Bitcoin Forum

This is so classic I can't believe nobody saw this coming.

Just like stocks bitcoin has climbed a wall of fear.

The wall of fear really started here when Gavin announced his meeting with the CIA 4/27/2011
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6652.0 (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6652.0)

Price Rises

Sunday 6/5/2011 Senator Charles Schumer Pushes to Shut Down Online Drug Marketplace and mentions bitcoins as a way to launder money.


Price Rises


Then today Garzik is on CBS News video-->http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html)

Price Rises


I have a feeling that before or right after the CIA conference on 6/14/2011 we will see a correction in the price.

Listen to what Garzik said on the CBS interview. It doesn't sound like bitcoins will be as uncontrolled as most people on the forum thought it would.........The authorities will know who you are , governments will control it and oversee it.

It really is the only way for bitcoins to survive but to survive as what?

You do realize that's not Gavin?  ;D

once bitcoin is controlled by government, it is as good as dead. Not that it ever will be.

Gavin, is politician in nature. He did not want any troubles for bitcoin in start of bitcoins rise. He is ready almost to anything to buy more time for bitcoin. You can take him serious, and that will serve for good.

I am so much dumber for having watched that CBS clip and listening to those dumb people on the couches talk.

Can someone please explain how the heck Kevin Pollack has a word of input in a discussion about BitCoins? I'm baffled by his useless presence in that piece.

Well, there is always was a hope, that he will stand up and show his miracle ass, or another part, that makes girls hot.

Is anyone else as disgusted as I with Garzik's comments in the interview?

His interpretation of 'good guys' was pretty scary.

 

He was just listen carefully to Gavin. That is a public relation, you know. And Gavin work hardly to buy more time for bitcoins to start.
Edit: Or Gavin listen carefully to him, that dos not matter.

And what is the correct exchange rate for 2 fiat currencies that have different rates of growth?

This is exactly what I wanted to hear.  To survive Bitcoin must work with government.  This is a buy signal.

Who knows.
It seems to me the US government is allowing it and already has a plan for it and if that's the case you can say goodbye to the global buyers of bitcoins.  

What are you trying to say then?

I am think he want to say, that there is will no buyers in other countries.
They will start another chain, independent from bitcoin chain. Like you now USD and EUR. Something like that.
And this can happen, by the way.

This could have been the plan all along anyway. That way each country can control their own VC. I agree with the whole premise of bitcoins but come on guys did you really think the governments of the world would let you create a currency without them.

I agree. Nothing has ever been done without great assistance from government employees before. Nothing.

government is for those who cannot govern themselves

I guess that's why the bitcoin exchanges are following government rules

Only the public exchanges.

heh.

+1

The best part about 'regulated' exchanges is it placates the government. Until they realize later that bitcoin's overarching goal was to supersede being exchanged into a local currency. At that point they'll bluster and call out "No Fair!", but we'll be too busy having fun to notice much :)

I'm european, I have bitcoins. This is a free market: if mtgox doesn't allow you to buy them another exchange will do. I'm also able to buy anything from america (including assets) from europe.

You people are talking crazy.

You don't get the point

When the US government has their hands in the bitcoin business I doubt global buyers will continue to buy.

Would you continue to buy bitcoins if the US Government was regulating them?

There really isn't a good way to regulate them... that's the point. How would you suggest they regulate them?

Bit coins are just as traceable as any currency with a serial number on it, and even more so then cash.  government involvement is actually a good thing for bitcoins as it legitimises it, which would make people who are risk adverse and would otherwise steer clear of bitcoins, part of the community.   Would you rather the government fight it, just hurting the value for everyone?

Sorry for all you who thought anarchy was going to ensue... Rich people are rich for a reason, they know how to watch their money and get more money.  The cool thing here is that we as early adopters have a leg up on the old money in this case....

If non-US countries know what they are doing, they won't give 2-shits about whether the US outlaws/regulates Bitcoin or not.  That does not diminsh it's value, however it may make a certain part of the world's population ineligible to use Bitcoins.

Besides, it's completely moot.  There's no way for the US government to block Bitcoins anyways; it's not technologically feasible.  The only thing they could do is outlaw it's use at point-of-sale stores, which they have some influence over already. 

Sure you can trace them, from anonymous account to anonymous account. If I want, I'm sure I can store some bitcoins away where no one will ever find them or link them to me personally. And there isn't a way to stop me the way the system is currently designed.

Look at the link to the video of the CBS News interview I posted earlier. The main exchange is already regulated and looks like bitcoin developers will cooperate with regulators.

See the price spike to $28+ that's called a blow off top.

The cats out of the bag the US Government has their hands all over this.

People will be trampling over themselves to get their cash out soon. The main exchange won't be able to handle the stampede which will perpetuate the crash.

Bottom line Bitcoin can't be what you thought it could period.

The main developers knew the the Government would need to be involved and hinted to such.

You knuckleheads just never bothered to listen. Now you get to pay the price for not paying attention.

They are not as anonymous as you think.

Think about it. You have to get them from somewhere...

a) you generated them (belong to a mining pool?)  Did they log your IP?, did you sign up with them and give them your email address?
b) you purchased them (with money from a bank account??)
c) you traded for them (on what site ebay? craigs list?  your cousin louie?)  ask your self where did he get them your only 1 hop away from him.
d) you spent them, which super node recorded the transactions first, was the CIA watching the logs of a vast majority of the nodes to see how the transactions unfolded.  Can they pinpoint your IP or geolocation from that?  What other information could they calculate from the transaction logs and how they played out?

Mathematically speaking, its probably very difficult to hide your true identity completely and possibly impossible to leak absolutely fucking 0 information about your self from any transactions that you do.

I do agree that it is possible to conduct anonymous transactions with bitcoin, however, I think that a vast majority of bitcoin transactions will be very much traceable ...



 

What the hell are you talking about?

The "main exchange" is MtGox.  It's located in Japan, not the US, so the US cannot "regulate" it.  It is totally meaningless for Japan to "regulate" it as well, since regulation of Bitcoin is technologically impossible.  What are they going to do, pass laws against math?   ???   Furthermore, there is nothing that Jeff Garzik needs to do regarding "the government".  Writing code is not a crime (yet), nothing he does falls under anything resembling US securities laws.


You are an idiot, and you clearly have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.

So the biggest bitcoin exchange is legal. Why is that a bad thing? It actually is a very good thing.

You didn't really think you could avoid paying taxes on dollar profits, did you? If you don't want to pay taxes, don't buy dollars with your bitcoins! Let your bitcoins rest or sell them for goods not for dollars.

It is regulated. Every transaction you make at MtGox into a government currency is being tracked and recorded. Why do you think they have withdraw limits? They are a money changing business. The US government could seize their funds in a heartbeat. What good are your bitcoins if you can't easily trade them for cash.

Go smoke some more weed

 

I can buy some of that with bitcoin. Mmmm, screw euros and dollars and all that B.S.!

They'd only do that for specific reasons, for example to stop tax evading.


Go smoke some more dollars  8)

http://i14.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/33/25/0b2f_1.JPG

"Online currency caches, such as PayPal, are beginning to accept the online coinage." What?

I think you missed the point of Bitcoin entirely...


'k.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

What I'm saying is a large portion of the people on this forum believe the value of bitcoin is it's ability to not be regulated or controlled by a government. Once they figure out they are wrong what's going to happen to the value of bitcoins?

I say it becomes a paypal.
Whats a paypal worth?
Depends what currency you put into your account
 

Because it's paypal. Bitcoin is opposite to it. It's not controlled by any government. usa can block Bitcoins but other 200+ countries will still accept it. Believe me - if a lot of people join Bitcoin in USA there will be nice fight on the streets if it will be disabled/blocked in their country.

Ofc Bitcoin have some central points - like irc, main places of exchange(mtgox) and for example website is posted on some web server with specific ip(but also on SF), but remember - irc can be replaced, server can be replaced(or even software can be distributed via p2p in torrents for example) and mtgox is in Japan, if he disappear then price will drop, but bitcoin will not disappear : )

Bitcoin can't be controlled just like that.  They would need to close mtgox, put gavin in jail and close half of the internet. GL with that.

Time will show us facts.


Anyway -
It's a revolution. Go bitcoins!

btw. - epic:

Pro-gubmint troll wants to buy in cheap eh?

Two words.

Blind signing. We're going feral babe.

Why is it that every time there is a publiclity spike or a price spike, bitter fuckwads like you who never owned any BTC and are too poor to buy any mining equipment, come preaching on the forums about how it's all going to crash and we're all going to die?

Hint: It's happened dozens of times. You're not the first. And they always disappear/vanish after a few weeks.

That would make bitcoin an awesome decentralized alternative to paypal, with cheaper fees and available everywhere. That's more than enough to drive the price of bitcoins over a thousand dollars each.

the US government regularly shuts down companies acting within the guidelines of their mother country?

Sure they can tax and track major trades into and out of USD via registered businesses. But technologically, there's nothing to regulate that wouldn't ultimately be a tiny speed bump to worldwide Bitcoin adoption. Port 8333? IRC? Crypto algorithms? Open source? Tor? Freenet? Electricity? Thoughtcrime? I'm sure there are plenty of people in various think tanks racking their brains to come up with a technological or legal fix for the "problem of bitcoin" or the "problem of cryptocurrency" in general. But really there's no "solution", because there's ultimately no problem.

So your question is moot.

I don't think anyone needs to rack their brain to figure out a way to destroy bitcoins. Seems easy to me it just takes money.

I'm sure the US government has been a major buyer of bitcoins for months maybe even from the start.
All they have to do is dump it on the market. You guys couldn't afford to buy it all to stop the fall. 90% of you guys are weak holders you'll run away just a fast as you ran in. 

Guess what happens when they get down to parity? We'll buy them all back. Have you ever traded before? Because the theories you are putting out there suggests otherwise.

I see so you guys have enough money to outspend the US government and defend bitcoins price.

My whole point here is people are going to get clobbered and lose lots of money which will hurt bitcoins future adoption. While the early adopters might be fine all the new people running in right now are going to get slaughtered.

adding 75 million to bitcoins market value in 12 hours is not sustainable

Just watched Garzik "tip the scales in the favor of the good guys." With thought leaders like him who needs enemies?  I don't understand why he would want btc exchanges to comply with ridiculous "know your customer" rules.

Erm, no one would have to outspend the government.  The point of such an exercise would be that they are buying, the existing owners are selling.

In fact, if the government did insist on buying all the bitcoins, they would simply make all the existing owners terribly rich as they drove the price up and up.  Then when they are the sole owner of bitcoins in the world, what will they have exactly?  Some numbers on a hard disk.  The value of bitcoins comes from their tradeability, they are not inherently worth anything.

So; once we're all rich having sold bitcoins v1; what exactly would the government do with their new pile of bytes to stop us starting bitcoins v2 and beginning again?

No... a government buying bitcoins would be the most monumentally stupid action they could possible take.  Not only would nobody get clobbered, it would be the biggest advert for Bitcoins imaginable.

They wouldn't buy them and hold them. They would dump them after some accumulation. You guys couldn't afford to make the price stable bitcoins crash people get burned. The media covers the story of how people got burned. Then everyone is afraid of any virtual currency.

Seems like someone should be a TV psychic with their own show.

How do you 'know' any of this? The truth is, you're just pulling things out of your ass and presenting them as truth. Please don't mind us, we're just trying to run away from the smell.

I don't know for sure but it would be the cheapest way to destroy bitcoin and put a damper on any other virtual currency being adopted.

If they just seize the exchangers bank accounts they look like bad guys and create more interest in virtual currency and the development of better exchanges.
 

Sounds like a great time to buy more bitcoins to me.

What happens if there are people who use Bitcoin that won't exchange it for fiat currency?

Buying Bitcoins to create instability or a price bubble would be an interesting strategy in the short term at least.  What would stop the FED from doing it right now?  I'd be interested to see if there is a price dip at the end of the month when QE2 ends.

So you're saying they would buy a load at higher than market price, pushing the price up; then they would sell them cheap at lower than market price?

This sounds brilliant.  Sign me up.  I've got bitcoins I'm willing to let go for $1000 each and then buy back at $1 each.

I would buy more of them. Besides, the federal government outlawed gold ownership in 1933 for a few decades, so Bitcoin is in good company.

That is the true purpose of it (just buy things with it) but at this time unless you're a miner you're not getting any without cash (sure you could sell something for it) The masses have decided this is a get rich quick vehicle or a store of wealth and they are all piling in right now running up the price too fast. The inefficiency of the major exchange is also causing the price to run up too quick. Look at the posts of people being pissed because it takes too long to get accounts funded and how they watched the price increase as they waited days to make a trade. Once they get their money in the account they pull the trigger because they just watched it go up 75% in 12 hours. This inefficiency in the exchange will have the same effect on the downside as people won't be able to fund their accounts fast enough to buy bitcoins and defend it's price.

The recent rise in the last day is a recipe for disaster. Nothing but speculative. These new people don't give a rats ass about bitcoins or buying things with bitcoins. These people have $ signs in their eyes.  If these new people lose money bitcoins will be dragged through the mud and masses may never adopt a virtual currency.

This kind of FUD has been discussed so many times in this forum, that it's a waste of time to even respond to it in detail...  ::)

Beware of Astroturf! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing)  ;)

Maybe. And maybe the publicity from the speculation, and even the speculators themselves, will realize the benefits of Bitcoin and even a market crash will not kill this once it's out of the bag. I lean more towards the positive outcome, Bitcoin has many useful properties and that point won't be lost in the frenzy.

There.  The Newspeak grammar police have "regulated" your post.   ;)

Only companies that are too small to hire the lawyers and press exposure necessary to repel them.

So the entire Bitcoin economy is currently about BTC 6.4 million and according to this (http://bitcoinreport.blogspot.com/2011/06/bitcoin-top-1000-rich-list-6th-june.html) the top 1000 Bitcoin addresses hold about BTC 3.3 million between them. So how much of that do you propose has been hoarded by the government for the purposes of "destroying Bitcoin?"

Personally, if every one of those coins got dumped tomorrow, I'd be buying like hell.

I am suppose he need to mention, that there's can no patrons in alternative countries.
They will begin another chain, freelance from bitcoin chain. such as you currently USD and EUR. one thing like that.
And this will happen, by the way.

It's better to always watch the forecasts of different analysts, and only then try to understand the logic of all these forecasts. In any case you need to think for yourself at the end of the day.

The developer of the program calls himself Satoshi Nakamoto (Satoshi Nakamoto), he proposed an electronic payment system based on mathematical calculations.

It depends on the number of people who believed in this virtual money and invested in it real money. There is already included financial magic, which we will not consider due to the complexity of the topic.