Bitcoin Forum

Would you even define it as an e-currency instead of virtual property? Since you are holding virtual valuables which you sell the same way Call of Duty is being sold on Steam?

e-currency sounds lame... how about just.. currency?

I thought we stettled up on "magical internet money" already. :)

Ok let me rephrase that, if a bank decides to reverse the payment in claim of you selling ecurrencies can you take them to court and hope to hold them accountable of paying you the damages not taking into account the likeliness of the ignorance of the judge about the technical aspect and the probability of him raising an eyebrow?

Lol, This.

In Europe Bitcoins can be defined as virtual currency (I'm not even sure it has a legal definition), but they do not fall in the definition of electronic currency as electronic currency must represent a claim on the issuer expressed in fiat.

Internet points. Now you really can win "2 internets."

Yep, that is really the closest to what bitcoins actually are. Just points on a scale from 0 to just under 2,1 quadrillion.

I suggest we amend it to "magical intarwebz monies."

This was a legit legal question yet you guys have derailed it into a childish discussion... amazing..

I think bitcoin falls under whatever classification you give to wow gold, linden dollars, or eve isk....IMO, its virtual property that is being used as a currency.

Magic internet money works too.

Maybe its called a cryptocurrency for a reason?

Quite wrong thinking you got there, here, have some resources to read before getting a shot at it.


http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/10/30/the-ecb-report-on-bitcoin-and-virtual-currencies.html

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/14971234703/coinlab-bitcoin-primer

Its not wrong, its simply a difference of opinion (the ECB's opinion doesn't represent the "whole of the law").  Other countries may not follow/agree with the ECB's report, and the ECB (in my opinion) likely ruled that way to protect thier ability to regulate it if it is deemed necessary (basically, just being proactive). The jury is far from in on how the banking communities and governments across the world are going to treat it.

That said, i still think BTC has more in common with ISK or something than a virtual version of the euro or usd.

I consider bitcoin as digital gold. Is gold a currency? No.

I consider it a currency. If you go for something official though, the BAFIN (German bank regulation) defines Bitcoin as electronic instrument of payment or units of value, but states that it does not qualify as e-money.

Also they state in the same sentence that it's legal to use them as payment for goods and services(just adding)


http://www.bafin.de/SharedDocs/Veroeffentlichungen/DE/Merkblatt/mb_111222_zag.html


Hope this helps.

This sounds about right.

You should have put it up in the "Legal" section (along with the hundred other threads asking similar questions) ... instead you threw it into the mosh pit. Really, what did you expect?

Bitcoins are nothing ... yet they could be anything. Their ephemeral nature is going to be twisting lawyers, politicians and judges minds into pretzels for decades (that's one of the reasons I luv the tech.  :D ).

First, you need to define what is a "bitcoin"?

Is it the private crypto key?, is it the blockchain ledger entry?, is it the software that looks up the database? or the software that can transfer value between keys?, is it the miners that secure the transactions entries? or etc? ... start there.

Thanks for your input guys!

bitcointalk is starting to resemble 4chan with all the low quality users registering.

Yeah, those low quality users like the person who posted this thread under "Bitcoin Discussion" instead of putting it where it belongs, in "Legal Discussion".

When asking this question, you really need to state which definition you want to use. Are you asking if bitcoins are an electronic currency under some legal definition, or are you asking if Joe Schmoe on the street would call bitcoins an electronic currency? Legal definitions can vary from place to place.

e-asset, not currency, no one will use this as currency if the price just double every year

The habit of lumping bitcoins with diverse gift card-like systems like Linden Dollars, as the ECB does, is just to confuse, and belittle bitcoin. Bitcoins really is money.

The real gold in that report is the chapter of Reputational Risk (page 45).

"If the use of virtual currency schemes grows considerably, incidents which attract press coverage
could have negative impacts on the reputations of central banks, if the public perceives the
incidents as being caused, in part, by central banks not doing their jobs properly. As a consequence,
this risk should be considered when assessing the overall risk situation of central banks."

Yes, covering their asses is their most important goal. They are not worried about the system itself, only their own reputation.

The report: www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf

Actually, I'd argue that the thrust of the ECB here is a lame attempt to bring bitcoin regulation under their jurisdiction where they have none at all.

They have as much jurisdiction over bitcoin as they have over tribes in outer-mongolia trading shiny stones, that is the reality that they hate.

ECB, and any central banks, have their Monopoly monies to experiment wildly with, we have ours .... just quietly, eff off.

According to Australian legislation Bitcoin does not fit the definition of e-currency:

From AUSTRAC's website: http://www.austrac.gov.au/threshold_transactions.html (http://www.austrac.gov.au/threshold_transactions.html)


The actual legislation (AML/CTF 2006 Act) reads:

From reading through the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 there is no thing specifically prescribing Bitcoin as an electronic currency as far as I can tell. All the wording relates to people transferring fixed value money between institutions.

I'm sure this legislation will be up for review soon though.

Thanks guys, you really are great  ;)

"Bitcoin's price has now exceeded 14,149.50 US Dollars.It could be when the buyer did not immediately complete the payment of 1 Bitcoin already menyetuh number 16000.50 US Dollar.Bitcoin's cheap price increase is very good for investment, but if it continues like this will be very difficult to make transaction tool ". so in my opinion, it is still difficult to declare bitcoin as e-currency. Maybe as a digital asset and investment, I agree.

At the moment I consider bitcoins as a digital asset, because currently most of the users are preferring to hold the bitcoins for making good profit in the future and very small percentage of users are actually making transactions by using the bitcoins.

The definite term for it is cryptocurrency. But if you descrbe, yup it is pretty much an e-currency or a virtual currency. However, in today's time, it is not yet fully utalized as a currency or as a money (means for exchangs for service and consumer products). Although some stores and companies are now recognizing it, there is still a lot to penetrate because below 50% of the people are not yet convinced that Bitcoin is the future of money. Some even see it just as a bubble.

According to me , it has different names at different levels .
If i am holding bitcoin in some sort of offline wallet and not using it for selling or trying to change the bitcoin into my fiat it remains a virtual currency .
The virtual currency which is known to me but not to anyone else .
The moment i convert bitcoins into fiat using some local exchange , it becomes an e-currency for me as well as for the bank and is known to me as well as my bank .

yes bitcoin is ane currency because it is an online currency for this currency transaction you need to have an internet connection

E-currency is not the right way to describe Bitcoin. As existing E-currency in FIAT is issued by Government and Bitcoin being decentralized should better be known as virtual currency or transferable smart contract. Moreover, BTC is now taken as investment tool so people even start calling it a Digital asset.

Bitcoin is a digital asset and not  just an e-currency but something has a value like gold.. Bitcoin can be use as peer to peer transactions and commodity. Bitcoin will can be use around the world by sending money online..

The bottom line Bitcoin is more directed to a digital gold I guess, it's a more spelled out on digital than e-currency due to its modernity that growing / developing according to the development of a more advanced era.
For me Bitcoin is more than just valuable, it's more very really precious and due its value that was tends to increase.. it's makes a rising to more popular, it becomes a new thing that's so special for everyone, which provides many benefits.

If you are asking from a legal perspective, then that's different. It would depend on your own governing laws and any existing precedents..
Only a court could probably give you a truly definitive answer here.

In most jurisdictions, cryptocurrencies are a grey area, because its still so early in the whole picture.
Many crypto-centered cases are a first of their kind so there isn't always a precedent to define it one way or another.

If buying and selling cryptocurrencies is not illegal where you are, then you may have a case against the bank in this instance.

It would be best to find a lawyer that can advise you correctly, or at the very least, seek out Legal Aid to determine whether you have a case or not.
Is there even a legal definition for Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies where you are? You'd need to start here..

Yes, bitcoin can do transactions online also. Bitcoin like virtual payment but we can do investment in bitcoin.
Bitcoin more profitable more than gold. So bitcoin value will increase every year. I believe 1 altcoins still bitcoin.

Yes, right. And now there are many types of cryptocurrency. Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency.