Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys,

I think we all agree crypto and generally the entire IT industry is all about innovation. New ideas of how to do everyday stuff better is what drives the entire industry moving.

On the other hand, we have BTC, which was a great an innovative idea once it was introduced. However, now, I feel it s lagging behind some other coins which constantly innovate. The entire concept of PoW mining s been obsolete, expensive, ineffective and driven towards large farms. Small home miners are almost out of the picture. I personally use a few PoS coins, DMD Diamond, for example, which generates 25% annual PoS interest rate and has brought me nothing but profits for the last 2 years. Bitcoin does not have PoS and some people argue it should never innovate in that way. Smart contracts option which Ether s about to bring or Factom blockchain data storing option are more examples of great innovations. BTC will not have any of these.

Is the fact it came first to the crypto scene really that important to keep BTC sitting on the throne in the future? I think it need to innovate and do it fast.

no, because the value it's actually backed by miners, since they will do everything to maintain the value at certain level(minimum level), so they can profit

the fact that there is a huge need of energy to run the entire network, it's a good thing, It is the guarantee that bitcoin will survive

You are right, the new coins have much advantages, only thing that is better in Bitcoin is, that it is the ONLY cryptocurrency that is reasonably widely known. Thats why it is so popular.

No, I don't think BTC needs POS or contracts... it is good like it is.

It is an well known fact that "change is the only constant" and no new technology can survive without continuous augmentation and innovation. It's true that now we have so many advanced altcoins in the market, but being a pioneer, bitcoin is most popular coin.

So if a change/addition of technology in bitcoin can help it survive and thrive, I will welcome it!

POS could always be a good option when the maximal amount of coins (or at least close to maximal amount) has been reached.
Smart Contracts can also be solved by sidechains like Counterparty for instance.

I don't think that it adding PoS is a good idea. First, having some money freely will devaluate his price. Finally, having PoS will encourage people to don't use their coin, what we don't want.

I disagree, I think PoS is much more advanced and efficient form of "mining". Also, people lots of people tend to hoard coins anyway.

However, the point of this thread is not about PoS, it s about the need for BTC to innovate or not.

DMD was mainly POW with just 1% POS for hybrid security too at its beginning

but it was changed the opposite way around to be POS the main coin rollout methode and POW just the hybrid security addition

instead of a race for new mining gear that lose earning power in a few months u create demand for coins

because coins is equal to earning power

so mining like BTC is dump at least for the electricity a part of income at markets and create sellpressure

i think BTC with a similar coin rollout setup as DMD would be already 10000 $ a piece

people interested in the income generated by holding coins but not interested in the hassle that mining have attached would push BTC price high

but as long as changes are voted by miners sign blocks

do u think bitcoin will get any changes that weakens the power of the guys who produce and sell mining gear over bitcoin?

bitmain for example

produce mining hardware

sell mininghardware

run cloudmining business

and vote for the future of bitcoin with his enormous hashrate

guess what kind of future is interesting to them and similar companies

POS by itself is something I'm totally against. POS main meaning is: you have money? Here is even more money! One interesting of btc aspect was that you couldn't just create it without effort, owning btc was not similar to earning it.

But I agree on the fact that BTC is not really innovative! When you see how problematic the size issue is, you can wonder what will make btc survive other coins with incredible dev team really fast to react :/

I am confident that the Bitcoin will not be any major changes.
This is an old and heavy coin with tightly in it ingrown specific Asic chips and different contradictory community.
Ongoing debates about the block size and the absence of agreement on this issue well demonstrated it.
Some alternative coins, on the other hand are more active and rapidly improving for taking all the best, and using the time-tested technical innovations.
So Bitcoin price growth will gradually slow down (in spite of the decrease awards in the coming time).
A qualitative altcoin with active communities will only get more expensive.

Damn what you're saying is really frightening :/
(at least for someone not having investment in altcoins and all in btc)

There is one point you don't consider though. Size issu isn't a direct threat.
It's more about long term effect, or at least mid term. So the actors don't HAVE TO agree on something quick.

But considering the number of actors, and the amount of investments in the btc field, I doubt they would let the currency sink...

But just in case, you have an alt to suggest  I should take a look to? ;D

At the moment I have two main asset is the Diamond and Worldcoin.
DMD is a good investment coins and WDC in the future will replace place LTC as fast and convenient coins for instant payment services and shops.

after all its a bitcoin discussion here

and i would love to be able place more of my cryptocoin investments into bitcoin
when i see that it changes away from the path to be a money printing maschine for mining hardware producer and reseller
i can reconsider BTC as a main part of crypto portfolio
for now im sorry BTC only play a trading token role
to store value in bitcoin is far to unproductive in my opinion

its no longer the potential x100 coin it was years ago

and if a x2 make u happy than u dont see the full potential of cryptobusiness
left and right of bitcoin

if cryptocoin is wild wild west
and bitcoin was first and placed his claims and builded a big ranch
then there are much other coins that heading far more west and seek to claim there lands there

from bitcoin u can expect slow grow
but no positive surprises

its no longer on the frontier including all the chances and riscs there

If miners set the price of Bitcoin, it would be over £1 million, It's the investors and consumers that create demand, and demand drives the price (supply modifies it of course). PoS would be good to underpin the value of the sidechains pegged to the Bitcoin Blockchain. As the main blockchain becomes increasingly cluttered, the consumer growth will lie in the sidechains.

How is this different from PoW mining? If you have money, you buy miners, invest into cloud but it all comes down to ability to invest and invest smart. Watching these alts growing, I seriously think there will be time when BTC s going to become second best. Look at LTC, it was number 2, heir to the throne couple years back and they failed to innovate. Is it really number 2 now? I d have my money on Ether or Factom anytime over LTC.

pure POS is not the way to go

there must be a coin rollout part that allow earn coins without have coins forst

thats why i think a POW/POS hybrid is the best combination where at start of coinrollout POW is main coin creation source and POS addon for hybrid security

and later on it switches POS is main coin rollout source and POW is addon or hybrid security

regarding inflation effect is no difference between POS and POW both create new coins

in a endstage of a limited coin supply coin it will stay POW/POW but created blocks only earn tx fees

Changing to PoS or hybrid would require a hard fork. All proposing a change to PoW or the 21 million total cap would do is piss off holders. Investors have been upset enough with the hard fork wars. What bitcoin needs is stability and less strife if we want to see price over $500 this year. Arguing for a change to PoS was a tactic luke-jr used to scare miners from changing from Core to Classic.

Smart contract can be useful to Bitcoin. Bitcoin can be used as a fuel (gas). But it does not have to be integrated into Bitcoin protocol.

They don't have any real advantages. You guys are drinking the trashcoin kool-aid. If they had desirable features, they would be implemented in Bitcoin already. Besides, 99% of those coins are based off of Bitcoin. If their developers had significant engineering skills (which they don't) they'd design a coin from scratch.

PoS/hybrid is useless. As soon as someone messes around with something fundamental as that (or the number of coins) Bitcoin will collapse.

People with money aren't interested in altcoins and most likely never will be.

Both are useless. You're in the wrong section.

If anything Bitcoin will either explode or die. It will not gradually slow down and your precious altcoins won't take off. Most of the people involved with altcoins are just trying to profit because they missed their chance with Bitcoin.

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Should I remind you guys that this is Bitcoin Discussion and not Scamcointalk?

PoS has been academically shown to be insecure for a global cryptocurrency.  Read the papers by Andrew polestra.

Ok, if not PoS, what then? You cannot tell me Bitcoin s fine as it is and it will be fine 5 years from now when most of new coins bring really useful improvements. Innovations is the key, always been and always will be.

I've yet to see a single one actually. What you think are "useful improvements" might be very subjective.

well mini blockchain is a nice feature, that was brought up by cryptonite

A coin called Boolberry (BBR) also has pruned blockchain. The size is much smaller than the full chain.

Bitcoin Core 0.12 has pruning. Next suggestion? As I've already stated, desirable features will be implemented in Bitcoin if they're deemed worthy enough.

When the BBR had the pruning, we could not synchronize from the block 0, we had to download a pruned blockchain data and synchronize from that point on and prune automatically.

Is that the same in Bitcoin?

How does that work in practice? Blockchain s going to be smaller? How is that achieved?

PoS is suggested as an alternative to mining. The other alternative is the increased use of sidechains to support transactions in local communities or industries. A sidechain for gambling and one for faucets would be useful additions to the Bitcoin environment, as they would remove a lot of micro-transactions from the main blockchain.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/33qv3a/pruning_support_what_is_it_and_where_might_it/

it is akin to segwit, they do a bit of order with the trasaction, by removing them and increase the space

i can't find much but i believe that mini blockchain is different than pruning, while achieving the same thing

I like the side chain idea. But how is that maintained? Do you need PoW to support it? Is that centralized?

According to me if a change/addition of technology in bitcoin can help it survive and thrive, I will welcome it! However, it is an well known fact that "change is the only constant" and no new technology can survive without continuous augmentation and innovation. It's true that now we have so many advanced altcoins in the market, but being a pioneer, bitcoin is most popular coin. Again, bitcoin needs is stability and less strife if we want to see price over $500 this year. Arguing for a change to PoS was a tactic luke-jr used to scare miners from changing from Core to Classic. Changing to PoS or hybrid would require a hard fork. All proposing a change to PoW or the 21 million total cap would do is piss off holders. Investors have been upset enough with the hard fork wars.

I totally agree, one of the better things in Bitcoin is, that it is crypto that is just enough known and has many advantages, That is why it is so popular.