Bitcoin Forum

Why is this topic not taken down?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1287705.0

Placing referral links in OP is more dangerous than placing some mediafire links which can contain any virus also?

Any proof that the file contains viruses?

I see nothing wrong with the topic ???

Did I write "this" link contains virus?
I am just questioning this forum's rules about Referral links considered as SPAM in OP but mediafire links which might contain virus are not considered spam.

So you're asking us why are download links available because they could contain a virus? If we were to follow that logic then we should disable all links, because webpages can contain all sorts of nasty things. Do you have any other reasons for which mediafire links should be disabled?

---

---

Update: The only needed explanation is that it is against the rules (specifically rule 4).

Yeah why not or explain with proper logic how & why posting referral links as part of OP results in SPAM ?
Going by your reply, I can place my referral link in any downloadble mediafire link and then place that link as part of my OP?

Okay. I'll lock my thread though I am still not convinced who made this rule # 4 which took you so long to find.

It can be found in the full list of rules.  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0) A example would be BadBear (admin), he does not allow referral links of any kind at all. Moderators/other staff members do not make the rules they try to enforce them. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

I really don't care what's written in these rules about downloadable links as the person who wrote these rules is also a human & all humans are prone to err but the thing that's annoying me is you guys allow placing a downloadable link as part of OP which can literally contain anything and the 1st user to click it and download it might get severely infected but placing a referral link is considered SPAM even though user who clicks that link would surely be knowing at what he is clicking but not if it's hidden is any downloadable link.

Any link found anywhere on the web can contain something dangerous. Just because it can that does not mean that we should disable them. There are websites such as Virustotal that make clicking safer. As for the rules, there is no error. The person(s) who owns/runs the place gets to decide what the rules are going to be. I don't see even the slightest chance of referral links being allowed again. I don't like them either so I'm fine with the rule. However, I'm unable to see your point. Do you want referral links to be allowed/links disabled/other?

and you like these downloadable links because you have know about virustotal and probably have installed their software which would detect if the site contains malware or not before opening it?

Yes, I want Referral links to be allowed as part of OP. It will save lot of unnecessary PM sending work.
If the title of the thread contains how much is the user willing to pay then the one's who are interested in that amount would read further. So, how can placing referral links as part of OP be SPAM?

No. I'm saying that most places on the internet allow links. If you are afraid of them, then start using a VM.

I understand. I'll let someone else pitch in on that 'explanation'. In case that "but mediafire downloadable links are allowed" is your only argument I doubt that you are going to get far with this.

There are lot of things which I literally don't understand about this forum (which I raised in my other thread).
This one would just increase that list by 1 point :)

Not every downloadable file is filled with viruses, if you can't save yourself from them, you shouldn't be on the internet
Its spam as majority will start creating many topics , unneeded ones, just to spread their ref link, creating posts etc. If you don't like the rules, go to your ref safe haven TBN or create your own forum.

Can you please start ignoring me & STOP posting YOUR opinions on my threads?

Its a forum, this is the last place to come if you don't want opinions.

I DO WANT opinions BUT sadly YOU are NOT the person whose opinion I WANT.
Feel free to give YOUR opinions to OTHERS but SPARE ME.

For Heaven sake please NEVER EVER in future comment on any of my thread!

So do you have any problem with my reasoning? If so state them. You asked a question , I answered it. If you don't like viewing my opinions feel free to ignore me, my posts are made for public reference.
And "For Heaven sake " , whats up with the Caps?

I want to highlight the words. Its like I am screaming at you because you are too ignorant to understand what I said politely asked even before in my earlier threads

You only answered my off-topic side comment  :-\

There's nothing wrong with the thread. People are allowed to post links to MediaFire because Bitcointalk does not support attachments. How else is someone supposed to send executable?

Why should executable file be part of OP? Should it not be send via PM only to the one's who are interested in downloading ?
Can you please tell what's wrong with posting Referral link as part of OP then?

It's not even a referral link. It's a link to an ebook that OP is buying reviews from. Does not violate forum policy.

That I know.
Question is how can posting Referral link in OP result in SPAM ?

It boils down to this: (tl;dr: admin says no)

Sending Referral Link is SPAM even in PMs ?

just hit the ignore button if you dont want to read anything from him.

and to get back on topic: referrals are spammy. download links are often useful. hence i support the former to be forbidden ;-)

I believe this is going towards this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1287003.0) and several of similar threads. Well they should be, asked hilarious for clarification.

---

---

Well he seems to "enjoy" my posts while at the same time hating them.

Don't want to ignore him as his comments make me laugh a bit :D
I just want to understand how can posting referral link in OP be spammy and posting link to download something be not spammy ? I am looking for logical reasons not "what you/I/admin thinks"

download links can be useful.
eg another wallet, a chart, trading software, password cracker, epub and so on

imagine an internet without downloads - nearly unusable

imagine an internet without referrals: what a lovely place (i dont know you age, but in the beginning of the internet there wasnt any referrals and it was nice!

edit: btw if you dont care what i, you or admins think.... why did you even made this thread? is there any opinion left you care about (you dont even care about your own opinion? seriously ;-) )

This is 1st reply which has been given some thought but still not good enough to term referral link in OP as spammy.
If this forum does not support referral programs then why are so many signature campaigns running here? Why are these users allowed to post referral links in their signatures?

The mods are just slacking off.

personally i am against referalls in sigads (and against sigads generally)
but its theymos decision as this forum is his. i only can voice my opinion or leave. i decided that this small annoyance is ok so i stay.

I jut want admin to reply with logical reason behind naming referral links in OP as spammy

I believe, I am also raising my voice against against referral links as part OP to be spammy.
Its theymos decision to listen to me or lock this thread & ask me to shut up :)

he will just ignore it or (when he has spare time and see it) write a small post in it. but nothing will change ;-)
IF you convince most of the admins (eg lauda) this might change...but it doesnt look like it as you are telling them you are not interested in their opinion

My best guess is that you are looking for something that is not there. I dont think there is a logical explanation why referal links are not allowed, but that it was rather a decision made based on experience. I remember a time where I was paid to follow someones ref link, so this was certainly not put in place with the first post or if it was, it was not moderated as much as it is now.

I am not interested only in mexxer-2's opinion as he is very very against of whatever I say. (Don't know why, maybe I was his spoiled son in last birth of something :D)
Lauda left for others to convince me. So, I am looking for one logical explanation as to why Referral links as part of OP are spammy whereas downloadable links are not. I can post my referral link inside that downloadable link. would it not be spammy then?

spam refers to the content of the post.
IMHO posts which only exists because they want to share a ref link are spam.
if a post is valid and good AND contains reflink its ok (my opinion).

IMHO that rule is in place because if ref links are allowed there are more spam posts (content wise) and staff has more work to do.

I am also of the same opinion. As long as program being advertised is not against any rules for sites allowed to be promoted on this forum then why should referral link not allowed to be posted as part of OP?
For that matter, I created 1 thread where I wanted referrals for DollarClix (GPT Site where users can earn by completing offers) & mexxer-2 reported it and some moderator deleted it saying it's SPAMMY. Since that day I am confused how was my thread spamming the entire forum?

For me, all those users who post on any Newbie's thread to mark them as scammers just to advertise the campaign they are promoting in their signature are spammers but my thread which was supposed to be read by only those people who were interested in getting those 20 cents or something from me was not spammy at all . I did not put any misleading content as part of my post. I was crystal clear with my requirements but still that post was marked as spammy. Why?

First off , I did say that explicitly posting your ref link is against the rules. The second thread you created was deleted because you were paying in PP(wasn't reported by me) not BTC. Was that all?

---

---

Edit: Thats a discussion for another day(thread) : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786662.0

#1 its against the rules.
#2 you - as a newbie - are still moderated by patrolers, which might be more strict.
#3 I have seen lengthy threads that just had their ref links removed instead of deleted. I would think your post was probably not spam per se, even though I did not see it.

rules have to be followed by anyone. no exceptions.
so the rules says "no referrals" you have to follow it regardless of your content (as shorena said: sometimes only the ref link is removed by staff - which MAY indicate that your post was not that good. impossible to judge though as i didnt see it)

Entire point of this thread was/is: As a Newbie am I not allowed to question the rules which I don't understand? Why do anyone have to take anything w/o understanding the logical reasoning behind it? Which link can be more dangerous for potential user? Downloadable link (where they dont know up front what could be inside that) or Referral link (where they can see what they are clicking upon & even google that site even before clicking on that referral link)

Well, if that's the case then there was no need to invent words like "rebel" or "retaliation" or "raising voice" etc

Both ref. links and malicious links aren't allowed on the forum, while the latter is bit harder(time consuming) to moderate. You can question all you like but as several members have pointed out, they aren't going to change without majority agreeing/"nagging" admins to change them, which isn't the case here.

You are not majority Sir. This forum contains over 600K users (as told to me by Lauda other day).
If its needed then I would wait to see reply from at least 300K users against the topic before locking my thread.

No you are, thats not what Im saying.


I dont think danger is the metric here, but spam. Since spam is somewhat subjective its not logical (see my post about experience). The other thing is that staff is allowed to interpret the rules in their own way. So while some may remove any post with a referal link no matter how constructive the post is, others might only remove the link if the post itself is good (or good enough). I personally think that a patroler (handles newbies only) is more likely to be the first kind of staff.

Grammar policed by mexxer-2

Can I ask the same question when I turn into Junior Member on Dec 22nd ?

I would like to know what a paroler is?

Yes, you're allowed to do that. Going by that logic, should we allow all kinds of spam because it is (potentially) less dangerous than downloadable links? Hopefully you start realizing how faulty this argument is.

No Sir. Please just explain me how can referral link as part of OP be spammy and sending it via PM is not spammy? (though it increases the work unnecessarily for the person who created that thread to get some referrals and pay them)

Do you know what would happen if we let 1 person post a referral link (Note: A referral link is acceptable in a very rare case of a very constructive post/thread/contribution/other; but I'm going to disregard this now)? People would start posting their links not just in single threads, or sections, but everywhere (Note: We can't let a single person do it; it's everyone or nobody). Once that starts, they start using more accounts to post even more -> Spam. This is a chain reaction. Referral links are useless, IMO they should be disallowed forever.

Infact if I was the admin I would make it other way round. No downloadable links of any sort allowed anywhere on the forum.

Sig campaigns are even more useless. Why are they being allowed here?
Going by your agreement, everyone who creates account on this forum would surely be creating multi accounts just to spam their referral link(s) needlessly on all posts every where on the forum?

If you guys are so afraid then why not divide the Services section in sub forums? One of that section dedicated to where posting referral link in OP is allowed but it's not allowed anywhere else ?

1. Please refrain from using multiple posts especially when addressing a single person/post (it is redundant).
2. I've already told you that I do not make the rules.
3. If it were up to me, we would not have signature campaigns anymore.
4. If you want to know why we have signature campaigns, this thread might help(25 pages). Good luck reading.  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786662.0)
5. I never said that everyone would start doing it; I said "people".
6. If you want an official statement then:
a) Looks through admins post history;
b) Wait for one of them to possibly notice the thread and reply (chances are rare if they are busy).

Sorry won't happen again.

I would wait until they notice or this thread dies on its own.

Please check this thread & probably then you guys would be able to understand my point more clearly about making this thread!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1297586.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1297586.0)

Spreading malware is against the rules, all their threads have been reported and will be removed shortly.

Thank you for telling me the obvious Sir!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You still do not seem to get my point. God help you guys!

Did you honestly believe that pointing to something worse would be considered a valid point in the discussion?


I got it, I just dont agree, but as we already have established I also have no "logical" reasons to offer you.

The point for this thread was to point about something worse than not allowing referral links as part of OP. I assume I made my point by pointing to this wherein the 1st user who clicked on that link got his computer infected whereas if that was a referral link telling about some xyz site then that user could have googled about the site even before clicking that link. How come putting referral links as part of OP be spammy whereas putting such links is NOT?

That's why I have not locked this thread yet.

Links in general are not against the rules, because - as pointed out above - it would be silly.
Links that spread malware are explicitly against the rules (#6) unless they come with ample warning for educational purposes.
Non of the above is considered spam per se, but might be seen as such if used in a spammy way.
Referal links are considered spam, because - as pointed out above - they typcially lead to spam. Your experience might differ, but it does not matter.

Please explain how "look links can be used for bad" should make us think "referlink links will never(!) be used in a spammy way".

Please explain how links which ask you to download something (which you are not even aware of) are better than placing referral links?
You guys care more about this forum getting spammed (which I highly doubt would happen as none of the sane user would go around posting his/her referral link explicitly on all posts made on this forum) or user's computer getting infected because of some virus which was placed as part of such a downloadable link which apparently is not violating so called rules of this forum?

To be honest you don't even need to write a rule for not allowing viruses or malware links as part of any post being made on this or for that matter any forum. This is self-explanatory and no one should be doing it. If you find some one doing it then they should be permanently banned.

So a link to download the latest bitcoin core is bad?


You havent been here long have you? Take a look at the mining section[1] from time to time. Alternativly read this[2] thread. Its currently spammed by utter nonsense. Sane users are hardly the metric here. Its the insane, greedy morrons that made these rules a requirement for the sane users to still have a usable forum.


IF a downloadable link leads to a virus it is against the rules. I probably did not get your point, because I doubt its "linking to virus is allowed (which is not the case) so should ref links".


You just found someone doing it, so obviously it happens. Are you suggesting that staff can just make up their rules according to their personal believe of what they consider "self-explanatory"?

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=14.0
[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1278196.0

@shorena: Just because I am a newbie that's why you're so against my opinion. I know you're against newbies raising their opinion.
I doubt you would have argued so much if the same thread was started by some Hero or Legendary user.

Shorena is the most neutral guy you will ever see on bitcointalk

Most is debatable, but he's at the very top. Regardless of OPs rank, all suggestions should be taken seriously (unless it is a troll attempt and whatnot). Just because OP is a newbie that does not mean that their suggestion is/will be bad.

Just like most of the posts made above this post on this thread, I would disagree with this one too.
For reference please check the three posts starting from this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1287765.msg13239428#msg13239428 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1287765.msg13239428#msg13239428)

Just for the sake of answering, I'll answer that isn't it obvious that rules are made for sane users?
Can you stop morons/fools/bots from creating multi's & breaking these rules again & again?

From real life example: Do you think the locks we use on our doors when we go out of the house prevent thieves from breaking in the house & robbing our house? If that would have been the case there there would be no robbery happening anywhere in the world.

Even if you want to make these rules then why not keep them specific to that section only? Every section can have their own rules.
Why not allow placing referral links as part of OP only in Services or Games & Rounds sub-section (whichever section allows users to pay other users for signing up on their site) but nowhere else on this forum?

ad hominem. The "you are new here" by me was uncalled for though, sorry.


I would argue that rules are against insane or sane, but misbehaving users. One might not be aware of a certain rule when violating it for the first time. E.g. one of my earliest posts was necroing an old haiku thread. The post was on topic even though it was in an old post. It was removed and I understood that posting in old threads is not always acceptable here.


Depending on their determination you can not, no. Well you could close the forum for new users, but thats not the point. I would however think that most sane users that are the subject to moderation will take their time and learn about the rules and as such either adopt them or open a public discussion about the reasons behind the rules. Rules of a community are not always straight forward and easily understood. I would think that most communities have rather specific rules and that it takes time to adopt to and understand them.


It would complicate things, but its a possibility.


Because in my opinion - and this is probably what it boils down to, opinions - it would lead to more spam. You would give every member an incentive to create a post without any substance, the referal link. I do not expect lengthy reviews of services with a referal link at the end, but quickly done posts similar to "sign up here, is good <ref link here>".

You really got lot of free time Sir to scrutinize & then reply to each & every word I write. Hat's off!
As per your "opinion" all posts which will contain referral links to xyz site would be without any substance?

Not all, but the majority. As it is now there are good posts that have a ref link, in these cases staff sometimes edits out the ref link instead of removing the entire post. This obviously depends on the person handling the post.

It did not happen with me though. mexxer-2 reported my post and that was straight away deleted even w/o letting me know.

I know and as I wrote above I suspect this is the case because you as a Newbie are still handled by certain mods. Patrollers or as I frequently get it wrong parolers. They handle all newbies, but nothing else. Once your rank increases (should be in a few days) they will no longer moderate you, but the moderator for the specific section you posted in will handle reports. It is my impression that patrollers are more rigid when handling reports and they might be unable to edit posts at all, thus their only chance is to remove the post entirely.

This of course will not allow you to post a referal link, but it might preserve the post.

Can I move my threads back to Services section which were moved to Gambling tomorrow once I will become Junior Member & have AP as 42?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1291988.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1291988.0)

A referallink is spam because it encourages spam.

If I let one user set a referallink in his op, then i'm met with a couple choices by the other fellow users :

A) Hey, cool a link. I like links.( 9,999999999 % of readers )
B) Hey, wait thats a referal. I have a referal for this too. I must post it. ( 90 % of readers )
C) Hurr Durr, i'm a Troll. (Gleb Gamow)

This is because the magic internet money made getting referal money tax and hasslefree.
And since we are in THE MAGIC INTERNET MONEY forum, its actually closer to 98% than 90.

Posting just to post a referal link adds little to no value to a discussion. Therefore it is considered spam.

Opening a Thread just to add your referal to the forum is therefore considered spam. See above.

Its a cancerous Internet Plague that should be EXTERMINATED from any decent forum.


SO if i see you posting referallinks, I WILL FUCKING HUNT YOU DOWN.

wheeew... that felt good.

P.S.: I mod the german section, so cue the nazi jokes.

Sorry, other than this line I understood nothing on your post.

If you gonna abuse your power then you are most welcome to do so but tell me one thing how can placing these downloadable links are not spam ?

That's not abusing his power, especially considering that it is against the rules to post referral links. Moderators are there to enforce the rules not to create them. As for the downloadable links, I'd say that people would not be posting a link to the same thing everywhere (which would be the case with referral links).

Sorry but it's just an assumption that you have. Honestly I don't think its going to matter.

Anyways, I realized I am too little to make you guys even think about the why these rules are here.

Nice. I explained why the rules are there. You chose to ignore that completely and cherry pick one sentence.
Do yourself a favor and stop bothering about this. The rules will not change. I'm out.

If you read my last reply, that's what I did Sir!
Be happy & sleep well now!

I found a "bitcointalk.org" that allows referal links. https://freebitcointalk.org

Looks like a site I wouldnt even create an account on, but maybe Im just biased.