Bitcoin Forum

I heard someone previously note that the way to get Bitcoin into low income countries was for them to use it on their phones.
The idea was that people from low income countries more can more likely afford a phone rather than a computer.

Here is a graph of Cellphone model use:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vendor-ww-monthly-201112-201212

Nokia is at the top.
Going in more specifically to low income countries:

Iran - http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vendor-IR-monthly-201112-201212
Kenya - http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vendor-KE-monthly-201112-201212
Nigeria - http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vendor-NG-monthly-201112-201212
Ethiopia - http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vendor-ET-monthly-201112-201212

They are all using Nokia.

Unfortunately, no one wrote up an app for Nokia:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mobile_Payment_Apps

I think an app for Nokia would be a first good step to get low income countries.

Good suggestion. There were some guys here discussing translation of some app for African countries last spring. Wonder how far they got?

Totaly

+100

cool conclusion

Im sorry if this is a stupid question, but how can bitcoin help a country like those on the list above? I mean this with sencerity because I thinks its interesting. I was thinking that it could help those with what little they do have hide it, so it can never be taken from then. I guess it would be the safest way for them to protect there money.

Im really intrested In this so i guess the first step Is do some research on what issues plague the finicail part of there country or its economy and then look at bitcoin to see how it could help?

Banking the unbanked - allowing electronic money transfer for more people. Making transaction costs slower. Solving the change problem. Access to global marketplace for aspiring entrepreneurs in those countries. I see thousand reasons why bitcoin would be huge success in those countries.

On the original topic, nokia phones will be soon replaces by cheap android phones. It is not worth it, maybe a SMS wallet could be. And symbian is pain in the ass to develop for, huge pile of legacy crap.

taking africa as a great example.
watch a tv series called 'jungle gold' as a reference. even episode 1 gives you an idea of what some places are like.

there is alot of gold being mined in africa, and alot of roadblocks that villages have preventing people from passing unless they pay a tax/toll, their cars are checked for cash and if found the tax increases dramatically. they have machete's so its not anything like a toll booth in developed cities. its a pay or die thing.

now many gold miners fear once they have smelted their gold and sold it. moving the FIAT from the smelting village back to their own village is risky and can get them killed or robbed.

now having the gold sale done in bitcoin to their phone which is then keypad locked is atleast better security then a rucksack/shoulder bag full of money. whilst travelling.

Those are circumstances which call for a brainwallet for optimal security! (And yes, Africa is indeed like that. I enjoyed the film Blood Diamond starring Leonardo di Caprio.)

Exactly, rather than waste years developing for a dying closed platform, it makes more sense to improve wallet access with SMS or HTML gateways with the expectation that low-end unsubsidized Android phones will probably be selling under $50 in a coupe of years.  I haven't used online wallets like blockchain/instawallet/coinbase via HTTP on a mobile browser (I prefer the blockchain Android app) but my recollection is that they have been tested and are quite functional in the web browser.


Jungle Gold, Bering Sea Gold, Gold Rush, all my guilty pleasures :)  Gotta wonder how scripted they are, though.  Check out Bamazon on History Channel for a seemingly more realistic depiction of a bunch of newbies mining gold in a jungle environment.

One example is foreign remittances from workers abroad to relatives back home. For example one may have a foreign worker in Canada sending say 200 USD a month to family in Haiti. This kind of remittance is a very significant part of the business of companies like Western Union and is also a major source of foreign exchange for places like Haiti, Kenya etc. Migrant worker funds transfer to family members is huge worldwide. Cut the money transfer fees down by using Bitcoin and this will have a direct impact not only on the family members involved but also on the local economy. 

I still remember waiting in line at the post office and could not avoid overhearing that the man in front of me was sending 70 CAD to Kenya. He was charged about 8 CAD for the money transfer. Ironically I was waiting in line to pick up the documents I needed for account verification at MtGox!

I personally believe this is the way bitcoin will be used for a start, more than what it is now. It's obvious when you can ignore Visa/Paypal/WU fees, bitcoins can be an alternative.

Thanks for the info. I will definetely investigate Nokia app development.

How do you get those places:
http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=exhange+office
 (http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=exhange+office)to start working with bitcoin?

Great find!

But what you should really look at is the OS they are using rather then the brand:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-af-monthly-200812-201212

To set up a bounty for some working light weight client on Symbian or Series40 I would even pledge 10 BTC to get it started!

Before I commit to it, lets discuss whether it is feasible, whether it requires some kind of SMS integration, different network standards or other prerequisits to make a mobile bitcoin wallet work in most parts of Africa and whether similar projects have already been started somewhere else.

Also:
What should be the minimal requirements a winning entry would have to meet?

What attributes would be desireable?

cmon people, THIS IS IMPORTANT!

With J2ME, you have a lot of mem restrictions, me thinks. OTOH you can get my current smartphone for euro 50,- here. And I guess it's a lot cheaper in china, or so.

Wouldn't it be better to write something for cheap smartphones or tablets? You can do so much more with such devices.

what would be the recourse to getting your coins if your phone was lost? i imagine this would be the first or second big worry. the other being getting people to accept trading their tangible goods for something seemingly intangible.

Thats a very generic worry about Bitcoins. Could you be more specific in regards to worries of "needy places"?

With symbian I see distribution as a problem.
14 years ago I was thinking about implementing dynamic ride share but there were no smart phones yet and for my project to succeed, a high density of users would be key. My only option was to convince a network provider or a manufacturer to distribute it. There are java enabled phones that nobody uses to run custom software. Maybe companies do so but not end users.

I also vote for smartphone only and wouldn't put a dime on developing a bitcoin client for symbian.

Yet if anybody feels nostalgic to hack something, memory constraints shouldn't be an issue as with expensive data plans, the schildbach client should not be the goal but rather some Bitcoin Spinner type of client.
Also please think about no-qrcode scanner/no-nfc. People might have a lot of time to type bitcoin addresses but I see at best a proof of concept and no mass adoption.

I'd just want to mention phonegap here. Write one app and run it on android, ios, windows mobile, in a browser etc etc. I just started a simple btc-e app just to get used to it. And although I don't like javascript, it's still a cool concept for me...

I'm not too familiar with gaps of technology understanding in more needy places, but I was just surmising that people of needy countries aren't as readily equipped with the sort of background it takes to understand why and how to secure bitcoins

I think they are more proficient in those things then many people tend to think. If the average Joe (or Simba?) doesnt know how to secure it, he only has to ask someone who does (like the guy in the internet cafe down the road). When he learns, that his money is save even if he looses his phone or it is stolen and all he has to remember is a self chosen passphrase, a lot of people will see the merrits. At least for day to day transactions a simple mobile client should be fine for smaller amounts.