Bitcoin Forum

xmr rose quickly, and even quicker today.

When eth did same recently, many said it is just a scam, pump a dump thing to get noobs to spend their btc to eth pumpers.

What about xmr current sudden rise? Are ppl starting to see its real value, or its just pumping and dumping season for xmr now?

What are your opinions?

I have a feeling it is a pump and dump thing. Could be wrong though.

Have to say the unusually high volume seems like a pump and dump... Basically ethereum with another coin.

Monero has been massively underpriced for a long time. I think most people understood that a correction was more or less inevitable.

Pre-GUI release the 'proper' trading range for XMR should be between 0.004 and 0.005.

Post-GUI release you should really expect the 0.01 all-time high to be broken, although this depends on development variables.

Certainly, the SDC news helped, as well as an increased understanding of the significance of Ring Signature technology, coupled with Shen Noether's work.

It's worth also adding that Monero has a strong libertarian base as well as a technogeeky base - and that's something that other privacy orientated coins just aren't able to match (especially true for projects that are essentially a product defined by profit-acquisition.)

A privacy-orientated coin should always always be a grassroots, open-source, and decentralized affair. Yes - that may mean it can appear a little rough around the edges at times - as is true with a lot of open-source projects - but ultimately for the construction of something as universal as a currency there is no substitute.

I think most people understand this, however there will always be some that will never see it.

When a currency moves, it usually doesn't do so gradually.  Bitcoin rarely made new ground gradually, and neither do most cutting edge tech-stocks.  They have violent upward movements that eventually smooth out into new price bases.  Were the major Bitcoin moves pump and dumps? 
 
Now why do assets usually make new ground like this?  Well, the price explosion is fueled by new interest in the asset, and new money flowing in.  Consider there are many reasons why XMR could be exploding upward right now, all of them legitimate.  Perhaps the first few speculators in China have even caught wind of Monero.... now that could get real scary, real quick.

mweh, seems like pump and dump to me...

didn't learn much yet, but did learn that parabola mostly don't last that long...

Dump of Monero is very near...pump long over

yeah, I think it's time for soda-machines now... or some centralised system to lock up coins in...

https://i.imgur.com/SK0himr.png?1

Monero has been undervalued for a lot of time. Its just finding its real value now which i think should be a bare minimum $4

Even if you dont value privacy and are not interested in Monero, the technology is beautiful and the project is far from a pump and dump

theymos? lol  ::)

monero is scam from the start. everyone here knows that.

monero and their troll kids gang deserve a good dump in their faces :-*

Thanks for your valuable contribution

It is a paradigm shift.
People are used to cheap Moneros but it looks like they need to say a farewell to Moneros under 2000 usd/xmr.
I do not see any reason why Monero couldn't hit these extreme highs, the emission is getting tighter and tighter. The core holders are determined to hold until the very end and the community is getting new people that seem to have idle money to invest into this project.

This.

Monero will not always remain that cool but cheap coin, the stealth phase has now passed and it is entering the awareness phase

http://www.rmgwealth.com/uploads/assets/New%202015/20th%20Jun%20-%201.jpg

Monero is a dead coin.  Someone decided to throw a few satoshis and pump and dump it. 

Word is the Monero devs paid some trader pumper whales to pump the coin for a while. It crashed badly few days ago following a similar pump.

I think it’s legit. Monero was underperforming since months and this is just a strikeback. On the other hand I don’t see much further potential from the current levels. What I would do: Switch from Monero to Dash; Dash was the underperformer of the last weeks and have probably value to grow further. Or Factom.

Such a sudden spike in volume and price is used to be an indication of a pump. Also there aren't any really great news about monero (like X or Y bank interested in the technology, or whatever else) so this rise is most likely a pump indeed.

...and again, there are no such think like undervalued coin. It's all about supply, demand, market and economy for a given coin. Everything worth exactly as much as what people willing to pay for it.

I like monero and bought a bit more this week.

However, i would like to see a ring sigs coin like that or bbr released with an easy guide for all to mine. I think POW is still the best distribution model and we've yet to have a coin like this released that it is easy for everyone to mine at the start. Problem with monero only a small % of people mined it at the start and i think it is concentrated in their hands still.

Even so i think it deserves to be a top 10 coin.

 
 
That's what you sound like.

AS stated previously, Monero is not an alt-coin.

It offers something very different than what Bitcoin currently offers users.

I think ICE said it...it should be a comp-coin.

a few satoshis is not 2000-3000 BTC. lol

The devs running this coin should go to jail for defrauding investors, fooling them into buying into an orchestrated pump.

They've paid some Poloniex day traders few k to fool around with the coin.

From a coin with a shitty daily volume of 20-30k/day USD few weeks ago it grew to 800k volume. Give me a break.

It's like you didn't even know what you meant to say.  ;)

Fair warning. Dump the turd now or weep tomorrow. Your choice.

I don't think privacy is something to be celebrated in terms of currency, that's why you see so many scammers and hacks in Bitcoin. Exchanges keep running away with their money, etc. Privacy is a delicate issue and 100% is something utopic, you may feel that you don't like being filmed in public spaces but you just have to put up with it, no other way around it. With money it's different, business must be regulated and we as civilians living under government still need to play under certain rules. I'm all for financial sensible information not leaking out if you don't want to, but if every transaction can't be traced then you are giving criminals a great tool. Decentralized and P2P currency is great, completely anonymous not so sure...

Please post .png images of your last three months of bank statements. 
 
Don't worry, I'll wait. 

No. Do you have access to that? What's your point? Privacy is not black and white, we live in a society. So there are many privacy issues that are not addressed but we tolerate them. Like airports, taxes, id, contracts, etc, to a certain extent of course. How much money you have in your bank and in your bank account is private but it could be investigated if needed and that for me is perfectly fine. Actually having a public blockchain like Bitcoin used for government expenses where you can see how much tax payers money they have on each account is a great idea for example so privacy is a tool that can be used to our benefit. I don't see any benefit with total and complete financial privacy where you don't know where money comes and goes.

Yes having a public blockchain for the government that is spending our money could well be a good way of holding them accountable.

As far as individuals not so much.  You should know that Monero is private by default but you have the option to show to those you chose balances or transactions.  I find this much better than it being public by default. 

It is interesting to see theymos show some support for monero.

The only problem with his view is he really thinks that other technologies can be added to bitcoin is just a pipe dream. Block size change can't even get put into bit coin let alone an entire code section (pages and pages) of new code.

lol as if any of us who have half a brain (at least) would get financial advice online from a user named "HERP" lol

What you miss imo is that you reason in terms of the fiat system and apply it to crypto.

With the fiat system, we have somewhat this middle-spot of private for your neighbours, but transparent for law enforcement in case required. Not everybody is cool with that, but most people I'd say are ok with it (mostly because we've been living with that forever in our lives - except for physical cash).
The flaw then is to apply it to cryptocurrencies and claim it's ok to stop at this middle-spot. However the difference is that there is no privacy with respect to your neighbours, there is no distinction about who is law enforcement or not: anybody on the planet is the law enforcement and can trace your activity.
I hope you'll see the difference here, having mobs pointing fingers on the internet is the last thing you want and certainly has nothing to do with the selective transparency you're used to with fiat money on bank accounts in today's society.

Above point is important, but not as big as: fungibility. Direct consequence of privacy features. Fiat money's fungibility is ensured by law since centuries since this (http://www.dgcmagazine.com/what-a-landmark-legal-case-from-mid-1700s-scotland-tells-us-about-the-fungibility-and-the-very-nature-of-money-and-why-we-should-care-in-light-of-the-recent-coinvalidation-controversy/) famous case. In crypto there is no law other than what you can technically do or not. If people can know the history of some outputs, with complete certainty or just reasonable suspicions, then fungibility is broken. In legacy system, you are not liable for accepting a bank note that was involved in a bank robbed few "hops" before you, this is ensured by law. Because you have no way to know. With traceable crypto, if it's possible for you to know that easily, human law will make you liable for accepting it.

I have been arguing with people on privacy and especially fungibility matters since several years. I was very early on facing that issue as I founded a gambling site (luckyb.it), and not everyone is ok with accepting coins linkable to that sort of activity. And I've seen the same arguments repeated over and over: "Bitcoin is not completely private, but it happens to be just the sweet spot we need! It is by far private enough for most activities!"
I find that very delusional, you really need to take a step back and look at it with fresh eyes.
Practical example of the constant delusion is the changing message. First it was a firm "Bitcoin is all good and private enough as it is!", and anybody claiming otherwise was deemed a troll or probably shilling for a shitty altcoin. Then it was a convinced "Bitcoin with some mixers is all ok! And guys, coinjoin! Coin-join!", and historical evidence (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2udkkl/bitcoin_isnt_anonymous_thank_you_gizmodo_for/co838ut) of such delusional bias quickly dismissed. Lately, the trend is to rely on "confidential transaction". (Funny to witness people screaming that all around, the sames who previously were convinced a mixer was all good - makes you wonder how many do understand what they're talking about).


All I wrote above is about people explicitly *not* wanting their stuff to be public, in which case Bitcoin simply does a terrible job.
But I completely agree with you on the benefice of transparency in some cases, in particular for storing and using money donnated, whether to a NGO or a governement.
That is why in Monero you have view keys, that do precisely that. It's up to an address owner to give the view key to anyone he wants.
The difference?
Monero does privacy by default (cryptographically), transparency on demand.
Bitcoin does transparency by default, privacy (through apparatus on top of it) on demand.

EDIT: typos

https://i.imgur.com/aUXV1Pi.jpg  
  
Ahh, so you're ok with 'authorities' having access to break individual privacy, but don't believe we have the right to break each other's privacy?  Who decides who the authorities are?  
  
If you want Bitcoin to be used for all government accounting, then lobby for that.  But don't deny the individual their privacy for the sake of your own agenda.  That makes you no better than people who think homosexuality is gross -> so they believe all homosexuals should be killed.  
  
I want privacy.  Millions, nay, BILLIONS want privacy.  It is our human right and need to have privacy, and fuck you or anyone else who thinks that right should be taken away.  We need the right to free speech, property, and yes - privacy to function as a peaceful and ideal society.  Or perhaps you have just been brainwashed for too many years into believing that bad guys are everywhere, lurking around every bush... and if you would only give up MORE of your rights and freedoms to the all-knowing, all-seeing, iron fist of the powers that be then finally you will be safe.  
  
But real life doesn't work that way.  Power corrupts, and if you give power to break privacy to fallible humans they will abuse it 10 times out of 10.  That perfect moral authority you wish existed so you could surrender your weak little soul to it and be safe, comfortable, and happy?  That was your mother's womb and it no longer exists.  You're in the real world now, and every intelligence is a kingdom unto themselves.  Let NO MAN abridge our natural rights and freedoms.  
  
LET NO MAN accuse us of a crime we have not committed and execute an unjust restriction on our freedoms!  You don't want privacy?  Then fine, post your bank account and inner most details of your life on the internet, but I HAVE COMMITTED NO CRIME and have borne you no ill will, sir.  DO NOT attempt to take away my right to free speech, and my right to privacy away so you can feel a little safer in your blanket at night.  
IT IS ENOUGH!  
  
We must defend our rights as citizens.  Rights guaranteed by every moral scruple in our fibers, rights derived in almost every religion and faith, and rights that are by every test FAIR AND JUST.  
  
God himself gave Adam and Eve the clothes to cover their naked bodies and now you would presume to take them away!?  Who the fuck do you think you are!?  
  
We will have privacy, and we will have rights.  Humans have certain inalienable rights, and privacy is one of those!  And no one better try to take it away from us free and functioning adults:  PRIVACY IS FREEDOM.  FREEDOM IS PRIVACY.  MONERO IS FREEDOM.

Wrong, it is called an innate human right (privacy).

If I don't want to be filmed I'll just wear a hat and sunglasses to cover up. Better yet if I don't want to have a bank asking me a million questions about my money I just won't use a bank.

Same goes for other things like using fiat crap paper.

The way around it is exercising your choice and making good choices.

It is easy to take a triumphalist tone during the rips.  The real reward comes to those who can keep that flame burning through the dips.  In fact, I believe we are much, much nearer the bottom than the top, even now.

There really is, even now, almost two full years into the game, nothing real and present which can compare to the excellent qualities of XMR as digital currency, pure and simple.  Many innovative cryptocoins have introduced interesting technologies and economic models, but all of those features actually damage their ability to be used as currency.  Those that come closest in features fail in various and diverse ways such that their distant miniscule liquidity is a profound and persistent handicap.

I have always said that if a superior currency were to emerge, I would change my allegiance as circumstances dictated.  I see less and less likelihood of such an eventuality with each passing million USD of liquidity added to XMR.  No, this is not a pump and dump.  It is one tiny step, with leaps and bounds yet to come, and every inch of the way is hard fought, and every victory well-earned -- some paid for dearly. It is earned primarily by excellence in technology, and secured by honest and transparent dealings.

There are at least 20 trillions of USD in wealth held privately, away from prying eyes, extortionists, thieves, and kidnappers, which currently rely on very illiquid instruments, and some significant proportion of those trillions will need to pass through the eye of our little needle at some point.  I believe that our tiny trickle will be compelled to grow into a mighty torrent of liquidity, through many disruptive stages over several years.  And it has not begun but one ten thousandth of the way yet.

XMR technology continues a long methodical and responsible march towards a balance of those specific features required to function as an international fully distributed private currency, without counterparty risk, without vulnerability to the dictat of a central authority.  The management of such an enterprise is frought with pitfalls, as nearly every cryptocoins project has demonstrated. Yet the meritocratic grass-roots development regime of XMR has avoided these traps nimbly, with a lot of hard work, motivated by a vision of positive social value and of just and worthy personal reward deriving from that honest added value.  

I am encouraged and energized to be a small part of such an economy, and grateful for the opportunity to participate in some small way in the project of making the world a freer, safer, more just place for generations to come.

I totally agree with you,I have read a lot of articles about monero and it was way back 2015 and it is just now 2016 that they are making aware the best quality of monero this is the coin to watch this 2016 so get more of it today ..

So I think we have our answer: Major pump and dump, based on what happened today on Polo.

It is at .8 cents now, nothing major. You are incorrectly calling variations a dump. People who have followed stock markets might be laughing at you

Monero was (and still is) badly under valuated.
Some (very nice!) new development happened there, a new version also came out lately.

Those are all good ingredients for the price to rise.
However, it's also something the seasoned speculators can use for a pump and dump.

I think that's still to early to say what actually happens on the market.

The filming, facial recognition, location tracking, behavioural analysis. In the future, our cities will buzz with drones that will police the streets. Let's hope whoever possess the private keys to the machines chooses to use them wisely, and not throw the switch that turns their dissenters into criminals.

People throw away their privacy and hand it to centralized systems in the faint belief that democracy will prevail. What will actually prevail, I fear, is the force within us humans that has prevailed for millennia...

They say that eth is way overpriced. So exactly who decides what is the correct price of a coin?

There is a simple way to determine the tendency of the actual price of a currency: PQ=MV.

Rational pricing theory says that (ignoring risk adjustments), the rational present price is bounded by the expected future price, discounted by the interest rate.

Usually if people disagree about the fair value, it is because they have different estimates of the breakdown of future eventualities by case, or of the probabilities assigned to those cases.

In short: I do.  And I decided that ETH is too high, but XMR is too low.

The Ethereum price looks over priced when it was $7. But I think it is reasonablly priced at around $3-5.

Agree with this statement. I think we are seeing this play out. Time will tell..

can the reason be the dao attacker buying XMR to wash his BTC earned with margin trading?