Bitcoin Forum

I know it has all the network effects but it's a dinosaur. Transactions take forever, sometimes take days or take client reindexing which takes an entire day. there is little anonyiminiy. Something like Dash has to eventually take it's place. The question is when.

I believe that the transaparency of Bitcoin is an advantage. Most people in commerce don't need anonymity. I can't think of a situation where I would need to conceal a transaction, but, the way the current governments are acting, that may change in the future.

there are services that can improve the anonimity of the transaction, example mixer services, and for the transaction if you pay the right fee it won't take long time to confirm

you can accept zero confirmation, so it's a merchants fault, there is no real issue in accepting them, all fud, because if there was issue, then bitcoin was simple already died

anonimity is better than fiat, and that everything you need for noe, for better anon mix it with monero, it's okish for me that you need to work a little bit to have better anonimity

Anonymity only become a issue, when you not using a third party for payment and transactions. They have to adhere to all these AML & KYC regulations and you sacrifice that information due to them. The transaction processing is also a non-issue if you use services with off-chain transaction processing.

I like anonominity but also FAST and LARGE numbers transactions per bloack. Bitcoin is a dinosaur in both catagories. It will never catch on mainstream if these problems persist. That's why it's time for Altcoin v2. And I don't want to deal with stupid tumblers, half of whom rip you off.

Honestly I don't agree with you on your points here. I've been using it since 2011 and not even once it took more than a day (as you said days) to get confirmed. These cases could only happen if you used lesser amount on fee as required but if anyone uses the standard one, it won't take that long. It never meant to give full anonymity that's why it's pseudonymous. A technology like this doesn't need to be tweaked all the time just so it would be 100% modern to the eyes of some, specially when everything is working just as how it supposed to be.

Why should it take a day? Seriously it should take a minute tops. How the hell am I as a merchant gonna wait a day for a transaction to clear. What now I need to pay an escrow service? Just more middle men making the whole thing more expensive. You might as well just go back to VISA/MC.

Dash and other solves all these problems. Who cares what the cryptocurrency is called, as long as we're all using it effectively and getting rid of the banker parasite middlemen.

All nonsense.
They are near instant.
You're talking about confirmations and even then you're wrong. Stop being cheap and include the recommended fee already. This is an invalid claim.
Of course not. Coins like Dash will never be legal.

Is this some thread dedicated to Dash or something? If so, go back to the shitcoin section. Besides, if these altcoins had any desirable features they'd be already implemented in Bitcoin.

So you're saying anything with built in anonyminity FINCEN will kill. That's a leap but ok. Not sure if I buy it but it's a legit argument.

Confirmations ARE EVERYTHING. You can't accept a transaction without them. Why do they take hours to day? Bullshit. Let's get a coin out there that fixes this. We aren't living in the days of 300 baud modems.

Of course it will. Bitcoin is transparent and pseudo-anonymous. Anonymous coins will not have much adoption outside of the dark net.

They're not and you can. Why should my sister/brother/cousin/whatever who trusts me not accept my zero confirmation transaction? Confirmations take ~10 minutes; I have never had a problem with this. It is people like you, who are really cheap when it comes to the fee that have a problem with it. The reasons that altcoins do not have this problem is because they don't have many transactions anyways.

BTW you're dead wrong on the altcoins man. Plenty are superior to bitcoin but they have no first mover advantage.

IMHO bitcoin it quite a POS from a tech perspective. Hell I think litecoin is better. Bitcoin is slow as hell, and basically 10 year old technology. They either fork it or pitch it soon. It's gonna die eitherway without dragging it into this decade.

The most likely case is the fork. If that doesn't happen, the some new alt coin emerges after a good year of pure chaos.

You've started trolling with biased opinions. In no way is any released shitcoin better than Bitcoin; let's not even go into specifics as comparing the network security (wake me up when your precious little investments have 1 Exahash). If you don't have valid technical evidence/facts/analysis on why something is better, then this thread needs to be put back to the altcoin section.

I've only received a few transactions, and I haven't monitored them closely, but as far as I can see, they haven't taken more than a few minutes to appear in my wallet. That's fine by me. I think Bitcoin is keeping up with technology - SegWit and side chains are both enhancements for the future. Bitcoin's massive node and usebase give it more security than any other coin imho.

You can't even have a reasonable conversation about the pitfalls of bitcoin without invoking "trolling".

That's the trouble with this community. and it's bothersome. Bitcoin isn't ready for primetime by a damn site and with atitudes like yours it never will be.

I don't know what the future brings, all I know is bitcoin as is has no future at all. It must adapt or die, like all things.

Of course you're trolling or you're living in delusion of knowledge. I've presented you with some statements and corrected yours on which you've answered with fallacies (actually ignoring them). Let's not forget that Litecoin is a scamcoin released under the premise that scrypt was not GPU mine-able when in fact it was since the beginning. That's not relevant though.

If any coin stands any chance of global adoption, then that is Bitcoin. As said, altcoins don't have desirable features and mostly are just bad. If they did, Bitcoin would have adopted their features by now.

Altcoin developers are incapable of creating something similar.

Indeed it does, albeit the number of nodes is not really a reliable metric. You can look at the hashrate for security.

Actually - I'm going to say - yes you can. Seriously.

To perform a double spend attack, costs. It costs a lot.

NO ONE is going to try and cheat you, and attempt to rewrite/outrun the blockchain, for 99.999% of txns.

Sure - a 1 million BTC transfer, wait for 6 confirmations. 1 hour. Big Deal.

But for the rest of us, you are absolutely, 99.9999% fine, the single split second after you have received the funds. Which is probably about 1 second after they were sent.

I don't know why no one ever seems to realise this.

If you want to be 'UBER' paranoid, 1 confirmation, 5 mins on average, is all we will ever need. But even that is completely unnecessary for the hum drum low value txns most of us make.

I transferring FIAT money to an exchange, took 7 days (9 including the weekend).. and 8%.

Bitcoin is light years ahead of that.

There's a lot of noise everywhere . I read where Dash has more nodes than Bitcoin now. Whether that is true or false I don't  know.

Anyway your knowledge outside the bitcoin world is extremely limited. I suggest you read up on the other coins out there and what they offer. To me bitcoin is all about first mover advantage and nothing more. But it's not scaling for sh*t anymore and unless that's fixed you can say adios to bitcoin.

Really enjoying reading Lauda's posts lately. He/she just destroys FUD, trolls & haters like a wrecking ball.

Apparently this thread is about promoting altcoins; it does coincide with ETH spam in the speculation section. Accepting zero confirmation transactions for low value trades or between people that trust each other is reasonable. Nobody is going to try to cheat you for 5-10$, thus all smaller Bitcoin transactions can be considered instant (albeit all are near instant; confirmations aren't and people seem to confuse these two).

Again, you are ignoring everything for the sake of promoting altcoins. There is a guide on the Bitcoin reddit page that shows how to create 3000 nodes easily, ergo it is a unreliable metric.

Actually you knowledge in general is very limited; just use your head. Anything that an altcoin produces can and will be (if it is good enough) implemented in Bitcoin, which means that no altcoin will be able to hold that advantage.

Wake me up when an altcoin has solved this problem. Oh wait, it doesn't have to because nobody is using them.

I came in like a wrecking ball, I never hit so hard on coins.

Let me tell you what happened to me today. I sent off 3 transacations with some fees and NONE OF THEM CONFIRMED. FOr hours on end. I use bitcoin-qt.  Finally I'm like "WTF" is wrong. What do I do ? I have to rerun bitcoin-qt --reindex which takes 24 EFFIN hours. Finally the transactions started confirming.

what is wrong with this picture?

The first thing that is wrong here is that you didn't give us any transaction IDs. It is also possible that there is something wrong with your wallet and you are blaming Bitcoin for it. I've been using QT and then Core for 3 years and I have never had any problems with it.

When was the time that you've updated your wallet? Last QT version was released in 2013-12-09; the current wallet software is Bitcoin Core 0.11.2.

Lauda you are the most worthless staff poster here. Your ignorance astounds me. You know basically about altcoins. Do you think people just make them up instead of having sex or something? Some may do it for scamming purposes but many have legit ideas
BITCOIN IS FUBAR RIGHT NOW. Deal with reality. Stop bitching and moaning and start presenting some solutions instead of name calling. You'd do yourself and the community a favor.

I'm scared to the point that I'm gonna dump my whole stash of BTC b/c you if represent the community this experiment is GAME OVER.

We need some leadership and some innovation quick.

OP posts nonsense -> OP gets corrected -> repeat -> OP asks for help because OP is confused -> member provides help -> OP uses 'ad hominem'. This logic is amazing.

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As I've pointed out and you've proven yourself, you have no technical knowledge and are just rambling on why altcoins are better then in fact they are much worse. Keep this up and you will most likely get banned for breaking the rules. You have not answered to a single statement made by spartacusrex nor me either.

You convinving piece of trash. I am using 0.11.2 and I know this stuff 10 times more than you ever will. I'm not giving out transactions to humor your stupid ass.

The conversation is over. I have lowed my IQ talking to a total complete imbecile. That's all you are. Go back in your stupid hole you live in.

use 10k satoshi next time, because i'm sure you didn't, and this is right for all your transaction, because if for oen you use less then the other that are connected to that transaction will be delayed as well, no matter the fee

How lovely.  ::)

Seriously. You might just be the biggest jerk I've ever met online. You know nothing about anything and just spout off crap based on faulty assumptions. Wow you're such a badass.

"BITCOIN IS GOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS Heresay". That;s all I've gotten out of you. If only the world were that simple.

well no proof that you did, so i take this comment as "yes i didn't"

without proper fee it's obvious that you won't get fast confirmation

Status: Open for 16617 more blocks
Date: 2/8/2016 06:03
To: 1FLRfyVYvYNjZfsi4yG3z5kYGTZHBTo7cV
Debit: -0.50000000 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.00020260 BTC
Net amount: -0.50020260 BTC
Transaction ID: 7e38a97859439cf41ac35fa012d1a30794ff22c1cd98fd1189ef79cc830c303c-000


and bitcoin-qt is still syncing. 24+ hours now.

But I just made all this crap up for no reason at all.

They take day if you add no fee.
We can't say the fees are expensive buddy, stop being a cheap ass and pay them. When using Electrum the default fee is 0.1% and it allows transactions to get 6 confirmations in nearly 1hour. It's not exactly a slow process, especially considering 6 conf are extremely high and most sites accept 3 or 2.

Basically there were 3 transactions hung for 5 hours until I decided to run reindex. Then after about 6 more hours they started confirming.

I see. So I need to REINDEX also (yeah that makes sense). And the fee I used was the default for bitcoin-qt. Maybe we can make bitcoin real cool and start requiring .01 BTC transactions fees. It's heading there now.

Never paid more than 50k satoshi fee.
The fee should be proportional to the amount you're sending, and it's really low compared to any other mean of payment.

Problem being that if you use another coin, yeah for sure it'll be faster. Until adoption reaches btc level, then it gonna be something rather similar.

I like electrum but I don't trust offline storage. I've heard too many horror stories of people gettting cleaned out.

this is confirmed what is the problem exactly? the sync need good ssd like the evo or above and a good cpu to launch qt, nothing more

are you moaning that you have a crappy pc really?

His post seemed to me to be quite helpful. What was wrong with it?

Truth is, bitcoin isn't really good at milking the abundance of resources thrown at at. Thousands of non mining node, tons of computing power and yet the network could still work as it doses to day with 1% of the current resources. Thing is, non mining nodes aren't a good security addition and I think that they were never intended to be used in the network as they are now. And increase in the block size would make matters even worse for nodes. Why not have 10Gb blocks and hire AWS instances to nodes? Nah... Bitcoin shouldn't try to compete with how high TPS centralized payment networks can reach, it has a different structure in the first place.

My PC is state of the art AMD 8 core, 16GB ram, 500GB SSD.

NOW STFU.

Jet, you will find this board FULL of shills, hacks and just pure ignoramuses that are conceded pricks to boot. Try to filter out the fools from the people who know something. That's all you can do.

I guess Bitcoin will find a way to work out all these flaws. If you think about it, Bitcoin is still the one standing despite all the crisis.

Bitcoin is anonymous enough without being too anonymous.

It would be difficult for someone to track my spending habits, much more difficult than with credit card purchases - yet in a court of law the ability to track things in the blockchain and prove outgoing transactions were made by me by producing the private key is of value.

Also there are laws, at least in the United States, that make intentional obfuscation of the source of funds illegal. Bitcoing is transparent enough to not be illegal, but some of the coins with "better" anonymity may not be. Again in a legal dispute, I would rather have used a currency that is transparent enough to be legal.

They only take hours when the person making the purchase chooses to use a really small fee.

So if they are delayed in receiving product because they chose to use a small fee when paying, that's the buyer's fault, not the merchants.

I use larger transaction fee so that confirmation starts quickly. And it is still small.

Yes, but how many noobies knows this, and get frustrated with Bitcoin because it's so slow? The wallet providers have their own default benchmark for

relative fast confirmations and higher fees, but if this is set too low, the users will struggle. Some people determine their own miners fee, and they do

not even know about this problem. Make sure you pay a higher than default fee for prioritized transactions to avoid these hassles. 

Increase the block size. Isn't that the whole fight over the upcoming fork?

Most newbies use web wallets, like coinbase, and they are really fast at getting the transaction onto the block chain.

There is no dispute that the transaction capacity needs to be increased. There is only dispute on the best way to do it.

Not sure how it is possibly for a relatively new tech innovation is archaic.  If there is a fiat/paper money message board maybe this is meant for it.  Things will work itself out with bitcoin.  Nothing about it is archaic.

Without "newbies" bitcoin is nothing but some theoretical pie in the sky "payment" system for a bunch of hard core geeks.

And right now bitcoin SUCKS at transaction speed. It sucks so bad I gather an entire rewrite is required.

Don't tell this to that incompetent imbecile list moderator though.

I agree that I do not mind Bitcoin being not totally anonymous. But for those that want anonymity I think the solution comes from services put over Bitcoin, not from Bitcoin changing its core.

It does not suck at transaction speed.

I make payments from bitcoin-core and they are very fast.
I make payments from coinbase and they are very fast.

Granted bitcoin-core requires sliding the slider to make them very fast, but coinbase doesn't and services like coinbase is what newbies are likely to use.

You cannot execute a transaction faster than the next block found PERIOD. And sometimes blocks can take 30 mins.

So you're dead wrong. 30 mins is unacceptable on ANY LEVEL PERIOD. It's a fundamental design flaw.

So then what altcoin is the fastest?

From what I read about Dash is <60 seconds. I think most Alt 2.0 coins are very fast. Bitcoins needs alot of rewrite and it's time to start over with the same name or just throw it out completely. It's a total joke right now when it comes to transaction volume and speed.

you will find that btc its now better into price tahn this alt coins and the volume its very high the slow compared trasactions its a minor correcteble bug you can trusth btc to be more good than bad as currency to find the btc to fiat even its very usefull so you buy sell use btc as any currency and getting better to combat the high time trasctions of banks and companies

Um I have a feeling you do not understand the math.

A shorter block time only means less hashing power is needed for each block.

Thus for a shorter block time, you need more confirmations to have the same confidence - so say for example with a 5 minute block time, you would need 12 confirmations before you get the same confidence you have with 6 confirmations with bitcoin.

Let me tell you how credit cards works.

Customer pays me $126.65 via Visa. I get the auth. Everything seems cool.

A week later I am told the card was stolen. It doesn't matter that I already shipped the product, they take that money away from me - and charge me a fee for having accepted a stolen card. So now I have shipped the product and have less money than I had before.

That doesn't happen with bitcoin. It is usually safe to accept with 0 confirmations as long as the buyer has a decent transaction fee and is a registered account with your business.

For really big purchases you want to wait, but that's an option you don't have with credit cards - where a week later you may find out the transaction was no good.

For smaller purchases, if you see the transaction then odds are it will not be a double spend.

Accepting bitcoin is safer than accepting credit cards.

Bitcoin is not archaic. It is the future.

Non instant confirmations aren't a fundamental flaw design, neither it is a feature. It's a sacrifice to protect from double spending. Bitcoin being a trustless and decentralized currency transactions need to be confirmed before they can be considered secures. Changing that would require significant changes in the infrastructure or with a layer built on top of bitcoin. The latter can be dome more easily.

Perhaps, but I don't know a single vendor now that will accept anything on 0 confirmations anymore. In fact most require 2.

That's because most use third party payment processing where the third party doesn't have a way to know whether you have made purchases before without trying to scam them.

there are service like purse.io on which you can use your bitcoin, that accept 0 conf

So if bitcoin is so archaic and slow then why are people still using it?

Network effects. But there's a tipping point approaching...

There was a time when bitcoin was 1000$. You could say that now it is more stable.

That's not even relevant, stop posting before you read anything.

It is not.

I don't recall the last time that I've waited for confirmations.

Well you're rather lucky then xD

Let's face it bitcoin is not a really fast way of paying. Of course the transactions in themselves are instant but the confirmations can take some times. Not unusual to wait for one or two hours to get your confirmations.

In the other hand though, it's not really a problem as bitcoin was conceived like that. It's not made to be the fastest mean of payment, cause it has to put security of transactions on the line too.

because it is an alternative to the fiat crap system, since it run on his own circuit, the blockchain, it's good to avoid all the control that fiat have

at least this is true for me, i liek that my money are no spied all the time

Paper money cannot be spied like those electronic cards..
So those who are willing to launder money are always stick to paper..

It is faster than the credit card system where an auth often takes days before it is real.

Vendors accept an auth and deliver the goods before it is real. They can safely do the same with bitcoin. Well, at least as safely as they do with credit cards.

Someone technical correct me if I'm wrong, but double spending is a lot harder in bitcoin now than it use to be because nodes no longer will broadcast a transaction if they have already seen a transaction using the same inputs. That makes it more difficult to get the double spend to the miners even if it has a higher TX fee, and if it doesn't get relayed to the miners then the first TX wins.

I'm not lucky, I just know how to properly use Bitcoin. I can't say the same for people complaining about confirmation times.

It is unusual. You're doing something wrong.

@OP,
It really creates a problem when you need to wait for days to get your txn confirmed, but as soon as the technology evolves, these problems will go away as BTC is still new and is passing through many problems...

I think you're completely missing the point, calling bitcoin archaic. It has some problems, of course. but it is also on it's way to significant improvements and all the issues mentioned tend to be solved in the short run.

Bitcoin is completely done if it was intended for massive adoption, no one will touch it and no common person can even begin to decipher the mumbo jumbo it means. However it was the first step and a complete unique technology that paved the way and it still works great as some sort of digital gold. But it has reached its peak years ago.

Well, I really think Bitcoin will find a way to work out all these flaws. If you think about it properly, Bitcoin is still the one standing despite all the crisis.

Like seriously, the average joe is either clueless to bitcoin or has sorta heard of it some where, and you think that they are all of a sudden gone jump at the idea of a coin called Dash, yeah Dash it good but only to those who are already involved in the crypto space.  

A lot of powerful people have a lot of money and time invested in bitcoin, there is no way they are gona just dump all that to move to Dash.  Like i have heard said before who said that bitcoin had to be a crypto currency used to buy a coffee?  it could be the currency of international settlement, in which case 10min confirmation times are fast,  dash could be the currency of small payments in shops.  Why does one have to replace the other, the can work together but for different purposes

All alt coins are marketed to a niche market. All of them try to catter to bitcoin audiences because that's really the only group interested in crowdfunding cutting edge crypto fintech. The average joe doesn't care about decentralization and trustlesness over simple convenience. I think you're right, the vast majority of people with interest in cryptocurrency develop it though, or in relation to bitcoin. The way things currently are, there's no way a descendant can surpass bitcoin.

These kind of threads bring further confusion into the BTC ecosystem and nonetheless they are what scare newbies who try to inform themselves for the first time.
I see BTC in the early stages still: there's room for improvement and there will be.

No man, it's done, too much negative press and it's a joke, but that's for the common population and regular business though. The community will stay the same and Bitcoin will still be virtual gold, but any dreams that it will get adopted by the mainstream or added into Steam, Amazon, eBay, Google or whatever is impossible, no one would touch it.

You consider it done and I don't.  There is still much that can be said here.
We don't need big players to disrupt the market: let them create their own virtuacoin and we will see which one as the future on its said.
BTC is not just virtual gold.

That's a little exaggerated. Bitcoin development is slow exactly why it works as it does. Changes need to be carefully evaluated and tested before they can be rolled out and agreed upon by the consensus system. We should not forget that Bitcoin already secures a massive amount of wealth.

Since this thread is obviously geared toward talking about altcoins, I think it's best for this thread to be moved to the altcoin section, since this does tend to irritate people here in the main section who are trying to talk about Bitcoin only.

Also it's obvious you are trying to promote Dash. While that's ok and you're entitled to your opinion of what's best to suite your needs alone, it's not ok to create a thread here to recruit people to some extent.

I enjoy reading up on altcoins myself, and while Dash was one of the first cryptonote coins, it's an obvious scam one which was premined/ninjamined... Just saying.

I don't give a rats ass about Dash or any other "alt coin" I was simply pointing out bitcoin has block size issues that other coins clealy fix. Bitcoin should look at some of their solutions and incorporate it into the code base.

This weeks tulip mania for Ethereum is indicitive that there is a disgruntled community. Of course ethereum is nothing but hot air and will go back to close to 0 eventually, but if bitcoin doesn't shape up, something will start legitimately competing with it. And it needs to fix this stuff FAST b/c time is at a premium now.

They may not be as fixed as you think.

As with any new technology, the first of its kind will always lose out to a more improved technology down the road. It has the advantage of first mover status and market share yes, but other coins have the advantage of learning from BTC's mistakes.

The first mover advantage for bitcoin is monumental. However if transaction costs continue to be cost prohibitive both in time and cost, then slowly but surely other currencies will replace it.

Bitcoin has a high degree of scarcity. Other cryptos have missed the boat on that.

However there is an enormous electricity cost just to secure the network.

Bottom line is, bitcoin will never be a true electronic currency if transactions take more than a few seconds to complete. It may be a store of value and you use other currencies as intermediaries, but that is almost self defeating.