Bitcoin Forum

Physical Gold & Silver are flying off the shelves as fast as they get coined.  "Supply" is getting very tight.  And yet price is dropping like a rock and mainstream media predicts it to fall off the cliff.  This price action goes totally against traditional economic laws of Supply / Demand.

Bitcoin is in a way the opposite..... new Bitcoins being mined every day.  Mainstream media says nobody wants bitcoin.  Big Financials & Banks say it is dead.  Nobody wants Bitcoin it seems.  So the Supply should be huge.  And yet the price is steadily climbing.

One scenario that makes sense of these two seemingly opposite contradictions is that a global crash is coming and people in the know / insiders are speeding up their positioning. 

Big Money is buying Gold/Silver hand over fist all while telling the masses of sheep it is going down - creating sellers for their buy.  Oldest Wall Street trick in the book. 

With bitcoin, they are basically just manipulatively shrinking the demand in advance of what they know will be a huge spike in demand..... no one still really knows about bitcoin, and the media is either not talking about it, or when they do they tie it to crime etc.  But it seems that the big money is buying.  These increases aren't because a few more forum members bought a few more bitcoin.  A small part of it is the slow but steady ongoing buildout towards mass adoption, but much is big money hedging their bets.

And it seems to be speeding up..... Gold and Silver is getting bought up fast.  Now, its happening to bitcoin too.  It's quickening.

Any thoughts on scenarios about the interaction of gold/silver with bitcoin if global economic meltdown of the current system were to hit.  Gold/Silver will go up because everyone KNOWS about them being safehavens in a crisis.  I wonder at what point that will translate from Gold/Silver to Bitcoin.  I think it will be a 2-step transition in the aftermath of a global financial crisis..... Fiat Money >>>> Gold/Silver >>>> Bitcoin.

My thinking is that the price/demand explosion that will come in Gold/Silver will be huge and fast like a rocketship.... UNTIL people realize it is going to be Bitcoin that is actually the next monetary evolution, and Soooo Much easier to get/transfer into etc..... and that this realization could happen quickly, in which case Gold/Silver could go back down as fast as it goes up.

OR.... will something happen that causes Bitcoin to become well known overnite, and totally steal the thunder from gold/silver in the event of a financial crisis?

Thoughts?

Precious metals markets are manipulated with certificate ponzi schemes and unfunded paper claim scams. Otherwise they would go up massively since the supply is in shortage and demand is rising.



Bitcoin is inflating, but the market is more concerned about the scaling FUD, and the uncertainties of the network. Not to mention governments reaction to bitcoin.  Also we will have next summer halving.

So yes IMO both precious markets and bitcoin can go up eventually!

Honestly I think in the future when/if the fiat system in every nation starts totally collapsing, there will be a need for a new currency that is digitalized, which of course Bitcoin will step in. But then you have to think, we'll wait, what will Bitcoin be priced in and what will each Bitcoin represent monetary wise? And I think it will go back to how it should be in the fiat system in the first place, be back totally by gold and silver.

So I think both will go up in the future accordingly with each other, because they are the easiest ways to transact/exchange goods and services without the need for a central banks printing scheme.

Anything with a definitive, finite supply will have to be the replacement currency. If we see the collapse of fiat currencies it will mean that it will be difficult for any government to reinstate it, especially if it is a global collapse and not just one or two countries having worthless currencies.

The only issue I see is that with the finite supply, you can only divide it so far, and so we have no real idea what will happen once we have to divide a finite supply beyond what it was originally intended for, in order to supply the needs of the populace.

But again, that's the beauty of Bitcoin in my mind. You can divide it indefinitely to the point where it can be traded in very micro type of transactions. There is a lot of room for the growth of divisibility in Bitcoin if it becomes the stand alone currency. I mean think how small a satoshi is compared to a Bitcoin.

Those are just assumptions and perceptions.   "Supply is getting tight?"  Says who?

Nobody wants bitcoin?  Says who?

There are no contradictions in reality and the market price doesn't lie for long.

The U.S. has been minting record amounts of new silver eagles since about 2011 when we had the price spike.  If this doesn't tell you that silver isn't in short supply, then I don't know what can.  Take a look at all the shitty silver coins and medals on places like MCM, Liberty Coin, and many other places.  Tiny island countries like Tuvalu are minting stupid-ass colorized 0.999 silver coins, and there are more Happy Birthday, Merry Christmas, Go Navy, etc. etc. commemorative 0.999 silver medals than anyone can possibly buy.

Plus yours is the same argument that I've been hearing for years as a justification for why PM prices should be skyrocketing (!!!).  The fact, I think, is that 1) hucksters will lie, and 2) the market is glutted.  And gold and silver prices, well, they're falling.

Well won't the price of most PMs fall, aside from inflation, because they are generally available, and more and more continues to enter the market? I wouldn't expect there to be a fall in the price until we have hit peak gold/silver, because it is fairly easy to get out of the ground with modern techniques, and there is always cheap labor available.

There will always be terrible versions of PMs available, and it just so happens that thanks to cheaper labor we are able to have an abundance of pieces of shit floating throughout the market.

Lots of this strange behaviour is pure speculation and hype influencing the buyer cycle. There are more people buying than what we think it should be, and they are keeping this a secret to keep the price low.

The traders are not stupid, they deal with hype and speculation every day, and they too can see through all the bs and fud being spread around on the internet.

If you base your trading decisions on hype and shills, you would go bankrupt within the first month.  ::)  Run in the opposite direction ... is my moto.

Unbalanced distribution and suppression.

a decrease in power on the fiat side, will certainly help the adoption of bitcoin and increase the general demand for commodities as well

we can only hope that bitcoin will face the same fate of gold, but maybe with a faster adoption rate, because we ar enot stuck in 19xx anymore, tech run very fast these day

and if you don't want to remain behind you need to catch the train asap

before bitcoins came into place, silver and gold were the most precious thing and commodities that were used to store wealth. But with the invention of the magic coin, I tell you guys found the alternative options for the investment. It is for this reason that you are seeing the value of the coin going higher in demand and pricing which is directly opposite to the gold and silver. It is just that we have several options and today, you cant say you made it because you have gold.

Silver prices have crashed in the last 5 years and continue to capitulate. Some have suggested that manipulation is occurring because prices are misrepresented fractionally on paper. Ultimately silver is being used industrially however and those contracts need to be fulfilled and silver delivered for use and thus the market price is actually a true representation of price.

Where the contradiction lies is in the silver investors insistence in tight supply and extremely high demand where reality indicates oversupply and a correction from a speculative bubble 5 years ago.

It never surprises me of the new way in which the Banksters invent to keep the ponzi going.  Financial collapse is not the main issue i would worry about in the next 5 years it would be more the west incessant prodding of the Russian bear to provoke a war, which could end it all.  It wouldn't be the first time that war has followed a financial crisis.

though there are 175 thousand tonnes of gold. the majority was hoarded in fortknox and other banking systems.. with only a few tonnes released.. but in the last decade more has been released to the masses. meaning supply has increased..
EG gold vending machines
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2011/7/1/1309534631324/gold-to-go-machine-007.jpg

as for bitcoin. although more is being made per day, its availability is low.
exchanges have monetary limits of $10000.. meaning people can only buy 30 bitcoins at most each without triggering AML flags.
to add to that, exchanges dont have 15mill hoards. they have maybe 50,000 hoards to use for trading. while the other 14.9xxmill is in cold store away from exchanges and not traded.
meaning bitcoins supply is low and demand is higher

Gold's been doing better than silver over the last decade. It's crashed a bit but not as much as silver during the last five years. Over the last decade both have still gone up overall though. Bitcoin's outperformed both since its birth but it's got a limited total supply, and there is more demand to buy it than can be satisfied by newly mined coins. Bitcoin's crashed hard for the last two years but there was still demand for it, and now it's going up again. None of the three assets have crashed below their values from a decade ago (or 7 years in bitcoin's case), they have all gone up in the long term.

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/au00-pres.gif

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/ag00-pres.gif

Silver has crashed in the last 5 years and continues to capitulate-

http://www.kitco.com/lfgif/ag1825lf_ma.gif

Gold  has also crashed -

http://www.kitco.com/lfgif/au1825lf_ma.gif

Whether you look at 1 yr , 2 yr or 5 year chart .... what is inescapable is a large correction from a previous bubble and oversupply/.

Mainstream Media and Big Financials obviously have no idea what they're talking about and if the price continues to rise then it is only down to supply and demand. I would disregard what anyone else thinks and continue to promote btc and it should eventually grow much bigger both in demand and price than what it is now. The halvening that is coming up next should be an interesting time for sure and that will really test the demand of bitcoin and hopefully increase the price at the same time.

85% of gold is used in industrial applications, 15% for investment. Probably for silver, the percentage for industrial applications is even higher. Since industry is going down the drain because of the coming bust (China, etc.), industrial demand for gold and silver is clearly falling. The price is not manipulated as much as the gold and silver bugs think, this theory is only around because of their rationalizations. Sure, they might manipulate $1 or $2. I think for gold and silver, the price will fall even further, before investment demand finally takes over industrial demand.

Meanwhile, use of bitcoin is growing and the price reflects that.

So, imo, there is no supply&demand price contradiction, neither for gold, nor for bitcoin.

it's because beyond their speculative nature and manufacturing they are not really needed for everyday usage, on the other hand bitcoin can be heavily used as fiat currency

so it has more chance to see a well deserved fate in the future

85% industry 15% investment..

the numbers of pre millennium were probably
99% hoarded and not on any market.
0.85% sold to industry
0.15% sold to investment firms

now its more like

80% hoarded
8.5% industry
1.5% investment firms and
10% international retail(think dubai)
now the financial and retail market is saturated with gold

Well yes, that's exactly what I was saying. Except I don't understand what you meant about labor. Precious metals, I think, are falling because there is so much of it on the market.

Well yes, prices are falling because more of them are becoming available, but part of why there are such increases is partially because of cheaper labour allowing for more mines to be active at the same time, if I am correct. I can be 100% wrong right now, and I don't have enough knowledge in the topic, but that's partially what I'm thinking. I'm also not saying that cheap labour is a bad thing, as it is technically a good thing for most of society.

I might be wrong but gold mining industry isn't really profitable anymore, considering that there are just so many of them around. My guess would be that most of them are pretty much operated by the same group of people.

However as bitcoins supply keeps decreasing and the demand and difficulty increasing, the price has nowhere else to go but up.