Bitcoin Forum

I sold £200 of bitcoins to - https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/cooperjoe1/ - by instant bank transfer and they paid me with stolen details.  Now my bank account is frozen and now my Christmas money has not been paid in.

This is the sort of reason I would only use localbitcoins.com to meet up with someone locally and exchange physical currency for bitcoin.  Accepting reversible payment systems (such as paypal, credit card, bank transfer, etc) over a long distance with an anonymous person and sending them a non-reversible payment such as bitcoin or mailed cash is a good way to find scammers who will take your money.

bitcoins biggest problem is the problems that come up when dealing with the hacked to shit fiat system.

The bank (HSBC) said they may be closing my account and said I should have had a business account, even tho I told them it was only a hobby  ???

wow!

do you do alot of these instant bank transfer for bitcoin?

kinda crazy how you are a the victim of fraud, and they want to punish you for that.

This.

But really, you should always be aware of fraud. :(

I think it is safe to use bank transfers, if you deal with reputable members. For new members some kind of advanced confirmation should be required.

However I don't have idea what it could be. If a hacker gains access to a bank account, even if you send a confirmation payment, the hacker can fake it.

using localbitcoins.. to not do a face-to-face meet???
you might aswell of just used the bitcoin OTC..

i would only use localbitcoins for face to face cash in hand for bitcoins sent via smartphone, spending atleast 10 minutes (one confirm) to have a little chit chat and develop a business relationship, as you never know when you may want to meet up again. ofcourse meet in a public place and if you see someone with a baseball bat, don't believe he just came from a ball game, and run! ;D

I'm glad I'm not the only one who suffers from this crippling fear :D

Meet in the lobby of the local police station? Or a local bank?

i lol'd

I also lol'd.

 ;D

Why not?

I offered the bank manager the phone number thief's used and he just said we are not the police.  Yet he still wants me to come in to the bank on Christmas eve with proof I was selling bitcoins for the £200.  I've printed-off the messages between me and the thief on localbitcoins and wrote down there mobile number they used on the print-off's. I've not been paid my Christmas money now my account is frozen and I may not be able to get use of the account until after Christmas or ever again.  So its Christmas and I have no bank account and I can't get paid  ??? ???

Well, I lol'd because it's just a strange mental image.  A bank wouldn't be the worst idea, but at a police station they might think there's a drug deal goin' down or something.

pubs/bars/coffee houses are more likely spots to meet.. the main point is use localbitcoins for face to face, and bitcoin OTC for non face to face (more chance of fraud transactions) as they atleast have a reputation system to weed out the majority of scammers.

and if a non face to face transaction is requested and refusal to use bitcoin OTC's reputation checker happens.. then don't do the transaction.

its common sense that if they dont want to meet, although they supposedly live in your area to have found you and they dont want to be background checked for trust then your just asking for trouble by continuing the transaction.

LOL, can you imagine dealers of illegal drugs using local police stations for their handoffs for "safety".   ;D
I'd love to see the news story on that one when they eventually get caught.

A one time exchange at a bank would probably go unnoticed.  If you started setting up shop in the bank lobby with people coming to you all day long (walking over from their bank teller where they just withdrew their cash to get bitcoins from you?) you'd probably run into an issue.

The best option is to choose locations that have both:
Higher value targets, and pre-existing security/defense of the public.

Banks fit this criteria, any other suggestions?

Perhaps just outside the security line at a commercial airport?

or

Inside a casino?

I can swear that I have actually read a few news stories in the past where people have tried to do drug sales right in front of/near/inside police stations.

I imagine if you setup shop anywhere other than your own residence and sat there all day long that would be an issue :D

For some reason I can't really imagine airports working.  People there are ultra-paranoid and on the look out for anything suspicious.  Casinos I think are busy enough places that, as long as you aren't looking to shifty, you'd probably be ok.

I also think that anywhere you'd have to pass through a "front gate" first might be nice.  I doubt a zoo would let someone just stroll through with a big baseball bat :D

I may be wrong, but I suspect that my local coffee shop wouldn't mind.  They'd probably appreciate the added foot-traffic that could generate additional sales.

Of course the local coffee shop presents neither higher value targets, nor exceptional security.

I have been doing lots of localbitcoins deals, cash face-to-face. And not a single gangster, only nerds like me.

But still, always the first question when someone hears about the idea of localbitcoins is "have you met any motorcycle-gang members" or something similar.

I'm pretty sure that when I meet the first gangster on localbitcoins.com, bitcoin is already mainstream and used by the average Joe.

Inside the casino? I wouldn't recommend that.

Why?

There's a small but not negligible risk the casino in question has a Satoshi Dice implement and you're then screwed?

Well, a casino runs a business that is heavily regulated.  As such they are very sensitive to anything that might be occurring on their property.
They might see your cash transfer and think it could be related to loan sharking or maybe for some other activity they would rather not be a part of nor privy to being a witness.

If you've piqued their curiosity (and nowhere are you monitored more closely than when inside a casino), you then get a nice escort to a private office where you will be asked for the full, complete details about exactly just what is going on.  For one, if I am trading with you, I might prefer that you not disclose to a third party (casino management) any information about our trade or what you might know about me.  

And then you will be asked, in a polite but firm manner, to never again conduct your exchange business on their property.

The inside of banks, casinos, and police stations are probably not your best places to conduct a trade.  Most other businesses open to the public probably wouldn't care as much.

[Edit: Here's a useful post on personal security and other concerns while conducting a face-to-face trade.

 - http://shadowlife.cc/2012/11/secure-and-professional-bitcoin-otc-exchanges/ ]

I don't think so, an insane amount of cash passes hands in a casino and they don't interfere. Stakees to stakers, husband to wife, friend to friend. I mean you might manage to make yourself suspicious enough, but you'd probably have to try. The casino wants money to flow, usually people getting money in a casino are getting it in order to gamble. Even if that isn't the point of the transfer they know there is a chance (and they love chances).

But I don't think there is much advantage unless you or your customers spend time in the casino anyway. You are safe pretty much wherever people are around. Just don't do stupid things like $10k+ with a person you are meeting for the first time.

Hopefully OP learned his lesson. Don't trust anyone. Deal in person if it is for cash.

Matthewh3, that sucks dude - that same guy had me for £340 on Tuesday night - did you not see my feedback on his profile advising people not to trade with him? (didn't leave that until the evening, after tho after my bank had rang that day).

My bank haven't done anything like frozen my account, awaiting a call back but last I heard she was just looking at deducting what would of been profit on the trade. End of the day its the other persons banks fault surely, they let someone use there customers account without there knowledge (doesnt it work like that?). Under what grounds are they freezing your account?

Tell them to fu*ck right off! bloody banks!

Thinking about it, when did you do this trade, I did mine late Tuesday nite, it was flagged by my bank in the morning - I wonder if it from the same account or a different one as I wondered if he was pulling a swift one (ie getting the bitcoins and claiming fraud on his account).

Email us some details if you could, wouldnt mind poking around.

Same thing happened to me.  I did multiple trades in one day and I'm not sure which one is flagged yet.  I am really irritated because multiple people told me UK bank transfers were irreversible, and this is the reason I accepted it.

Is this over the last few days yeah? seems to be a spate of it lately then.

I thought they were as well to be honest, or at least pretty much, I guess after seeing so much "dont accept paypal" I let my guard down on the whole hacked bank accounts thing. I did wonder if its the actual ower of the bank accounts pulling a scam, not sure what I base that on.

HSBC seems to be quite unfriendly towards bitcoin. It was not too long ago that Mtgox had a HSBC account for accepting international wires, which they also had to close. I would recommend using a different bank.

You should change the thread title to: "Instant Bank Transfer BEWARE of fraud!"

This.

Indeed, + this.

ps - sorted my bank issue - mine are just deducting what would of been the profit, rather reasonable of them I thought, considering when I told the woman I'd sold some bitcoins she didn't have a clue what I was talking about. She even sent me a reply to my very educational email a few recommendations for when dealing with bank transfers (note that in the interests of keeping peoples conversations private - between me and my bank I have paraphrased a little :-

1) Check the name of the remitter matches the name of the person you are dealing with
2) Find out as much information about them as possible. Fraudsters will tend to flit around and not build up history so these are the type of characters you would want to avoid or get a safer method of payment from.
3) I would consider Paypal and Visa to be safer methods of payment than Bank Transfers.

Well, I think points 1 & 2 are spot on and thinking about it, I failed on points 1 & 2, however 3......

LOL, did I read that right? Your bank told you paypal and visa were safer then wire transfer? That's funny, is it not?

I'm guessing they don't want your dirty little bitcoin business?

Just lost both mine and my wifes bank accounts and all the money in them b/c someone paid me with stolen details.