Bitcoin Forum

"Paul Puey, CEO of Airbitz, said in a blog post: "We are excited to announce that we've integrated Fold into our app! Now, you can buy gift cards for Starbucks and Target within the app in the same tab where you can buy and sell bitcoin through Glidera."

So, Fold is now integrated into Airbitz.  Use Glidera, to buy bitcoin to buy a gift card to use via Fold through your AirBitz wallet - to get a coffee! 

Get it?!  Neither do I.  The more ridiculous steps between being thirsty and getting a coffee - the less likely users will adopt the system.  This is just freaking horrible.  I am convinced that major players like AirBitz inability to see this will ultimately cause alienation of end users.  Even a hard core bitcoin nerd couldn't enjoy this transaction.  Real people would laugh their head off if you told them they should buy a coffee this way.  More steps and more middlemen?  = sure death. 

 you > Glidera > Fold > Airbitz > Starbucks 

forgetaboutit

I think this one positively, they may be trying to shift their customers towards bitcoin. As atleast even though they find it horrible at first but later on they will atleast search about bitcoin and its technology. Good for bitcoin community.  :)

I too agree that these are too many steps between being thirsty and having a coffee. But if we don't go through this, we probably won't have sellers/retailers accepting Bitcoin soon... So this is a necessary evil, I think.

Go ask BitPay or GoCoin.  User adoption of bitcoin is near zero.  People don't actually use it.  The process needs to be simplified.  This is not a step in the right direction.  BitPay is also horrible.  Too many steps.

I agree that that sounds retarded.  But there are much more reasons why bitcoin adoption is horrible than these silly apps.

I think companies like bitpay payment processors are hurting bitcoin adoption massively.  They not only instantly convert btc to fiat, they also charge a processing fee just like a credit card company. It also does not give the business any incentive to spend bitcoin in the bitcoin economy, instead the btc is sold straight back to exchanges.  

For btc to grow in value we need businesses to be invested in the bitcoin economy. This means not using payment processors but accepting btc directly the way it was meant to be used.  I think we should spend our bitcoins only at businesses which do not instantly convert to fiat.  

Companies like coinbase bitpay all these multimillion dollar conpanies and others like it are the biggest cancer to arrive on the bitcoin community.

The key reason for low adoption rate is due to its volatility. Isn't that going to cause headaches for financial department of any organisations? How are they going to tag value to their assets? 

That is complete bullshit. Businesses hold things that change in value all the time.  And the "volatility" has beenin a general upward trend since bitcoins inception. Hardly a major problem. This is just a meme a useful meme to deflect away scrutiny from other areas.

Im hoping user adoption will happen due to btc being a store of value now more than as an everyday currency.

OP has a point but it is only about this product.

This actually has nothing to do with Bitcoin, but only with the companies who build their services around the blockchain.
Most are intended to increase convenience for the consumer, but many are practically parasitic middlemen that try to profit from Bitcoin usage.

OP, holy Christ that sounds absolutely ridiculous and this definitely isn't going to help btc adoption.  You're absolutely right.  Sounds like a goddamn maze to get a coffee, and no one in their right mind wouldn't just pay for it with fucking cash.

I don't care if you give me a 100% discount, I won't take five steps to get coffee.  I'd rather pay the $2 and get to my job earlier so I can earn more money.  If I spend 30 minutes fussing with coupons and gift cards, I already lost $100!  

Bitcoin user adoption is not horrible, your way to get a coffie with btc is horrible. You can buy starbucks gift cards etc with bitcoin easily (through gyft.com, on this forum's marketplace etc).

Ingenico has already partnered with Bitpay to allow bitcoin payment at any of its point of sale terminals: http://ingenico.us/press-and-publications/media-library/videos/partner-videos/bitpay-inc.html

When making a purchase with bitcoin instead of credit card the terminal displays a QR code with the corresponding bitcoin amount, which the customer then scans to pay with his mobile phone. We need more companies who make POS terminals adopting this approach!

I will never get tired of saying it:

We need products to be denominated in bitcoins
We need products to be denominated in bitcoins
We need products to be denominated in bitcoins
We need products to be denominated in bitcoins

    [...]

It's actually pretty easy.

If you're already using bitcoin I think there is absolutely no reason not to use Fold/Airbitz to save 20%.

Sure, Starbucks sucks and most people hate going there for overpriced coffee. But think of it this way, whenever you have to go there with your wife, girlfriend, kids, and or friend/coworker that drags you over there might as well spend less or hook them up.

Even if I'd get a 20% discount Starbucks still would be too expensive imo.
I can get those varieties of coffee cheaper in my city. No need for starbucks.
But OP in general you're right. 5 steps to get a coffee, even with a discount, is a joke.People using bitcoin and doing this must be penny pinchers and starbucks fanatics. :D
Fast and easy, that's how it should be.

Agree, it takes many steps to develop technology good enough to eliminate not needed steps.

wrong mindset and bad example.
the example above is like saying an american uses an app to buy euro's, to then buy a giftcard for starbucks america to buy a coffee in america..
ofcourse americans wont see the point in moving to euro's first.

but.. imagine gold.

2015 buy gold with the app, store it.. then next year when the price rises they can sell the gold for profit and buy more coffee..

bitcoin is not meant to be bought, to be sold instantly.. thats just insane. its meant to be bought to be saved up, like a bank savings account.. just without the need of a bank manager to hold it.. the app is just used to make it easier to buy one day and sell many many days later. not seconds later.

One click - now give me the fucking coffee.  That is how it should be.

More steps and more middlemen?  = sure death. 
yes i'm agree,its too much step,even i really apreciate that we can get starbucks coffe with bitcoin,but it hink i will more glad to get coffee from my kitchen,and if i got on some cafe,just do more imple step. me > trade bitcoin > cash > any coffee
more simple and low fee? ;D

Imagine that you have a secret Swiss bank account, will you use those Swiss franc to buy coffee in china?

The easiest way is always use domestic fiat money to buy coffee, only an exchange will suffice that, just like those Forex exchange desks in airport/train station. I really think those forex desks  should add bitcoin conversion in their service, but currently localbitcoins is enough

Think of btc as forex. A company may hold yen for strategic reasons and dump yen due to potential change in government and loss of investor confidencd to gain profits. Yen is backed by Japanese central bank, but...

what is btc based on? It is not backed by any authoritative entity.

Absolutely the biggest problem related to Bitcoin adoption is its connection to criminal activities and army or scammers using it. In that sense, anonymity s been the worst trait BTC has brought us, in addition to bunch of other useful things. Those people who wish to hide all the time are the people who have a reason to hide.

It doesn't even sound reasonable and difficult to actually think about it rather than doing it. Why would you need to establish 2 middlemen for a transaction? I'm heavely with bitcoin adoption but I agree it is too much of an effort like this. Many sites adopted BTC just by partnering with coinbase to exchange btc to usdinstantly. I think that's sufficient.

Bitpay is great. it is just a QR code which you can scan. did you ever pay with BTC  :D ?

Yeah now not largely Bitcoin accepting by the all the places. To araise from this Bitcoin adotion is needed very much. these kind of adoption in bitcoin will help for bitcoin users and all community too.

It is backed by Atlantis at least :D

In fact Yen is not backed by Japanese central bank, just printed by. You bring your Yen to Japanese central bank, you can only get Yen back nothing else. Only the merchant in Japan can give you something useful in exchange of Yen

But you could further look into the example of Swiss franc: If you bring billions of Swiss franc to Switzerland, you really can not get a lot of things there, that is a small country with limited physical goods and services, however many billionaires store their wealth into Switzerland just because its secret banking service

Clearly you have never been to Switzerland.  Probably never even seen a picture of the place.  Limited physical 'goods and services'? You are clearly smoking way too much crack and heroin.  You can get anything in Switzerland.

Backed by their very formidable army presumably?

Aquaman, the King of Atlantis, is the most powerful being in the Justice League.

I've been saying this for a long time but many users here are in complete denial thinking bitcoin is easy to adopt. It's actually one of the most complicated things that can be explained to a common person. That's why Apple and Google and Facebook rule the world, because it's easy and they work.

I'm not in Europe or the US, to get Bitcoins I have to rely on a local transaction (really?) or use shady sites with incredible fees. Even if you are in the states, what's the point of doing that if you just can pay with CC or Paypal? Not to mention non refundable transactions, decimals, endless address, authorization keys, brain wallets and god knows what.

Now don't get me wrong, the technology is completely unique just as the internet was once it started, but it's clearly on its infancy if the goal is to be massively adopted. Maybe in a couple of years with updates and price stability (something I won't even get started with) it can start being adopted by more people. Until then, it's only good as a commodity or investment (either short or long term).

This is what bitcoin actually is, but absolutely not what it was meant to:

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-paper

Bitcoin dosen't need any middleman.

You're missing the fact that Bitcoin is trendy, edgy, cool. Is it easy to get a tattoo or a piercing? Hell no it's not! So why should Bitcoin be easy? If it was easy every little four eyed pussy in town would be using it.

This is a very good point.  I hadn't considered this earlier.

The reason there is zero user adoption is because of lack of incentive.   Not anything else.

Everyone who thinks ease-of-use is more important that incentive has it backwards.

We have made Bitcoin easy to use many times over.   Circle was supposed to be the easiest way to get Bitcoin.  Did adoption start?

No.

Why?  Because it doesn't matter how easy something is to use if people still have no reason to use it.

You're correct that these crazy multi-faceted roundabout methods to get a coffee with Bitcoin are bad.   But they're just a symptom of the larger problem.

Products and services need to be built on top of the bitcoin protocol.  Each product/service will have its own marketing team and incentive structure.

The innovation on the layer above is where incentive is supposed to come from.  

Can the protocol itself support all the innovation that we need on the layer above?   That's the other question.

-B-

Right, but is there any incentive to actually build those services on top of Bitcoin?

There are far too many people providing solutions to problems that don't really exist and this is why there'll be very few Bitcoin focused businesses that survive long term.

It could also be argued that Bitcoin itself doesn't really solve many day to day problems for first world folks however you want to frame it. It's those who are slightly outside that world who should be the ones driving it.

If one starts out with a good supply of bitcoin in one's wallet, whether from mining, employment or purchase, it is easier to purchase goods or make a donation over the web using bitcoin than any other method of payment and it's less risky, too. Complexities appear only if you are living "hand to mouth" when it comes to your bitcoin wallet.  But then, many people live hand to mouth when it comes to fiat.

I have to agree with you that there is horrible and to long and reliant on middle men. Bitcoin to me is meant to take us away from  the middle man and into straight transaction relying on nobody but miners and your wallet security.
I'm still hopeful all that funny business will fade away and we will make straight transaction payments with bitcoin. I do question if it currently gets enough usage to warrant that though.

You get TV from Japan and Korea, cars from Germany, Computer from US, Airbus from France, get almost everything else cheaply from china, but Switzerland? A couple of clocks filled with diamonds selling for millions, not interested for majority of the new generation except people who have nowhere to throw their money

The biggest problem it solves is saving. Fiat money obviously can not do that due to the inflative mandate of all central banks. Before, no one really save in an inflative monetary policy, they all take loans instead. But now new generations realized that no one need to work because the over production of almost everything, so they plan for early retirement instead, so saving becomes a new trend among young people

computers from US??
ummmmm.. apple although american offices, they make their products in china, dells consumer computing is done in asia and mexico,

so what do the swiss give the world
watches, knives, pharmaceuticals, precision engineering.

put it this way if CERN was built in america it would be made of paper-mache from McDonalds packaging, definitely wouldn't of been made using dell or apple. or made using precision engineering

Remember that Swiss central bank suddenly cut its peg with Euro this spring? They know they really don't have so many things corresponding to their money ;)

Anyway the backing is the least to worry, none of the currency's value is decided by a country's economy, it is all decided at exchange by that country's central bank with their foreign  currency reserve. And to protect the exchange rate, you need to have lots of foreign currency reserve. Soros could wipe out small country's currency like Thailand and Malaysia, even Sweden, but he was defeated at HongKong, simply because huge amount of USD reserve of China

And when someone attacking bitcoin's exchange rate, the currency reserve of all the bitcoin users are stand to protect its value

Its definitely can be confusing and alot of steps to get and
use bitcoin. Its usually why i can't get new people into it cause
it can be very confusing to people who dont use / understand
computers and such. That coffee example definitely hurts the
cause

I do think that this might be the right move. All am seeing this is the customers being introduced to the notion of the bitcoins. It will not take too long before you see them giving the customers an option to pay using bitcoins for the services thy get. In such like statements, marketing of the bitcoins is said to be successful. I am just thinking, if the whole CEO is aware that bitcoin is there and doing well, what will hinder the juniors from finding out more.

Ha, no way is any of that true. Nope, not, NO.

well your hopelessly inconclusive

I actually read about this on a news article last night. Yes it does seem to be a hassle, but thinking of it in a different way, its just one more thing that people can buy with BTC. I if you truly wanted and had the means you could BTC on a target card and buy a sweet 4K TV. Or you could even buy a delicious steak. I think this is actually a good step in the right direction.

man. just buy a coffee..why do peple even need bitcoins to buy a cup of coffee... phffff....

and even so they want it.. shouldnt it be just pay bitcoins get coffee

pathetic

I actually disagree. The current users are people who are money savvy - they always look for great ways to increase their wealth. But what if bitcoin attracted users a different way? Through their everyday lives? If shopkeepers provided some sort of small discount for bitcoin, bitcoin would shoot up. As in really, shoot up. We need another source of new users, and I think there are already a few that come naturally to mind.

*Coffeeeeeee...*

im kind of glad its not super easy to spend bitcoin cause it keeps me from spending them. I know
I would blow a lot of btc if I could pay for everything with it. But of course the more adoption the
better

I am more interested seeing that some pension funds allow people to select bitcoin as one of their investment option. Those useless bank issued funds, mostly just bring loss over time, and fund manager took a big cut in fee

Yes more bitcoin retailers should be offering a discount for bitcoin spenders.  It is the only way bitcoin will be adopted by the masses.  USE BITCOIN GET 10% DISCOUNT this way millions of women will start using btc

Great thinking even I am glad because if it was so easy then I wouldn't have saved any Bitcoin and I would have spent all the BTC when the value was I around $300 but happy that I have saved it now the value have shoot up I am considering to trade it bore its value slips down

Bitcoin adoption is slow, not horrible. We have more merchants accepting bitcoin than a couple of years ago. There is nothing you can't buy with cash, credit card and PayPal. Bitcoin need to penetrate those markets. It takes time.

True - you can't pay for your coffee with gold, either, and nobody is complaining about it.

The adoption of bitcoin is slow, but it will be faster as many more people know the bitcoin. I expect several companies will pay staff salary with bitcoin soon.

In buying a coffee with BTC my main concern will be to have to pay at least 5 cents for a transaction fee.
By paying with card the merchant pays the fee while paying with BTC we pay the fees. I think that's the main adoption problem in buying a coffee with my bitcoin

The user experience can do with some work, but think about what was possible three years ago with bitcoin. Not much. We've come a long way in a few short years and what interests and motivates us at Magnr is the fact that there is so much room for improvement.

Purse.io is another example of one of these companies, their discounts incentivise people to learn their process which can take some getting used to, but will improve in the future.

i don't think so, it's not about knowing or not, it's about incentivate them to use bitcoin in some way

one is a discount the other is regualtion, another one is security, another one is merchants accept bitcoin

it's a common misconception that adoption should start from average joe as i see it...

It ain't a bad thing I guess, if we see more and more mediators...
These are just trying to just spread the word, not like us who are common man and can't spread the word out a lot...
They have the ability to do so, so you can't say its adoption ain't a good thing...

It is not slow, but steady.
It doesn't mean that if companies start paying salaries, then we may think that Bitcoins are adopted. It needs a lot more than this, it needs to become mainstream, needs to be used everywhere as money so to get seen and get the significance it needs.

well i do agree to you that this is really horrible.
but i think they just want to promote bitcoin.
but they are just not doing the right thing.
well still their doing their own advertising.

Lazy is a big factor. I live in a city where parking is at a premium. I will pay $20 to park in the building I'm going to rather than walk two blocks for a $17 savings.

I think you'll find merchants would give you discount to pay in bitcoin.  Lot of gas stations give cash discounts, the credit card fees are built into the prices, don't think your not paying them.

I would rather give .5 to a miner, give more money to the merchant and keep 3% away from the bank regardless.

I agree that there are to many gears in this process, but we have to start somewhere and until there are active methods of adapting Bitcoin with easier steps, we have to got through the trial and error stages of this all.

I see what you mean but that is not so straightforward: I proposed to several merchants to start accepting BTC for their own good and to avoid to give their blood to MC/VISA etc.
But man, they are still afraid that BTC is used by terrorists... You see what the media do? ::)

oh, c'mon! Do you really think 5 cents makes a big difference? I don't think so.

If we all want Bitcoin to be accepted more widely we should be ready to sacrifice a bit at least IMO and 5 cents is not a big sacrifice.

But we are not seeing much direct adoption, all we see is another bitcoin processor being used by some service.
This state of over complicated interaction between clients vs. services and merchants need to be cleared out somehow.

Maybe it's all it takes for bitcoin to go mainstream; giving holders of bitcoin opportunity to spend them shows them that they indeed have a value that can
be spent. And it doesn't even matter that much that the user is using third party to pay for items/services, because every now and then you will get certain
user that will then start using bitcoin as point of store of value - which is really what is causing bitcoin to be worth more.

ok folks alot of people are saying buy bitcoin to get discount on products..

so bitcoin is $450
so 0.1btc is $45
so 0.01btc is $4.50

lets say a large coffee is $4.50
which shop would sell a cup of coffee for 0.09btc(receive direct/no middleman). for the retailer to keep or to then converts to fiat the same day only getting $4.05

remember retailers would only accept bitcoin if they got full value.. not 90%.. thats just worse then credit card fee's..

im sorry but that then ruins any reason for merchant adoption. and thus eventually ruins bitcoins usefulness.. all because some idiot wants a quick promotion ploy to cause a pump and dump.
and the idea of using middlemen so the retailer doesnt even realise bitcoin is the currency used, as its pre converted.. doesnt help merchant adoption either, as its not real adoption

the only reason purse.io give discount is because they buy cheap giftcards with atleast 20% discount, and its on the fiat side of getting cheap second hand giftcards that discounts are possible.. not the bitcoin part.

infact people can, without even bothering with bitcoin, buy these giftcards cheap using just fiat. never having to even think about bitcoin.

anyone with some actual proper idea's? you know.. idea's that can make bitcoin acceptance a unique offering that cant be done via fiat

Process of Bitcoin payments through Mycelium can't be simpler, it's just that people need wages in Bitcoin, and that's when things will star to move. Until then it can serve only as a store of value or speculation vehicle.

Maybe Bitcoin as a payment medium is the wrong role for a Bitcoin? I personally see Bitcoin literally as a digital gold, a store of wealth not affected by governments or counterpartys. Maybe the focus should be on that rather that Bitcoin as payment processor. I still say a Bitcoin backed bank is what is needed, they who cares if they use fiat as a processor, as long as they have Bitcoin backing it up.


Getgems is a user friendly way to use crypto in my opinion, search for the app on the App Store.

If you would drink at least three coffee a day (at least) like then we're talking about 15 cents that go in fees every day (just for coffee!). I want BTC to be accepted but if we start using it on a daily basis right now we should pay a lot of fees.

I don't really feel Bitcoin and its adopters have ever been too horrible. Bitcoin will have its flaws, just like anything else.

What should happen is that bitcoin is totally eliminated from from the process, at least in the consumer's eyes. IMO bitcoin doesn't need to get mainstream. It needs to be the one running in the background, eliminating the extra costs, simplifying the process. What happens right now is the reverse. Until we can find a way to put the tech in use this way adoption would still be low.

As per my view first the whole countrys of this world should accept the bitcoin technology and then only the users and retailers will start using it, because they will also not fear of the legal issues and taxation problems, because in some country still bitcoin is considered as illegal, so then how will the retailers will start to take bitcoin as their payment option in their business.

I only read the first few post, andit seemed that most people were assuming this was a way to get a cup of coffee. I assumed it was a way to obtain a gift card to give to a friend. Presumably he takes the card to Starbucks, and they give him (or her) a coffee - a simple standard process. If Starbucks is aware that this method is popular, then maybe they will start sellling gift cards for Bitcoin.

Forcing yourself to use bitcoin when its clearly not practical, is pointless. Just like with everything, use a right tool for a given job.

Bitcoin is good in many things, but not suited for every single use case posbile. For example, its good for transferring money overseas , but not so good for buying a cup of coffee in your local coffee shop. Whats wrong with paying cash for coffee? Paying with cash also works without internet, which you cant say about bitcoin or credit cards.

Id be happy being at the point where its used as a store of value and is stable. being a currency is obviously better because it can be used mostly everywhere but failing that i see no reason why it couldnt be used solely as a store of value even if that wasnt its intended use.

Cash will be always useful when a person doesn't want to use an internet connection for payments and hence bitcoins come handy only for online transactions. Can we use cash when we pay any online bills/buy a product from an online portal unless we choose COD (which is not always available)? No right. Bitcoins have their own advantages like cash where one is physical and one is virtual.

well who say we cant use both methods, u can choose which method u like best. i can see bitcoin like a credit card/debit card where i no need to bring cash out and i need not have to keep the changes which i dont really like to have.

There is bitcoin credit/debit card now. So it is quite convenient to use bitcoin. It is similar to conventional credit cards.

yes i think there is way too many step in buying 1 thing, but maybe this is one of the step to push people to use and acknowledge the existence of bitcoin, so eventhough the step is still complicated, we should support the system

Yup credit/debit card should be the way but it should use FIAT instead of btc for faster transactions. You can top and cash out of it in btc but use it as FIAT. The conversion will take place upon topping and withdrawing to/from the card.

Yes complexion never encourages people to try a new thing and this is just too much, it would be awesome if websites and services started accepting BTC directly or at least through a single middleman (coinbase etc...) but 3 middlemen is pushing it. Companies don't want to link themselves with BTC directly though.

This is problem that we must first overcome!
Scams , Hackings , all kind of other manipulations and malversations..
What community can do about this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=777154.0 ?

Yeah that is a bit ridculous. If you want to see why bitcoin isn't being adopted faster invest a small amount of bitcoins on btcjam. The amount of people new to bitcoin that almost default on loans because of the hurdles they have to go through still to get a bitcoin turns them off of bitcoin. It's sad because these are people (I'd say about 5%) who are looking for an alternative to funding projects that will probably never use bitcoin again in the near future.

Then again these could also be people just making an excuse as they don't want to pay the loans back, but most of them seem legitimate as they ask for help and reply with there frustrations, and don't seem to be making excuses. I think the hurdle is still too high for mass adoption of bitcoin.

yes i am also considering about this,how could we make peole more interest to bitcoin if they should use to much way just to buy coffee,could someone here give me the middle resolve,i mean give the best solution.

There must be a pretty high margin on coffee, certainly McDonalds keep giving me free cups. Imagine the marketing advantage for Starbucks or McD if they started accepting Bitcoins directly in payment. McDonalds kiosks are now fitted with scanners. They say this is for voucher payments, but it would be easy to use them to read Bitcoin addresses.

They might even save some credit card fees by accepting bitcoin. Customers pay the transaction fees.

This is a great example of excess complexion and it will encourage no one even solid bitcoin fans to use it, If they use a single medium like coinbase it will be more possible for users and for the business too "less fees".

Must be some apps that are only used in America...