Bitcoin Forum

According to what one of the goals of bitcoin should be - decentralize also the wealth, do you think that's happening?

Maybe based on breaking some threashold by price, marked cap or account number ?

I'd do that :-)

Satoshi has unfortunatly disappeared from the circulation, so he won't be able to do so.

I see no reason why he might be back just for that particular reason (and also for fixing scalability) ....

Furhter he might have coded sth (some external wallet script) just to do automatically?

No I don't think something has been coded to process this automatically. If something like that ever happen it will happen here, on Bitcointalk.

Where did you get that idea from?


Why wait? You can give to the poor now.

where you assume that satoshi disappear?

Where have you read that? Or it's just an idea... nice idea though

this would be great, but think that anyone of us can help people sending some satoshi, of course satoshi have a lot of money, but in my opion he is dead or maybe he lost his private keys ;D

recent analysis show that satoshi might hold a considerable less amount of coin, around only 200k

the 1M coins was an overestimation, so your idea might have a less impact

there is going to be a lot of problems with that.

i am assuming you are talking about satoshi spreading his "bitcoins" among poor people and not "cash". in that case it is going to wreck the market and the price of bitcoin is going to fall so hard, making bitcoin nearly worthless.

why? because those people can not do anything with the bitcoins they receive, like paying rent, buying necessary stuff for their living, etc so they would convert those bitcoins they have received for free to fiat, in other words a massive amounts of sell orders on the market (supply) which will push the price down to oblivion!

The idea of giving away bitcoin to mass to make the rich is the most dumbest I have ever heard.You will only devaluate bitcoin making it useless

Hm - just depends on HOW (I could think of very clever logics here, despite I'm not Satoshi) it's done - and I guess price reaction will be short termed and could also be part of the logic to e.g. REMOVE some volatility...

BTC are not free coupons or free money. Anyone of us earned them one way or another in different ways and I think that's okay. Nothing like this should ever be free, it needs to be earned. That is the way of having a fair distribution.

the magnitude of the effect on price would depend on the amount spread which you have in mind. but how many poor are we talking about or how much bitcoin per person?

the only possible way that can be good and effective in my opinion is donation to a "charitable organization". i have seen a couple of them in DogeCoin community but never seen any in btc.

I'm just trying to really think decentral - so an 'organization' is only good, if it's on the very low level, say a leader of a very small group / village in e.g. Bangladesh or so - because that 'small' guy feels really responsible for his few poor people next door and no overhead costs are spent at all.

I think more charities should accept Bitcoin donations so the image of the crypto currency will be connected to good causes and generosity of people. Personally I am more inclined to donate in Bitcoins than in dollars.

It just came into my mind since I think of how to make bitcoin decentral in ALL ways, not just mining, node running, accepting,.. - but also holding and sharing the wealth more equally. (Hope I lost nobody here)

So what is needed to accomplish ALL that together is always a big bunch of money. (If lost, got you back here..)

Next step is to look for what thing and who created it came most closest to that ALL ?

> Bitcoin & Satoshi

Ok - who might have the money to do final missing step ?

> <easy>

nice idea... however I'm not 100% sure that's the scope those are not spent yet... we don't really know who Satoshi is

Interesting idea, really :)
But, before you decentralize the wealth, you have to decentralize knowledge, technology, provide some normal living conditions to everybody, give education etc.
It's really huge task and I don't think that bitcoin community or even Satoshi can do this.
It's responsibility of others, offline community first.

I want to see an 'open network' popping up  containing the most down level group leader (proof?) /  real people on it - and their btc address -
I'd just start giving them donations.

Anybody have seen that already ?

-> Having that in the global news .... big 'image-up' thing!

 

Thanks - but normally  I found out  ,for most of my ideas, already somebody else had the same before me   .... I hope I'm really late with that idea again and all was nicely planned long time ago  :-)

That is of course great for someone to say who doesn't have over 500k Bitcoins or probably even much at stake. Lets look at the facts shall we? You drop 500+k Bitcoins on the poor then my last few years investing taking risks and saving will be for nothing because the price will be destroyed for both us and the poor.

I am not saying don't help the poor because they need it but how about many give some profits and give the poor the tools to help themselves. The wealth of Bitcoin is obviously in fewer hands than preferable but that is the way of the world, the smart will always end up with more because a lot of the time they work for it.

That's a nice idea and it really would have been something if that was a secret plan with some super secret code but it is highly unlikely.

so they can cash out and crash the price? i dont think so

I like the idea of rar events - read anti fragile from Nassim Taleb.

i think it is a great idea and also a grand gesture by satoshi.

but i don't think that now is the time to do it. because as others have pointed out bitcoin market is so fragile and if the movement as big as satoshi's coin movement occurs it is going to create mass panic on top of the sell pressure it creates.
the time is in a couple of years that market is more stable and bitcoin is adopted by more businesses.

I'm not thinking of a very plump dump. And yes I was educated same - first work - than pleasure - but I live in a rich env.

But think of the very poorest first (extrem thinking is good). They mostly do not have any 'work' - and normally very poor currency & economic env.
But now with access to internet, they can get a 'start - up' investment for their local (and also global) economy and have a more stable
currency than the local one -> I do not think all is cashed out at once, but rather it will be used as money and you'll see the opposite.

So ideally it should be donated to a handful of regional tribe chaps in order to initiate local usage - not cash out (do not expect an exchange as well).

Terrible idea - the coins would immediately be converted to fiat and the price would crash.

Would be MUCH better to just destroy the coins by sending them to an address with no known private key. That would benefit the whole community not some random group of "lotto winners". Think about it - why should some random group who have made ZERO investment in BTC benefit from the technology?

Or maybe one day he just "airdrops" his 1 million bitcoins onto all the exchanges, selling them to the "poor" bag holders with buy orders as the price crashes to zero  ;D

Yes - brilliant minded like Satoshi  would exactly do this .....

It always amazes me how people give away other people's money so easily.

It's the give a person a fish vs teaching them to fish argument.

nah, can't see him do such a thing assuming he still has access to his coins. i also wouldn't do it. i hope at some point he can nicely enjoy the value of his coins with some hot girls. 8)

Very good bringing up that fish here! I remember some part in the Bible where Jesus gave us some fish for free (correct me if I'm wrong).

But that was only more the hook to get us to believe (worked not bad).

So turn that into Satoshi  & Bitcoin and you need no more help...

 

hihi - if those girls are belonging to the poorest and get children & wallets - go ahead!

Well it would go down as one of the greatest long con scams in history. Brilliant part is it'd be perfectly legal.

It ended with execution...

Sure - Jesus 'went' away - and suprisingly came back, convincing the skeptic ...

It would be good if something like that happened, but I see a problem: people who are really poor do not own an smartphone or any other means to get their BTC in. In fact, if they get say 1BTC each, that would barely pay the smartphone costs.

this is a great idea but satoshi have left bitcoin long time ago and we have no way of knowing if he even has the private keys to his massive stash of bitcoin.

It doesn't matter what you're thinking but matters what will happen. If possible they will dump the Bitcoins into oblivion, why? Because they could not care less about it all they want is food/water etc. I'm sorry to burst your slightly delusional bubble but it is never going to create a stable currency because the currency is manipulated to begin with added to the frenzy of trying to dump to get the foods to survive it will be crazy and the opposite to stable pal.

Again of course they will cash out immediately it would be naive to think any different. Decentralized but donated to the few? That statement is to contradicting as it is clearly centralizing it into a few hands instead of the many. Corruption is extreme in the countries you speak of in case you never knew.

Did he ever say anything about decentralising wealth? That's pie in the sky stuff and impossible to achieve unless he was reprogramming human nature too. Decentralising money might be achievable but that's not going to stop exploitation or people who are hungrier than others rising to the top. What he was aiming to do was take the nefarious actors out of money's creation.

Ok, let's say that one day Satoshi comes back. There's unsisputale proof that this time it's truly him and that he's in possession of hundreds of millions in BTC. What would be the criteria to airdrop bitcoins to the poor? Among the millions of people living in poverty, what would be the effect of this? I think it'd be a drop in the ocean in terms of helping solve poverty and it'd likely even damage bitcoin as all of a sudden there would be a ton of people looking to sell bitcoins.

Another interesting concept would be the one described in this video though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6gxpWPMpws

How could they cash out, they are far from having a bank account. Only thing they really need is a smart phone + wallet.
And I hear even the poor just have that.

Partly agreed. There was a good point made upthread about education, that should be part of the airdrop as well. But that comes partly along due installing a wallet. So the BTC is the incentive here.

Again - I do not expect bank accounts for cashing out here in masses. And the lowest level chaps normally feel rather responsible for their own people to help survive first, later corruption might come into place.

Thanks, have never seen before.

This will end up in giving a single winner all ?

Then I also would expect a big price drop....

As soon as this happens and people get the ability to spend it, the wealth would very quickly accumulate to the hands of few again.

Unfortunately this is how human nature is. The many find ways to give their little wealth to the few who already own a lot.

This is ofcourse, assuming that there is a way to fairly distribute a part of the coins to an individual instead of a lot of coins to one individual who is good at creating multiple identities for claiming.

Imo, the best that can happen is that the coins never move again.

I like the pie in the sky stuff.  I think that Satoshi did indeed create something that could decentralize wealth and help people in the third world come out of the shadows of poverty.  I like to think a woman making rugs in Peru could sell her rugs and accept a global currency to be on the same playing field as merchants around the world.  Humans will naturally reprogram themselves and we can move into a new money consciousness where all can play.

I saw an article on Vice a few weeks ago about a couple alt coins that advocates called "Basic Income Advocates" propose that everyone around the world can receive a "basic income" from these coins.  Check it out, pretty interesting.

It's open to question. After all, it's just a concept. With the buzz it'd create it sounds rather positive for bitcoin.

Ok - could we agree on those: Doing the buzz of that video - big hype.
But than - 1% to the winner + 99% airdrop to the poor  :)

Uuups - sorry winner -  but we win all !

Poor people may have smart phone but do you thing they know how to use all of its function and also what about their accessibility to internet?
Even lots of ngos and ingos donating millions of fund to poor people from the decades haven't changed life of those poor so i don't think it is some interesting necessary concept.

I think what the first poster was talking about was that somehow bitcoin would redistribute wealth. That's pie in the sky. What isn't is that it gives people everywhere the chance to create wealth with less obstruction.

when i read the topic i though satoshi has moved his coins, that was scary :)

Socialist fantasy... :D

It won't happen, poor people need to work theirselves out of poverty, that is how you climb up the ladders of wealth.

With hard work and opportunity.

Yes, that's right.  How do the poor (at least the stupid ones) actually turn their BTC into anything of benefit to them?

And then if they just spend their newly arrived BTC on something, how does that improve their lives over the long-run?

The poor will always be with us.  NorrisK has it right: should all wealth be "distributed equally", 10 years later (or less), the wealth would again be concentrated into the same hands, more-or-less, as now.

RealBitcoin is aware of this too.  Work, especially intelligent work, is the route out of poverty.

Poverty are not eliminated by throwing money at the problem. I always come back to the saying.... If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.. if you teach him how

to fish, you feed him for life. I think Satoshi's goal with this, might have been to give people the tool, to reduce poverty. In most countries people are to poor to open

bank accounts... banks are simply not interested in doing business with poor people. Bitcoin enable people to open their own bank accounts for free and it has virtually

zero fees. This will open doors for them, that was previously shut for them or might have been too expensive. 

If Satoshi gave away 1M btc or any amount for that matter to the actual poor they would be sold for cash fairly quickly. Studies show (like new housing projects for example) just giving things away when no personal sacrifice is made leads to abuse, waste and returning to square one.

BTC for work, time, charity perhaps but just give to the poor straight off, no.

Secondly the poor will always be among us. It does not mean do not help the poor eat and have shelter but giving away btc, no.

I don't see how Bitcoin itself would be a tool to reduce poverty? I mean, you'd need a pretty big initial investment to be profitable mining and you won't get any free bitcoins anywhere.

In terms of 'do work' - I fully agree (read upthread)
I also agree in terms of give away the pure fish / money - that never helps isolated.
Further I also agree, that there is minimum required:  smartphone...

But let's think in more dimensions - that's what internet and Bitcoin are to me - they now get a chance to finally do some learning & work (due to information & money). This new stufff might be the ONLY infrastructure they will ever have and let them do work & come out of the sh..t.

Well, the thought of that does sound indeed interesting. Not to mention charitable. I feel as though Satoshi could come back to Bitcoin any time now. I do believe he was staying out of the public eye to just focus on himself, which is perfectly fine. I do not have much of an issue with people trying to recover from fame or an excessive amount of fortune and success.

If he does still have the access to those 1 million BTC it would be very interesting... If he airdrops it that would be even greater, however the price will drop since the poor people will be looking to by food/shelter etc., and they'll try to dump the coins as fast as possible  :-\

Price - read upthread.


Does that formulars down hold ?



Distribute Information = INTERNET

Distribute Money = BITCOIN

Distribute Weatlh = work(INTERNET, BITCOIN)

Fun = ?

Bitcoin like any other money might be given for free to the poor, that's a normal thing, we should help each other. But no way this practic should prevail over earning Bitcoins because this would be the end of it.

One of the issues it would be how to teach the poor people to use BTC... I mean its' not as easy as having real cash anyway

I see it this way, as many states, countries or whatsoever what we have in this world, this is how many cryptocurrencies we should have and btc will be a link between. What will people choose as their main currency will be define by their current state.

... "venturing into more complex ideas" ...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2228.msg29479#msg29479

yes i'm agree with that,introducing bitcoin to general or rich people is not easy and wasting time,how about poor people?its tottaly more hard i think,but if we give them giveaway first,its not too hard,have somebody try it?

So after all premine is 1.05%?
I thought that alts with 1% premine are bad!?
How we can believe in bitcoin if someone with nickname Satoshi has almost 1 % of all coins and more than 2% of all mined till now?
Or i missing something?

it's not a premine, since 1) no one knew about bitcoin before, and two it was for supporting the network

you can not compare to altcoin, because altcoin are announced to a greater user base from the beginning

Let's put all Bitcoins in one pot and when someone needs he can simply take some out.
Based on trust  ;D

But the poor though doesn't have Internet, mobile phones and laptops to make some use out of bitcoin.

The first guy at lowest level in a small village, feeling really responsible for his folks due to skin in the game - might have that - that's your man.

The satoshi bitcoins are out of the circulation now in a way, he/she is not active and the coins in these addresses are most likely out forever, also if they were given to people then the overall price will decrease "if you look at it like that"

Right.

OP, I think you misunderstand what Bitcoin is about as far as "Decentralize the wealth".

What exactly are we decentralizing?

Bitcoin decentralizes the trust and decentralizes the creation of money,
but it was never intended to redistribute wealth.

I can agree if 'intended' means = not written down.

I came to this because

A: He called me up

B: I was reading between the lines

C: Does not matter

Find consensus herein....

 
Proof is in the pudding.

If Satoshi wants to distribute his 1M BTC
he will.

If he doesn't want to, he won't.
 

Statistics are showing that the poor are accessing the internet mostly on their phones now.  They can purchase prepaid smartphones now for 50-100.  I volunteer at a homeless shelter and the majority of people transitioning into housing with minimum wage jobs get all of their internet access through their phone. 

If you google it you can see that those making under 30k a year are twice as likely to use their phone for banking, locating jobs, and other necessities.

Also, I noticed that the people at the homeless/transitional housing shelter are quite good with their phones and know what they are doing.

It will be possible for the poor to access and understand Bitcoin.

I am into Bitcoin #1 for the possibilities for banking the unbanked all over the world - this is due to my 20 years of working with the poor.  I own my right to be idealistic  :)

Finally some bright lights out there....  :)

I live in middle-EU and we see now lots refugees coming in - many have mobiles. So next poor guy I see gets a wallet & some statoshis :-)

OK, let us imagine. Satoshi makes a come back and distribute his hoarding to poor or to people based on some criteria.
What will happen next.
People will convert it into fiat. So, dumping will be the result.

Satoshi will not prefer dumping to happen.

i doubt anyone has access to these coins, I think these coins are already out of the circulation and only number in the network with no actual person having access to them still, this means every other bitcoin is more valuable though since less Bitcoins are in circulation.

Not for nothing, but when one of these scammers from Africa, say, gets some coin I always get a sense that some wealth has been redistributed for better or worse.  That's one of the things I really, really like about bitcoin--it's global, and if I wanted to help someone out in a part of the world where 500K satoshi is a significant sum, I'm very rapidly able to do so.  And those folks are able to earn money through sig campaigns and so forth.  It's a good thing, no airdropping involved.

that would be a great blow at this point. NOw that the topic of centralization is starting to haunt the community that would be the perfect decentralization act :)

This idea will fetch a good name to bitcoin ecosystem and community as it would hit media and gear up as an effective promotion. But finding poor or setting up criteria for deserved people are more challenging in the case of, Satoshi accepts this is a good idea.

I don't care for those coins if they are premine or not, one is certain someone have access to these addresses. Will he become a richest man on earth one day or he will airdrop his coins..Who can tell?

Sometimes its best to remain quite and let others think you are an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.


Gambling addicts go to casinos, not Bitcoin forums. Ad campaign fail.

Everyone with an add campaign tag is now ignored. I will be making a special post asking other readers to do the same. This way all your  mental masturbation ad campaign garbage will be invisible and this public forum which you are abusing for private gain will actually be useful again. Right now its chock full of garbage can opinions from selfish ad campaigners with nothing good to say.

Really I think you could earn more washing dishes at a restaurant and actually, ya know, contribute to society.

Well it is an intriguing idea. I for one don't think handing out money to people is a good thing to do. People in need as in charities that could work, but just "poor" people? for doing nothing? You can at least hire them to do something for Bitcoin if that was the case, something very easy and almost symbolic but something.

Great idea - unemployment problems are caused mainly by insufficient private capital in the economy circulation. If some poor people would be asked to do some work for BTC they could gain also some experience. It also doesn't have to be 100% economically justified :)

Seems I was pretty on spot here

Happy days
:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJmePpSxImk

In your fevered delusions, maybe.  None of the coins widely believed to be satoshi's will move.  The only bitcoins that have any chance of movement are the ones faketoshi made recently by selling his crappy forkcoin to a bunch of gullible halfwits like you.

and its not a sustainable venture.
what poor people need in the long term is education and employment opportunities.

A financial hand out will only be temporary, those people will only have to spend (if they can)
what they hypothetically get for essentials (or not), eventually they would end up in the
same position as they started.

How would Satoshi deem somebody poor?
or how would somebody have to prove they were poor?

Analysis shows that Satoshi might be hodling a very considerably less amount of bitcoin which might be at around 200k, so where is the 1m coming from, is he going to buy them of the market, from which exchange and with what wallet?

Moreso, I don't think Satoshi is still very much around us, he's vanished into the thin air.

The idea of Bitcoin has never been to be ‘free money’ or say, coupons. Would have been great if it was but then, it won’t be Bitcoin again. It just has to be earned. Through different ways.

Fortune should be earned through hard work. Many people consider early holders of Bitcoin lucky, but they've also done a lot of research to make those decision.
Charity is one thing, but to give BTC directly away is another. Bitcoin is supposed to be about fair redistribution of wealth.

FTFY.

There is nothing to support the notion that Bitcoin was ever intended to achieve equal distribution of wealth.  Many would argue you can't even do that without resorting to tyranny and Bitcoin certainly isn't about that. 

So let us assume that Satoshi Nakamoto is still here in the forum, and talking with us, how exactly do you think he will be able to find out those who are poor among us? Seriously there are lots of people who would be disguising as poor just to receive the money from him. Unless he would maybe go out there into the world and start looking for the homeless people and giving them free Bitcoin, and that would be it.

But, if you are just going to say dropping millions of Bitcoin online, most of the poor people we have today are not even online. If you are able to buy Internet access, then I guess you’re at least living fine to an extent. But your idea is still a good idea, and it’s not bad if he should decide that he’s going to do it.

Satoshi is active only one a Slack, confirmed no airdrop. Watch out, I wonder if Centbee will play a role