Bitcoin Forum

I’m new to this so try to take it easy on me ;). I know, as a Bitcoin enthusiast, some may want to punch me in the face just for mentioning Ripple but hear me out.  I love bitcoin but decided to put my differences aside and really look into “the scam coin” XRP and Ripple.

I found that Ripple combined with their new product ILP (Interledger Protocol) is actually a brilliant idea and an idea that could possibly provide solutions to problems with Bitcoin at this very moment.

1) Bitcoin Transaction Time and Increased Block Size
Use a Bitcoin wallet for your savings accounts (real bitcoins) and use Ripple’s IOU system for transactions.  Trading a btc.iou (for example a Bitstamp.btc IOU) can be done instantaneously with Ripple. So… when making purchases online wouldn’t it be more efficient for both the buyer and merchant to use an IOU system for faster confirmations? Wouldn’t this be great for Bitcoin because it would reduce the amount of transactions on the network?  Less micro-payments, instead there would be fewer large single transactions, which could help reduce the need for huge block sizes.

2) Bitcoin Connections
Banks are using private networks (there is no getting around this). They refuse to use a public ledger. So networks of banks are being established using private ledgers cutting out bitcoin.  The problem is they are limited to only transactions within their private networks (which isn’t much of a game changer).  Ripple is developing the Interledger Protocol that provides a means for public, private and permissioned networks to trade between each other. Making transactions between bitcoin and the financial world easier.


Here are some interesting recent quotes that might make you think twice about the Ripple.

"There’s a lot that Bitcoin or Ripple and variants can do to make moving money between countries easier and getting fees down pretty dramatically. But Bitcoin won’t be the dominant system.” – Bill Gates

“Given this multi-chain vision, we see smart contracts as a key piece. Then you need ILP, which is the glue in the system that holds everything together, so that different chains can interoperate. That means a derivatives chain can interact with the securities chain it’s derived from. In all of these interactions, you’ll have to move money around. So you will need Ripple for that.” – Marley Gray (Microsoft)


My point is both can coexist, XRP as a vehicle (that has some control like the usd) and bitcoin as a commodity (store of value like gold but with the advantage of being easily transactional). So to me, Ripple and Bitcoin are not competitors.  In fact, if you asked Ripple employees if they liked bitcoin, 99% of them would probably say they love it.


Note: Also, with the bitcoin mining power centralized in China and Ripple now has Microsoft (and others) wanting to run validators.  Ripple may actual end up being more decentralized than Bitcoin.

No

No.  Ripple isn't Ripple Labs' top priority anymore.  It's Interledger.

I don't think so. Since some working "2.0 coins" are out in the wild XRP is hopelessly outdated. In addition, XRP never gained widespread adoption. At this moment it appears ETH will "be “The Killer App” Bitcoin has been looking for".

For now, yes.

oh jeez LOL
"Killer APP" i really hate this new millennial generation and all their trendy faggy crypto buzzwords.
You guys make me rolls my eyes here so much i will be cross-eyed forever until they bleed !
Holy god damn mother of fucking Christ whee do i start ?

This thread needs your touch as well... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1343775.0

I was quoting the media's overused headline "Bitcoin's killer app".  YOU and your disgraceful comments is the main reason people avoid Bitcointalk.  Get your head out of your ass and make a productive comment.  Faggy? And we wonder why African Americans, women, and I assume the LGBT community aren't adopting bitcoin... idiot.

No.


Dump that shit and buy Ethereum before you get schooled.

Gets pushed to altcoin discussion because Ripple is mentioned despite it being about Bitcoin... ;) I guess I understand it can go either way.

Did anyone even read my questions or details? Outdated?  Ripple has been far ahead when it comes to FI and cross-boarder transactions.  They were taking the proper regulatory steps and hiring the right people before R3 even existed.  Bitcoin and Ripple are different.  Ripple/ILP is focused primarily on financial institutions and cross-boarder transactions, connecting public, private and permissioned ledgers. Bitcoin is still the king crypto, the gold of all digital currencies, the fallback and store of value.  But why can't Ripple's xrp, which better resembles actual government currencies (which is why there is so much hatred), not be successful in helping produce the internet of value?  Stop looking at this shit as an investment and start looking at it as a technology advancement and answer with some thought please. If not, do like Spoetnik and cross your eyes until they bleed.

Ethereum is not really a competitor to Ripple unless you are a trader.  Microsoft will be using ILP and Ethereum together.

There will be:
1) Bitcoin (gold)
2) Ethereum (smart contracts)
3) ILP (the glue that connects it all)

Your idea of widespread adoption is the bitcoin community. Ripple took the top down approach rather than the bottom-up approach.

Ripple was a 100% premine.  Fake coin.

Agree, XRP isn't Ripple's top priority anymore, XRP is more of a part of the Interledger Protocol.  The ability for small banks to trade with large banks that would normally not trust the smaller institutions. This is a game changer.

Please don't make me get into mining because I really don't want to bash bitcoin (I am heavily invested)  But let me say... large chinese miners are pushing bitcoin towards being more centralized.  Ripple adds validators (Microsoft will be running multiple validators) over time pushing it to be more decentralized.

Don't get me wrong.  I love the idea of mining and I think it adds real value to the coin.  But there are some issues at the moment.

Im not even talking about mining.  There is just no way to produce this centralised piece of crap unless you buy it from ripple or some bagholder.

No POS no POW nothing.  It's a total dead duck. 

This is a game changer for the banks for sure.  Now make it decentralized so that they could use it but not control/manipulate it.

Right now Ripple I believe runs most validators (early stages - so understand what you're saying) but Microsoft has already stated they want to run multiple validators and I'm sure more to come.

Just a matter of time for xrp and lumens to rise in price. Just don't expect anything for a while especially not the consumer transfer of assets killer app for a decade . You did your homework so now do what you want, when you want, how you want. Goodluck.

Why is ripple manipulatingbit's market cap?

How are they doing this?  Are they reducing the number of coins for sale or are they increasing the amount of xrp?

I'm just wondering how they are able to manipulate their market cap without manipulating the coin supply or price

I never said it was decentralized but while bitcoin is becoming more centralized (2 main chinese miners) Ripple is becoming more decentralized.

Once again, I do not hate bitcoin, I love bitcoin (I own many btc, even paid $100 for the first issue of Bitcoin Magazine so I could frame and put on my office wall... ;D). I feel like I am defending Ripple and that was not my intention. The whole point of this post was to attempt to get people to look past the bs and actually look into Ripple.  Ripple can help bitcoin and they are not competitors. Just because you don't like the distribution don't hold it against the technology. XRP may be different from bitcoin from a distribution standpoint but how can Bitcoin's distribution ever be mimicked and does it really matter as a vehicle? Bitcoin was first, the perfect distribution because no one knew the potential value.

They are not manipulating the market cap.  If you are referring to founder's assets, which has been brought up before, other coins founder's assets are part of their distribution as well. Plus one of Ripple's main sellers is one of the founders (Jed) so it's not like POS where it's full of shit.

Thank you! I really do think XRP has potential but yes Bitcoin is a safer bet in comparison.  If looking for high-risk, high-reward, take a look at XRP. 

Productive environment ?

Sorry i will correct my statement.

Ripple is awesome.. i plan on spending as much FIAT on it as i can this coming year.

Ripple to the Moon !

EDIT:
I also am not going to debate Ripple again..
Been there and done that in 2013.. time, to move on.

So you are Jed or his cousin Jacob?  I would rather not get into legalities but under the contract Jed supposedly signed he was limited to what him or his family could sell on his behalf.  The 100 million XRP put as a resistance wall on Bitstamp was much, much higher than the limit and was an obvious attempt to cause a huge dump. There was no reason to sell in that particular manner when selling in smaller increments over time would get a better price, probably much quicker.  Why would you trade 100 million XRP all at once in one big chunk? Even the average person would consider that a crazy risk and if you are who you say you are then you would know better unless you had other intentions. It sure seemed like an attempt to crash XRP...  Ripple ended up buying the XRP and the funds were then frozen by Bitstamp I believe (the reason they are involved in the case).  

Whether you are Jed or his cousin (or full of shit) I do have a very deep respect for Jed and what he started but what occurred sure seemed shady. I also am a huge supporter of what Stellar is attempting to do. Hope things get worked out but once again I ask what this has to do with XRP as a vehicle helping Bitcoin with it's current problems?

But they are manipulating the market cap.


In your opinion how long can they manipulate the market cap in order to stay at number 2 in front of ethereum before the whole thing either becomes an obvious sham or they go bust?

 it is incredibly difficult to buy XRP and incredibly difficult to sell XRP

Before commenting can you read the thread first? This isn't about bitcoin vs ripple and most recent comments have already been answered.

Here we go....

Source:
http://www.xrpchat.com/topic/857-sbi-holdings-invests-in-forms-joint-venture-with-ripple/


SBI invests in Ripple, Payward, FUNDBOX and bitFlyer.
They also found a joint company with Ripple.
Ripple earns approximately 3 billion yen and SBI subscribes for 17% shares of Ripple.

https://ripple.com/insights/ripples-deal-with-japanese-multinational-opens-door-for-rapid-asian-expansion/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ripple-strikes-multi-national-deal-060000917.html

http://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=28400

http://www.bankingtech.com/429572/ripple-joint-venture-with-sbi-brings-distributed-ledger-to-asia/


Japanese articles
http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXLASDZ28HX8_Y6A120C1TJC000/ (28/01/20016) << breaking news

http://www.sbigroup.co.jp/news/2016/0129_10138.html (29/01/20016)

http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGKKASDZ28HX8_Y6A120C1TJC000/ (29/01/20016)

http://japan.cnet.com/release/30131877/ (29/01/20016)

http://jp.techcrunch.com/2016/01/29/ripple-lab-sbi/ (29/01/20016)

 http://japan.cnet.com/release/30131877/

http://jp.techcrunch.com/2016/01/29/ripple-lab-sbi/


http://dot.asahi.com/business/pressrelease/2016012900220.html (29/01/20016)

http://itpro.nikkeibp.co.jp/atcl/news/16/012900308/ (29/01/20016)

underwhelming progress for a company thats been around for four years

Seriously? Lol I suppose the Microsoft news was
underwhelming as well. Or Santander? The list goes on... And on.  C'mon.

Those who analyze the crypto landscape dispassionately will tend to fare better. Can anyone see into the future? No, but I think that a global look at the fiat and crypto economy will indicate that XRP is likely to increase in value.

Ripple has been smart about iterating their product over and over with banks and regulators alike. On their board that have economists, former financial regulators, lawyers, former members of the NY fed, former members of PayPal, etc. This means that they are coming up with solutions that a) solve real problems that banks have and b) are compliant with financial regulations out of the box. The problem they have identified is one of real-time settlement especially in cross-border remittances. This use case stands to reduce remittance fees and free up capital that was previously stored in correspondent bank accounts. The technology stands to dramatically reduce international remittance fees. Ripple is building technology that doesn't require that banks or individuals use XRP in order to use the real-time technology. So, why would anyone want XRP then? 1) Well, their technology allows one currency to be immediately converted into another currency. For rare or medium-interest currency exchanges some time multiple currency exchanges are required to exchange one currency for another which means that the sender pays multiple FX spreads. XRP stands as a bridge currency to provide a near-shortest FX path. That is any currency can be converted into XRP and then into the currency of choice thereby lowering the number of spreads for most currency exchanges. 2) If XRP is liquid to any currency then the universal value of XRP will be highly stable. If you store you money as XRP then you're sheltered for big swings in the price of any particular country's currency. If you live in China but have your money in XRP then China devaluing it's currency doesn't negatively affect you. Ripple just inked a deal with SBI Holdings that will likely see XRP offered on trading platforms, the price will likely go up. But nothing is definite so speculators beware. Ripple is 100% premined and Ripple still holds 65% of all XRP. They can manipulate the market at will but there's no evidence they've done so to date.

Ethereum is not in competition with Ripple at all. Ether is the currency used to pay for computational work within and secure the Ethereum network. Ether only has utility within the Etherum network so you're speculating that Ethereum will be the dominant network for smart contracts. Ripple abandoned its smart contract platform Codius so they're not in competition on this front. BitCoin doesn't have a native smart contract platform. Ethereum is making a lot of progress in terms of smart contracts but they don't have any commercial products in active use yet and likely their platform will not be optimized for all types of smart contracts so it's unlikely they'll control the majority of the smart contract market. In all likelihood you'll see other smart contract platforms emerge that address specific use cases that Ethereum is not well-suited to address.

BitCoin is the original. Supporters of bitcoiners tend to be philosophically dedicated to the digital asset. We say it's decentralized but not much more so than Ripple (and Ripple is quickly decentralizing). How many miners control the network? Bitcoin will never make as much sense for point of sale usage as XRP or Fiat to me because of the confirmation lag time in the network. Sure, some transactions can still be processed off chain and batched but this creates counterparty risk as not all transactions will be honored. Risk increases fees. I do think that BitCoin has a future in terms of functioning not as a digital currency but as digital gold. People will see it as a safe, decentralized, uncontrolled, anonymous store of value. You'll see the value of BitCoin rise and fall inverse to faith in the global economy or national economies (as we recently saw with China).

The argument as to which is the best or which will be the dominant currency is not a useful argument in my mind because they address difference use cases. If you're philosophically committed to decentralization and anonymity then stick with BitCoin because identity controls will exist both within Ethereum and Ripple. If you're just speculating then diversify your portfolio and hold all three currencies in proportion to faith of the success of each. Personally I hold XRP and BitCoin right now and will get into Ether once the price comes down a bit to try to catch it before the next wave up. But it's all speculation.

What is a game changer? XRP or ILP?

ILP
https://interledger.org/

XRP will just be the best bridge asset for market makers providing cross-currency liquidity.
https://ripple.com/files/ripple_vision.pdf

Logically, if ILP has success XRP must significantly rise right?

This is not true, XRP is not required for ILP at all. ILP links ledgers together, often one banks ledger to another banks. It can link a banks ledger to the Ripple Network and use XRP, but this is not required at all and funds can be settled in near real-time between banks on a one-to-one basis without the use of XRP.

But it doesn't have counterparty risk so....

I would say if ILP is a success XRP would most likely have success as well.

Yeah, that`s what I think. ILP payments will need counterparty and XRP will play this role.

Greg Maxwell and the Lightning Network.
https://i.imgur.com/FCqIBSM.gif

Hyperledger from linux will kill ripple stone dead.  Dump XRP now before hyperledger is released.

Isn't Hyperledger a private distributed ledger?  So they will build a network of financial institutions that can trade among themselves but what happens to those that are not part of the network?  When evaluating XRP, think Interledger Protocol and how those private networks connect outside of their own network.  R3 was supposed to be a rival of Ripple but have since stated they would love to work with Ripple. Yes private networks is the big talk right now (Ripple was the first to realize banks refused to be on public ledgers) but something has to connect these private and permissioned networks for the internet of value to work and ILP plus XRP will be what makes that happen.

Huh? Confusing...

Very well said cmbartley