Bitcoin Forum

An advisor to Russian president Vladimir Putin has reportedly spoken out about bitcoin, going as far to suggest that taking payments in the digital currency is a criminal act.

From coindesk : http://www.coindesk.com/receiving-bitcoin-payments-is-a-crime-says-russian-presidential-advisor/

It's not that good for Bitcoin , is it ?

This is not the first time Russia has made these innuendos about Bitcoin.  Probably nothing will happen here and it is just another attack on Bitcoin.

I think those so called intelligent advisor don't know anything about digital currency, they themselves promote criminal activity and money laundring and put all the blame to innovative technology like bitcoin.

You really want all hands above the table,so you can know who has what. Putin needs to be able to reach out and touch so to speak and does not want people funneling money out to say the U.K. Making Bitcoin a potential issue would stave off a few people from investing to heavily,but not the lower end. Think they just want the rich folks to be more above board.

Well no, crime, with possible JAIL TIME.

"Bitcoin is not the first one, there are other settlement means. Accepting bitcoin as a payment for anything is unacceptable because it is a crime."" (http://www.coindesk.com/receiving-bitcoin-payments-is-a-crime-says-russian-presidential-advisor/)

So does facilitating access to pirated content in certain countries, something this newly appointed Internet advisor did even after he was appointed and only stopped doing so when this was discovered, transferring his torrent websites to his son. Someone is either paid really well or not aware of laws, copyright or what's normally considered to be accepted or not.


Interesting.


So are the streets of Russia and everywhere else in the world. Control criminal activities outside the internet, and criminals using the Internet will not exist...

These statements are wrong on so many levels... I question myself if these advisors are paid to indeed advise and speak about what they think or if they're just paid to appear on media and transmit what President Putin/the Russian government thinks.

Are you suggesting there might be bias, nepotism and corruption? In Putin's Russia?!

No, I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just presenting facts that I've read on the press and my thoughts on those ;)

alot of bad translating from people..

especially 'ahpku' who linked in CCN news..
where CCN news linked in a russian media website. who interviewed a lawyer (not the finance commission itself). who just stated an opinion and not real fact about current situation.

so when a crypto news title say bitcoin is banned because of A, and crypto news quotes B(instead). links C(as a false reference) which is just an opinion of D, where in all three websites there is nothing that categorically says A is in law.. you have to accept that alot of people have racist hate against russia and exaggerate things to try keeping bitcoin in the western world.

so people.. try searching the actual Bills next time..

otherwise you might aswell be watching fox news who quotes the BBC news who quotes the CNN news, but never does any actual real investigations

he can say what he want, the true is that no one cna stop bitcoin, who is using bitcoin right now in russi will keep using it, the other that did not know about bitcoin will remain as outsiders to bitcoin

also as i said, you don't need every country to accept bitcoin, in the world, to reach adoption

Ahpku is a native Russian speaker, care to point him to the translations you find particularly bad?

Possibly not everyone in Russia currently using Bitcoin is willing to be a criminal & risk jail time.
Not ready to concede that Bitcoin is the currency of criminals :-\

puting dont care about future so he thinks that its a crime but it isint.

lesson one, read the draft Bill. not the CCN news,
lesson two. click the references of CCN and you will see that it is a quote of a quote of someone not even writing the draft bill.. but is an 'expert' on the subject

if you read the draft bill. it highlights that people who are not registered as money issuers will get fined.

Apparently, English is not your native tongue either. I'll repeat and rephrase: Which part of which translation do you find lacking? Please quote original Russian text and its inaccurate translation.
Thanx

ignore media.. go straight to source
draft bill (http://asozd2c.duma.gov.ru/addwork/scans.nsf/ID/361FFC984B318CA543257F1F004A10C2/$FILE/957581-6_18122015_957581-6.pdf)


ill highlight some words in english that some people seem to gloss over
malevolent issuance = unregistered money exchange business
simplified identification = registering as a money exchange business

aww shiz. At least i hope this will not adapt in Europe. I mean, it gets taxed same as cash when you pay with it, so why should it be banned?

What is your native language, so I can learn it & try to communicate with you?

i am british, i just have a better understanding of languages compared to google translate.

plus i treat every word as important and not gloss over words.. unlike CCN and other media who love to twist the story to get more viewers

I am Russian. Muscovite, born & bred. Now either point me to the inaccuracies, or stop spreading misinformation.
thnx

---

---

Time passes.
Still waiting.
My pdf reader refuses to search cyrillics, and the document in your link is over 1,600 pages long.
halp plox!

Not cool...
But I just don't understand why!
Why is Russia trying to fight bitcoin? It's not like it was a threat for it.

It's not interesting for the government to fight it.

ok ill use google and then translate from computer to real english
draft bill

if not registered as a money businesss, under the rules of the russian federation


you wont get a prison sentance but instead a fine of...


$250/£175 to $500/£350 if you are an individual exchanger


£450 to £630 if you are a small business exchanger

and it goes on and on but here is parts people gloss over

its worth reading the source documentation. sometimes best to read it in a quiet space where you got time to take in the information and maybe even read it a few times incase you skip critical parts

its not a direct attack on bitcoin.. its an attack on unregistered exchanges.. lots of non bitcoin related (unregistered) money businesses can be affected.
the term is money surrogates.. which isnt limited to bitcoin.

its the crypto media that are spinning the news as clickbait.

...

What I find interesting about the Russian government's distaste for Bitcoin is the matter of Putin being the world's richest man!  I do not have a handy reference to pass along, but I have read a couple of accounts over the past several weeks of the huge amount of money he has apparently made (scammed, stolen) in the ultra-corrupt Russia of today.

Putin as a Russian patriot, my ass.  The people running Russia are at least as corrupt as anywhere else (probably more so), I write as an American well aware of our corruption here.

Russia's government does not want anyone else competing with them, nor to make it easy for Russian citizens to protect their own money as they may choose.

What are you translating? Surely not the 1605 page .pdf you linked me to?
Source (link) plz

@OROBTC, of course Russian government is corrupt. You didn't just discover this today, did you?

Oh ok.

But that means if I use btc as a business but register the exchanges and pay the taxes, I won't have any problem no? Cause in this case it's just very similar to anything existing anywhere in the world!

Russian? Use google.
https://bitpress.ru/2016/02/06/rossijskim-bitkoin-polzovatelyam-grozit-shtraf-v-0-5-mln-rublej-ili-zaklyuchenie-v-tyurmu/
B пocлeднeм oтчeтe издaния пpaвитeльcтвa PФ «Poccийcкaя гaзeтa» cooбщaeтcя, чтo Mинфин пpeдлoжил внecти пoпpaвки в Угoлoвный кoдeкc cтpaны, coглacнo кoтopым лицa, пpичacтныe к выпycкy кpиптoвaлют, бyдyт «oштpaфoвaны нa cyммy в пoлмиллиoнa pyблeй или пpигoвopeны к иcпpaвитeльным paбoтaм нa cpoк дo двyx лeт».

Russia have been jumping around this issue, like a rabbit on a hot plate. The one moment you hear it is banned and the next moment it's legal but you

cannot exchange it to fiat. I think they want to follow the same route with this, than what is happening in the rest of Europe. They want to force people

to use regulated exchanges... this way they can track all money going in and out of Russia. It is about control, not banning Bitcoin.  :(

bitpress.. lol try reading the actual legislation draft rather than the media clickbaits. you will learn more if you go to source, i even handed you the link

by the way the 4-5million ruble.. is not a fine for citizens, its not a fine for businesses, its not a fine for government representatives..

its a fine for legal entities who do not register as a money business. basically if your a corrupt lawyer who dos not follow the law by registering the exchange, you are worse than a business or a individual who may not know better. and thus those who are well versed in law should be punished more so than others. for flouting the law(by not registering)

You handed me a link to a 1605 page PDF. My PDF reader refuses to search Cyrillics. That's like pointing me to the library and telling me to "look there."  What page are we talking about?

And why would Bitcoin press lie to us? I mean *ALL BITCOIN PRESS,* in Russian, in English, probably in Turkish too, lying like a fucking rug? Only Franky1 knows the truth, they haven't shut him up yet. He don't speak a word of Russian, mind you, but he's a frikin' wiz with Google Translate ::)

Russia has always been so harsh towards bitcoins. Making it a criminal offense in one country doesn't make it illegal in the rest of the world (I hope my country doesn't take this as an example and ban bitcoins.) I don't know if this would affect bitcoins in a negative way but the more countries banning bitcoins would definitely affect the crypto currency.

Instead of banning it, couldn't they find a way to regulate the currency?

Well no I'm not Russian. Gonna be honest I didn't understand one single word of what you just wrote xD

Anyway I'm not sure it'll have a strong impact whatsover. Most btc businesses are online!

Russia is not in the best of shapes right now, it doesn't have time to properly regulate a coin with users who bait it with, basically, "nya nya, you can't stop us, we's antifragile, what'ch'a gonna do, huh?"
Think about it.

@Laosai, then WTF are you talking about here: "But that means if I use btc as a business but register the exchanges and pay the taxes, I won't have any problem no?"

so its my fault you have a crap PDF reader.

sorry but if you want the truth then download a different PDF reader.

read the document.. hey ill help you out. skip to section 30

and by the way, i thought u were russian, so why need to convert it from russian if you can read russian..

how about read the source first and complain later

Because I'm not going to read through 1605 (sixteen-hundred-and-five) pages? Are you doing OK, buddy?
So you're telling me that *ALL BITCOIN PRESS,* in Russian, in English, probably in Turkish too, lying like a fucking rug?
Only you are right, correct, you intrepid sleuth you?

Oh, the "I"?

I don't know, I just wrote it like that sorry if that was confusing xD

I was placing myself as the owner of a business to describe the situation and be sure to understand it well that's all! But I'm not directly concerned by this.

Thanks for your answer anyway.

^NP. I was worried that you were Russian, took advice from this forum, took it srsly, and consequently got to be Jenechka's baitch for a couple of years.

now you dont have to read all 1605 pages

says the guy that wants to avoid reading the legal document and instead take bitcoin motivated clickbait press at their word.. where most articles are copy and paste jobs and no real investigation or understanding is put into the clickbait articles.

kind of funny that he believes the word "money surrogates" is a direct attack on ust bitcoin .. not realising the actual bill is about getting money businesses to register to stay within the law, which could as a side effect affect some dodgy exchanges that dont want o register. which as a side effect could cause some of those dodgy exchanges who also touch bitcoin to be affected.

but dont take my word for it.. read the actual Bill.. its all there right from the horses mouth, without any clickbait exaggerations

Just read it, have you noticed the date? :D
http://s11.postimg.org/j1xtu0mwj/Capture.png

The cited article: http://www.coindesk.com/receiving-bitcoin-payments-is-a-crime-says-russian-presidential-advisor/
"An advisor to Russian president Vladimir Putin has reportedly spoken out about bitcoin, going as far to suggest that taking payments in the digital currency is a criminal act.

Recently appointed Internet advisor German Klimenko told Russian-language online news service Lenta.ru that the acceptance of bitcoin payments constitutes a crime.

According to a translation by Russian bitcoin news site ForkLog, Klimenko told Lenta.ru:

    "Bitcoin is not the first one, there are other settlement means. Accepting bitcoin as a payment for anything is unacceptable because it is a crime."

Now why are you quoteing an old Duma pdf?

ok you read the first line..

and just so you know the government are reading this draft right now, and no amendments will be made until atleast february 20th. so that version is the most current, relevent and active version available.

now skip to section 30

by the way..
coindesk, talking about Forklog, talking about lenta.ru

so if you can find the actual quote and not coindesk/forlog/lenta stuff.. then you may win one round

I have skipped to section 30, I have skimmed through it. What does it have to do with words spoken a day or two ago? You ok, Friend?

The cited article: http://www.coindesk.com/receiving-bitcoin-payments-is-a-crime-says-russian-presidential-advisor/
"An advisor to Russian president Vladimir Putin has reportedly spoken out about bitcoin, going as far to suggest that taking payments in the digital currency is a criminal act.

Recently appointed Internet advisor German Klimenko told Russian-language online news service Lenta.ru that the acceptance of bitcoin payments constitutes a crime.

According to a translation by Russian bitcoin news site ForkLog, Klimenko told Lenta.ru:

    "Bitcoin is not the first one, there are other settlement means. Accepting bitcoin as a payment for anything is unacceptable because it is a crime."

---

---

News (typically) gets reported within a few days of it happening. If it happened last month? Not news :(

The Russian Government forbids and criminalizes bitcoin every year...

Actually no, it's just being hashed out, pardon the pun :D

so you want to use clickbait as your evidence..
again.. dont give coindesk links or forklog links.. and give the Lenta.ru or even a government news link which meant to be the source of a guy that just arrived in his job 1 month ago, who has not even made a draft himself, or any amendments (as they wont be done before february 20th)

so show me the quote on Lenta.ru which all the clickbait crypto sites have copy and pasted but not directly linked

please show the source, not the mis-interpretted and twisted comment out of context on the clickbait sites.. the actual source please

If oil prices stay down for long, then the Russian Gov't will not have any time or money to focus on Bitcoins, since they will have a major crisis on their hands.

its not bitcoins they are directing it at precisely.. its illegal money exchanges that swap into any currency that is not legal tender (not the ruble) AKA money surrogates, which such new legislation affects a multitude of unregistered businesses that are not bitcoin related, if they dont register also.

but you are right oil (their main income stream) is a bigger threat to their economy..but they o nee to ensure that all of the exchanges into foreign currency are registered and overseen to try to avoid a bank run out of the ruble.

we wont see a true an accurate update to the bill until after february 20th.. so until then its just 'screams and whistles' of noise

Show me one single person, who was prosecuted for this "crime". Don't copypast bullshit "news" which are pulled out of morons ass.

Are you saying that EVERY BITCOIN PUBLICATION IS LYING TO US?

http://www.coindesk.com/receiving-bitcoin-payments-is-a-crime-says-russian-presidential-advisor/
http://forklog.net/putins-internet-counselor-accepting-bitcoin-is-a-crime/
http://themerkle.com/news/putins-adviser/
How is this possible?
Mainstream press hates us, Bitcoin press hates us too? :(

http://s11.postimg.org/t27w19h4j/worstthing.jpg

the actual legal documents say that a individual being an unregistered money broker (like exchanging multiple times on localbitcoins) will only get a fine of 40k ruble ($500)

it is things like a CEO of a bank (legal entity) that is registered to process the ruble but has not declared they are exchanging into 'money surrogates' (not just bitcoin but many other currencies) . that can be fined millions or go to prison for a couple years.

but i do love the clickbait websites that twist stories into 'little immy will get jail if he even touches bitcoin'

What putin fails to see is that he cannot police the world let alone his own country.

if anything this just makes bitcoin more valuable in russia. As it will be traded as contraband.
Making things illegal doesn't make them go away, merely forces them into shadier hands.

coindesk copy and pasted the forklog
the merkle copy and pasted the forklog

its not their fault they do not have brains to do independant investigations..

so read forklog, that quotes lenta.ru..
then find me the actual source on lentra.ru..

then you wont have to take other peoples context, as you will have the source..

Dear Friend: It's a frickin' video interview.
Listening to it now
Here's a link, you frikin ...Friend: http://lenta.ru/video/2016/02/05/klimenko/

its only illegal if you dont register as a money surrogate exchanging business.
if an individual doesnt register, he van be fined $500

if a bank CEO doesnt reveal and register their money surrogate exchanges. they can be fined millions of ruble or get prison time.
in short. its the same thing as in america.

Ahahahaha! Here you go, Friend :D

He does, he does say the very words, right here :D

http://s11.postimg.org/uy9dke7zn/Capture.png
http://lenta.ru/video/2016/02/05/klimenko/

See the word биткoины? That's Bitcoins, in Cyrillics.

:D

http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbwniwC0do1qh2o7zo5_r1_250.gif

Please ignore the ignorant goof, he trolled me into finding this bullshit, don't let him waste your time >:(

Wow, that sucks for bitcoin. Hopefully it won't be enforced much or it's more of a threat then an actual law.

Hmm... Every country does the same.

It's just the fact that if you don't register important exchanges of money, you'll be fined because you didn't pay taxes here.

I mean, not saying it's good or bad, but that's the case in all Europe and whole America. Putin just raised it to btc exchanges too that's all.

The same thing all over again. Now its Russia, then it will China, Then what?
But if this actually turns oput to be true, things will be getting a lot tuffer for Bitcoin

in France, accept cash payment over 1000 euros ... is a crime, too.  ::)
in Germany, accept cash payment over 5000 euros ... is a crime, too.

i don't remember that money have been invented to block the normal selling of thing ...  ::)

so, Bitcoin win at the end.

It's not the money that is responsible for that but the government. And they do that to control money movements.

You're sure for the 1000 euros cash in France? Seems a bit low to me!

And bitcoin won't help if government adapts itself cause each time you'll have to exchange btc for EUR they'll tax you at this moment x)

1000 in italy. in germany they are drafting a bill for max 5000€ right now not active yet.

btw.

2014: russia or <insert other country> bans bitcoin

2015: russia or <insert other country> bans bitcoin

2016: russia or <insert other country> bans bitcoin

notice something? :D

i dont really understand why they need to banned bitcoin?

does the existence of bitcoin destroying the countries fiat? I dont think so, it just funny sometimes see how the government try to control the economic

It's not that they bann bitcoin but that they ban unregistered transactions.

Problem for them is that nobody using btc will freely register the transactions and hence pay the corresponding taxes.

That's why they want to limit btc for companies and shops!

No, they actually are criminalizing Bitcoin, as in "it's surrogate money, illegal because only the Russian government can issue money in Russia."

Read more here, if interested (though I, personally, am not):
And here is the vid that's the source of all this brouhaha:

http://media.tumblr.com/4899bde7b48f263262114ddbe69c716b/tumblr_inline_mo8iu2oJR91qlilxk.png
:D

ahpku if you knew russian you would know he is saying
"electronic money like bitcoin is very interesting,"

he even goes on to joke about if Kleminko went to an ATM, withdrew some bank notes and put 5000 rubles into his pocket. that no one, not even NATO can trace those bank notes. but with bitcoin every transaction is locked into history

as a separate bit of humour, while watching the video i noticed this
just look at the chip on the card. and then look at the icon showing direction of use
seems someone doesnt know how to use Visa
https://i.imgur.com/trBetvr.jpg

anyways back on topic.. lets wait around til atleast february 20th for an update to the draft.
but im still shocked at how the copy and paste clickbait websites didnt do independent verification of the news they post.
so folks dont be spoon fed by media. find the source material.

but nice of you to ignore the content of the video and just say "look the caption says the word bitcoin"
(you add no context)

but nice of you to ignore actual draft legislation and instead quote clickbait websites that also lacked content

so go enjoy your ponies, but i do hope you recover from your hallucination by atleast the 20th of february to be able to read the the actual legislation that actually impacts law.

have a nice day

No, you're wrong again. He says "of course the technology behind bitcoin is very interesting," somewhere between saying "of course you can not accept Bitcoin as payment for anything because that would be "ugolovnoe prestuplenie” (criminal offense)" and "sooner or later all countries are going to crack down on it"
Would you like me to double-check the context 4u?


http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbwniwC0do1qh2o7zo5_r1_250.gif

lol you forgot the bit where he said other currencies are banned and many currencies throughout history are banned. so stop making out as if its a nuclear strike against bitcoin specifically..

do you know that it is not legal to use dollar or euro in russia unless they are money exchange business registered..
oh wait, i guess that was too much context for you

bitcoin was defacto banned before it was even invented. meaning without it needing a new law to say it was banned.. it was banned, just by being not legal tender of russia.

and if you bothered to read section 30 of the draft they are actually talking about allowing people to register as money exchangers to be able to use it, or get a fine if they continue the under-the table stuff (much like getting caught with dollars without registration)

I forgot nothing.
If you wish, I will transcribe the entire interview for you, verbatim, translate it, with parenthetical notes and frilly googlies, for the price of 2 BTC.
Upon completing above transaction, you will have the right to baww and mope about omissions, inaccuracies and unresolved ambiguities not present in the original.
You don't want to see me lose my patience, young man, you're this close!
This close!

Now go brush and off to bed with you, no backtalk.

Ah-ah. No!   Don't wanna hear it.



http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbwniwC0do1qh2o7zo5_r1_250.gif

lol go play with your ponies as i feel your alot younger then me, with all your tumbler links and lack of patients to read legislation, etc.. ill see you after february 20th

also charging $800 for what amounts to 3 minutes transcription once you take out the parts  not related to bitcoin.. makes me think you have no clue about fair value.

and trust me your lack of insight and understanding wont even generate you $1 in transcription work,

so go play with your ponies and come back when the next draft is released

Get back to me when you finish Go, Dog. Go!, Tiger :D

http://s15.postimg.org/konrkbkm3/yourpain.jpg