Bitcoin Forum

There needs to be more encouragement for shops to keep bitcoin.  There are a few businesses that keep their BTC as BTC and we should be encouraging that.  Not using companies that are just using the bitcoin for buzz and cashing in on all of us bitcoin consumers. 

There should be a list online of all the businesses that dont convert their bitcoins into fiat. Then we could as consumers make that choice.

Merchants must to preserve their liquidity and pay for expenses so they will mostly convert coins for fiat and i dont see anything wrong with that. If ppl buy same amount of coins they spent, Bitcoin value is not touched by merchants dump. Expecting from merchants to hold all coins is bit to much.

actually it is wrong because it prevent bitcoin to grow, or it slow down it greatly, if no one will dump bitcoin anymore, but they keep using them directly for the enxt thing

we would enter in a circle, where there will be no more the need for fiat, there muats be services out there that can work together with those merchants for paying their expenses

like utility bills and stuff like that, that are for us already, https://www.cashila.com/ for example is one of them

Well to do this, we will need a list of merchants who pledged they convert it directly. Most payment providers do convert the bitcons instantly when makeing a purchase for example.
So yeah how can we trust merchants to say they won't convert it? They can do it, without anyone finding it out?

For now it can rely on good hearted businessmen and entrepreneurs who care about the bitcoin economy.  Later we may need to look at how businesses are structured.   

I suggest that all businesses could have their accounts public on the blockchain.  This way the whole economy will be transparent. 

It's just not feasible at this point for a company to do that... There are too many costs that are tied to fiat money. That list would be too small

It is hard to expect that retailers or merchants which operated mainly in FIAT would want to keep bitcoin. In our current economic system, where bitcoin is extreme volatile.
I am afraid that there is no list of merchants or services which keep bitcoin directly but you can assume they are bitcoin related companies rather than sellers.

My best guess is that just using BTC as often as possible is good enough, and that the universe of companies NOT changing them into FIAT$ is probably pretty small.

I have only bought (consistently) from providentmetals.com (http://providentmetals.com), who offer gold for BTC, but they change it to FIAT$ right away.

I agree with above comments that (especially small) businesses have expenses to deal with, and so often need almost every single dollar just to keep rolling.

I don't really care if a business converts to FIAT$ or not.  If they take Bitcoin, that is good enough for me.

If I was a craft business making my own stuff then I'd go all BTC. As long as there's a supply chain then that dirty fiat will always be a factor. Bitpay did say quite a few of their customers retain large proportions of bitcoin so it's not as cut and dried as it first appears.

This is the wrong attitude to have.  If everyone gave their btc to business which promise not to convert to fiat, its those business owners who will then seek out a supplier which takes BTC and promises not to convert to fiat and the cycle continues and you develop a parallel economy without the need to ever convert to fiat.

If we want to develop this btc economy the way we want it we have to be scrupulous as consumers.

Also currently, people are more reluctant to spend their btc, one of the reasons is, that they think if they spend btc they are reducing the value of their own money because the merchant will convert to fiat.  If i was a business i would not convert any btc to fiat. It doesnt mean I have to ONLY accept btc but that portion of my turnover that is in btc i would endeavor to keep as btc

With respect and courtesy, I disagree.

For many businesses it is HARD to segregate any capital into something other than currency.  Our business (import of auto parts into Peru), we almost always need every dollar that comes in.  If someone else's business is strong enough to put some FIAT$ aside for HODLing BTC, well more power to them.

Myself, well..., I keep my own "stack" of BTC.  Not converted.  Not until BTC is into at least the high four figures...   :)

For the time being, most bitcoin accepting retailers will have to convert most of their bitcoin. I am not against that. If they can hold some to pay their employees, that is already very good.

It is possible especially in a service industry to have no need to immediately spend takings.

And im not saying the business has to hoard the coins. They a free to spend them on various business expenses.  You can use btc to pay for advertising very easily,  server hosting etc. 

Im sure most businesses can find a cost that they could switch to a provider that accepts bitcoins.

One day when even our primary producers are accepting bitcoin, a distributed network of smallholders will overtake your monsantos of the world

I think it's a step forward for merchants to accept bitcoin. Pressuring them not to convert back to fiat is not that reasonable. They have to convert at least part of the bitcoin to cover costs. If you want to offset the effect, buy back the same amount you spent from the exchange.

Its not pressuring.  Its encouraging.


Im not suggesting we campaign against merchants converting to fiat (after all its a free market and bitcoin will stand or fall on its own merits) but as bitcoin consumers we can support businesses that support our ideological goals.

yeah like some have posted they need to use the money they bring in so they can stay in
business. They have no choice to convert. Unless more vendors start taking bitcoin then
they can simply restock using bitcoin instead of fiat.

Does anyone have a list of companys that accept btc and dont convert to flat? This would be useful to the community as a whole.

I do not believe that such a list exists. It would be advantageous to the community to have such a list.

none, at best you can find some of them holding a portion, because they believe in a increase in value for the future, which is what the majority of us are doing

Maybe some of the smaller vendors keep a small of portion of the btc profits in btc and don't convert all to fiat.

Do you seriously expect regular merchants to hold a currency that is so volatile as Bitcoin? Think again, the answer is no.

What will you do as store when you sell for example a tv for $800 in Bitcoin and hold the coins, and a day later the coins are worth $750 and another day later the value dropped to $700??? You can say, let them just hold the coins and wait till the value has recovered. But it doesn't work like that.

In their system it says a tv has been sold for $800, but the real value of that transaction is now only $700. It means a direct loss of $100 for them. Don't forget that they also have to pay tax over the $800 sale, while their coins are only worth $700  ;)

So what you are saying is that these stores do not care about BTC they just want fiat.  So why do they bother accepting bitcoin in the first place if not just to increase their market share and hype at the expense of the bitcoin Community.

In the example you gave, you assume the company only sells things for btc.  But most real companies do 99% of their commerce in fiat. Do you think that the share of their takings in btc is so significant that they have to liquidate completely to stay in business.  This is not a realistic way of looking at things.

What does it mean this? First of all I want to buy something that satisfy me and not bitcoin. Bitcoin is important but not in such kind. Bitcoin cannot condition my life in this way. I am not addicted by bitcoin to choose as a gift for my wife something that satisfy bitcoin but not my wife. If my wife want something that can be bought only in a store which not only don't accept bitcoin but even can hate it, me, for sure, will buy in that store that thing that satisfy my wife. Bitcoin cannot be and cannot be treated like a dictator. Such conception is extremely wrong and make only damage to it. It can and must be accepted only with the free will of everyone who want to use it. Otherwise no one will accept and use it for a long time (even from them who are using it already).

These behaviors are extremely dangerous for the bitcoin and never must be used or accepted from everyone who want that bitcoin have a brilliant future.

I don't think this will make a difference. Smaller merchants might do this but others still need to convert to fiat. I think this could happen if more people and shops would accept bitcoin.

Whats wrong with having a list of businesses that do not convert to fiat and allowing consumers to make their own decision? Nothing as far as i can see.

The wrong is in blacklisting that merchants who don't use bitcoin. The wrong is to think that in this way make good to bitcoin. All both can be intended by the words and thoughts expressed in the man post. The wrong is to make hysterical calls to favorite these merchants who keep bitcoin and don't change it (the most stupid things I have heard in my life about bitcoin). The wrong is to make hysterical calls to not buy at businesses who accept bitcoin and then change it in fiat money (another from the most stupid things I have heard in my life about bitcoin).

But the most stupid of all the above is to read the full main post because is a totally bullshit. Have nothing to do everything is write there with the making good to bitcoin.

It is hard to find such businesses, because they cannot risk the loss if the bitcoin price drops.

Honestly I don't care if service I am using converts bitcoin to FIAT or not. The one thing I care for is direct bitcoin acceptance if that requirements is met then I am fine.
I hate the idea of imposing on merchants any rules, they can do whatever they want with their money: convert, invest or hold.

Exactly and this type of attitude towards businesses who convert bitcoins to fiat will only push people away, let the business owners decide how they want to run their business, not everyone understand or is familiar with safe keeping and/or using bitcoins, which is why they use services like Bitpay which does the job for them. If Amazon decides to accept Bitcoin tomorrow by using a similar service like Bitpay, would you expect people to not use Amazon?

People who use bitcoin as remittance services, also converts them to fiat, even miners sell bitcoins to cover for their expenses, it's a currency, everyone is free to sell/buy it, more businesses accepting it, increases the trade and it ultimately helps bitcoin become more popular.

Anyone knows any good vendors that offer more than 15% off of the price if paid by bitcoins on checkout?

Block halving and more and more public interest will foster BTC acceptance. Doesnt matter if people exchange or do not exchange BTC for FIAT cause even increased liquidity s good.

But these businesses do not help bitcoin. They hurt it.  They merely increase the bank balances of payment processing companies.  We need bitcoin to properly enter the economy. That means businesses holding and spending bitcoins not just consumers. 

you cant dictate shop what to do with their money... they have to pay stuff too. if ppl want to help bitcoin they should buy bitcoin as soon as they spend their bitcoin.
i once make a poll about it and turn out  most ppl choose not to buy btc as soon as they spend it instead they wait  for price to drop before buy back.

I'd have to agree with croato, as a business you always have to watch your cashflow. It would be a disaster if a business who is a trader suffers excessive losses to their profits due to FX rate changes. Their core business ultimately might not be directly related to bitcoins, so exposing yourself to FX risk might not be the best thing to do.

Almost impossible, because nearly all do. Simply because they cant afford the price fluctuation.

Tell that to bitpay. They earn the 1% fee, and encourage people to accept bitcoin without holding. If many people use bitpay, bitcoin would become another PayPal - accept worse. I personally hate bitpay, they're encouraging people to take bitcoin the wrong way. It's not a currency to be instantly converted, it's an asset to appreciate in value.

most big merchants will convert to fiat to cover their expenses for this very reason, but some merchants that are more familiar with bitcoin themselves might opt to keep part or the whole of their revenue in bitcoin. this might be true if their suppliers accept a flat bitcoin rate, but that's most likely not the case. if adoption becomes more widespread, maybe.

Yeah you are right Still apart from the some online shops and big corportates Other small merchants and groceries not accepting the Bitcoin for trading or any business commitment. I think all will accept soon bitcoin awareness reach all the places. then We will be fine bitcoin without fiats.

Because most merchants still have to pay fees in fiat. They probably still pay their employees with fiat. Bitcoin isn't accepted everywhere so I could understand why they would exchange the bitcoins that they earn.

well now the bitcoin value is increasing, so it would be stupid to dump, i think they can afford to hold, if they see an increase

the average increase is what matter not the random p&d

Can anybody provide a list of companies which pay their employee with bitcoin? Even part of the salary is still OK.

A lot of these websites are owned by people I know personally or are largely considered saints by the community, but there are some I am unsure of.  Just be careful, I am providing this list for the sake of the community, I expect you will use your best judgement when making purchases and shopping online in general.  If there is one thing we know about the internets, thar be dragons.  If you are trying out a store for the first time, try buy something really cheap to test it
Sites are , Bitspend,PayBit.co, BTC Buy and many more...

you don't need to look any further than bitwage, that permit to convert your salary in bitcoin direclty

https://www.bitwage.com/

It would be better if your employer pay all or part of your salary with bitcoin directly, without using a third party.

Yes. In that way, the number of bitcoins on exchanges for sale will reduce and it could increase the value of bitcoin.