEJcgHFLhMJaPgd

I was the first winner and did receive 1 btc in this transaction
https://blockchain.info/tx/28356beb1dd17f0fbdb6656d5a50078bdd3c33a8784ddff59cd2e0a068adbf79

There's a problem:

https://i.imgur.com/WiATO.png

The 3rd address was 15cVZLDWCmmHZjHXSFnj5sWUKVbtUmip2Y, not what is shown on the site.

Oh, now it's right after I refreshed the page:

https://i.imgur.com/glIbj.png

Are you updating the page by hand?

I have a program that checks for whether there is currently a winner and it was "off-by-one" when working with the database... just a typo.

We have had 7 winners!

Do you have enough funds to keep this going? It may take a bit of time before it becomes profitable.

I'll be fine, I actually don't mind if I use up all my bitcoins doing this.  It was a fun program to write pooling for block information against my local bitcoind.  I don't want to exchange them for $ through an exchange and I really don't have anything I want to buy with bitcoins.

Nice, well thanks! I was winner 7  ;D

Is payment not automated?

https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/ (https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/)

It is automated, I will check the logs (when I get home tonight) and see if anything is missing.  So far the first six went out without a hitch.

Did you receive the 1 BTC?

It isn't a very expensive game to run, just send 1BTC or more to the address yourself each block ;-)

I don't think that would last long because nobody would be winning and willing to come back and play.

Yeah I did, although it was many hours afterward. http://blockchain.info/address/1GzMAicev1cXywysaF73iHFjcCpRRZnQTT (http://blockchain.info/address/1GzMAicev1cXywysaF73iHFjcCpRRZnQTT)


Good point, he doesn't appear to be doing that though. But if this game were to continue he would need to offer some kind of reassurance that this wasn't happening.

Yea, I just put it through.  My script was hung up because my wallet was "locked" and I forgot to add code to progmatically open the wallet before sending.

Profit this time!

Did you win it?  It looks like we had three active bidders:

http://blockexplorer.com/address/14qAosL9qvVpAjdzzxSkFfuW79qRzFvSKo

Nope, I quit after 0.07337 BTC

Also, I prefer http://blockchain.info/address/14qAosL9qvVpAjdzzxSkFfuW79qRzFvSKo (http://blockchain.info/address/14qAosL9qvVpAjdzzxSkFfuW79qRzFvSKo) (looks much cleaner and is 'live')

I feel sorry for the last few guys whose transactions didn't make it into the block lol

I'd love to see a solution as it would make a whole new class of games viable. I don't think it is possible; if there are any wagers sent by people who are unknown to you it could be the operator.

I have a possible solution. Anyone playing has to be registered here on the forum before today/XX-XX-XXXX/some other requirement. Before a new gambling address is live, you have the 12 hours to post an address(s) here that you will be using. Any coins sent to the gambling address will only be valid if sent from an address posted here prior.

But the downsides are obvious, (no newbies can participate, only forum members can participate)

... and most importantly it doesn't solve the problem, because the site operator can register a new forum account and post an address from there.

Hence the before today part, assuming he hasn't already prepared another account, it at least decreases the chances of him getting to bet. I know it doesn't solve the problem but its the best I could come up with on the spot. Can you think of anything else dooglus?

Interesting discussion.  In my mind the fact that someone is genuinely winning each time is what will enforce fair operators from not fair.  Wouldn't it be the case that if the operator always wins then people will be disappointed and you will run out of people willing to bid up?

Well, if he wants to enter into a deal with me, I'll let him use one of my pre-registered sock accounts...

I meant another idea besides mine  :)

Also, this game is much more fun when you are the only one playing  ;D

Edit: Seems it still is not automatically sending out the reward.

Bummer!  I will be home in an hour and will see what the logs say this time.  It worked last night so we are getting close to full automation.

You should have gotten it a few hours ago, correct?

Correct.

Looks like full automation worked this morning, we have 11 winners!

idea: LOWEST unique bid, in bitcent denominations

everyone gets their own address

let's say here's the bids:
0.01btc
0.01btc
0.01btc
0.02btc
0.02btc
0.03btc
0.05btc
0.06btc
0.06btc
0.08btc
0.10btc
0.14btc

0.03 wins as they have lowest unique

ouch.. my 0.08 btc bid didn't get included and the 0.02 bid won

Pretty fun game, what clients are you using?

HA! I WON!  ;D

Can you use http://blockchain.info/ instead?

Instead of 1 BTC, you could send 80-90 % of the total amount of bids.

You wouldn't lose and bidders could win more. They would bid even after the biggest bid is over 1 BTC.

Edit. well, bidders doesn't see other bids, so the decision cannot be madebased on already made bids. But anyway, the bids would get eventually larger.

When an address is live I link to blockchain.info so people can see all the unconfirmed transactions.


See above, when an address is live people can click on the address and see all of the bids on blockchain.info.  As long as all of then say "Unconfirmed!" then bidding is still open.

Hmm. I sent my bid from easywallet.org, but there seems to be 2 inputs and only one is mine..
hopefully it chooses correct address..
or maybe both inputs are actually connected to my easywallet address?

Edit: I WON! hopefully the prize gets into 1JCkim4DwsFwAU6eV92887hjXdxormXQSb not the other one..

Edit2: Yes it did,thanks for the Sauna beer ! :-)

Actually this is a very good idea. Regardless of the moment you make your bid, others have an average 10 minutes to make a bigger bid. The bitcoin network makes the lottery.

I'm glad to hear you won.

Bidders don't actually have an average of 10 minutes to make a larger bid.  Let's say you make a 0.1 bid, a block could be created at any moment and your 0.1 bid could be put into it.  The first moment a block is created with a transaction to the bid address the results are frozen in time.  People can continue to bid but their bids won't be in the first block that was created.  That's why it's important to look at blockchain.info (or whatever method you want) to track whether the block has been made yet.

So yea, the bitcoin network acts as a chaotic timer (which is what I think is really neat) but you don't have long to contribute which is why I have the auctions reveal at predetermined times twice a day: if anyone wants to play they know exactly when to show up.

But can you also change the links in the main page to blockchain.info?

Yes, but the weird theory behind 'finding the block' says that any given moment, the expected time to next block is on average 10 minutes.

That is, regardless of the time passed after the last found block. The actual time could be 1 second or 1hour, but in the average, it is 10 minutes.

But you should market your site a bit more aggressively, so you dont' just give away bitcoins.. I'll spread the word (well, I'm not gonna win bitcoins so more in the future, but a good idea should be shared..)

Also, it should be verified, if there is a possibility that the prize goes to a wrong address, ie on some web wallet site's internal address. If so, bidders should be warned (actually enought information is already on the site, but just to avoid complains). I'm not sure,  if I was lucky to get the prize to correct address, or is the other address also connected to my easywallet account.

Yes, that's good. Also, you could choose the times so that potential players are most likely online. Maybe late evening on US and Europe? At least today (16.00 local time,UTC-2) there were only one other player. Currently this is EASY MONEY for players.. but I guess that's the case in most sites?

I wish good luck with your site. Also, think about changing the prize from 1 BTC to some% of the bids. Maybe some minimum prize (0.1-0.5 BTC?!). Or why not make another site with different winning strategy? This is completely free suggestion, I already won 1 BTC ;-)

Can you give me some perspective on why I should change it?  Do you just prefer blockchain.info?  I don't mind changing it but I want to understand why you are asking.


I don't really know how to market the site...  I set up the site an experiment in interacting with bitcoind.  Don't spread the word it will just make it harder for you to win! :D


I don't have a great solution here: I could have people register and set a withdrawal address but that would be a barrier to people playing and ruin the simplicity of the game.  I want to solve this problem but I don't see how.  I will post a short notice on the site.

I have set times so it is consistent and people will know when to play.  It is a convenient time somewhere in the world, right? :)


This is actually a good suggestion.  I thought about this but thought people might not understand and not play.  If I ever get a couple people playing at a time then maybe I will switch to % and that way if people want to bid big to win the pot they can.

That's correct.  The expected time to the next block is 10 minutes.  Interestingly the expected time to the previous block is also 10 minutes.  So if you pick a random point in time, the expected time between the previous and next block is 20 minutes.

Weird, isn't it?

Read this question and answer, and associated comments for an in-depth discussion of it all:
  http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3909/what-is-the-expected-time-until-the-next-block-is-found

Fair enough :).

To get us back on topic, I added a JSON datafeed: http://y4x.com/json.php

I wonder how many times the owner wins...  8)

Legit question, the answer is zero.  By operating a fair game I believe people who win will be interested in playing again.

for me

-1

not verifiable

Fair enough.

There have been multiple games where there was only 1 player (2 of them were me), so in the past he hasn't cheated.

There's no way you can prove that you're not playing I don't think.  Not that I don't believe you of course.

If you were to change the game such that the highest bid gets 98% of the total that made it into the first block then it wouldn't matter if you were playing or not since even if you were we wouldn't be at much of a disadvantage playing against you.  The only remaining inequality is that when our payment doesn't make it into the first block, you get to keep it, but that can be seen as your cut for running the game.

Currently you can bid 1 BTC each round and be guaranteed never to lose money.  If instead you pay out 98% of the total, you don't have such a way of guaranteeing a win, and we no longer have to trust you (other than to trust that you'll pay out following the rules of course - there's always a risk that a site operator will abscond).

good category: Gambling

-1 ;)

Help me understand... can't I just bid 1000 BTC and win every time under your scenario?  Or are you saying that it is balanced by someone else being able to bid 1000.01 and that no one knows when the block will complete?

Yes, you cannot be sure you win in dooglus scenario. Basically, others have allways on average 10 minutes to beat your bid. If maximum is 1 BTC, there is no point to bet more. If there is no maximum, you cannot 'steal' the pot without risking your investment.

Block complement is a lottery. Miners make milliards of guesses every second to find an answer and the chance is to find one solution in 10 minutes, in  the whole network.

I see... well, I can do it that way.  My script already sums up all the bitcoins it would just send 98% of that as the return instead of 1.

I don't think this qualifies as "verifiable" but I like that it takes less suspicion off the operator (me).

I said 98% to give you a 2% house edge to make it worth your while.

But maybe you can pay the full 100% of all the payments that make it into the first block, and keep all the late payments as your profit.  That's probably plenty anyway and it likely going to be the later bigger payments anyway.  Paying out 100% looks so much better than paying out 98%, and makes little difference to your take...

And yes, you can't guarantee to win by putting 1000 BTC into each game because I can put 2000 into each game and take your 1000 BTC.  I guess practically speaking nobody would do that because (a) you might just run off with their 2000 BTC and (b) their 2000 BTC bet might get confirmed after someone else's 0.5 BTC bet, and so they lose it anyway.  You don't have to worry about either of those two issues, so I see what you mean.  I do think it goes some way towards removing the "hey, he can cheat easily" accusation though.

Ok, here we go...

You seem to have alottery ongoing. Is it a test or open to everyone?

Open, but now it's confirmed.  The next one is in 29 minutes.

Hmm. some thoughts:
- no risk, so you could keep it open all the time?
- for bidders, there is no point to send the first bid. Nothing to win, but something to lose?
 -> maybe initial bid or minimum prize? But then there *is* risk and you cannot keep it open all the time?

Edit: with initial bid or minimum prize, you cannot share 100% ?

Well, someone might send an initial bid just to lure others to play and then try to collect the prize :-D

I will have my system automatically post the first bid at .1.  It's ok if I bid if I'm the first one.  If no one plays then I win my own with no gain.

Edit:  And I can still give 100% with initial bid because 1) The initial bid is small and 2) I will get late bids.

I love how you listen to and respond to comments from your users.  Other game operators could learn a great deal from you.

(Just please don't run off with all the money once your game really takes off!)

Fully agree. You need some users to the site so there will be some competition. Spread the word!

Edit:I got the 2nd one. Need more testing? Worst case for you is only one player...

Ok we have our first winner with ID # 2 (I won the first one with the initial bid).  Logs show that the payment went out.  It is a much different dynamic with the new rules but I like it.

There are sites that gives something like 0.0001 BTC for free and AFAIK, they are quite popular. I could be wrong, but at the beginning even a very small initial bid could be enought, maybe 0.01 or 0.001? (why am I saying this? I win more by playing as only player like now ;-)

But it is very difficult to define best initial bid before you have more traffic in your site. Of course, if you have capital, we users are happy to bid even those 0.1 BTC as often as possible. Hard to say when there are enought bids so you get some income instead of costs.

I was giving away 0.8-0.9 BTC before... so yea, I'm fine seeding the pot with 0.1 BTC.  :)  Bid on, and win happy.  It's just BTC, I don't mind spending on the community.  I'd take you all out for drinks if I could.

btw, If I send smaller bid, will it win the initial bid? I assume not, and I think you should keep it that way. Otherwise you could end up with numerous bids with 0.0000001 increments.

Correct, the initial bid is "winning" at the beginning so you have to beat it.

Come on! I'm getting the pot #3 also!

long block... you can stillget it!

This is where the game will kill with 4 people bidding.

Yep! Now there is some competition.. hmm..

Edit: maybe I should pay trasfer fee, they could have been included in block 210339.

What happens, if your initial bid is not included in a block, but some winning bid is?

Just take the first block with any transaction to the bidding address, sum all bids and send them to highest bidder in that block.  If anything, including initial bid, doesn't make it then that's the game.

Edit: since we all missed the block I think the block miner just didn't have ours.  I know mine has transaction fees on it.

Then it is possible that the winner wins only the bet she/he makes. Ok, if the users just know it.

Hmm. very long block.. maybe I will.. hmm.. I'll let this one to go to someone else :-)

there is still 0.4 BTC for someone just to take :-)

Yes, actually I payed also fee.

Seems to work nicely, congrats! I'll go to sleep. Will drop by in your site sometimes.

Hey BitcoinHoarder,

Could you talk about the technologies you're using in this? What's it written in, where is the scripting that handles payouts done?

I'd like to get involved with handling bitcoin (probably in a gambling context) and whatever you're doing seems to be suitable.

I've recently taken a liking to google app engine so I'll probably be using that, opinion? Better yet, are you available on Freenode?

I've been offline since my last post and missed the first 3 games.  Now I see I have a 2 hour wait for the next game.  I wonder if you could maybe run the games continuously just by putting in a very small initial bid for the times you wouldn't usually run a game.

You could have on your site a list of the next 10 games and their corresponding initial bid sizes so people can wait for the upcoming 'big' 0.1 seeded game if they like, or play right now in the 0.001 seeded game.  You could run a 0.001 game every block and it would only cost you about $2 per day to do, assuming you lost every time.

A problem with doing it that way is you can't tell people how long until the next 0.1 BTC game since it depends on how long it takes for the current game(s) to play out.

This is the next big thing after SatohsiDice!!

EDIT

OK its not so cool after all....big miners could easily cheat ;/

Interesting.  I guess they could.  Just exclude any transaction of higher value to the same address.

I don't see a way around that, either.

In other news, I won!  :)

https://i.imgur.com/K41e5.png

Not that anyone else was playing mind you...

I just noticed that you didn't pay the winnings to the address that I sent my bid from, you paid it to the address that the change from my bid went to.

In general that might be a dangerous way to do it.  You can't be sure what's change and what is a payment to someone else in the same transaction.

Suppose I sent my bid to you and paid a debt to a friend in the same transaction.  Then my transaction would have 3 outputs and you couldn't tell which was my friend's address and which was my change address.

It's better to pay the winnings to any one of the addresses in the inputs of my winning bid transaction.

My bid:

https://i.imgur.com/InF8m.png

Your payment to me:

https://i.imgur.com/4BlP0.png

Nice win!  Yea playing a one man game though... ;D

I will check the polling script for how it is determining the return address.  I admit its a protocol that can leave you doing research  :)

I have thought about how to do continuous games considering its automated... I think what I'm getting to is that when a game is closed the system sets the next one to start five minutes later.  That way a game can safely run on and still be continuous.

It is easier to win when you're the only one playing...  ;)

Have you considered what happens in the event of a blockchain reorganisation?  It's not unheard of for some blocks that have been found to be replaced by completely different blocks with different sets of transactions.

See http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks for a list of when this has happened.  It happens on a daily basis, and can easily change the result of your game.  History gets rewritten and the big payment that you thought hadn't made it into the first block now is in the first block...

Edit: the obvious solution is to wait for 6 confirmations before paying out the winner.  Reorgs almost never rewrite that much history.  Can your script handle starting a new game while the previous one is still awaiting confirmations to be sure you got the correct winner and prize amount?

I currently have it written that 1 confirmation is enough, so yes, orphaned blocks should be considered.  However, the rules do not state that it's the first block that survives the main chain, it's just the first block my server gets its hands on.  So a block is a block, even if it is eventually orphaned.  My thought for now is to leave it with 1 confirmation.

I actually didn't think that was cheating.. part of playing the game is while the window is open you should mine with your ASICs so you can control the next block ;)

Using these tagged addresses might not be a good idea ;-)

http://blockchain.info/address/1K9Wv6xRKE5HdnK2jQ1W1d2Tza3iSwQ8gB

some competition please! I'm getting free bitcoins!

That's very true.. maybe there should be some intelligency to optimize game at times when there is more players?
For example, normally at regular intervals, but if there is more than 1 player, then start next immediately?

The algorithm currently calls for beginning games everyday at 2am and 2pm UTC/GMT.  When a game ends another begins 10 minutes later for a total of 4 games.  There is 2 rounds of games, 8 total games in a day.  If the game gets players then those parameters will be tweaked to allow for more games.

EDIT:  A couple minor changes to how return addresses are detected.  We shouldn't have any problems sending to part of a multi-address transaction.  Also, I am waiting for more confirmations because I want people to be able to look back and confirm that the correct winner was determined.  So even though blockchain.info shows the winner confirmed the payout will not occur until more confirmations have come in.

Ok, sounds good. Some thought how possibly get more traffic to your site:

1. Tweet account with alarms some time before next game starts (maybe worthless, if you have regular times)
2. Some http code to be shared so others could include your game to their site.

When I think the psycology behind my own participance on the game, I think the initial prize could be smaller. With 0.1 initial bid, I hesitated participating to the game. When someone bidded 0.2, I ended up stopping, because I was afraid I could lose much.

With 0.001 or 0.01 bids, I could play that just for fun. Now the cost is a bit too big (~1€). Also with lower initial bid, the users who has only free BTC they have collected by watching youtube videos, could also play.

I think in the end it would not drop the income; when there are enought players, the bid will rise just as high as the players have guts to rise it.

One possibility to test good initial bid is just try several amounts. First game 0.1, next 0.01 etc?

Of  course, these are just one player's thoughts..

One more thing; you should warn not to use web wallets, such as Easywallet.org or instawallet.org. They do not necessary have correct sending address.

Agreed

Ok I'll run 0.01 for a few and see what happens.

#9 seemed to get some action, and you got some profit also, congrats! It was at 0.1 initial bid, thought (by accident?).

That was set at .1 and I had the next one at 0.01.  I wasn't home for the last two runs and everything appears good.  The timing algorithm is that it runs five auctions that begin ten minutes after each other and then a four hour gap.  That one was #9 and #10 so there is a four hour gap now (10 is evenly divisible by 5).

Ok, but the site said "initial bid 0.01000000 BTC" for both bids.

One thing; there seems to be some delay before the initial bid is seen on blockchain.info. I think it depends on when the payment reaches that site. AFAIK, you should be able to force some of the connections to the network; if so, you could assure you have direct connection to blockchain.info to get your payment in the list quickly. Not sure if this is possible, thought.

I am connected to blockchain.info for the broadcast.  I actually see the 0.01 immediately (it's already there by time I click the link to check).

The reward is only player-created bids? It says 0.011, but shouldn't it include the initial bid and be 0.021?

The reward is all the payments that get into the first block.

In the case you're looking at, the first player-created bit got confirmed *before* the initial 0.1 bid!

See http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4xaSKCVmRCxP5a9Lfp85SwNP4zocQCZ?filter=2

I notice that the website is still linking to blockexplorer.com for the 'bid address' column.  The above type of link is much nice - it only shows deposits from the given address, and is as a result clearer to read.

Also, the table on the website doesn't list the 'initial bid' amount.  That would be interesting to see.  Also consider adding "start time" (or "game duration") and possibly "number of bids in winning block", "total number of bids", "value of late bids" (where the last 2 would possibly continue to rise after the game was over).

Now that there are lots of games running it might be better to show the results in reverse order, so that I don't have to keep scrolling to the bottom of the page to see the most recent results.

Maybe also by default only show the 25 (or whatever) most recent games, but offer a link that shows them all, or pages through them 25 at a time.

I won 0.01 3 times in a row since I was playing without competition.

Then my 0.011 was beaten by a 0.0111, and in my hurry to regain the lead I accidentally bid 0.1111 after my initial bid had been confirmed.

So that's a 0.1111 profit for the site operator.  :)

That was me, sorry  :D

No need to apologise.  That's kind of the game...

Wasn't a real apology, hence the  :D

Hope you can keep doubling your money, I need some sleep.

It seems the 3 of us who play this game are all on different sleep patterns and rarely clash with each other!

Yep, so it does look like :-) But hopefully there will be competition..

I let the game run with no gaps last night to test the payment scripts.  I am looking closely and I don't think any errors occurred.  Cool :)!  Late last night I set it back to the standard 5 games + 4 hour gap schedule.

I think that's funny and awesome that there are just a few players and you all pick up the initial bid :D.  I saw the one where the initial bid didn't make it in, that's a fun twist.

I changed all the links to blockchain.info, they seem the same to me but blockchain.info has been requested twice.  I also reversed the list of Past Winners.  I think the results table is too crowded for more stats at the moment, but I keep it in mind.

Thanks for playing and making suggestions.  I would like to send 1 BTC to dooglus, Nite69 and Yuhfhrh for their kind thoughts on ways to improve the game.  dooglus and Yuhfhrh: post a receiving address please.  Nite69: I used the address in your signature.

Thank you, that's very generous! Address in my sig is ok.

Sent you a PM of my address. Thanks!  :D

Thanks a lot!

My receiving address is 1P7dSHEDF4pzdNvQiVBQCS7PtHJ5FNuWF7.


"1 seconds" is messy.  :)  Can you tell I'm running out of things to 'complain' about?  ;)

Instead of refreshing the page every 10 seconds, do a local countdown or use AJAX!

Correct, I will do an AJAX call to the JSON-API.  I can probably do that today, I put the last part in place just now which is the automated generation and entry of the vanity addresses.

Shouldn't be very hard to code a php bot for this.


repeat every second {

define max bid

get all transactions from bidding address -> verify if all of them has 0 confirmations -> verify if last bid is mine

if not -> get last bid value, add 1 satoshi -> bid

}

Correct, and you can hit http://y4x.com/json.php to see information on the upcoming and current address.

To mark 50 completed pots I have set the initial bid for the next auction to be 1 BTC and for tomorrow evening.

I have updated the page to reload the counter with a call to the server instead of reloading.  Thank you for asking.

Fixed for "days", "hours", "minutes", and "seconds".  ;)

When you have this up and running please be sure to come back here and tell us what you have "max bid" is defined as.  ;)

Since there are many auctions you could easily learn the bots behavior... just watch for the guy who is bidding satoshis and where he stops bidding :D

Knowing the bidding increment won't be very useful unless you're also using a bot to bid for you.
But that max bid can really be dangerous  ;D

If anyone wants me to code a bidding bot exclusively for them PM me :)

The pot was 1 BTC for 20 minutes and no one bid for it.

1BTC= Real gambling, less than 0.01BTC=Fun lol

Nice, good point!  I guess I don't see 1 BTC as a big gamble but maybe I don't fully understand the bitcoin community as it stands today.

Its not necessarily a big gamble, but the risk of not getting my 1btc in the block, along with possibly having to fight someone else, makes it unattractive to me. These are just my opinions of course. (Its fun to throw pennies back and forth against someone else, but not nearly as fun when you start having to throw bills.)

 You are obviously rich! Let the Game run on every Block for 0.01 BTC :)

I want to play all day ;D

Or add several scripts with different bid. http://y4x.com/1BTC ,  http://y4x.com/0.1BTC etc ;-)

I plan on having multiple addresses revealed at a time.  Maybe like 0.01, 0.05 and 0.1.  I think 1 BTC is too large for all day bidding, I just ran it for the 51st bid because we had reached a total of 50 pots.

Bidding address #72 seems to need a long time before initial bid is done. Does it wait for a newly generated block before bidding or someting?

Edit: 211206 seems to be over 1 hour block..

Edit2: I think the initial bid was never sent..

Odd, the initial bid went out for all except #72.

The way the system works is that the initial bid is sent out to the network at the same moment the address is first revealed.  I will look at the logs and see what's up with #72.

I added 0.01 to the pot for #72 and sent it to the winner.  My records show the initial bid was sent but it didn't hit.  I will add some more scaffolding around that part of the code and see if it happens again.

Thanks!

That's me ;)

I found the issue.  Sometimes the RPC connection is unavailable and that breaks the send.  I fixed it so that I check to ensure the send worked before updating the database.

I sent you 0.5 BTC to the address in your signature for helping discover the issue.

Ty! You really encourage people to seek bugs in your system. That's good :-)

Oh man ...

i did send 0.101 BTC to 1Y4wvaZXLNkSfYC4RCL9ZK4gvSYYFZovD ...
my Transaction got included in the Block, but not the Startingbet!!!

That System is bad :(

Maybe, last bet in the block afterto the block with the initionalbet should be the winner!?!

That is pretty rare, like 1 in 150 rounds.  Consider yourself lucky :D. Did you win any of the other rounds?  There have been a few winners today.

No, i did win 3 or 4 0.01 Bets, this was my first 0.1 bet :(

I dont feel lucky at all :(

But i think you send me the monney back...so its ok...

You should change the System! Wating for one Conformation for Initialbet is not bad.

I've had the opposite situation, where I was the only one playing, and got my bid in in plenty of time, but then only the initial bet made it into the block that was eventually found.

It was one of those times when there was almost an hour between blocks, and so thousands of transactions were waiting to get into blocks.  I just got unlucky and didn't make it into the same block as the initial bet.

Maybe it would be a reasonable change to make it so that the winner is the biggest payment confirmed in the same block as the initial bet or before, and gets all the confirmed bets so far.  Only payments which get confirmed later than the initial payment go to the house.  I don't know how that would affect the house though.  Obviously it would reduce the house take, but I don't know whether it would turn the game into a losing proposition for the house or not.

The initial bet is intended to just be a sweetener to get people bidding.  The point of the game is not so that a single player can scoop up the initial bet while playing against themselves :).  We are worrying about the small case where the game is designed to fit a large case where there are 2 or more people on a pot.  For the past week the game has been essentially free BTC because no two players have been on it.  I don't mind at all, I have paid every game, I just don't think there is cause to make a more complicated ruleset because people want to win the initial pot.  And for the record we are even discussing a rare case, the initial bet (over 99% of the time) almost always goes to the top bidder.

You get better chances, if you pay the transaction fee :-D. I just played all 0.01 0.05 and 0.1 .. and of course, the biggest one did not have the fee included -> lost that one.

But that's the spirit of the game :-D. pay you taxes and you get luckier ;-)

Actually, you can increase your chances, if you know bitcoin. I do not know if it's good or bad :-\ Anyway, here are some basics I'm aware of:
- pay the fee, your payment is more likely included in the block
- use a bitocoin client with as many connections to the network as possible (maybe forced connections to largest pools?).
- follow blockchain.info main page also and refresh it just before you hit 'send'. don't hit, if there is a new block ;-)

In the case I'm thinking of I paid 0.0015 in fees, the initial bet only paid 0.0005, but still the initial bet got into a block before I did.  Both transactions hit blockchain.info long before the block was found.  The miner just decided to include the tx with the smaller fee rather than mine for some reason.

Sounds like the miner didn't have your tx... or he discriminates against high fees :D

My tx had a lot of small inputs - which is why the default client decided to include 3 times the usual fee I guess.

The miner may have decided it's better to include 3 small transactions rather than my 1 big one.

It just happened again by the way.  This time both transactions had the same minimum fee, but only the initial bet got into the block:
  http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4jkMHYjG8M9GeTgCZvkmsQLdwP9Q9me

In this case my transaction was smaller than the first bet, since it only had one input.

I think rolltime functionality has increased the possibility that a transaction is not included in the next block. Pools can re-use the same block longer time.

How many nodes are you connected to with your sending client?  Blockchain.info is very easy to get broadcast to because they have 2500+ connections with their custom implementation.  You need more connections to increase your chances to get to miners maybe?

14 at the moment.

The problem with having your transaction more appealing/accessible to miners is the scenario in which only your transactions are included in the next block and your competitors/starting bid aren't.

So long as my transactions all get in, I'm OK.  At least then I break even (except for the fee).

The problem is when mine don't get in.  Then I lose.

I payed Fee, and one Minit later comes the Block, still didnt get in :(

That Game makes no fun this way :(

Its not realy about who bids last :(

Yes, iam crying loud as a Baby :(

But you need Happy users, Happy users play again, even if they lose, but in a fair way ;)

http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4TGvLDohNfNkVMKCzt6DJ1G7HEhccdy

You placed your bid 12 minutes after the address was revealed and you are not happy?  That's pretty risky, people who win just place their bid immediately and then pay close attention to whether anyone is trying to outbid them.

In form of an update I added a small amount 0.001 for those who don't want to commit a lot of BTC and I staggered the start time.  So 0.001 starts 1 minute between, 0.01 is 2 minutes, 0.05 is 5 minutes and 0.1 is ten minutes.

Enjoy!

Maybe you could have a less frequent, bigger stakes game? 0.5 BTC every 4 hours or so.

For sure, I like the idea of bigger stakes.  So far I am keeping larger stakes for events... like I am going to have a big stakes for New Years Day.  That reminds me, I should add the New Years stake.

Maybe initial bets 0.01, 0.02,0.04, 0.08 etc so people can try martingale ;-)

That's a fun idea.  :)

This is different in that you can win many multiples of your bet (not just 1x like black/red on roulette) if you get in late enough to get the whole pot.  You can only martingale if nobody else is playing against you.

So it's not strictly martingale betting.  But players could still keep 'moving up' to the next stake level until they win, making it very martingale-like.  If you bet close to (but higher than) the highest existing bet each time then your winnings will be very close to, and possibly more than, the sum of your bets.

Same thing happened to me :

http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4gqnxNJP5UK27EhKoc24AvJQtpKMEnY

This time, the initial bid *did not* have a fee, and it got included 3 blocks later!

Of course, the system tells the rules, so this is a known risk to the player. However, it makes the playing less attractive. I would also prefer a slight change to the rules; the winning bet should be searched from the block where the intial bed is *and* earlier blocks.

But of course, this is my opinion (and ThePok's ?), but  the host defines the rules...

Edit: hmm.. I think I actually won, but I only won back my bet, without the initial bed. And minus fees, of course :-D

Edit2: Here is the transaction where the win came to my wallet, if you are interested:
http://blockchain.info/tx-index/36240968/2487f45d1b3c369b1f493dbe35f00ab0224887f52fe6595ee409cda7a1ed997e

However, in this I must disagree. This is part of the rules, and I find it fair. There is a risk the player takes.

Of course, the rules could be different, but then the house should take a fee from all winnings. There is no point to make this kind of site just to spread bitcoins :-)

Argh, I just updated my bitcoind and I lost the paytxfee value, so indeed I was not attaching a fee to the initial bids.  This is fixed.  I have sent you the missing .10 that you should have had for the bid and I sent you an additional .25 for reporting the bug.  Thanks.

I am not an advocate of ensuring the initial bid is included for three reasons: 1) It is rare.  Excluding this issue where I wasn't sending a fee, the initial bid almost always get the first block.  2) The player is only losing a potential win, they get their initial bid back.  So yes, you don't get the initial bid but "no harm done".  3) This game is not about winning the initial bid, it's about winning the pot.  If there were more than 1 player on the pot then 99% of the payout will come from the bidding.

Okay, I think I have some pretty bad luck - sent 0.100001 btc with proper fees, didn't get in the block which came after 5 minutes... And plus the "initial block didn't get in" happened to me too :P

What do you mean "initial block didn't get in"?  You mean initial bid?

Ok, that sounds fair enought. The game is ok, as long the players know all the rules and agrees them by participating the game :-)

You just need more players. I'v been thinking.. just an idea; maybe the pool operators sees enought benefit with increased fees if they promote your game? Paying fees seems to increase the possibility of win so in the end pool operators will get moreprofit if this game became more popular? So it would not harm them, if they promote the game on their sites?

Can you send the transaction id? I cannot find such game# in near past?

I think players see an opponent as a threat more than an opportunity. So if there is someone already made a bid, people tend not to make a bigger bid because they are afraid of losing money. How would they see it more as an opportunity to earn even more, which it actually is? ;-)

Hmm, I think you are right...  Maybe I need to put more time between the pots so that each feel scarcer...  I don't know, I think you have a good point.  If someone has already bid, what is my incentive to bid, I know that someone with initiative is already betting.  If I bet I'm probably just going to get outbid.  Going to have to think about that...

Maybe I was wrong on this? Allowing smaller bid to win would make this a lot more attractive? Don't know..

Yes, initial bid :)

I know the game is provably fair, just that I seem to be making up for everyone else winning lol.

Looks like you can win, even if you send your bid a lot later than the initial bid; see round #535:

 http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4nWizG5ebNgUqHyHhbknE1gc2vnReXV

initial bid was made 2012-12-12 17:15:08, the winning bid (me :-) was at 2012-12-12 17:43:42, ie almost an half hour later.

Hmm.. however, I would guess you get better chances, if you bid asap after initial bid. But the difference might be smaller than one would think.

Have you changed the starting algoritm? A couple of times the game has started just when I randomly go to the page. Or am I just being lucky?

Hmm.. anyway you woud not need to start the game, if there are no players ;-) You could delay the start until someone refreshes the page.

Correct, you can win ANYTIME you have the highest bid in the first block.  Blocks do take a long time, it's not that hard to get 30 minutes or an hour (although it is less common) between blocks.  In your case the initial bid was sent immediately and your bid 30 minutes later both made it into block # 211953.  That's just exactly the game.  The initial bid might be sent and ten seconds later it is in a block or it might drag on and on and on.  You never know.

If you send immediately then you have the maximum chance of getting included with the initial bid but you also have the maximum chance of being outbid.  So, again, that's the game.

Exactly correct, I do not send the initial bid until the reveal address is seen by a player.  So imagine the database is configured to start a game at 12:00:00 PM.  12:00:00 PM may come but if the address has not been revealed to anyone then the initial bid is not sent and the game therefore can not prematurely end.  I put this in place so that games wouldn't be started by the initial bid and then ended without anyone ever seeing the address.

This is a very good improvement, I think. This makes it worthwhile for occasional visitor to start the game. So just prepare your wallet (once I did not have my wallet ready..) , go to the page and gamble! Visiting the page is specially good now when there are not many players. And of course, when the amount of players increase, winning is not as easy as now, but the price will be higher :-).

Very true. Six Blocks 211975 - 211980 came in 8 minutes and I succeeded to win during that time :-)

The game has run it's course, thank you to everyone who played, I had a great time writing the scripts to work with bitcoind and the blockchain. 

change the system. Make the Bids 1/10 of the initionbet. So it makes more sens to outbit others :)

I already offer a 0.01 initial bid.  You are saying people want to bid lower than that?

No, i dont want to saz that.

Make an Initialbet of 0.1btc and minimum first bid of 0.01btc
after first bit pot is 0.11btc after second bid it maz be 0.1201 and so on