Bitcoin Forum

Hi guys,
I would like to share my thoughts about paypal..
From what i understand, there are 2 ways to send money through paypal.
First is as goods and services.
Second is as "transfer money to a friend or family"
Transering money as goods and services gives the sender the ability to take back the money with the excuse that the item or service is nos as described. Ideal for scammers..
Transfering money to a friend or family does not give you that option. So why nobody wants to trade like that? Why everytime someone even mentions paypal, he is accused as a scammer?

My understanding with family and friends payment chargeback is still possible as you are able to claim "Unauthorized payment"

i dont understand why u post such question on a bitcoin forum, and more of it, why in marketplace section ?

You can still chargeback regardless of the method you send it by. It doesn't matter.

The problem, if the $300 imposter email paypal account doing a chargeback against me is anything to go by, is that paypal appear to have an undocumented "official" policy to always allow a $ chargeback to go through at the expense according to paypal of the bitcoin seller, even when it is obvious that paypal allowed an unknown email to set up a paypal account and do a chargeback.  Because paypal leave bitcoin sellers in the lurch at every opportunity, bitcoin sellers cannot risk trusting only a paypal id.  

Should paypal official policy change to being more balanced; jail for someone attempting a chargeback fraud from stolen email accounts, then please could paypal issue a news release so that everybody knows that the line has been shifted to a more balanced position than it was in last year.

I have recently send money to my brother through paypal because i wanted to try if i can dispute the payment. If i try to dispute it then this appears:
"We're sorry, but this transaction cannot be disputed because it is not a purchase of goods or services. Please contact the recipient directly".

Because the bitcoin forum considers paypal transactions scam attempts.. What kind of question is this???
About the section, to be honest, i didn't know where i should post it..

You have to contact your bank and they will chargeback for you. The issue is that many people here could be using stolen paypal accounts or debit cards that will be reversed and marked as unauthorized transactions.

Chargeback from credit cards, scammers always find new ways to scam .

From my knowledge it is because Paypal is a refundable method of payment and Bitcoin is not. So if they send money first you would think it's finished and send BTC but they can reverse that payment and leave you with nothing. I don't know how easy it is though, but Paypal always side with the sender in this case.

Fair enough, finally an answer.  ;D

I give you the answer in the first reply but whatever.

Didn't want to offend you but you just said that there is a way to dispute. Later we found out how  ;)

I was got scammed today but i was sending paypal. Seller doesn't send bitcoin so i have opened dispute as i have not received digital item i was supposed to recieve. Hope i will get my money back. Have never tried their dispute feature before.

Paypal seem to be reversible see what will happen.

As per Paypal's TOS, digital items are NOT covered. Unless a credit card or hacking claims are filed.
This is very old news, don't people read TOS anymore?

Because people trade in paypal account the ID you need to make a verified paypal account can be fake. This gives scammers a lot of play ground to buy accounts do some little transactions and then try to scam someone saying they have a verified account (whom are mostly hacked)

Most people selling those accounts are hackers and they should be punished real hard. It's very low to sell stolen goods and information.

But yes this is the reason most people here wanting to use paypal (mainly newbie's and jr. members) are called scammers.

I am sure there are some real honest people too, but for me paypal is a no go when dealing on a forum.

This.

Paypal is ok in regards of their service and checks.
But if an account is hacked you will lose your money.
The bad thing is when sending money you can't see if the account is hacked because paypal needs to verify it..

I think now you got your reply regarding paypal considering it as scam. because their are lot of ways through which you can cheat anyone through paypal and apart from their their service charges and transaction charges are too high to use it.

Bitcoin transaction charges are low and very easy. and you dont have to give any identification. and it is not reversible. even if you send wrongly you can do nothing.

But from the above posts, they cannot charge back from the Paypal directly, they can only charge back through their bank?

Not considered as a scam attempt. Just people are worried who they accept Paypal from, it is a known reversible payment method, therefore unsecure for sellers. I would suggest only accepting or using people from trusted or if trusted. Even if amount are infinite.

i dunno they also a protection for the sellers, at least their policy said that, now i'm not using almost anymore paypal, because of the fee which is worse than charge back for me

but someone should investigate more on the protection for the buyers and seller about paypal, which is stronger

To avoiding PayPal scams is not hard. To start with many of these scam emails are already filtered to your spam folder. If for some reason one escapes through the email.All you have to do is login to your Paypal account. The address bar doesn’t say paypal.com so be sure not to enter your login info means confirm the webpage is a scam and they said they currently have no such promotion. So be careful about this to avoid to getting scam.

Yup this is legendary for eBay we all know.. classic scam.

Also i posted my email today i got late 2013 from Paypal..
They forbid all use of digital currency activity with their TOS.
When i google'd the email i got.. i found a guy here in 2012 who got the same email at this forum !

HOW ..

Are you guys still unaware that you are not allowed to do this (charge-back issue or not)

I think you all are simply ignoring the TOS ..no matter how many times you are TOLD.

EDIT:
By the way,
i had eBay internal network access when my Mom left her 2 inch thick manual on my table way back when she worked there.
When they hired her in BC, Canada she was the largest eBay seller in the west side of Canada and listed as a rep.
eBay / Paypal policy ?
I HAD the fucking manual in my god damn hands ROFL

If the open Barzza can have a similar system to protect the buyer and seller, I will use bitcoin in that market. I shall not use Ebay and paypal.

This week paypal have an opportunity to improve their procedures to handle properly and fairly sale of "digital or virtual goods and services".  Watch this space for news of whether or not they have got their act together yet.

I said that I'd update you with paypal news.
This week a scammy seller got money off my paypal when I bought a nonexistant bitcoin which he advertised online.
 (indicating a change of policy : instead of automatically accepting bitcoin buyer chargebacks, Paypal did the opposite and put the payment through).
A week later and several complaints and a rather helpful paypal employee had looked at it and decided that perhaps I hadn't received the bitcoin and that the seller looked suss.  No indication yet of them working out how to look up a disputed bitcoin transmission on blockchain.info so please do remind them of the public record of the blockchain if anyone else has paypal errors to sort out.

Family/Friend still can be reversed with claiming unauthorized use of account or something like that.

Agree with you friend PayPal is safe online payment system. I have used it from past years without facing any type of problem. Yes I think they provide special protection against fraud and if they found any suspicions then they want proper proof but mostly people treat them scam because PayPal won't allow them to do illegal activities.

It is true for most cases.But PayPal have too much restrictions and the verification processes are really headache for some ppl. But I can say if you follow their rules, you won't have any problem. They have very good service and custmer support.

if paypal provide an option before accepting the money, it may have been safer. lets say i got a money from you and i saw that you send it as a gift from a relative, then i can safely receive it. but if its send in exchange of goods/services, i may have the option to say no. unfortunately they don't offer such.

The big problem with PayPal in connection with Bitcoin is the following: Not PayPal itself is the problem, but the danger exists that it can be used by scammers. Bitcoin transactions can not be undone, but PayPal payments. If you accept PayPal for the exchange of Bitcoins, you must ensure that it is not a hacked PayPal account, that you deal with or that it is not an account of a scammer, whose bank account doesn't cover the purchasing amount.

PayPal allows chargebacks for every transaction whether it's for goods or gifts and people have succeeded in getting their money back and scamming. Users say that goods & services payment cannot be charged back if a user claims that the good was a digital one. However, PayPal is the weakest form of payment and hence it's considered a scam attempt.

I would agree but many Fake PayPal websites are an extension of fake emails, and are usually linked to within these emails. A fake PayPal website can look identical to the real PayPal, but when you try to log in, it will simply steal your username and password. Even if you have gone ahead and clicked a link in an email, not all is lost. Unless the website you reached contains malicious scripts, you can still escape the scam.

Made me remember one time when someone send me money by paypal as a donation for helping him (without me asking for money, he asked for my paypal address) then, after 2-3 days, he made a chargeback lol.

It was only about 5$...

I find it very odd...

Why and how are people using Paypal then? I mean if you can reverse any payment just by filling a complaint about wrongly used card, I can go directly buy a new HD tv no?

There should be other elements I'm missing I guess, otherwise Paypal isn't a reliable way of transferring money.

PayPal is afraid of Bitcoin and the blockchain technology. That's why PayPal always rules in favor of the buyer/scammer. Charge backs are a necessity sometimes. If you're dealing with a shady business it's best to use PayPal or a credit card. Bitcoin doesn't have charge back because of the many scammers out there. The more options there the better.

Makes sense.
It's always better to have to way of exchanging your value. One is fast and secured but not reversible, the other might be reversible.
It allows Paypal to have a true interest and to really answer a need of the consumers ^^

PayPal doesn't even allow some countries to send and receive funds. Does it mean PP is scared of those countries? I doubt your reason is valid but I do agree that PayPal aren't quite happy with bitcoins as they are competition for them.

Not true. PayPal doesn't allow any money exchanges and they limit account if found users dealing in digital currency / other payment processors like perfect money and so on. Their TOS are very strict and hence many users make such trades
without adding a note in the transaction to make it almost impossible for PayPal to track the transactions. Earlier they had issues with Liberty Reserve as well.

Basically Paypal blocks every competitor out. Which is a shame, since we have an open market.
In a way it's even sad, that they are so afraid of those virtual currency's

The other problem with PayPal is that they can decide their profits are down, and claim you were in breach of their terms, they then lock you account and seize your money. To get it back, you have to pay a fee. That's what they did to me, but fortunately I had moved the money out of the account, so they couldn't get it.

That sounds a bit suss for a multinational.  Did they really?

Because of Paypals ability to charge back or reverse the payment sent to the other party. In this forum regardless of your tenure and forum rank everyone can do such scam attempt and it's regardless of how much the amount was paid using Paypal.

Dude PayPal use to send a promotional emails, hacking credit card details and more complaints they have on world wide. Since they have high transaction charges and other things. They were good before but their reputation is like thread less kite.

Scammers done waste their time reversing THROUGH PAYPAL, they use their time wisely and reverse THROUGH THE BANK. Once the bank reverses the transaction, paypal honestly has no choice but to simply refund the money. Aside from this method, a lot of scammers are actually using hacked bank accounts. So if you are selling Bitcoin on paypal, most of the time you are actually receiving a payment NOT from the original paypal account holder. So when the reversal comes in, its actually usualy not even the scammer, its someone that realized their paypal account was hacked and made a purchase. Its very hard to tell in this circumstance but either way you are shit out of luck to be honest.

this is exactly right. Its much easier to just call your bank and they do it for
you. Then the scumbag hacker doesnt even need to explain himself or face
paypal or the person they are scamming.

Best to use a service like virwox if you want to buy or sell with paypal. You lose a bit in exchange but you will not be scammed. You should also be thankful for not having a banned account as Paypal if i remmeber correctly started banning account involving BTC due to the fact it's considered an ecurrency now and not digital goods.

The reason PayPal freezes accounts selling BitCoin is that PayPal has a blanket prohibition against using their service to operate a currency exchange.

There are a few articles out there on this. If you really have to I would find a trusted escrow and not one suggested by the person you are concerned about. Then as always do your research. To do something quickly will lead to a bad experience. If it's too good to be true, it probably is.