Bitcoin Forum

Here we go  :)

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/12/sell-everything-ahead-of-stock-market-crash-say-rbs-economists (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/12/sell-everything-ahead-of-stock-market-crash-say-rbs-economists)

Investors face a “cataclysmic year” where stock markets could fall by up to 20% and oil could slump to $16 (£11) a barrel, economists at the Royal Bank of Scotland have warned.

In a note to its clients the bank said: “Sell everything except high quality bonds. This is about return of capital, not return on capital. In a crowded hall, exit doors are small.” It said the current situation was reminiscent of 2008, when the collapse of the Lehman Brothers investment bank led to the global financial crisis. This time China could be the crisis point.

I'm reading this in Dutch papers too.

Bankers predicting economic doom porn .....

https://i.imgur.com/Bh3F5WD.gif

What they don't say is "Don't leave your money in the bank". Now that bail-ins have been made legal, banks are going to be taking depositors funds to cover their reckless lending. The government is no longer prepared to bail them out.

it's weird that such a large bank advices people to sell everything. i don't mind it because people will look for different things to invest in. bitcoin is the perfect option. if these investors do invest their money into bitcoin, then prepare for a new ath.

This time around the spike should be in the $2000+ region right? If a lot of scared people invest in bitcoins if there is really a big stocks crash it should reach these prices without breaking a sweat.

i don't know how high the new ath will be, but imagine what a few extra billions of fiat comming into bitcoin can do with the price.

This has been happening for years and years.
That's why these debts keeps on getting higher and higher.
Instead of paying off what they own, they just keep increasing that debt

I don't believe this. If will happen something normally can be a controlled one. If it will be not under control will be put in control. It is at all problem this in a centralized country like China. So whatever be the situation cannot be out of control of the Chinese Authorities. Can be out of control only if this will be wanted by the Chinese Authorities and for sure cannot cause damages or only controlled damages to them. To many times are foreseen problems (little, big or even huge) for China but the results are that today China make "fear" to USA. And in 30 years was increased from a very poor country in the second power of the world. Who foreseen about China must think twice before make public that which want to tell about it.

to me this sound more like sell everything and jump in bitcoin, they are destroying themselves basically

money will not vanish, be prepared...because money will simply move, to the best thing out there, guess what will be for some investors

This is why I'm not holding too much in any bank at all
I find it hard to trust any of them.


This too ^
Money won't just vanish over night.

You heard the news. Time to act, if you have large amount of money stored in stocks or FIAT piled under the bed now it is good time to convert it all into bitcoin.
If crisis hit us, bitcoin price will initially go down a little, but in the long run will be probably one asset unscathed after the crisis.

What is the connection between other stock and bitcoin ? I don't think much of the stock traders are in bitcoin trading till now.

There is no direct relation in a way that bitcoin's price is dependent on price of stocks or stock markets. It is more like both bitcoin and stock function on the same level.
Bitcoin and stock are still treated as speculative tool and investment method by people.

It`s really weird, like a suicide attempt by the bank.  ???

You need to hold on to your Bitcoins for a bit longer and when the time is right then you need to sell. It all depends on for what price you like to sell them and what makes you happy.
I you do not like the price then you just have to wait longer and longer.

It will be not the best thing that you can do because there are also a lot of people that is waiting for a price increase and that would be nice for them if they can sell it.
But they have now to only wait for a higher value and just sell it on the right moment.

Selling everything at this stage would be the worst thing to do with your coins, as we have waited too long to see higher price and now its just a matter of three months so we need to wait till the right time comes.

Buying "high quality" :D bonds is the worst advice ever. While I agree that stock markets could drop soon, because valuations are historically high and the economic situation is not really improving, investing the money into bonds is outright lunacy. Bonds are the biggest bubble of all, especially government bonds.

Western governments are more indebted than ever before. Yet their bonds pay no significant or even negative interest. One of the reason: Central banks are buying the debt with freshly printed money. Bonds may be rated "AAA", but in fact most of them are junk. No one in his right mind would invest in bonds - well... except bankers... :D

The most reasonable alternative to stocks are precious metals and Bitcoin.

ya.ya.yo!

Well, it certainly is a cataclysmic year so far, so the article is right about that.

"Right now I would be backing my investments with some kind of digital-currency thing I heard of a while ago, that seems to have been performing quite well over the past few years, and if I remember correctly, it sounds like the supply of it might be getting halved or something in a few months, if only I could remember what it was."

I wonder how many investors are going to get shafted by these losses, and will think that same thing as they watch their investment value dwindle.

Maybe it's time to move some money from stocks to fixed funds for those that have money in retirement plans.  Or at least to some more conservative  funds.

You are correct. Debt to GDP ratios are skyrocketing and your "high quality" bonds are last ditch attempts to stabilize economies. The bond market is over-saturated and is propped up on extremely low-yield bonds that traders are now scrambling to sell. These low yields are the only way that the governments can maintain the illusion of a robust economy. Now is a massive crash coming? Most likely not. But a massive slowdown and global recession is almost guaranteed to occur this year. Look to China to trigger this downward spiral, followed by Japan.
Some good links:
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/another-step-off-the-deep-end-boj-to-offer-japanese-banks-negative-interest-rates-to-fund-commercial-loans/
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/here-it-comes-ugly-end-game-for-japan-on-debt-spiral/
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/good-job-kuroda-san-japanese-government-bond-market-is-dying/
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-1-trillion-bubble-at-the-bottom-of-the-bond-market/

Disclaimer: i have no affiliation with Stockman, or his website. I just think that he collects news very well and injects his own opinions/research/analysis very well.

I would only sell everything when I am going to stop with Bitcoin because to sell everything at this moment it would not be the best option. This is because the price can always change so if you sell everything you can miss the opportunity to make more money.

Selling everything is never recommended, if you see price higher you should sell some part of  it and hold rest for the future as you can earn more profits in future if price goes higher.

It is not the best thing that you can do now at the moment because it will be also much better if you are waiting for a higher value so you have more money later and that is nice.
But the hard thing is that you have to choose the right moment to sell it and that is important.

I doubt that they will run to Bitcoin as a safe heaven? Bitcoin has been too volatile in the past and the complexity of the technology and it's bad reputation will turn people to old commodities like gold and silver. I agree, if some of them turn to Bitcoin, then we will be looking at a much stronger price.

People are getting used to warnings and they seldom react to it, which makes the impact so much more intense when it happens.   

Exactly you should know when is the right time to sell, generally its not possible to judge the perfect time to sell, but if you are able to make some good profits then you should sell it.

Well, if one is given with the right information and the proper amount of information, he could predict with such accuracy when the value will generally be high and when it will be low. Unfortunately, that is nearly, but not truly impossible because the 'proper amount of information' required would be dramatically high to get such accurate prediction.

Maybe this is the right for moment him, we have different views when is the right time, moment, etc. It is nice if you justify when and why it is the right moment to sell?

Different people have different expectations from bitcoin, someone feels this is not the right time to sell and on other hand some are highly satisfied with current price who bought at lower price.

It's just like the stock market, everyone has their price, and everyone knows what they're looking for. We won't know what everyone is looking for, and if they're in it for the quick and easy profits or if they're in it for a longer plan.

People from Mt. Gox, if they haven't sold soon after the crash in 2014/2015, are probably still holding their Bitcoin and waiting for the value of it to go up. I wouldn't sell at a loss like this, so I think is not outside of the realm of possibility.

Selling everything is never the best thing to do unless you want to stop with Bitcoin forever then I understand that you want to sell everything to cash in your last coins. When you decide to still continue with Bitcoin but you want to make money just sell some coins not all.

Selling everything will be not the best thing that you can do and that is because the value of the Bitcoin is not even that high so that have to change soon and the price have to rise.
But some people think also that the value will takes a long time until the value will be high so you need the patience for it.

I would only sell everything if I was going to stop with Bitcoin because the value of the Bitcoin can always go up again. So if you sell to early then you might miss the chance to make more money so do not be greedy but patient.

I would sell everything if the price was right, that was what I used to think but I know now that when you sell there is a change that the price after that will rise.
Then yo have missed out the chance to make even more money which is a wait.

Well these bankers also have an interest when financial markets crash. Volatility is good for them since it creates more occasions to win money.
Anyway, I don't believe these kind of "news".
Every day a famous guy is screaming that apocalypse is close and of couse when it happens someone predicted it.

I don't think we need to panic yet, but we are overdue for a recession in America. But I wonder if bitcoin would be negatively affected. People could shift from stocks to gold and bitcoin, but you never know.

yeah, it is better not to be panicing right now because the price is going to grow a lot in the future

It might also lower a lot because people will sell bitcoins (at the moment a luxury good) to buy necessity goods (food, cloths) because of their lack of money.

Speculation is easy and there are plenty of reasons to justify each logic

i'll believe when i see it and buy more. i was gonna sell some shares at the start of the year just in case then forgot about it. good job i did as they're about 10% up since then. i don't think they're gonna stop helicoptering money in any time soon. we're entering uncharted territory. all sorts of weird stuff could happen.

Ah yes, I remember this thread!

It's nice someone necrobumped it, because the stock market is doing just fine thus far.  But we've still got a few more months left.  I like when such predictions are wrong.

It is never a good thing to sell all your coins at once if you because there is always a chance that the price is going to still rise.
If you have then sold everything then you just missed out on some money.

Yeah selling all coins is never recommended as you  never know what will be the price of bitcoin in future so its better to hold some of them  for the future.

Don't put all eggs in one basket, price can also get lower but if the amount of the bitcoin volume is low then the loss isn't much to care about because you risked that money and are able still to sell them so you don't lose 100%

Its always better to sell them in parts as future will allow  you to make huge profits if price goes higher  so selling everything is never recommended.

reading the OP this topic was about the stock market fall of early 2016 and i do believe that even if some of your investments (stocks or anything else that you included as a diversification) stayed up or even gone higher, but you shouldn't be greedy and sell it if you feel like a fall is incoming and the chances of losing money is getting high.

it is always better to miss out on profit rather than losing money because you held.

That's what I tried to said above, when investing we should for a while forget that we invested and that we are holding bitcoins but after a while if the price increased we can sell them all but I believe that we will get back and buy again so better selling a part and not all.

If the consensus is that doom is coming, chances are that it won't happen. More likely: the market (and bigger whales) will squeeze the premature shorters before doom is really on the table. All in due course.

Exactly. This is from early 2016. There's always a dip in January / February but this one was bigger than 'normal' (Whatever that means). People did sell and the markets have since recovered. At this point things could go either way, but we seem to be out of the worst of it.

I'm guessing the market will chop around at the top for a few more years, killing off the early bears. It doesn't look good long term, though.

Not the right time to sell bitcoins as price is not too high at a moment so if you want to earn higher profits then I think you should hold it for a longer time.

If the bitcoin price drops further to below $600, that will be a very good time to buy some more as it will rise in 6 months.

why it does not looking good for a long term? i think it is really great to buy bitcoins as an investment right now because it will allow you to make big money

Omg really 16 dollar per barrel omg that is crazy destruction price.I think that price will not go so low.If that happent it will destroy world economy very fast and it can caude man wars because of crises.Better go up.

A lot of oil wells will stop pumping before we reach those levels.
$25-$30 is the absolute bottom as far as marginal cost of production of oil is concerned.

If the oil drops below $30 and stay there for a few months, there will be no North Sea oil production at all.

It sound weird that this comes from a bank to sell everything if you have invested on something.  Maybe they sensed something about investing in stocks.  Or maybe they just wanted to put people's money on the bank because they do not have much depositors. ;D  Whatever the reason is, people will still opt to find ways to invest rather that putting some of their money to the bank that gives a little interest.

I agree to to only sell some of your Bitcoin and only sell them all at once if you know that this is going to be your last time on Bitcoin.
If not it is allot better to always have some Bitcoin saved up.

The prediction could be 2 years off or more. In the 2008 financial crisis Michael Burry was one the the first people, if not the first person to notice and predict that a crash was bound to happen. That was as early as 2005 or 2006 if I have my facts right. When the banks were bailed out what did they do? They received and got their bonuses and went right back to what they were doing. Common sense would tell you another crash will happen sooner or later.

Sell everything all your coins is seems not good. If all your
investments in trading and sold all your coins may leads to
lose all your bitcoin. We all know that all investments are
risks.

Yeah and I think if you have saved bitcoins then you always have an chance to make profits in future when price will go higher so its good to sell them in installments instead of selling them at once.

It is not the best idea to be selling all of your Bitcoin at once because I know that there is still always a chance that the price keeps on rising.
Always save some of your Bitcoin just in case the bitcoin decides to keep rising.

Exactly it won't be smart to sell them all at one point as there is always an possibility that price will go beyond our expectations in future so if we have saved some coins then it can help us in getting higher profits.

Savings is always good. Savings in.Bitcoin is even better. In the future the price will probably go up and at one point we will reach the moment when the demand will be greater then demand. So I think it's good to save the coins for that moment. I wouldn't support the idea to sell everything.

selling everything is good if you really badly need that amount of money in your bitcoin wallet, but the best thing is to save your bitcoin until to have huge profit in the future.

I think that now is not the right time to sell everything. bitcoin prices and other altcoin still increasing, perhaps this will continue until the end of the year. Well, bitcoin prices may reach up to $ 800 and $ 900, so it may be better to menah coins that you have rather than sell everything now

The article doesn't even mention Bitcoin, so what are you talking about?
If anything, Bitcoin value should rise in times of economic uncertainty.

Read the OP before you comment.

I do not think that you should sell everything at once only if you decide to quit with Bitcoin then you should sell them all.
It is always better to save some Bitcoin just in case the price rises again.

Selling everything is not a good idea. We cannot guarantee what will happen in the future but for now as long as you are earning with your investments then there's nothing to fear. Just need to save more just in case everything will crash down.

I would never sell everything at once because that it just a stupid idea if you ask me, the bitcoin can always go up even if you have sold already.
You should save some Bitcoin just in case the Bitcoin might become worth more.

Well, the less experienced people here in this forum and outside the forum still think the price can fall down to zero at any time. That explains why they panic sell at the time the price is tanking. They just want to avoid ending up with nothing. This will remain in their heads for as long as they keep thinking like this.

Yeah we should always keep some bitcoin in spare for future as we never know how high it can go in future and if at that stage if we don't have coins then we would miss the opportunity of making higher profits.

I agree I would also not sell everything at once because it is better to always save some of your bitcoin for the future prices to come.
That is when you are going to make money but if you sell them all you will have nothing left.

It will be a worst decision to make to sell all our coins at a single point, as it can give us higher profits in future if we have managed to save some coins for that point.

It is possible that the bitcoin price will rise in the long term. So it is better to keep the coins for long term.

This was back in January.Now it`s November and there is no cataclysm.

We live in interesting times and the world crysis continues but there is no Armageddon.

The oil will never reach 16$ per barrel.