Bitcoin Forum

when ASIC comes out,

everyone mining with a graphics card is going to switch to litecoin, but will not be as optimistic on litecoin and will sell the litecoins as they come in.
this will crash the litecoins and will present the best buying opportunity their ever was?

20% likely....


m'yah......wats up doc

the mass of gpu miners is significantly different. and shortly after block reward halve; miners realized bitcoin was still more profitable to mine

Quite possible. Besides NMC I think LTC is one of the oldest Alt currencies that's still actively traded.

Will keep an eye out.

over a year old. can't find original thread

sep or aug maybe oct 2011

Any services/goods available for LTC?? never came across any.

Litecoinglobal.com - Exchange with the most assets.
Ltc-arcade.net - gambling site

Wait, what? BTC/LTC is sitting at .004 now, when it was .007 before the halving in November. People started flipping their GPUs over to LTC and dumping anything they made right to BTC, dropping the price.

So your logic is more miners == higher price?
Not miners drive the price, it's supply and demand that drives the price. Demand doesn't really change so it's doubtful that there's more buyers, but with more miners, there's more potential sellers, simply because there's nothing else besides BTC that they could buy with LTC.

One needs a good imagination to dream of a rising price here.  :)

This. It's been proven that price drives difficulty, so I can't understand why everyone things that adding MORE gpus on top of the already volatile LTC market will make it any more stable. Hell, the LTC difficulty has been bouncing up and down since the reward half. If the price had gone up and it was worth it, all those people hopping LTC would just stay. If the LTC market can't even handle those who are hopping, why should it handle even more GPUs?

Don't bother trying to use some logic.  It is is just hope and magic.   People buying tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of coins hoping it follows the same path as Bitcoin and they become millionaires within a year or two.

after hopping they saw bitcoin be just as profitable and kept switching until litecoin was not more profitable ever to mine. now we have the hardware ltc miners on it, maybe a little more hashrate than we had before the halving

ltc usd ony went down from 8 cents to 6.2 cents

comparing ltc to btc when btc is having big rallies is misleading

I guess logic = $32/bitcoin 1.5 years ago?

Logically the price of bitcoin goes up and down, so does the litecoin price. It goes up and down.

Litecoin ponzi debunked by D&T!!!  :o :o :o :o :o

The reason the difficulty goes up and down is because it adjusts 4 times faster than bitcoin. Bitcoin difficulty going up and down now too...so your point is what? That they both have diff that go up and down? LOL! :D :D :D

Supply is constant regardless of number of miners

therefore prices are a direct result of demand

You might have noticed  that I didn't say anything about the supply, but about more potential sellers.

Sure, the overall supply is constant, with more miners, that supply is also spread across more people.
What do these people do, besides selling for BTC?
I don't actually get why there are ANY buyers at all, but with more miners the number of buyers probably doesn't change.
More potential sellers + same number of buyers == lower prices.

But hey, dream your dream, it's all yours, it might come true someday. ;)

So we've established that the Supply will remain the same, due to the design of LTC. I suspect that the Demand will also remain the same. The demand is what increased the price.

So the Demand, Supply, and Price will all remain roughly the same. But when 1000 new GPUs switch to the market, the difficulty will double. So the supply remains regulated, but it becomes now twice as hard to produce that supply. Each miner earns a smaller and smaller share, to the point where it's not profitable. We've already seen this with the BTC reward half, and it's only going to get worse.

What do people do with gold bullion?  Eat it?

You hoard it until it's worth more.  I think it's reasonable to assume that the more money it costs you to produce, the less likely you are to sell it.

Alt coins are inferior to bitcoins!, I would rather CPU mine bitcoins than GPU mine litecoins XD

Oohhh...I suppose that explains the stomach aches :(

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=alltime&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

LOL
Are you serious? I guess not.
If you want to hoard it, ok.
What I don't get is why you think it'll become worth more.
Higher prices come with a growing economy and have nothing todo with how hard or costly something is to produce, with more miners there is no growing LTC-economy, the demand doesn't grow.

People switching their GPUs to LTC probably just do it, because they might get more BTC that way, at least that's the only reason I can think of. So it's BTC they want, not LTC.
When there's actually no other use for LTC, all those people want to sell their LTC for BTC as quickly as possible, result is a lower price, not a higher one.

But that's just my opinion,
it's your life, your choice.

Umm..you might want to take a step back and do some research on micro and macro economics...

Well thats a really well balanced un-biased statement...You really add value to the Crypotocoin community

What about...."I would rather kill myself than ever accept a LTC coin..."

You should join Al-BitCoinda and fight against this evil infadels who are trying to repress BTC and go join the JiHAD

Yup

This is about where I'm gonna stop posting in the thread, it's entering the shenanigans-zone.  The only other thing I have to say is that I've been mining both BTC and LTC for a few years now and as far as I can tell the price has little to do with anything that makes a lot of sense aside from the network hash rate/difficulty.  Difficulty can be both a leading and lagging indicator of price.  If you've ever traded equities or commodities you know that the best and easiest way to make money is to just seek out something you believe to be unvalued and hoard it for as long as possible.  I'm totally happy to be mining at the low difficulty of the current LTC network because it's netting me more LTC, and I'm not spending that LTC any time soon.

 ;D I just feel that other crypto currencies designed off of bitcoin (like solidcoin for example) kindof devalue bitcoins themselves, I think that some people go "wtf are all these "coins" and why do they have any value to them" And generally they have value because they can be easily converted to btc

Not really, because nobody gives a f*ck about them.

If anything they take momentum from each other and leaves BTCitcoin as the reference cryptocurrency.

Altcoins do not "devalue bitcoins" or "take momentum."

Altcoins add value and momentum to Bitcoin by expanding the cryptocash ecosystem, speeding up innovation and providing additional instances of the basic schema (with tweaked parameters) for comparison.  Plus providing redundancy, which is essential for critical systems.

Namecoins are a special case.  They complement Bitcoin and may eventually be needed to ensure network resiliency in the event of regulatory interference.

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.  Translated into economics, competition is a powerful measure of validation (especially for emergent disruptive technology).

If "nobody gives a f*ck about" altcoins, they would not have value.  But the markets say they do, and even tell us the exact exchange rates.

I disagree with your first scentence, But the rest is bangon

Then you agree with this?


I agree with it and found it to be well stated.

If you take a look at the actual features of some of the altcoins and compare them you can see why some of them are more likeable than others. Premined coins for example are less preferable for obvious reasons.

Bitcoin is great, but it doesn't mean that technological progress or people's interest will stop there. It proves the concept can work and does work. However, some things could be improved that can't be changed anymore with Bitcoin without changing the entire algorithm or creating a huge amount of fuzz.

Waiting for confirmation times is one of those things, the amount of coins generated could be another. Exactly because Bitcoin is so valuable I find it hard to believe that bitcoin will be used much to buy everyday items for 0.00006324 Bitcoins for example. Even if there are micro Bitcoins and whatnot, it just isn't very convenient. It doesn't mean that Bitcoin won't be useful as a storage of value, I just don't feel like moving say half of my belongings around in Bitcoins ever so often.

Then, exchanging one cryptocurrency to another may in itself be a service because it offers people not only a means of speculation (seemingly the most favorable of all services in the entire crypto-world, including btc) but a means of hedging against other currencies, especially Btc and USD. You can do this with NMC, or LTC or which ever coin you think is most promising/useful for the future.

Extreme caution is good advice with any alt-currency, but so it is for bitcoin. Bitcoin has "made it" to a realm where people think it won't fail anytime soon, but just because services are offered now doesn't mean this was in any way forseeable in the past. So, before you judge an altcoin keep in mind that the present state of services must not necessarily mean these services will not be created.

Finally, some altcoins are described as being pump and dumps or pyramid schemes. This may be the case for some or many of the altcoins. However, I wouldn't recommend buying Btc at 17 $ either to be honest. Someone always sits at the top of the food chain.

Hi!

It seems that there is some FUD around here, just want to give you some facts:

- More miners doesn't mean more LTC to sell. The supply is fixed, it's the same amount whatever there is 1 or 46644326 miners. The supply will simply be divided in more parts than before.

- Miners are also people. What strengthen an economy is the people behind. The more people there is, the better the chances of that economic domain will gain in value. So having more miners mining LTC is the best thing that could happen to that currency, simply because more people join the crowd. Also, those miners are high-valued people, since they are the backbone of any crypto-currencies. No miners = no BTC or LTC.

- LTC is ASIC-resistant. You cannot make a dedicated ASIC like the BTC ones for LTC. Why? Because Scrypt, the algo behind the LTC use clock speed AND memory. You get the best performance by balancing the performance between those twos and the best tools on the market that can provide that kind of balance are GPUs. GPUs are ASIC with dedicated memory, so having a start-up like BFL coming in and trying to beat AMD and nVidia in that category is almost absurd. Because of that, it creates a sort of "safe-haven" for GPUs in the crypto-currencies world.

It doesn't mean that Litecoin is going to succeed. Companies offering high-processing computing like Coinlab is trying to do right now or like GPUMax tried to do could certainly use those GPU. The biggest competitor to Litecoin is not Bitcoin, it's those probable HPC businesses.

I would even say that I'm a little worried about the possible mass exodus of BTC miners if ASIC shows up. Some BTC miners are going to make the switch, but many others are not buying into ASIC. Difficulty and network hashpower are relative numbers. The security is not made by having higher numbers, but by having those numbers backed by the biggest amount of people. The less people there is, the easier it is to attain the 50+1%. Having less people hashing BTC is not something I would qualify as "good".

What will happen? I don't know. We're living in an interesting time.

On the contrary, alt coins usually improve on the Bitcoin model in some way. However, Bitcoin is, and will always be, the purest form of crypto-currency.
A first-of-its-kind digital currency designed by an anonymous genius, not looking for fame or riches, but to free people of their dependency on currency controlled and regulated by special interest groups.

In that sense, yes, all the other alts are inferior.

++2

Totally Agree its about people Not GPU's or HashRate....

"Alright sir that'll be 48.57 cryptos"

"here you go" *beep*

"payment received; ok your change is one satoshi and 43 Litecoin, have a good day"c

....OMG

I See the furture :D :D :D

Please don't move your GPU's to LTC...

More for me.

how many GPU's at your disposal?

What market? lol

Try to make any significant movement of capital to LTC or any of the lesser altcoins.

Enough to pay all my bills. :)

LTC to BTC is already going downhill fast, even with the 'news' that Avalon shipped. People dumping LTC preemptively?

Does make me wonder who is even buying Litecoins in the first place. Not that I mind, I've sold plenty of Litecoins for Bitcoins, even though I wonder what people do with them :D

look at LTC in USD terms.

if you compare gold to bitcoin all the time it looks like gold is losing value but its not

http://www.ltc-charts.com/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-usd&market=btc-e

???

less volatile lately; you like?

not I

i'll be selling all my stuff and getting out entirely. 

and nogleg will be recommissioned for a different purpose!

Do u want to sell you GPU's to me ...lol...serious lol  ???

how do you feel now adam? holding your ground

i have a bid for LTC, its low, and gets close to getting filled every once in a while, I'm hoping to see more GPU mine the shit out of LTC and fill my bid.

During the last two weeks :

Network hashrate has increased from 400 to 1,800 Gh
LTC has gone from 0.06 to 0.4 USD
LTC has gone from 0.004 to 0.01 BTC.

These are the facts ladies and gentlemen and you can speculate how you wish about them.

I noticed that for a while LTC stayed relatively constant against BTC and concluded that the rally with BTC was dragging up the value of LTC. LTC was riding the coattails of BTC.

Now I note LTC appears to be rallying independantly of BTC. I suspect that, with all the publicity lately surrounding BTC, miners who have a choice between retiring their rigs or mining LTC choosing the later and investors who wished they had speculated on BTC finding out about LTC, this will continue.

No doubt the LTC economy needs to grow, but this growth would have to be a natural progression resulting from an increased number of people involved in that economy. I believe that is what we are seeing now.

Yes, LTC is underdeveloped compared to BTC, however when one considers it's youth, and that it's progression is eased by increasing interest in, and acceptance of BTC, I would say it's not time to write it off just yet. ;)

forgot to mention.............

ASIC will crash Litecoin to higher than before the great litecoin rally of 2013  8)

2TH of btc miners down, 18TH to go  ;D

maybe 20% will switch to litecoin :)

2TH=2GH litecoin mining power. our network is only 2Ghash everyone remember........ MUAHAHAH!!!

What I don't get is why these GPU miners are keeping the LTC instead of selling them for BTC, as OP predicted, and as I would have guessed.

It looks like a few GPU farms have made the switch to LTC, and so now the LTC that would usually go straight on the market is being held, thus limiting the supply.

This is great as long as they hold them, or sell them very slowly, because once they dump them, it's gonna be a looooong way down for the LTC exchange.

do you fail to forget the amount of LTC being created stays the same and is adjusted every 2.5 days?

Are you high? That's exactly how a GPU farm would cause a shortage of LTC, by having a large portion of the network, thus lowering the number of coins going to everyone else...

420, I can tell by your pots you have a lot of time invested in Ltc. And that you pray it will be rising to the stars and back.

The simple fact is currently all that is funding this PUSH in Litecoins is the flock of miners rushing to Ltc as they are unable to continue to mine Btc efficiently. As well as several people with large amounts of Btc looking to diversify there assets believing that Ltc is going Bullish. (which it most certainly is) This "rise" is unnatural, and not sparked by demand but simply by speculation with no real market liquidity.

Currently the price is holding at the .70 mark, with several large and rapid drops into the .45-.55 range. Ltc is immensely unsteady and the current vigorous fluctuations show this. There is confidence in Ltc to support the current price. Unfortunately it will not last. I don't even give it till the end of the month before dropping down rapidly to .15-.25

Please feel free to quote me on this at the months end.

and you're saying it was not happening before in any significance

yoodles you're free to make bets and bet in the betsofbitco.in
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1321
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1322
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1305
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1297

a lot of those bets should be ended but you get the idea, make your own

Quoted. Good luck  ;)

So who determines if a rise in a price of something is natural or unnatural?

I guess then bitcoin's rise in price in 2010 and 2011 was unnatural right? Oh wait, none of the arguments against liteoin's appreciation apply to bitcoin, because it was the first right? Isn't that the logic that most BTC supporters that dislike LTC use?

Here's a potential group of people who will be cashing out their Litecoins the moment they get them - the vendors of the new Atlantis underground LTC market (similar business model as that of Silk Road). I doubt this new market will generate any significant increase in Litecoin demand, at least in the beginning, since there's nothing on Atlantis that one can't buy on Silk Road - so the buyers will be folks who are already holding some amount of litecoins (hey, free drugs and stuff).

However, the fact that there _is_ a Litecoin-based market is definitely good news for this currency. As far as Atlantis' success, I think they will succeed just because of demand for the services they offer. I've checked out the site, the design and functionality are pretty solid, and just a few days after announcement there's already plenty of stuff to order. Who knows how much profit Silk Road has been raking in due to being the only stable underground market - $millions a month?

Now, what will happen if Silk Road decides to add support for litecoins?

P.S. It seems like being some sort of middleman (Mtgox, Silk Road) is the surest way of making big bucks, rather than speculating or mining them 'coins. So I wonder, why aren't any of you guys with 1000's of posts "selling the shovels during gold rush", so to speak? Or are you? You know, that first-to-the-market advantage is helluva thing and there's a _lot_ of cryptocoin-centered services that have yet to be implemented.

Why would they cash out immediately if Litecoin's value is appreciating? 

Obviously they want their site to succeed, so they want to keep Litecoin stable. Dumping coins would be stupid.

Finally, don't they need to keep plenty of coin on hand to pay people (SEO, admins, whatever)?

Just randomly passing by.  ;D

Litecoin is likely to die out just like every other alt-coin. No one is seriously invested in it. They only do it to convert to BTC and that makes it likely to collapse at any second.

Wrong.

Litecoin's market cap = $68,152,758 usd

I know of people that hold 100,000+ coins

I can't find any decent stats on LTC. Is there a site like blockchain.info, but for LTC?

http://cryptochart.com/

http://bitcoindashboard.com/litecoins.php

http://ltc.block-explorer.com/charts

Here's a few good ones.

We have to look at the entire picture. I predict Litecoin doing what Bitcoin did but faster as Bitcoin has already blazed ahead of it, which should foster quicker adoption.

But moreso, Bitcoin will soon go beyond the reach of mere mortals and weekend traders. Mining is about to go insane with ASIC for BTC, also involving a large upfront investment to get a piece of. 2nd generation coiners have kinda missed the boat at this point unless you can jump right in with either high per Bitcoin cost or high investment in mining gear. But, there is Litecoin, a far cheaper alternative investment, and with ASIC driving GPUs and FPGAs out of Bitcoin, they will find a new home mining alternate currencies. As Bitcoin moves out of reach for average investors, attention will turn to Litecoin.

Essentially Litecoin is about where Bitcoin was 2 years ago. Bitcoin made a name for cryptocurrencies ahead of it, I think the progression of the markets will go through phases as accessibility shifts. We may see the other altcoins start gaining traction as well someday. Who knows, but it will be damn interesting to see what happens now.

Amazing how OP and many other naysayers proven wrong about LTC adoption.

Now go suck a cock and feel sorry for yourself and your lost opportunity to have bought litecoins 2 months ago at $0.07 and now they are worth $4 a piece.

LOL ROFL LAWL HAHA  :P

Thanks for all the info, very interesting!

One of the main arguments I found all over again was that "there should be only one Cryptocurrency."

And I always felt like I was hearing  "Well, who needs a Euro or Yen if we have a damn Dollar, come on!" :D

++ "GO SUCK A COCK" Golden :D ...

Just following up here, have ASIC's come out yet for BTC?

+1

hopefully KnC will see the light .

Not quite, 2 weeks or so...

Is this a joke or have you been living under a rock? Visit the custom hardware subforum...

ASICs for Litecoin will not come for at least 1-2 years IMO. The price of LTC needs to support the cost of development.

Did you read the post? It's saying, that when ASIC's come out (Which they hadn't really in Q1 this year) that everyone would rush to litecoin with their GPU's and crash litecoin.

I'm asking, sarcastically of course, did litecoin die because ASIC's came out for BTC?

Ah... i apologize. I suffered from a temporary lapse in reading comprehension. I understand now. And you are certainly correct. Anyone that thought bitcoin ASICs would kill Litecoin is um... (redacted). I was positive Litecoin would become popular as a new alternative for GPU mining and thus become more popular and valuable. That's part of the reason I was buying up used mining equipment around the bitcoin reward halving last year.

Hahaha, nice necro. There is some good stuff in that thread  ;D

Same thing happened when BTC asics came out, we have a small dip and then the network is stronger for the increased computing power and the price went up shortly after.

you can't compare BTC though..

and i think the OP is wrong ..i figured Scrypt-Asics would strengthen Litecoin (and maybe a couple of the other big ones) and slaughter other crappy scrypt clones
that is precisely what has happened..

and..

i was argue with about that all along every across the web non stop.

i was right and i told you so ;)

I guess ASICs are good for coins.... It means there is enough interest in them to generate hardware specifically to mine them. What other coins have ASIC hardware specifically made for that coin and that coin only?

.

Is this a second resurrection on the same thread?