Bitcoin Forum

Hello ladies and gentleman's at request of Mod Loyce i will discuss this issue here

Rollin is a scam cause of their " fair " system, lets take a look:

You can check your server hash that will result in your server seed, and you can check (and define) your client seed, so far so good as all normal online dice casinos, however there is a miracle seed ( for the owners )  called " random seed ". According to their fair crap, all the math is correct, client seed + server seed + random seed, all is correct and it is! However how can you verify the fair of the roll if one of the seeds is given to you only after you roll, that magic scam seed (random seed) comes from the so so honest server, and serve to we..hmmm...humm...lets try figure it out what they say about the random seed:

From: https://rollin.io/fair

Ok...interesting but..where the random seed comes from, why it is there...lets keep looking:


wow wow!!! No wait, they just typed random_seed in there, no explanation where it comes and what it serve to, Lets keep reading more boring scam stuff to find from where " random seed " (scam seed) comes from:


Hmmmm nop....not here too, and we reach the end of their fair explanation. So, how it is fair if there is one seed that you can't control and you don't have previous knowledge, a seed that is given by the server at it will, their math: client seed + server seed + scam seed it will give you the right math , the right number, however is a so so magical and so so honest seed that you can only know it after you finish the roll.

Bottom of line is , you have the client seed and server hash to verify your roll , but they enter this sweet seed that pops up from no where, so server (they) can manipulate the output roll. In real life comparison is: a guy tells you if you roll a sum of 2 you win ,and he give you 3 dices to roll... if you know what i mean ;)

You just can't introduce a seed after the roll, there is no way to verify if it is fair, and probably is not.

Rollin is made by some scammer with afraid of don't get rich.

Tank you for your time, take care! Be safe from scams.

You should move this to scam accusations.

interesting.... hmmm...oh well, i have 3 accounts on positive profit there..so i really cant complain.. ;)

hmmm..but then again..all gambling sites are designed as to generate profit for the owners at the gamblers expense,..so.. guys, if you dont want to lose your money, just dont gamble in gambling sites..its not a good way to profit really..only few people really do..because for you to get big profit from gambling, someone or some people has to lose big time...so thats it... unless your just doing it for fun...gambling is not advisable.. 8)

Sir, i'am questioning about the fair system and i didn't read nothing about it from you, if you can explain me where the random seed comes from i appreciate ;) And yes if all accounts were in loss that would be very lame and shocking.

Regards

yup, why have an unverifyable seed?
Scam confirmed

haha!! sorry but im pretty dumb..i have no clue about those things...sorry cant help you with that "random seed" thingy....i think only the admins of the site has the full knowledge about the full process... and only they can clearly explain where that thingy came from...so my best advice is to contact support on the site..one of the admins does the reply for such support request..you can ask them there..replies usually takes a day or two...but not longer, or better yet.. you can invite them to discuss it here on this thread..for only they can accurately answer your queries, so i hope you do so.

and i really dont give a rats ass about such things...i only gamble for fun...winning is just a side prize :P

Maybe they just misworded that statement - do you have any proof that it's not a randomly generated seed... created by the client? As it should be?

One simple way to prove - is there a place where you can input your own client seed?

Fair enough sir, but you should in figurative way of speaking , know where the bus goes before you enter in it. I don't say you can't have profit in rollin.io i just say that " the  system " can manipulate the output. Any way for sure other users that are more familiarized with the verification system, will have their opinion about this unverifiable seed. Have a good night/ evening / day.

regards

As per My point Of View i don't think they are scam , i always win there :P

Hello sir,

If you place a bet in the site in question , you can check your client seed and server hash before you roll , what is ok , but after you roll if you check your bets, you will see a extra seed, that they use to manipulate the output according to their algorithm, what is in question here, is not what they state in their fair page, but what happen in reality.

Regards

Hello sir,

Using your technical speech, i have loved womans that lied to me, too. I'm talking about the verification system, if you have anything to say about that i would be glad to hear.

Regards

hohoho..oh well, i hope you get one of the admins to discuss it here, or at the least someone to speak in behalf of the site management.. because the only way to resolve (prove/clear) this scam accusation is if both parties (both the accuser and the accused) can openly discuss such matters in a public forum..it would be hard to resolve this issue otherwise and this scam accusation will be pretty much pointless...so please contact them as soon as possible and request that they answer your queries on this thread..good luck and have a good one ;)

 :o its weird did you try to contact the support?

Hello sir,

I didn't cause i don't need support, this is not a scam accusation, this is a scam fact, if you are accustomed with other gambling sites you must know that can't exist hidden seeds, if there is, means that site manipulate the output.

Regards

ahhh..i would like to point out that this is still just a scam accusation..not a scam "fact" as you stated ...as you are still asking for explanations and proofs.. this will only become a scam fact if the accused fails to disprove your accusations..until such time that the accused states their defense or explanation against your accusations and it fails to satisfy logical sense..it will remain simply as a scam "accusation"... :D

haahahhaha!! sorry im bored... :P

Sorry sir , i re-read my post to make sure and i didn't ask for proofs and explanations, i point it out the fact of a third seed is being used after the roll to manipulate the output.

Regards

rollin is the best dice site and fair ...\o\o\o\O/o/o/o/

Hello sir,

As you must know a casino is not a monopoly game for fun or any other kind of game for fun, if you don't have any kind of knowledge to support why is fair, please abstain from support it, since money don't grow from trees and who gamble need to make sure that the casino where they are in is fair, which as you can see in rollin case, a third seed that is only  showed after you roll represent the possibility of the casino manipulate the output according to some algorithm, you should not encourage gamblers.

Regards

In advance you get "server_hash" which is a combination of "server_seed + random_seed".

The result is generated by the server_seed and the client_seed (latter is generated in the browser.) You can check that the server_seed was not changed after making the bet, by verifying the hash in combination with the random_seed. They don't know your client_seed in advance so they cannot calculate the end result before you bet. This makes Rollin provably fair. There is no way for Rollin to cheat without you noticing (if you verify the hash.)




Why not just use server_seed without random_seed? I am guessing it is like an extra protection against brute-forcing the server_seed. Originally that comes from systems that don't give a server_seed but a server_roll_number (which would be easily brute-forced without extra random_seed.) But since their server_seed is long enough, I am pretty sure they could remove the random_seed indeed. However, currently the site is just as well provably fair.

Ideally they would use the "nonce-method" too, because in theory for perfect provably-fair-usage, currently you should copy hash, change client_seed, verify, etc after each bet. But technically their implementation is fine for a "per roll" implementation (correctly generates random client_seed in browser, etc.)



I BTW made a verifier for Rollin here: https://dicesites.com/rollin/verifier and an article about provably fair for those who want to learn the basics here: https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

thank you! ;D

That is a nice explanation. :)

Thanks to NLNico to make clear this situation about rollin and i am also satisfied with this explanation so after this no doubt it 100% provably fair.

I think OP is missing is this:

Hello sir,

Very well, after read, you are right and i agree with you, however, let me point it out that since long before the cryptographic hash collisions always exist, sha256 its not exception, making a fast search you can find articles like this about that matter:

http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/24732/probability-of-sha256-collisions-for-certain-amount-of-hashed-values

I don't see why the need of the random seed be in their hands until the end of the roll, because with an hash collision the hash can be that one that they show or some other as we can read in the article above . I don't see the need of it and i find it shady stuff (and since when you send the bet request they get your client seed, and then server reply with what ever the output it is, they can do what ever they want to the random seed), however thanks for at last some technical explanation. I'm convinced that if they try  to add one extra lets call it " protection " like the random seed is cause they are accustomed to do monkey business and that could be used for protection of the casino but as well for user prejudice.

Regards 

Hello sir

I'm sorry for disagree but NLNico just proved no doubt that it 100% do his homework and know what writes about what writes when he writes, rollin still shady until one seed that can be more than one be in their hands until the end of the roll, and even, why they bordered to create that extra seed, can be for good, can be for evil.

Regards

Hash collisions exist, of course, because the number of characters in a hash is limited. But finding a collision is near impossible. And your argument is that Rollin (and every other dice site, because your argument holds to the same degree for any other provably fair system) generates another seed with the same hash in a second? (not possible in millions of years I think)

Why don't they just brute-force all the bitcoin private keys instead?
Edit: er.. after they mine all the bitcoins

Why just Rollin?

By your logic, Primedice, BitDice, BetKing just about every dice site with a provably fair system can find another seed with the same hash lol.
And there can be no provably fair system.

Hello sir

Because those sites that you just mentioned use a clear fair system of client seed that only client know and server hash that client know it too before the roll, it don't pop up from no where a third seed that can be for security but can be for monkey business as well.

Regards

Every site I know uses a slightly different method of provably fair system.

For Rollin, the server seed and a random seed is used to get the server hash.
Both the server seed and random seed is not shown to the player. (you can see it as one)
The hash is shown to the player.

Once the roll is made, both server seed and random seed is shown to the player, who can hash it see that they are the same.

You can see that both the server seed and random seed can be taken as a single unknown string for which the hash is disclosed before the roll, which is exactly the same provably fair mechanism most off-chain dice sites use.

So your issue is that you don't understand how the server seed is generated or that there's and extra layer of protection against brute forcing the hash? Either way this topic should be closed since it's obvious that the scheme stands and it is provably fair.

Yes sir, i get that from the beginning, my point is that you don't know the random seed even knowing the server hash, the server seed and the suppose random seed, since there is a possibility of hash colliding, and change seeds changing output as well, and as i could find out this morning they use powerful amazon servers... I find the verify system shady, obscure, not ethical. Thas why the topic of the post is rollin is a scam !/? and not rollin is a scam!!! anyway i will not dare to put my money in their funny new creative fair system.

regards

NLNico (who knows much more about this than I do) and ndnhc have explained already how hashes work. The server hash includes the random seed, and you can not adjust the random seed at will while keeping the same server hash.
That being said, this scam accusation is what it is: an accusation, and nothing more than that.

Nice twist BTW, I did not tell you to open a spam-accusation-topic, I told you the hashes were discussed in the existing topic here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687571.msg12137676#msg12137676

Now the facts
Mod Loyce here. Before I became moderator at rollin.io, one Mod (asd) lost his Mod-status due to his rage issues. This was about half a year ago. Since then he's been spamming rollin's Chatter Box. He uses his own internet provider with dynamic IP addresses, anonymous proxies, and VPNs to do so. Rollin Admin has been more than kind to him, much more than he deserves in my opinion, and countless users and Mods have tried to talk to him. He has money problems, drinking problems, gambling problems, drugs problems, and so on. He blames everybody except himself, especially Admin, and keeps saying he wants his money back. Once he has money, he gambles until he loses it again. Then the rage starts. This spam in chat goes on for days in a row, as it's very easy to make a new account on rollin. Sometimes it stopped, for instance when he had a temporary job, but he always comes back.

I'm saying this in public now, as it explains why this person wants to accuse rollin falsely. I'm not so worried about his privacy, as "asd" does not tie him to any real life connection. Everybody who has ever used rollin's Chatter Box knows who I'm talking about though.

asd: get help!

Hello sir,

I appreciate that this thread helped you to tell me the story of your life, i hope the Chatter Box live long and healthy, i hope the "asd" stay away from drugs and alcohol ( don't do that kids, keep yourselves in school ). However the random seed is shady and manipulatable. And thank you for banning me from the Chatter Box so i was motivated to open the thread here where more brilliant minds can expose those ideas openly, and with more knowledge about the verification systems around the place. I'm more in-lighted, but not convinced.

Regards

They cannot just change the random_seed, because the SHA-256 server_seed_hash that you got before the game would be different. The probability of them changing the random_seed to a new one with the same hash (hash collision) is practically impossible. Also, that random_seed is not even used for the result calculation, so there is no point in changing that lol? If they change the random_seed, the result will be still the same (and the hash will be different = error on verifying.)

Only changing the server_seed would give a different result, but again, they cannot change that either without changing the hash (and therefor cheating in such way would be detectable if the user takes the time to verify the hash - that's exactly what provably fair is about.)

If it would be possible to change the server_seed to something else (while keeping the same hash), then all provably fair methods on all sites would be broken. Actually I am pretty sure at that point some parts of bitcoin and the internet will be broken too, so yeh..







Still, I don't really see any point of using that extra random_seed since the server_seed itself is already too difficult to brute force anyway. Like I said, I expect it's from being "overprotective" when building their implementation and looking at implementations that used server_roll instead of server_seed at that time. But it is not shady and there site is equally provably fair with or without that random seed.

Fair enough sir, i understand, glad to read you, i feel more in-lighted now. Thanks for the explanation.

Regards

is it possible to take same hash after changing both server seed and random seed?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: the required computation power exceeds all imagination. So no.

Did you know that ALL bitcoin private keys can be found on this website? http://directory.io/ !
Just pick the right page, and you'll find wallets containing thousands of bitcoins. There are only 904625697166532776746648320380374280100293470930272690489102837043110636675 pages so you can imagine it's quite hard to find the right page... It's the same with hashes: creating a hash out of a seed is easy. Creating a seed that fits that specific hash is virtually impossible. Which is the whole purpose of using a hash.

I see morons post things like "well my account is pisitive" it want cheat a 2 cent bet. provably fair = provably scam, just that simple.

Probably fair is here to proof that the game is fair and no one scan scam/cheat - not the player nor the house. It depends on the luck, not everyone has the luck to make profit from gambling sites. There is always a lower with every winner and vice versa.
No idea what you are trying to say with "it want cheat a 2 cent bet". So you say the player is scamming the house?

You think they are in buisness because their websites are "fair" your joking right? Here is a defenition of provably fair " algorithm which can be analyzed and verified for fairness on the part of the service operator." thats right, the number is not generated until you place a bid, only then is the seed "randomly" generated, you dont see a problem with that? Its no different then calling head or tails on a coin flip, right after it was flipped already, and you can visually see the coin.

And if you had any doubt, let me put it to you this way, today 1/12/2016 the admin appeared in the chat room of rollin.io and gave an explanation why the faucet was decreased and the timer was extended. Reason? Price increase, but failed to mention why the maximum bet increased from 5.8 BTC to 6.8 BTC ironic? 😐

Don't blame the site for not understanding how provably fair works.

If you can't handle loss, don't gamble the money! Talk about a one-issue-bitcointalk-account...

Oh, you are one of the moderator clowns from rollin, im sure you have nothing but peachy things to say about your little scammy site.

"Talk about a one-issue-bitcointalk-account..." i didn't understand what you were referring to at first, and no, I DID NOT START THIS THREAD, and i belive i have clarified that incident already previously.  This only show's how immature you are by even trying to imply that i waste my time by starting silly and useless threads on online forums.

You sure have to work on your english mate, because your definition of "immature" is just wrong. Talk abut starting the same argument when the answers are in the previous page.

I begg to differ, it was childish to bring up an old issue that was previously clarified some time ago. In any case, they throwing around all rhis technical mumbo jumbo jargon, but the fact remains, that the operator can see your bid, and yet hes the one that generating "random" and "encrypted" seed there after. You dont see anything strange with that? That the "random" seed is generated only after you place a bid, while he knows your exact bid and the ammount!

That is wrong. The random seed is generated before you place your bet. It is part of the hash that you get in advance. There is no way for Rollin to modify this seed without you noticing (if you verify your bets.)

No its not, the seed is not generated until the bet is placed. You people scammed and stole millions.

The random seed is not even used in the roll result.

How about you actually do some reading before making these useless idiotic posts?

tl;dr you are a potato

In case you didn't get the hint, I was mocking your stupidity and ignorance even when all the evidence and proofs are presented

Haha, it dosent matter what you think or post, bitcointalk will delete your comments if it conflicts with their personal point of view.

Rollin.io is not a scam they are one of the larger bitcoin dice sites I have never had a problem with them, there faucet system is really good too the reward increases the more you roll.

We can argue about this till the sun explodes, fact remains its rigged. And rollin isnt the only one. The site/s are operated by computer engineer/s and web developer/s, and not actual gamblers, loan shark or bookies. Its true, i can not explain how they are exactly manipulating, my acknowledge is limited in this space.

Maybe you shouldn't be making these accusations if you don't know how bitcoin casinos, and their seeds work. NLNico disproved this scam theory on the first page of this thread.

Actually, it proves nothing ;) there is a way to minipulate the outcome. It maybe true that the seed is randomly generated, but its generated by the operator. While he mught not actually program the seed for the outcome directly, he can still minipulate it in othwer ways. "You can check that the server_seed was not changed after making the bet" but not before ;)

this website confirmed scam?

I try register account and never found sign up link anywhere

dead?

As soon as you visit the website an account is created for you. It has a random username that you can change, and you can also set a password for your account. There's no need on the website for a sign up link so they didn't include one.

It's a scam, so dont be stupid by depositing your money there. I'm beeing constantly asked "prove" it, the only way to "prove" it in, you would need
1. a group of professional and experienced web designers/developers and programmers (which ironically, the operators of all these gambling sites just happen to be ;)
2. Full administrative acess to the site
For the reasons listed above, it can not be other wise proven in technical terms, at least not by me.

Is this the algorithm code used to generate the seed?
// Create a length n array to store the state of the generator
 int[0..n-1] MT
 int index := n+1
 const int lower_mask = (1 << r) - 1 // That is, the binary number of r 1's
 const int upper_mask = lowest w bits of (not lower_mask)
 
 // Initialize the generator from a seed
 function seed_mt(int seed) {
Or this?

     index := n
     MT[0] := seed
     for i from 1 to (n - 1) { // loop over each element
         MT := lowest w bits of (f * (MT[i-1] xor (MT[i-1] >> (w-2))) + i)
     }
 }
 
 // Extract a tempered value based on MT[index]
 // calling twist() every n numbers
 function extract_number() {
     if index >= n {
         if index > n {
           error "Generator was never seeded"
           // Alternatively, seed with constant value; 5489 is used in reference C code[45]
         }
         twist()
     }
 
     int y := MT[index]
     y := y xor ((y >> u) and d)
     y := y xor ((y << s) and b)
     y := y xor ((y << t) and c)
     y := y xor (y >> l)
 
     index := index + 1
     return lowest w bits of (y)
 }
 
 // Generate the next n values from the series x_i
 function twist() {
     for i from 0 to (n-1) {
         int x := (MT and upper_mask)
                   + (MT[(i+1) mod n] and lower_mask)
         int xA := x >> 1
         if (x mod 2) != 0 { // lowest bit of x is 1
             xA := xA xor a
         }
         MT := MT[(i + m) mod n] xor xA
     }
     index := 0
 }

Or this?
def _int32(x):
    # Get the 32 least significant bits.
    return int(0xFFFFFFFF & x)

class MT19937:

    def __init__(self, seed):
        # Initialize the index to 0
        self.index = 624
        self.mt =

• * 624

        self.mt[0] = seed  # Initialize the initial state to the seed
        for i in range(1, 624):
            self.mt = _int32(
                1812433253 * (self.mt[i - 1] ^ self.mt[i - 1] >> 30) + i)

    def extract_number(self):
        if self.index >= 624:
            self.twist()

        y = self.mt[self.index]

        # Right shift by 11 bits
        y = y ^ y >> 11
        # Shift y left by 7 and take the bitwise and of 2636928640
        y = y ^ y << 7 & 2636928640
        # Shift y left by 15 and take the bitwise and of y and 4022730752
        y = y ^ y << 15 & 4022730752
        # Right shift by 18 bits
        y = y ^ y >> 18

        self.index = self.index + 1

        return _int32(y)

    def twist(self):
        for i in range(0, 624):
            # Get the most significant bit and add it to the less significant
            # bits of the next number
            y = _int32((self.mt & 0x80000000) +
                       (self.mt[(i + 1) % 624] & 0x7fffffff))
            self.mt = self.mt[(i + 397) % 624] ^ y >> 1

            if y % 2 != 0:
                self.mt = self.mt ^ 0x9908b0df
        self.index = 0

I would hope not... if they use that Mersenne Twister generator, it's actually the players who can take advantage of this weak random generator and cheat the site. It's in a dice site's best interest to generate cryptographically secure random seeds.



At this point I am not sure if you are trolling or just slow in understanding. But if you are not trolling, you should really read a bit more about provably fair (https://dicesites.com/provably-fair and actually just the posts in this thread.) But I guess you are just trolling since you do no effort in trying to understand the provably fair concept and just keep saying pretty dumb things.

The only troll here is you clown.
This only proves my point you dont know what your talking about, apperently YOU NEVER even visted the site, yet you bashing with this "provably fair" garbage.
Both rollin and fortunejack use "mersenne twister" well apparently you know something they dont.......
Correct me if im wrong, but the seed is generated "cryptographically" by using an algorithm which is set by the operator and NOT the player.

Rollin knows the outcome here is your proof the mercenne twister, it was cracked years ago..
https://jazzy.id.au/2010/09/22/cracking_random_number_generators_part_3.html

Rollin.io is a scam, the admin can control the number you roll, so many people have said about that, even with proof shown. Avoid the site at all cost

Rollin isn't the only one, the seed was cracked long time ago.

I'm still going with the fact that you are a potato and as a potato you shouldn't be able to think or move at all. This whole universe is a hoax /sarcasm

Rollin.io is a rigged site, they just got hack by a player and that player won 35 Bitcoins with a 100% win chance

If a player can get access to that server and manipulate the result for a 100% win chance

The admins of Rollin.io have access to the server too and can always manipulate the number that you roll, and always make sure you lose when your bet amount gets bigger. The admins also can manipulate the result that is 100% in favor of them.

I have verify that player roll with 100% win chance and Rollin.io provably fair system show me that the bet is VERIFIED.

Rollin.io is a rigged and scam site, their provably fair system is fake and rigged

And you have to rub salt in the wound right?
How can you say they got access to the server? If I make a roll, does the server calculating my bet mean I have gained access to it?
More bunch of shilling nonsense again.
The "verified" shows that the number was indeed calculated from the hash, the manipulation of win chance has nothing to do with that
I'm still going with the "fact" that you are a potato, hence the universe can't exist and we are all simulations.

Complete and total fucking scam..... My regred is omly not visually recording some rolls, but i do have screen shots...will gladly post them......FUCKING SCAM!

You're saying you'll finally provide some evidence?
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000464133/polls_orly_3827_393044_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

Please do keep posting you'r remarks, you seem to think this is some sort of a funny game. Mark my words, i will hold you and everyone associated accountable.

here you go troll...this is from earlier today..were going to start here...
http://postimg.org/image/5bqnme7w1/
my only regret is not recording it live....there would have been no doubt, the photo will do no justice.

What doesnit proof except for loosing all your btc?

So, to sum it up: They are scam, because you lost a low multiplier all-in bet?

Maybe he feel scam by using chance 92% with max bet and lose it ;D

They were all "max" bets, with that said, this is from last night, let me know if you can spot waldo.
http://postimg.org/image/se2he0fc9/full/
let me know if your little troll eyes can see it.
The last pic does not do justice with out the actual live recording, it was pretty fucking obvious.

1. I made the article I referred you to many times already: https://dicesites.com/provably-fair unfortunately it doesn't look like you took the 5 minutes to read it. I also made a provably fair verifier for Rollin: https://dicesites.com/rollin/verifier which shows that I certainly did look at their provably fair implementation. Probably a lot better than you did.
2. Actually I looked at their implementation so properly, that I "discovered" a potential issue in their implementation, see my post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687571.msg12122724#msg12122724 (many months ago.) They very quickly replied and fixed the issue. After they fixed that, I am 100% confident that their implementation is really provably fair - if you, as the player, take the effort to verify the bets.

Well.. I made a verifier for it, so I know very well that they use the Mersenne Twister generator. However, your question was:
The answer is: no, probably not. Because if they do generate the serverseed with that "random" generator, then YOU as the player can hack/cheat them by "cracking the seed".

The clientseed is generated in the browser with a cryptographically-secure random generator. If you take the time to actually go through the Javascript source, you can figure this out yourself. The clientseed is the relevant part here. If they can "crack the clientseed", then they indeed could cheat in theory. But since this isn't the case, they cannot cheat. You can check this yourself in the Javascript source. If you don't have the knowledge to do that and you still don't trust it, you can change the clientseed yourself every time before you make a bet. This way you can be 100% sure that you cannot be cheated. If you read my article: https://dicesites.com/provably-fair and try to understand the provably fair mechanism, you can understand why.




So when is that Mersenne Twister generator used? Well they use the seeds (server and client seeds) as "input seed" for the Mersenne Twister generator and get the result from that. Since the "input seed" is generated in a cryptographically-secure way, there is no way that the site or you can cheat.





No. What would make it obvious, is if you can show the provably fair calculations and show that you calculate a different result than them.






Ps, I helped many users with verifying their bet results on a lot of different sites. If anyone ever has a issue with verifying and thinks he might be cheated, you can definitely PM me. I don't care if it is a big or small site, if there really is a issue, I will be happy to check that and vouch for proof etc. But in your situation, it looks like you don't want to take the time to even understand the provably fair mechanism.

How much do you get to lie through your teeth? Like i said, the entire "fair system" is total bull shit.

NLN is as credible as they come.
But at this point, you don't want to see that or listen to reason anymore, do you?

All that hatred for losing a < $0.70 $1.00 bet ? As far as the sore loser clan goes, you take the pie mate. Congrats.

Here you go, as Ghost Face Kill said, "again and again"
http://postimg.org/image/qc0un6vet/full/
Thats from today, this site never never fails to amaze me.

you ignorant little prick, do you think it's really about a fucking dollar? it's about principle, some thing you would know nothing about, since you have none. It's about the fact that "provably fair" is a total scam, with that said, it's about 17 BTC that they stole from me you ignorant little fuck.

Doesn't matter about how many coins/money it is.

Most probably, he has more principles than you.

Its about a principle you don't understand, even when users like NLN offer you to explain it through and through, again and again.

Or it's about your little mud fight against rollin, because you can't cope up with gambling.

If you're going to reiterate another party, quote it, other wise it's considered "plagiarism". This is what considered as "irony", "prinziples" absolutely, i have no "prinziples" I am a man of "principles", try again clown. you asked for prove, i gave it to you, VISUALLY.

Oh, we're starting with the insults?! Great.
Yet, no one besides you understands what exactly the proof you brought forward is supposed to highlight.

Look at the fucking numbers vs odd bets. your arguing with me with out even looking at the screen shoots. here is another one.
http://postimg.org/image/q060uzvml/full/
this is from 5 minutes ago. HINT, LOOK AT THE ODDS BET (PREDICTION), ESPECIALLY THE LAST ONE --ON ALL IN---.... I GUESS YOU CAN CALL ME "MR.COINCIDENCE"

And yet you keep coming back :P Don't blame the host for your gambling addiction.

He's must think 88% bets can't lose. Just like he must think Martingale has a higher chance of doubling than going all-in at once.

Go and look at the screen shoot, at least the last one and reading the instructions that i left, like i said, call me "Mr.Coincidence" the screen shot is from 15 minutes ago. look at the prediction, that was "max" bid.....dont play dumb honestly its all there

Didn't notice it yet? here is a clue..... it just so happen to re roll a -98- on a 92% win on a max bid, just like my previous 88% win on 88 on all max, when it just, so happen to roll, a WHAT? A 88! HOLY COW! NO its all "random" and "fair" you wanted prove, i gave it to you.

Here is a fresh one for you.....actually look at screen shot before you run you're mouth
http://postimg.org/image/n8ur1xuo5/full/
this is what they call, truth is stranger then fiction...just way too many coincidence. you wanted prof, there is it is.

Is it like that losing a dice roll with all-in option makes someone scammer.The screenshot shows nothing more than that.You are not the only one to call it scammer and yet also there are rollin fans more than haters watchout your *mouth*.I too lost 0.2 bitcoins there but I never accused for my loss due to my gambling addiction.

People need to stop accusing casino sites for their *gambling addiction* and *absence of self-control*.

Or maybe putting this up on help or FAQ section may work. ;D

lol you haven't even bother looking at the other screen shoots i posted, did you? no you did'nt, you came in here and looked at the last post, and went from there. irritating.
PS: websites like Primedice Rollin.io ex..ext... are not by any mean, shape or form are "casino"s....google definition of a "casino" first please. Thanks.

Yeah I didnt read your USELESS posts at first.Now am going to read those and will come back replying.Please check below


So you mean first,number is generated and then seeds WOW!!Never knew such fool will come out when he loses because of his gambling addiction

:-So what is the point of showing seeds generated.Even though they are working fair if they roll up first as they still don't know what will be your next bid.
  But system works like generation of seed =>hashing server seeds and showing it to user=>calculation of roll=>then showing the verified result.

So nothing Scammy in it


Rollin is growing so increasing of maximum bet isn't ironic


-Couple of Useless posts that i don't want to quote up-


Wow thats it!! then why are you still giving us maybe it helps you to crack the outcome. ;D

oh sorry you are still losing knowing the method to crack the outcome
http://postimg.org/image/5bqnme7w1

He is saying scam because he loses at win chacne of 70-90% win chance(as I understood checking up his screenshots).Well my dear noob friend, a fair site doesn't guarantees you that playing at >70 or whatever win chance will not give you outcome opposite to it.Remember dice sites roll 0-100


Yeah I looked all your posts and many posts were useless. ::)

You have problem with the thing that "Rollin generates random seed after roll".Isn't it?

So please read this carefully:-

Go to :- https://rollin.io/fair

It says

" Before the player rolls, we generate a random string of characters on the server used as the "server seed". A hash of the server seed is shown to the player (to prove we can’t change the server seed). We create the server hash by combining the server seed and random seed together.

server_hash = @crypto.SHA256 server_seed + random_seed "

So the server hash is combined with the help of random seed and server seed.

Server_Seed hash is shown to you before the roll in Provably fair section.

So random seed is generated before the roll.

How can you still say this is not rigged....look at the screen shot for ones. look at the prediction from start to end and max all in.
http://postimg.org/image/gk2l3dmld/full/
just fucking look for ones before you respond with some technical b.s.
and now look at the very next number after MAX ALL IN BET
http://postimg.org/image/qmqf4p64d/full/
YOUR JOKING RIGHT???? STILL THINK ITS FAIR?
The seed is controlled.

Throw a dice. If it hits 6 three times in a row, call it rigged. Keep throwing the dice until you reach this hellish number!

How about you take shogun's dick out of your mouth, you cheap $2 Cambodian whore. First of all, this is not dice, secondly, i already proved that the server generates a hash by bypassing the client seed, I POSTED THE ROLLS AND SCREEN SHOTS IN THE CHAT ROOM, I WAS TOLD "WE WILL LOOK IN TO THIS" yet ironically i was banned for 30 days. LOL????  :)

I think personal that all Dice websites are hard to play on. You win maybe few times some BTC but after all you will lose more then you win.

Yep, the host always wins. That's why I avoid playing on those websits.
You win sometimes, but you lose much more than you win and end up leaving with less than you had before.

Not really as you said up here.Dice sites are just made out to gamble and yet they show up every bets fair.There is not a black hand behind it to make it favourable to casino owner,but its us who need to understand the fact that gambling is not profitable in long term and thats why we lose up thinking up that next bet "I will win it for sure".

I wont say always, the attraction is that you can get ahead fast but every gambling site have a known site or house advantage to it so they know for sure they will win sooner or later.  Thats how they make a profit, roll a dice 1000 times and they will almost certainly make money from running the place.   So literally the maths will say its a biased outcome but you take a chance and maybe you can come out ahead in the shorter term.     I prefer to stick to poker, pure chance leads me back to my studies of statistics

Site is closed for 3 days now. They ran away with cash

That's odd i can't open the sit either. Altough I have a feeling they will come back. Been playing there for quite some time now and they are on my trusted list.

i'm the one that's been breaking the rollin.io site here recently... it's a den of thieves... and if you accuse them of cheating... they will just gaslight you...

they have the ability to weight the dice... and in the end you will lose.... unless you join their little "marketplace" (it goes down in the chat and dm) ... It's not a place for gamblers to win... It's a place for them to take advantage of gamblers... they make suddle changes to the site to take advantage of "human error" ... and if you do win, and withdraw even less than what is the equivalent of $20 usd... they will shut the site down and make up a bunch of lies regarding why they took it down... It's not fair... They say it's "provably fair" ...but that just means you can verify your bets... It does not mean they don't have the ability to "weight the dice" so to say.... at any time, they keep around 200 nodes online that can be controlled by the site mods on whether to bet "with the house" or "against the house" ... whatever odds you choose to play on their site... they will use their "marketplace" to multiply those odds by 1 in 2xx .....you're not going to win unless they let you...and they will only let you for so long to get you hooked, and then your money will start flowing the other direction...

You have an odd style of writing, I recall that from somewhere.

tl;dr: All dice sites cheat.
Because you don't understand provably fair calculations.

more gaslighting bs from site admin or mods.... i don't know who wrote this... but it's crazy you would make the assumption that I am that person because we use dots in between sentences... stfu