Bitcoin Forum

I don't get it, now that I investigated and read much more about BitCoins and altcoins.

BitCoins are not secure, not private, not anonymous and to use them - you need extra effort.

Payments made through debit/credit cards are instant and most people keep their money in the bank (in fact, most workplaces choose to pay money only to your bank account now). That said, to use Bitcoin you'd have to buy BitCoins, which creates extra effort. Why do that? I don't get it!

Basically you have a choice: a) just pay instantly using your debit/credit card, or b) pay using BitCoins after wasting some of your time.

I always thought BitCoin was about privacy and anonymity, but clearly it isn't (just read the news...), so that argument goes straight outta window. Other than that, I see zero advantages, and considering what I just said - far as I understand it right now - BitCoin is a completely useless idea, unless we ditch it and start using one of the truly private and anonymous coins, which isn't gonna happen and is irrelevant to this discussion anyway.

So, am I missing something? Am I misunderstanding something? What's up with BitCoins when it comes to buying stuff? The more research I do about it, the less sense it makes to use it.

I'm not posting this to get on someone's nerves, I'm posting it because I want to understand. So don't get all personal and defensive and value-oriented here, I'm looking for facts. Thanks.

I'm talking only about paying using BitCoins. E.g. buying a monitor or a book or headphones using BitCoins instead of a credit/debit card. It's not about being a merchant or selling/buying illegal stuff on .onion sites, nor is it about using altcoins.

Note by which I seek to quench one potential argument: if you buy something and want to get it at some point in your life - you have to enter your name and address.

Speaking based solely on my point of view, we use Bitcoin as it has value, and stable value, as opposed to every other coin which fluctuates to all hell.

I am also curious as to what articles make you think Bitcoin isn't all the private or anonymous. And as to why you say we are wasting our time.

It's fine by me if you want to watch your savings depreciate over time and, when you're 60 years old, you find out that your life savings are worth 30% of what they where when you earned them. But I on the other hand am interested in appreciating assets.

Bitcoin is secure, much more so than credit/debit cards. You are much more likely to get your credit card information stolen than you are to get Bitcoin stolen. With Bitcoin, there is no need to reveal your name or address. You don't reveal a credit card number so thieves can't steal your credit card and make your credit score tank. Credit card fraud is a huge problem and Bitcoin completely removes that.

Another thing, Bitcoin does provide a layer of anonymity. It is pseudonymous, so while yes people can trace your transactions, they don't actually know who you are. They don't have an identity associated with the address unless you choose to reveal it. There is no name or physical address to steal. Along with that, you can't get your identity stolen like you can with credit/debit cards.

Bitcoin is also a lot more convenient than credit cards or debit cards, especially to those who can't get those cards. If you have bad credit then you can't get a credit card. Bitcoin gets around that, it is like a debit card, but it doesn't have the problem that debit cards have, theft. Debit card numbers are easy to steal, and that can drain your entire bank account. Bitcoin doesn't have that problem.

Payments made through credit and debit cards are not instant. They do not instantly become reversible. Those transactions are reversible up to 180 days. With Bitcoin, it becomes irreversible after 10 minutes. Even if it takes longer, those transactions are still confirmed in less than 180 days. This is better for merchants than consumers.

I'm not talking about using it instead of altcoins, I'm talking about credit/debit cards, so let's not compare that. Although there are coins with much more stable value, I don't recall which it was though, but it was one of the actually private/anonymous/secure coins.

I don't save articles so I can't link you, but I remember how my route of research went the first day, so maybe that'll help. I was reading about privacy, then went to crypto forums, which lead me to a few articles about government ceasing assets and bitcoins from people, including the guy who ran silkroad. Then I googled around for more ceasings and tracebacks as to who was using bitcoins and found more info. That's probably where you would stop reading. Afterwards, I googled private coins and read tons of articles on comparisons and individual assesments as to how particular coins (mainly bitcoin at first) work.

We're also not talking about savings here either, we're talking about using bitcoins to buy stuff online instead of using credit/debit cards. Please read the post again, I think I made it clear.


If you don't reveal your name or address, how are you going to get your shipment? I was actually looking into that, but from my - so far very short - research, there is no way to do that, especially in the US (i'm from europe though).

As for revealing credit card numbers and all that, read up on bitcoin fraud, there's plenty of articles on that, most of which I even skipped as my main concern is privacy, and because I trust myself to not use my credit/debit card at places that say "buy 1 Geforce 980ti, get one free!"

You have to reveal it if you want your shipment, so that's a moot point, so I'll just refer to the two paragraphs above.

First off, stop repeating yourself with the theft, it's getting annoying to read the same over and over again. And now to the point: How is BitCoin more convenient? I outlined specific points as to why debit/credit cards are a hell of a lot more convenient than bitcoins. Your workplace won't pay you bitcoins, it'll put cash into your bank account which, which means debit/credit card. As for a bad credit, that's only relevant to a) big purchases, b) credit cards. And bitcoins work like a debit card, which you can get whether you have low credit or not.

I don't see why it's better for payments to be irreversable - if you want a refund (or issue one, though we're talking purely about the customer's perspective here as outlined in the first post) it's a hell of a lot easier. And whenever I payed for anything, the payment was always instant. Always. No exceptions except for one (out of literally 100+ times) when I transfered money to a friend's bank account around new year.

U said it all here, just think about it for a second. If u need something u need to use some kind of paymant for that. For payment u need money/bitcoins. So dont u see its almost the same thing. Everyone like something, here people like bitcoins. Pretty simple, wasting time here, or wasting time on some 12 hours per day job on wind, rain, sun... well we all need some income.
For many of us this is a side thing, so why not to use my free time to try to earn something on nice and comfortable way (sittin in may chair, drinking something, smokin a cigar..al that in nice and hot room).
In my case its nice way to earn something for gambling. I dont spent my money, just what I earn here and on internet and its pretty fun acctualy.

Alright, I see the point of view you're coming from here, so I'll try to work with this a little better.

For the silk road case, if I remember it correctly, the reason why the Bitcoins were seized was not because of them being traced, it was because they were being stored on accounts that were accessible by any party when they are in the right location, similar to having a typical wallet on your desktop. You can just get past the user password and you're in.

The thing is that it isn't, from what I know, the tracing of the transaction that gives away the identity of a user; it's other mistakes that pile on top of each other, which allow for government agencies to tie transactions to them via internet traffic or through similar means. This just serves as more evidence, and is typically not where government organizations can determine who an owner of an address is. Once they seize the hardware of a suspect, they can go through and trace transactions, compare them to the blockchain, and then figure out who other people are through interpolating/extrapolating the information of other communications. This would be like I tell Person A "I'll buy weed for $50" and then they see a transaction for $50 going to Address X, they can have high confidence that Person A owns Address X. This might be what you are referring to. The same thing would go for credit cards or any other forms of payment, not just Bitcoin.

I understand that Bitcoin is -technically- worse than other form of payment, when it comes to saving time, however it is better for merchants because it is harder to reverse a transaction, in turn making it more difficult for scammers to succeed. You did cover this in the other statement however, so I'll just leave that.

This is just what I remember/know, and I could be wrong.

Also I find this somewhat entertaining, it's always fun going back an evaluating why I think is something is correct. I apologize if I come off as rude.

1. the cops didnt seize the silkroad funds by analysing the blockchain. they didnt grab it remotely..they caught him because of his gmail account being linked to advertising silkroad (not related to any money investigations)
it was only when arrested did they demand he turn over funds..
this means that unless your arrested and forced to hand them your funds, the authorities cannot freeze your funds or suck you dry remotely.. you have to give it to them under force or store the privatekey somewhere that they can find. just like bank notes

2. bitcoin is anonymous.. right up until the very second you tell people your name in the same conversation/medium as a bitcoin address..
its like bank notes.. anonymous until you make a forum post telling everyone which bank note serial numbers you own. they can then log this and keep an eye out on you

3. holding fiat in a bank account for 3 years might get you 10% interest.. but bitcoin is deflationary(limited supply) and without even needing interest bitcoins value will be higher after a few years (ignoring the speculation pump and dumps in the middle).

4. bitcoin fraud is far less then card cloning, pickpocketting, nigerian prince scams of the fiat world.

5. if you hold bitcoin in your own private key, greek banks cant limit your access, police cant freeze it remotely, its like having cash under your matress but able to spend online instantly. the only way it can be taken from you is if you naively give it over..

If you're strictly comparing using btc vs debit cards for shopping on the Internet, I agree it's not a huge breakthrough or game changer.  I think it is a way more secure but we have a system where you're not responsible for unauthorized charges on your accounts...  Imagine if you were responsible for unauthorized charges on your credit cards, nobody in their right mind would ever use a debit or credit card because the storage of those #'s is not in your control.

Also your assumption that you have to give up privacy for shipping is not correct though https://www.privatebox.co.nz

So are you concluding it's a useless idea because it doesn't make shopping easier for you?

Bitcoin is secure.

That is what I said in another topic. It is only a good idea if you are paid with bitcoins.

Buying bitcoins with money that you can already spend with your bank debit card does not make any sense.

And don't forget the fact you will lose money after you bought your bitcoins, because they sell you at much higher prices. You will have less to spend in the end.

I only use Bitcoin because I am getting paid with bitcoins, when I stop being paid with bitcoins, then it won't make any sense to continue using it.

End of opinion.

To buy goods and luxury car

I'm talking about paying using BitCoins, not buying a bunch of hardware and mining it. I do see your point if you don't spend anything to get BitCoins and use it for say gambling. But that's still offtopic.


The thing is, blockchains are visible to everyone, I do recall this sentence in one of the articles explaining why it's traceable and not private/anonymous.

I would assume (and I could be wrong), that if you do not use your BitCoins it's harder to trace them back to you, but you have to use them, otherwise it's pointless to sell something for BitCoins. So say if you sell them and get usable currency like USD or send it to say Amazon (I think it accepts bitcoins now?) and buy a book, it's tied to you. In other words, in the end it always becomes tied to you somehow. I may be wrong here again, and if it doesn't - I would sure as hell like to know how. I like something like Monero and ByteCoin and a couple of other currencies due to their untraceability, hence being anonymous/private.

We're also talking about legal purchases here mostly, as that's what I'd be using it for, like Amazon and whatever other useful sites allow for BitCoins. Even then though, it'd be tied to my name. So I still fail to see the usefulness of it.

Not at all, I was being afraid I'm coming off as rude, you seem more of a diplomat that I am.


You need to provide your real identity information for a mailbox in new zealand. a) it's in new zealand. b) and more importantly - you have to provide your real information. Which means it is tied to you.

No, I'm concluding that it's a useless idea because I don't see how you can use it anonymously and privately, which in my understanding is the idea of cryptocurrency.


And this is the kind of spam posts due to "signature advertising" I had in mind in another thread.

Bitcoin is the new revolution to me! :D

ok example time..
you put some bitcoin into purse.io (service to give you amazon giftcards).

all the blockchain see's is 1R4nd0m4ddr355blahblahblah -> 14n0th3R4ddr355blahblahblah

so lets say authorities wanted to know what 1R4nd0m4ddr355blahblahblah bought.
they would need to search the whole internet and hope that owners of 14n0th3R4ddr355blahblahblah is made public, or they would need to contact every bitcoin related company and ask if they own 14n0th3R4ddr355blahblahblah.

if purse.io admitted they owned 14n0th3R4ddr355blahblahblah. then the authorities will know 1R4nd0m4ddr355blahblahblah paid purse.io
lets say you were dumb enough to use your real life email address with purse.io
authorities can demand the email address linked to the account deposit 14n0th3R4ddr355blahblahblah.

but.

lets say you gave purse a throw away email. just used long enough to get your giftcard number. and you used that same throw away email to download a online book. where you used tor/proxy

in short the authorities are screwed. and your anonymity is secured.

again anonymity is only as good as the persons ability to keep their mouth shut and not reveal too much to the public.

and lastly., if your only doing legit transactions, the authorities wont even bother you, they wont be able to show a valid reason to get a warrent to compell purse.io either. if your doing nothing dodgy you got nothing to worry about regarding authorities.. but its still worth remaining anonymous incase friends, relatives or other people want to spy on you

First I am not using bitcoin as you mean but only as an investment. So I am using it to have more bitcoin, to make other investments which can be made with bitcoin and then I am using it as an investment not using it but holding in my wallet (because I hope that its price will go high in the future).

Then second your meaning in the post is why all this attention for bitcoin because he is not better than other tools of the same family. So have no any kind of superiority regarding the other ways of payment. Maybe is so now that it has began to became regulated and legalized. But was not so when bitcoin was firstly introduced at the market. And it is not so for all that people who use it at the Dark Web. And according to some media this market represents about 80-90% of all the volume of the bitcoin market. So here where comes most of the volume of it.

Third, according to me bitcoin may have today the specifies told by you at your main post but you must not forget that is an invention (first successful materialization) of the disruptive technology peer to peer. This technology will change the future everyday life of the human kind radically. And this product, as such, will have an important place in it. At least this is the prevision. The market seems that give reason to all that. Even after big falls(not for its faults) bitcoin is reestablished day by day more.

Why will purse.io or anyone admit the authority in first place that they own that address? Why will they ever need to reveal the addresses they own? Neither can the authority hack your website's database and see for themselves. So what's the point of making the owner of an address public! ???

Bitcoin is secure. The only thing is that the user need to have good security practices. As long as you don't say "I own 1ranochigo" publicly, no one can tie the address to you and is hence pseudonymous.
The fee would still be lower than the fee you would need to pay your bank or payment processor. That is without factoring in the risk of your bank/payment gateway closing your account.
a) Pay a higher fee if the goods is reversible. b) Have some kind of rebate or lower TX fees.
Bitcoin itself is decentralised, have low fees and has instantaneous transaction speed. Being pseudonymous is enough to prevent most people from spying on your spending habits.
Bitcoin transactions, when having at least one confirmation is very hard to reverse. Payment processors like PayPal allows chargeback for over 180 days. This is unsafe for people dealing with virtual goods(game credits, starbucks card etc.)

exactly my point.. and why i said they authorities would need a warrent to do that. and the only way to get a warrent is if there is proof of criminal activity..
which i then said if the OP is only doing legit transactions he would never need to worry about such warrents being issued. and should only worry about friends and family spying on him via other means

You have a valid point but I still think bitcoin is anonymous and secure compare to all the card available if you are going to but online but asking for your address you can send them to a wrong address but if you but using those cards they can easily trace who you are and one big advantage is the fee I was cut off $25 from one of my purchase from one popular online processor

I mean people can debate about the anonymity and security of bitcoins in general.  You can see these debates coming up all the time here on this section of the forum. But I suggest you to go look at some of the posts by people in the Economics section, and you will see the bigger picture bitcoin tends to tackle when it comes to how it can affect the economics of everything.  Bitcoin tends to have a way to leveling out the playing field for everyone and not become a slave to the Central Banks who control inflation rates as they seem fit. I know this seems kind of silly to think of it this way, because the dorks who watched Bitcoin grow into becoming a contender for a world currency will probably become rich off of this (and probably you too in the long run), but this is beside the point because it solves a lot of problems the Central Banks tend to create.

Everything with Bitcoin has been pretty much planned out by Satoshi since day 1... that there will be a supply curve that tends to level off after a good number of years have passed, which is controversy in itself, because there are block size debates and that sort of thing and how long should miners "mine" a block at a given time.  The fact of the matter is, is that the number of Bitcoins that are going to be produced is fixed at 21 million.  There will never be any more or any less produced (even though you have a couple million coins already lost by early miners accidentally "throwing away" tons of bitcoins because they didn't see the value in them, or they might have lost their private keys to their wallets that contain a lot of BTC.

This is an extremely valuable tool, because the first time in human history, we have the first "digital gold" if you will that can be mined by any one at any time... Though there are problems of the barrier of entry now, since in order to be profitable at mining now, you need an extreme amount of electricity and hashing power on hand to even have a chance of competing amongst the big time mining farms that are now up and running.

Another thing that I personally think makes Bitcoin extremely revolutionary, but hasn't really made it's way is the fact that if this currency were to be accepted world wide, then that means that everyone will be playing on the same "playing field" in a way, in that everyone who produces a certain good can value their good or service in Bitcoins, regardless of how much Bitcoins go for in their fiat currency system that's prevelant in the nation their in

Example: You have someone in India making jewelry, but the reason why they are still poor is because they only deal with local people who want to buy them, and they only pay in rupees.  If they were to expand their business and try marketing themselves online and selling their goods and services across the globe, as well as locally, then they could probably get the same amount of money value they would for a good or service that someone in Europe or the US would if they produced the same exact product.

---

All of this is not to say that Bitcoin doesn't have major flaws, it obviously does have a ton of flaws... but the thing is that there are so many people hopping on board now and making it easier and more accessible to people every where.  The biggest thing we need to be worried about now is not necessarily the anonymity aspect of bitcoin, because now we all know that bitcoin is and always will be pseudonymous and is very public in transactions; but rather it should be about the block size debate and how we should look at how we should give a better incentive to miners to mine.  Without hashing power and people willing to dedicate resources to continue mining, the security of transactions will severely drop and everyone will not want to use Bitcoin any more.

Simple, you shouldn't.

If you don't value the things which Bitcoin can provide (censorship-proof value transfer / store of value which can't be accessed without permission of the private key controller), don't use it.

Now, someone who wants to send or store value without the help of a middleman or the permission of an authority, they turn to Bitcoin.

well, there's why bitcoin debit card exist, to help people buying stuff while merchant just only accept credit card or paypal
just use something based on benefits

Simple comment but actually real. That is reality having bitcoin is like having something that you want secret. You want it to be yours only not being controlled by anyone. And that is what bitcoin can provide to you. An anonymous human but with money.

I use bitcoin because I am in control of what happens to it, I am responsible for keeping my bitcoins save.

I don't have to rely on a bank to do this for me. By just holding bitcoin, I could make more profits in the long run rather than having my money on a savings account.

To me I use bitcoin as a savings account by investing in it. When I need fiat, I can exchange at any point.

because you can avoid taxes for small things :D, and because there are discount for you on purse for example

so double saving for your wallet, more than enough to use bitcoin, not to mention the known things, like low fee, faster sending(does not confuse it with faster transaction...), i mean you don't need to put crap details like ccv and akin...

BitCoin? i only know Bitcoin.

I see having bitcoins as a savings account as well as an investment. I want to stick with bitcoin on a long term, so that's why this is the best option for me.
As well as not having to depend on a bank or anything. I can move my bitcoins whenever I want without having a lot of time between transactions.

for me I do like using it and I do think its very useful but not only
thats its a big time speculative play. A few of my friends have
never even sent a bitcoin they just bought a few to invest. So
you dont have to believe its the greatest thing to believe it can
double faster than most investments.

I think bitcoin.org does not agree on that.


https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#is-bitcoin-anonymous

Or some other sources: http://www.bitcoinisnotanonymous.com/

-When i'm ordering from fasttech, for example, i get more bonus when paying with bitcoins, and payment is instant, so i don't understand your
 point of "wasting time, or having to wait". Same thing applies to many other merchants and services.
-Merchants love bitcoin because they have no fee's attached to it or they are minimal.
-I use bitcoin to store my funds, where noone can touch it (See examples of what happened to Greece, and before that Cyprus). Your fiat money on the bank account can be frozen in a second tho..
-Bitcoin by it's structure is created to likely move upwards in price with time, so i invest, and use it as a store of value
-Bitcoin has a limited supply of 21 million, while fiat has infinite supply, meaning that fiat MUST devaluate proportionally with time, compared to non infinite resources/items/valuables.

What more does someone need to understand that bitcoin is the future?

It doesn't have any natural advantage in day to day use and its certainly easier to use card or cash in those situations. Where Bitcoin shines is the ability to transfer across borders almost instantly, and able to store it securely. No other option will have you store your own money, you will be relying on 3rd party unless you stuff gold bars in your mattress.

The simple answer is: No you don't. You just need to buy and hold bitcoin, wait for its price to rise 10-100 times and sell a little bit for fiat money, then you can happily spend your fiat money with whatever debit/credit card

I think I may have an answer for you..... Cryptocurrency is the future.  Dollars and coins are slowly going to be replaced.  Its going to happen because the world's economies are basically entertwined with technology.  It's the new "cool", even if it is stupid.  It's just going to happen.  Now, with that said, right now the technology infrastructure is just being built out.  Right now, even in the Fiat "Dollar" world, you have a migration from electronic debit/credit cards to chips / sensors / biometrics / smartphone pay etc.  Even if cryptocurrency were to all die tomorrow - you'd still have this migration heading towards all digital payments.  But I will admit that RIGHT NOW the technology infrastructure isn't here yet.  So you are partially correct that it is a bit more difficult to use bitcoin now, than simply putting it in your bank and using the debit card. 

But the degree of difficulty is shrinking, and already there are some advantages to being "first in line"......

1) With Coinbase for example, I have a "Bank Account".  I can hold my dollars in my account, or I can hold bitcoins.  I can have dollars AND bitcoins mixed in the same account.   At normal times when bitcoin is on an upwards growth trend, I keep it all in bitcoins, and my money appreciates (like a super interest bearing checking account - only a LOT better than any fiat bank pays).  If I see a down spell - I instant exchange it into dollars with the click of a mouse.   So my online Coinbase Account acts as 1) My checking account that has a direct linked debit card 2) My savings account that pays pretty darn good interest 3) an Investment portfolio that I can actively manage if I want.

2) Now that I can spend my bitcoins, I can feel safe enough to also directly accept bitcoin payments.   As a business man, this expands my potential customer base, increases my offerings to my customers.  All good things in the business world.

3) I'm ahead on the learning curve than the average Joe.  When the "Switchover" comes, I will be ready to take advantage of a lot of business migrations / confusion.  By capitolizing on that I will increase marketshare in my business.

4) If You Believe (and I do) that the current global fiat system is destined to crash and fail at some point int he next year or two - then you have your money in a place that will still have value, and actually may explode in value, once they start having bank holidays, and people start fleeing to safe haven currencies like gold, silver, and now bitcoin.

So for me, after a brief learning curve, that I feel I'd have to go through sooner or later anyway, I'm actually currently holding and spending bitcoins pretty much with ease.  I expect as I get my system and kinks out, and as the bitcoin/cryptocurrency infrastructure system improves, int he end it will be just as easy as spending dollars ever was - maybe easier.

Buy all the items on your list at a 25% discount with purse.io
Fight government corruption... Bank greed... devaluing fiat & limited boarders.
Or collect your FUD $s from the 1%

No one forces you to use Bitcoin. No one pays with gold yet that doesn't mean gold is valueless. The value in Bitcoin is in its amazing money features, not if people use it to do groceries.

We don't use bitcoin for the anonymous purposes. We use it because it has a 21,000,000 coin cap, and because it's not controlled by the goverments. It's not really taxable unless you cash it into fiat, too!

I do agree with you, when I shop using debit/credit card (because the merchant doesn't accepts Bitcoin), I am always worried that my credit/debit card information might get stolen and someone might steal the money from my account or shop using my credit card. But when paying with Bitcoin I don't have to worry about these things, because no one other than me can know my private key and even if they did, by the time they do any damage, my funds would have moved from there to another address. So A.) Its more Secure.

B.) I am in control of my funds, banks can't seize my funds for whatever reason.
C.) I don't have to pay huge fees to banks for holding and spending my own funds.

Those are some of the reasons I prefer shopping with BTC but OP if you don't feel like using it, no one is forcing you to.

ITS ABOUT THE ECONOMY WHICH IS FAILING IN THE FIAT AREA AND THE POWER OF PEOPLE TO CREATE SOMETHING REVOLUTIONARY!!!

Now you put some effort and "waste time" like you say but one day ill buy some fiat from you so i can whipe my butt ;)

I think this question you have is very pointless...you can ask the same thing about many thing

Why go in the bank if there is drive trough
Why build shops if EVERYTHING is online
Even you writting your post is waste of time so why did you do it?

Its more knowledge and believing in something and best part is when more and more people believe in the same in the good :)

If I phone up and order something using debit/credit card I have to give over all my card details, now they aren't supposed to keep my details but there's nothing stopping them.  Makes for extremely easy theft.  Now if I paid with Bitcoin I wouldn't have that problem.

I am using bitcoins as a savings account. I can invest into bitcoins as well as save up for the future.
I believe that bitcoin will be worth a lot in 10 years, that's why I am investing and saving up bitcoins.

I use bitcoins because I don't have to depend on a bank or any corporate company to deal with my bitcoins or transactions. It's easy to use for me and faster than any bank out there. I store my money into bitcoin as well, it has much potential to grow in value in the upcoming years.

Cryptocurrency, bitcoin included, is great to buy goods and services on a global level.  If I am canadian, buying from china for example.  I have to convert to usd, then send it, then they convert it back to their local currency.  with btc its simpler and the fees are lower.  transaction times are fast compared to a wire transfer.  Also its peer to peer, no passing through a bank or other intermediary.  The block chain tech is useful for record keeping and it is safe, secure, fast and innovative.  I have bought many things, usually with dogecoin as transaction times are much faster.  Those that say its just a store of value are wrong.  Bitcoin derives its value from its usage and how useful it is.

If you do not find the slightest advantages of using bitcoin, or even do not have easy to use bitcoin, why did you get into this forum?
I think a lot of people came to the conclusion that bitcoin is not profitable because they do not really like bitcoin, but if they already have bitcoin and use it, I think they'll change his mind, including you.

Lets just say some of us love the freedom to choose how to spend the product of our labour, payments from credit cards are not instant for sellers and we no longer need banksters in the middle telling us how it should be done....... ;D

Dont bother using this useless technology, oh untill that is, someday when you cant get by with out it...... all the best ;)

Hope this answers your doubts.

That "extra effort" to buy the bitcoins could pay off huge when bitcoin reaches its peak. The main reason it is better to use this? No taxes and high fees that a bank would charge, especially if you are a merchant. But like most of the others are wondering, why are you on a bitcoin forum if you don't get or agree with it? I hate Chevy El Caminos but I do not bother finding an El Camino forum to trash them  ;)

The "cheep fees" in Bitcoin can change very soon to worse:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3xt8hc/meanwhile_the_last_10_blockshint_well_soon_see/

And I'm not sure if "no taxes" is good slogan for advertising bitcoin. It implies that bticoin is primarily used for tax avoidance. Just more reasons for governments to ban bitcoin, and legit merchants to avoid it.

There is no way I can be bothered to enter my name, address, billing information, and credit card number into every website that I might want a small purchase from.

I do not use Paypal because they are thieves.  They have stolen money from me before, without even talking to me about it or giving me any chance to appeal.  Paypal does not work for you, Paypal works for ebay.

So if I want to unlock a cheap flash game at some random website like Kongregate.com, I just send bitcoins.  I would not give them my debit card number, but Bitcoin allows me to pay instantly without any hassle.

If I want to buy a cheap service from Fiverr, I just send bitcoins.  Maybe somebody is downvoting your favorite post, and you want to buy upvotes from someone in the Phillipines for $5.00.  Maybe you want to commission a 30-second advertisement by a woman split-screening herself, and then herself with a blonde wig, and calling herself "The Ad Twins".  You can do it faster with Bitcoin.

There are even independent websites with independent films - you can rent the film for $3.99.  Do you want to give them your debit card information, and fill out a long form with your name and billing address, just so you can watch a documentary one time?  You can pay with bitcoins, and the movie starts about 5 seconds after you click "send" from your wallet.  (I've done this...the documentary was about Bitcoin)

I have also bought Reddit Gold with Bitcoin, which was fast and easy.  I would probably not take the time to enter my billing information just to spend $2.00 from my debit card.

I also bought physical items which were shipped to me from China, on a now-defunct ebay-type website called OneWallet.  They did not need to use an intermediary like Paypal, because all payments used Bitcoin.  I would not give my debit card information to someone in China, but I didn't have to.  I paid them instantly with Bitcoin.

fees are not really a problem, if anything they will become smaller, because the price will become higher, and you need to spend less , hence less fee to use

it will be levelled out in the end

the no taxes will be certainly true for small things(which is also partially true with fiat already...), but for large things, i'm sure you can not avoid them completely

What are you talking about. Bitcoin is secure and anonymous. Bitcoin is a new way of paying for things. Some people like it, others don't. Why are you on this forum if you don't like it?

There's one important point what you missed. Let's scroll back...not very far, just to mid 2013. 1BTC worth $60 in that time. Let's assume we bought 1BTC. Take a look at what we were able to buy for $60 back then. Now scroll forward to these days 1BTC worth roughly $420 now, $60 is still $60. Take a look at again on the shopping basket what we can buy for $60 and what we can buy for 1 BTC today. You know this is why we like it :).

The main reason for the current slower/more expensive transaction confirmations is due to the higher transaction volume and lower block size. There are optimizations planned to improve Bitcoin Core and the network's efficiency here (https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html). Transaction fees limits are decided by the miners, whether to accept transaction with 0.001BTC/kb fees or not include any Tx at all(except coinbase). With the diminishing block rewards, miners would be forced to accept more TXes. With the current volume, 0.0001BTC/kb fees is sufficient.

Government can't ban Bitcoins or stop tax evasion. Government can probably add taxes to Bitcoin exchange but that won't stop this.

I love that comment using the past. They wont understand if they havent been there or for some who havent been there but with knowledge knowing how low bitcoin is in the past.

One of the reasons to use Bitcoin is cases like mine: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/the-africoin-report-libya

when your country don't/can't provide... not many people in Libya are banked and more than half don't have credit cards. paypal doesn't support our country.. but we all have mobile phones & internet access... Bitcoin is one of the few options we have to buy/sell online.

after reading a lot about Bitcoin (been user for a year) now I know it's not for everyone. but Bitcoin can be used in things that credit/debit cards can't.

People will come out with all sorts of pros and cons, in the end it's really up to you to decide if it brings something new to the table and if you want to use it. Honestly I don't see Bitcoin as being any 'better' than the current system in place, it's just evolution. Just like the 60's was not better than today, it was just different.

Nothing is truly safe. Bitcoin has many advantages over a debit card and as time goes on it will become apparent why it is better than debit/credit/banks.  Right now it may be hard for people to see that but you simply don't have to participate.

I understand the OP's argument; however, one thing is missing in regards to using debit cards verses bitcoin, fees!  Fees for this and fees for that!  Fee's for international commerce are huge.  Not only are there huge fees for international commerce but try using your bank card for micro transactions!  (Don't really try that because it's not wise)  AND...The number one most attractive aspect of Bitcoin is that it is DECENTRALIZED!!!  There is no middleman telling one what they can and cannot do with their money.  There is no one single entity controlling it's value, no inflationary manipulations nor deflationary manipulations.  My bitcoin, here in the US, is worth the same as your bitcoin in Zimbabwe!  Wow!

Bitcoins are not secure, not private, anonymous and not to use them - you need extra effort.
Can you explain why you said bitcoin is not secure?
If you still choose a credit card to make a payment, what if you do not have a credit card and had to make the difficult steps and takes more effort, rather than making bitcoin wallet is simple and fast?

It's not hard to see that. The real early adopters have seen this comming back in 2010/2011. And look now, they are greatly rewarded for their trust in Bitcoin. Only ignorant people find it hard to understand that Bitcoin as technology and currency is far superior compared to the old fashion financial system.

Some will appreciate having decentralized currency in wallet you can trust only after they loose all fiat savings in hyperinflation (and dont be fool it cant happen or has little chance, check history for facts!). Obviously the smart ones holding Bitcoin already.

The only reason why i should bitcoin than use credit card because bitcoin have a simple payment and fast registration,can you imagine if you can use ceedit card without go to bank to regist your account?if not,than you should pick bitcoin.

I dunno if it's ignorance, but rather years of indoctrination from the fiat financial system that it's the best and safest option... They just follow like sheep, like they were taught.

Then you have strong supporters of this system and shills being paid to spread fud and confusion about Bitcoin, so it makes it even more difficult to understand.

Let's take all this in consideration before we judge them...  ;)