Bitcoin Forum

Most upvoted statement on Bitcoinocracy right now:
"If non-Core hard fork wins, major holders will sell BTC, driving price into the ground"

http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/if-non-core-hard-fork-wins-major-holders-will-sell-btc-driving-price-into-the-ground

There needs to be a market where they can put their money where their mouth is.

Yeah.

Right.

 I'll believe it when I see it. Everyone's willy swinging will grind to an immediate halt when the bottom line catches it mid dangle and gives it a squeeze.

And perhaps the self extermination of major holders will bring further fresh blood and progress. You can only sell once.

Actually, I agree. There needs to be a futures market of Classiccoins vs. Corecoins. At the very minimum, it'll be much easier to see where the real economic majority is. I think Eric Voorhees proposed something like this recently.

This might really be the case. However, once bitcoin survived this crisis, I am very sure the momentum will be unstoppable. Let the time tells.

Let them sell. Perhaps that will cause the Bitcoin spread to be much better and more fair. Instead of 1 person with thousands of coins, there will be 50-100 people holding these coins. It's just big talk. Action speaks louder than words!

more cheap coins for us i guess, i really don't see the issue, about, the non-core guy are only implementing something really needed not like xt that were adding unecessary crap

if they simply increase the capacity that's it, i'm all for it, i understand the issue with hard fork

but in the end even with seg wit you will be forced to hard fork, because it's not a final solution, and lightining network is not going to be a final solution either

and besides all this, it's not like we did not face any hard fork in the past, so why all the hate aginst it?....

You need to learn more. Part of this "New Bitcoin" is democratic vote on any features and limitations of Bitcoin system. Thought New Bitcoin will have 21M coins hard cap? Think again. Their main developer said so much: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4326ya/jonathan_toomim_on_bitcoin_classic_everything_can/

Those top addresses voting could be the same person for all we know

just sayin  ;D

Bitcoin does seem to survive many things and I am sure it can handle soft or hard fork.  This kind of talk only promotes FUD and that is not what is needed.  Focussing on a solution would be best at this time.

Tell u what:

https://blockchain.info/address/12JKDhDJfux3VjpRbDYQj81JAZNEyn2nfq

5 BTC transaction made over 1 hour ago. Still ZERO confirmations (and I need to wait on 6).

...lets face it, we have all been through this sort of shit, many many times with Bitcoin......and unless something is done to change this, you would have to think that Bitcoin's days are indeed numbered.

With a USD value that fluctuates so wildy, this sort of delay in a digital transaction is un-fucking-tenable.


Would Bitcoin XT change this? If yes, then it needs to go ahead. If  not, then move over Bitcoin, hello (............) Ethereum?

Just repeating the main point. Let them sell. :)

Thanks for posting this link. I was about to post this.
Absolutely crazy. To me this this statement makes him not being more than just a joke.
The 21M coin cap is and should continue to be inviolate, or it isn't bitcoin anymore. Having it out there for a vote makes the entire Classic project looking totally foolish.

I dont know why but reading that link reminded me of lord of the rings where all the fellowship of the ring are arguing until Frodo says he'll bear the ring

erm... anyway..

i'm not a major holder but i'm worried about implication of non-core winning

I seriously doubt this proposed fork has any credibility. The question is would these overlords do the same regarding a fork that was unquestionably carefully put together and overwhelmingly attractive to the majority? Is it purely a case of Core being usurped no matter what supersedes it?

It does not make any sense, any fork is non-core, if you want to keep core forever then you should not do any fork, thus any change is forbidden

Or you could say, any fork is a core hard fork since it is forked from core, but once you move to the new fork, core is dead

And there have been several non-core hard forks winning in the race, but I did not see major holders selling bitcoin

The amount of misinformation is really astounding regarding how blockchain works. I guess at this stage, no change can be done on bitcoin any more. Let's just freeze the code and prohibit any future change to it so that people get some peace in mind   ;D

I don't think it's such a bad idea, actually. At least, this is a preferable alternative to a split breaking the system and the community beyond repair. There is an old sysadmin saying: "If it works, don't touch it!"

I doubt many, if any, of these people will actually dump their coins.  And, if they do, be prepared to catch the falling knife.

I'm pro core and classic, but for now I'm throwing my chips on classic.  I've fired up a Classic node and turned on all of my old mining HW to Slush to vote in favour of the HF.

If the HF destroys Bitcoin, then so be it.

The problem is, there isn't much room for growth as it is now. Add to that, that it is fairly trivial to create spam attacks to fill blocks to capacity and slow confirmations to a snails pace. So I wouldn't just call it "working" because it isn't broken yet. If you expect Bitcoin to take flight to the next level, it needs some work.

This whole scalability issue should have been addressed years ago. Long before the growth phase began. That would have been the only way to cleanly fork and forget about the issue. Now we face civil wars on the subject and one side left butt hurt in the end.

+1  And it should be said that people have been trying for years.  At present, a good compromise would be Core saying that they'll validate SW and then HF to include it, along with a block size increase (in some capacity) in proper fashion.  Leave LN off the table until they actually have a proper way forward.

The only time I`d sell is if its rising.

If its going down, if anything because people are reacting to the forks will lead to a huge sell off - I`ll take the chance of buying a bunch while its going down.

Its very simple to understand for seeing it in my own eyes for the last 5years.

Youre also stating the VC`s who funding a bunch to support a community is asking to just bail out on their own millions of funding..

It looks like some holders already started.

Increase your fee. I didn't click on the link but are you still sending transactions using the 0.0001 fee?

If you want it to go through in a respectable time use a bigger fee tight ass ;)

Actually, I see the opposite: so far, every dump attempt is bought out pretty quickly. I guess the possibility of hostile hard fork is assessed as very low by the whales ATM. So, they use the uncertainty of the small/retail traders to increase their long positions. The market pattern definitely looks like accumulation to me.

The 21M limit is not fixed because Maxwell is protecting us from changing it, the 21M limit is fixed because the majority of users are incentivized to keep it.

It is the same with the blocksize limit, the majority are incentivized to increase the limit, so it will be increased.

Toomin is stating a basic truth of bitcoin, bitcoin is whatever its users want it to be. And the beautiful thing about bitcoin is no one can stop that

Pretty reckless to risk your investment (and Bitcoin protocol) to fix the non-existent problem of full blocks.

Some would say allowing a company to capture the protocol, steer it to their will, while selling lackeys on the idea that it is all in the name of safety and decentralization... would be pretty reckless. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I find it ironic that you bigblockers keep mindlessly repeating these propaganda points... While it's pretty clear to everyone with even half a brain that such propaganda was produced and fed to you by corporations whose only interests is in centralizing Bitcoin. Like Coinbase and a bunch of other centralized services. Now, talk about attempt to capture Bitcoin and bend it to narrow corporate interests...

Narrow corporate interests...

Now, if Coinbase had 9 Core developers in its pocket, and was quickly moving to roll out 20 MB blocks, whether miners wanted it or not... I would expect some pushback. I think the debate is mostly over, we'll see how many Classic nodes spin up in the coming weeks, and how many miners mine signal blocks in the coming months.

If nothing else, it will be an emergency "escape from Blockstream" lever.

if they are adding unecessary crap, then i'm with you, i'm only pro capacity increase and nothing else, unless it's necessary and needed for the benefit of bitcoin, like the malleability issue or other stuff like that

There is no way the limit of 21 million coins will be changed. Very few if any would want that. Possibly this could happen 50 to 100 years from now when the inflation rate is basically 0, but I don't see it happening any time soon at all.

Ah, captured by only having 1 blockstream employee have committ access to Core?

It could be a possibility, I'm not sure if I trust all these devs who are trying to hard fork. Something seems a little off.

Seems very doubtful for me this poll. Even is created correctly and with full transparency. All the amount of bitcoin that "play" in this pool is about 28 thousand and all those who are ready to sell if the event mentioned in this pool is verified own less than 23 thousand bitcoins. I don't know when has began and I don't know will finish. I don't know even the spread of this site in order that understand well if is big and can be ignored as pool or is an unknown one and have not the power to have all the needed data to be considered as credible. But for sure know that not less than 23 thousand but even ten times more bitcoins be sold cannot cause some important thing to the price of bitcoin. Are 15 millions are the bitcoins in circulation. So the previous amounts are nothing compared to this amount. For sure will be a dump (maybe even big) of the price but in the same time for sure will be the increase of it at the normal value had before this possible dump.

I could see mass fleeing to another coin.

I think you just don't get it. Holders of 23K bitcoins are by no means THE ONLY ONES ready to sell in case of hostile takeover hard fork. These are only the people who are pissed off enough to vent their frustration publicly. Which is far from being trivial. To do this, they had to understand the complicated procedure of Bitcoinocracy voting, get their bitcoins out of cold storage and then use the keys to sign the appropriate message. No doubt, there are MANY more people who feel the same but just are not so adamant or technically skilled to complete this procedure.

However, it requires no such skill to move your BTC to exchanges and sell them. Given that BTCUSD trade volume is in tens of thousands of BTC daily, even disbalance of tens of thousands BTC added to the sell side may crash the price quite significantly.

I think that if you are sure that "I just don't get it" I am sure that you not only don't get nothing (much more than me) but even that don't understand what I have write. And that the only thing that you can get and sold as true about everything is only that is true only in your head.

1. Why told you that are more than them signed that pool the people who want to sell in this case? And even with big letters. Have you counted all them in the dream wondered a night ago? Or have hear the discussion had with her girlfriend your best friend and he is well informed about this "fact"?

2. You tell: "No doubt, there are MANY more people who feel the same but just are not so adamant or technically skilled to complete this procedure." From what kind of facts become this your full, unassailable, arrogant sureness, explained with big letters (because I am not capable to understand it with little letters)? Have you again "seen" those in the above dream or on another made one night ago?

3. You must understand that I get only the facts and nothing else. And I speak or write only based on those and not using your above sources. I get that when the number of the people who will want to sell their bitcoins will arrive at that amount get by you in your dreams I will make another post using the words that I will want to write after the get of THE FACTS I WILL HAVE IN FRONT OF MY EYES.

4. Why have quoted only part of my post and not all? Maybe because have not get all that was write there. Read it again and again (but not less that 1 thousand times because I get that if you will read it less, you again will not be able to get the everything needed to make a normal comment) and will get some things that make without sense some of your "gets" of my post commented in your post.

Dude. I would like to respond to your (no doubt, well thought through) arguments. I really would. There is just one tiny little problem - I don't speak Gibberish... So, unless someone translates your post into normal language, we're out of luck here.

Ha, Ha, The classical and not the first Big Professor who make the figure of the idiot (I cannot make the bad figure using this word because the poster will not understand it grace of my used Gibberish language not known by him) in this forum choosing this "extremely intelligent" way to go away from the essence and to "evaluate" the language. Giving even his verdict about my luck here.

Behh, as about for the last his decision about my luck here for sure I will remain about one month without sleep. Time in which probably the non-core hard fork will wins and all the major bitcoiners of this world will sell their bitcoins. Which will be bought by them who own 1-2 bitcoin. Anyhow the sell will happen. Is told by the Big Connoisseur and this will (may) cause the crash of the price of bitcoin according to his previous post. Make me laugh more the "don't get" of him of the Giberish language used by me. Problem that impede him to answer to my post.

But wait a minute.  ???  ???  :o  :o

The Big professor tell: "I would like to respond to your (no doubt, well thought through) arguments. I really would."

Then continue: There is just one tiny little problem - I don't speak Gibberish.

My little daughter, who very often stay close to me when I passe the time reading and making various posts in Gibberish here at bitcointalk (and who speak fluently Gibberish and English) ask to me:

I read this post and don't understand how is possible that the poster of this post don't understand Gibberish but know that in your post (made in Gibberish according to him) there are no doubt, well thought through arguments.

The only answer that I gave to my daughter was: I don't know this my dear, I am out of look here. Maybe can be explained in the next reply by the not connoisseur of Gibberish language. Maybe him, to achieve this mission impossible (according to him), have used the same alien technological strategy used when have founded FOR SURE that all the major bitcoiners of the world will sell all their bitcoins (and my interpretation is that can be bought by those who own 1-2 bitcoin) if non-core hard fork wins.

I am sure that using the same above alien technology the Big Professor will understand the needed important things from my above Gibberish (the needed enough things) and will give his solid, full of language arguments, indisputable, surprising and first of all idiot answer. Which will be much more "geted" than the previous one.

Go ahead with your pearls of the nest time Big Professor. I am ready for the next reply to you. I am sure that you will do some other idiocy who will make me laugh even more than this time.

And the last thing. It is better to know English and Gibberish languages like me (who understand perfectly your posts and your "intellectual" level from those) than only the English one (like you) and play the figure of the idiot hoping to skip with this role your ignorance and the inability to be strong man and to accept your written bullshits when are argued to be so (as you told in your post).

I dig your passion but you could do with laying off the google translate a little bit. It's kinda hard to read sometimes.

First don't forget that I speak only Gibberish. So is hard or at all possible for a English Man to understand what I write. But I have a privileged anonymous communication channel with Satoshi Nakamoto. He told me always: leave the English, have no future. You must concentrate to the Gibberish. See me. Me, with my Gibberish, was able to invent bitcoin. If I would have been use the English language with or without google translate, will become perfect in this language and wouldn't be able to create the first successful product which is the reason of the existence of this forum, of this thread and that prove that the terrific technology in which "he" is based can change radically the world because can be applied.

Second, who was that bastard who obligated you to read this posts in Gibberish? Forcing you to do something against your will. Give me his nick and will do another post for him (always in Gibberish) with "well thought arguments" about the being dictator in an forum where the free word is the King of it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against non-native speakers of English. Far from being an arrogant "English Man", I'm non-native speaker myself. But unclear and confused jumble of words that you are producing here does not help to strengthen your case.

I don't care who are you and what do you think. You are nothing for me. I only answer to your words. And to make you know I am pro the core-team if they do that what have promised. But your posts shows that you are racist, slyboots and idiot. I am showing with my "confused jumble of words" facts about your bullshits while you are giving important conclusions only using words or "confused jumble of words". And so is even with this above post which is a totally stupid one. And here the fact: If you cannot understand my Gibberish language how is possible that I am telling, or better writing, "confused jumble of words"? Then, if you used google translate to understand my Gibberish language, can you use it again to tell one, ONLY ONE, "confused jumble of words" written by me in one post? Will be able to do so? I can tell FOR SURE NOT. Then I challenge you telling that you have (intellectually) only the capacity of a 5 years old boy and as such are unable to understand even one sentence written by me in all my posts with my Gibberish language (always with the help of google translate). If you are not such, you must give arguments and facts about your idiocies told about me and my words, written in every post you made.

What? Racist? What race you even are, Martian?  :o

 ::)  Got you finally. But where is the point here? Where is the connection with everything told above? Where are the facts about my "confused jumble of words" which are harming in a deadly way my big extraordinary case. Doing stale "mot" is you major strength and ability to argues your big thoughts and your big extremely scientific pools from what can be told for sure that 12 million bitcoins owned by 1000 people will be bought by other 3-5 000 000 others who don't own more than 1 bitcoin each? Or jumping from one "fork" to another is a very (or even the most) intelligent way to face a situation in which you and your intellect are compared to the mind of a 5 year old boy? Or think that I am struggling my mind to do long post in order to make you feel bad?

I am telling to you a secret (for sure you will be able to "get" it - not like me that don't "get" nothing from what you explain about your alien - not martian because in this case I would have knowledge - technologies of research). I am doing this because you are helping me very much and I am a grateful person. I am part of a signature campaign and must do a quantity of posts to have my weekly amount to give to my daughters in order that they known and be interested about bitcoin. But it is hard to find always new threads or possibilities to make new posts and to not repeat yourself. This funny "conversation" with you is saving me. Because first I can do always new post and this make me to not repeat myself (you are surprising in your way of thinking that your "intelligent" short or a little less short - that's all you capacity of doing posts - stupidities or "mots" can made angry the other part), second, I can find without getting tired possibility to make my needed number of posts and third (this is the most important) have fun reading your "posts" and telling your case to my friends. So until I will have need to do posts and will want to have fun will continue. When both these things will be ended i will leave you (for this week) in your wonderland. Then maybe begin again the next one. You will have always "pearls" to tell here. I have fixed your nick and your profile to my bookmarks. So I can find you in every moment and do a new post for the week in which will be.

As for the long posts, I must made those acceptable to be paid. So must be a little long. But, more long those are and more fun I feel. Cannot be stopped writing about you. Give always new incentives. But only in the time of fun or the needed to do post. Because on the other time must make even work to maintain my family.  ;)

As I can see you are "getting" something from my Gibberish. It is a pleasure for me seeing someone of your weight be interested about my language. If you will continue in this way you are in the good way in making yourself a 6 year old boy.

Of course you do. 

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w513/chuck-u-farley1/tin-foil-hat.jpg

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