Bitcoin Forum

Everybody seems to assume that the halving will cause the price of Bitcoin to rise. I assume that they believe that miners will sell fewer coins on the open market. If miners sell directly to investors, then the drop may not have an immediate impact on sales. Also, some coins may be retained for investment by the miners. So my question is - how many mined coins are sold on the open market?

Miners can keep their BTC and even do not sell them, waiting for BTC price increase.  How large is open market BTC volume - it is very hard to say - as BTC market is not regulated by anyone.  :)

Where does everyone else sell their coins? Exchanges, OTC, through localbitcoins etc... Miners sell their coins there too.

As for how many you'd have to ask the miners themselves, I guess... But I don't think any big operation will disclose their numbers to you (or anyone of us) in this forum :D

Of course miners will sell their coins to some exchange or sell it to someone, but they won't sell all of their Bitcoin at once. Instead, they will sell their bitcoin as much as they need.

being a miner myself i know that i sell some at the exchanges and hold some in the hope of future gains.  ;D

Do you convert to fiat only the amount required to cover the mining costs?

Or you cover part of mining costs with fiat (the equivalent of investing more at the mining operation)?

I think they just keep it till price increases, i am just assuming this as if i was a miner i would do the same  :D

Many miners hold their bitcoins, not all of them sell their coins instantly.
Holding is a good strategy right now, I don't see that many people selling their bitcoins.

That only works if Mom pays rent & electricity.

its hard to answer,i dont knowbecause i'm not miner,and i dont have friends who mine bitcoins,i just guess that miners sell their coins to market,but with several period,they can control bitcoin price on that exchange if they sell so many bitcoins.

heh yea maybe but I stay away from mining on my pc anyways. If I ever mine I would use one of cloud miner lel

Yes, only home hobbyist miners who spend less than a few hundred dollars a month on the mining electricity and other costs will be able to adopt a mine and hold strategy for very long. Once you scale past a certain size, especially if you need to rent out a place coupled with higher electrical bills (thousands a month), you begin have too many monthly expenses to pay for to not sell at least enough BTC to cover those expenses. Unless of course you are really rich, at which point it may be better to just buy and sell and not worry about all the mining hassle to begin with.

I guess they try to sell them around through excganges and through this forum as well.
It is important that they don't sell them all in the same place so that the price doesn't fall too low.

My interest is in how many mined coins are sold. If an exchange owns a mining firm, then those coins will go into stock, and will only be sold if demand is there. If a pension fund owns a mining farm so that it can obtain coins at a discount, then those coins won't hit the market. If miners decide that returns are low, and sell their business to a pension fund, then that will withdraw those coins. Obviously there are many more possibilities. With the current value of Bitcoin, the halving is probably going to change the supply chain for Bitcoins.

You're not going to find the necessary data -- most of the farms aren't publicly traded, so aren't required to disclose their financials. So they do not, because why would they?
>miners decide that returns are low, and sell their business to a pension fund
:D

The big  scale miners would have to be pretty dim and desperate to sell on exchanges. You'd be far better off setting up an ongoing buy with OTC customers. No slippage. No middle men. No way of getting shut down.

There won't be much or any difference on the exchanges post halving. There are always plenty of coins up for sale.

There's no exact way to measure how many mind coins are being sold on the open market but to give a guess, I would say around 40% - 60% are being sold. Mostly miners use exchanges but in the past , when I still used to mine, I sold some using facebook (got few local buyers) and did everything almost online. They needed some fractions of BTCitcoin and I asked them to wire the equal amount to my bank and then I sent them the required amount as well. AFAIK back in the days, social networks where also a large market for buy and sell of BTCitcoin (not sure now).

no they cannot, they need to sell at least 1/4 of they earning for maintanance and electricity, so i believe they sell them on exchange and maybe privately? but i doubt, mostly are sold on exchange

I don't think miners sell it them selves as their job is to mine. They allow delgated people to do that for them.
Usually they put it in to exchanges to try and make more or invest it.

I think your reply is some what to the point. They wont sell the bitcoins but they do trading and some of them i think started the gambling sites and some of them have started the cloud mining sites. like this they invest and earn on that investment.

I guess they sell their coins at the same place that everyone else does. If they are devoted only to mining as a job, probably they sell as much as they need for their expenses, and save the rest.

I may be off-base here, but the below is some crude arithmetic showing my *guesses* (and the more guesses, the less accurate will be my final figures...):

1)  "Let's say" F2Pool (one of the largest, currently at some 25% of total hash-power) wins 25% of the blocks in a day.  

24 hours * 6 blocks per hour * $235 per BTC * 25 BTC per block * 25% = $211,500 won by "F2Pool" per day.

2)  Let's also say they have 500 miners (I have no idea if that would be accurate, just painting a picture here).  They would then have to pay off the various miner-members for "their share" of the winnings.

3)  "F2Pool" would also have to pay various expenses: electricity, management fees, *bribes*, etc., etc.  Let's call all of those expenses at 30% of revenue.

4)  ($211,500 / 500 miner-members) * 0.7 (after expenses) = $296 per average miner per day.  Again, I would *guess* that the average miner at "F2Pool" would be rather large, larger than the MEDIAN miner (who *might* be some guy with 20 Antminers in his basement).

The above "math" is merely an exercise of dubious value, and really more meant to invite comments from those more knowledgeable about BTC mining economics...

Perhaps the key question is how much do the pool OWNERS make per block?  That would give a better clue to how many BTC they must sell to maintain their business.  Then we would know approximately how many BTC they must exchange.

Miners will earn fewer coins.  Even if they sell them all as soon as they get them, there will be fewer new coins generated every day.

Miners are rich enough to mine and make a profit. That is a hard thing to do. They won't just sell their coins straight after halving. They aren't that stupid.

I think individual miners go to bitcoin exchanges to sell their bitcoins just like you and I sell our.As far big organised institutional miners,I think most of them hold their bitcoins in order to control the price and dictate the market

Yeah. I think the big mining pool got an account on the largest exchanges and enabled autosell.
This way they can cash out their rewards directly to fiat to pay for electricity bills

I do not know for sure how they sell wherein.
but I'm sure if they sell after getting a lot of bitcoin. and they sell it when the price is high.  ???

Miners have no controls over Price increase of bitcoin. They can only contribute to decrease in price. Only investors are in a position to increase or decrease the price of bitcoins.

Yes - but are some investors miners, or are some miners investors?

The miners can manipulate the price if they wanted to, or should I rather say, if they can afford it. The longer they hodl, the higher the price, but the electricity and other expenses has to be paid, so

this cannot be done for a long period. If the price climb too high, more of them will start to sell and the price will go down again. The halving will surely have a impact on the profitability of mining, and

some of them will be forced to stop mining for a while. Most of the trade are done on Chinese exchanges.

Exactly. Any endeavor with on-going expenses like mining will require converting some of the product (in this case BTC) into cash to pay for those expenses. You might be able to hold out a month or two if the price goes down. but then even this can be a risky strategy. If the price would continue to move down, when you are finally forced to convert some BTC into fiat, you might have to sell more than if you just did it at regular intervals.

Also as a side note, I believe I read somewhere that the biggest miners have actually negotiated with large buyers private sales of the generated BTC, so for this group of people the daily price changes are not as big of a concern. I am sure any such agreements would have the BTC halving taken into consideration and payments adjusted accordingly when the time comes.

There is no easy way of knowing how many mined coins are in the open market. I guess the miners can find that out for you but it will take ages and a lot of headache.

I think miners sell only when they need money and keep the rest till prices rise. So most of their btc is in cold storage most times.

I have a friend who is mining alt coins and he told me he only sells enough to cover his bills, rent and food for the month and saves the rest. He is investing in more hardware if there is profit to be made like with Ethereum. Unfortunately he lost a lot of coins on Cryptsy when they stopped paying out. I think people should be very careful where they are selling coins now as the hackers go for the big exchanges.

Each miner had a strategy each to get the perks themselves, and every miner has the authority to keep them or sell them BTC. So the price of the Bitcoin is not dependent on the miners but depending on Market of BTC. The more the market needs the BTC and the fewer supplies BTC BTC price then the higher. Vice versa, but I believe the BTC will have a price that is very challenging for us and can benefit when using Bitcoin. The price depends on the market and the BTC can swap Price BTC is a transaction.

Large scale mining operations would typically sell enough to keep their operation running, paying for electricity and perhaps hardware in fiat.
I'd guess they just sell their coins at a trusted exchange.

Different mining operations have different practices, some will keep a large percentage of their profits in BTC, and some will exchange everything for fiat.
It would be interesting to see some statistics on this, I know a few operations have mentioned this in interviews etc.

I think they sell them over the counter to the Chinese exchanges for a discount, and then those (fee free exchanges) sell them for market value to their speculators.

Some of them are starting their own trading platforms to shift the coins:

http://www.coindesk.com/bitkan-1-6-million-series-a-bitmain/

yeah im curious too on how many coins do they sell, do they sell half of theyre mined or just enough to pay for theyre bills.

A lot of mined coin are sold in the market.

yes its just assume,i'm sure no one can make sure what will happen to bitcoin price when bitcoin halving come. miners will sell their coins to exchange,a big miner will have partners to sell their coins,its what i think so far.

I think during halving, miners would still sell some of their bitcoins for electricity and more. They probably sell it through trading. They could also control the price of bitcoins they are selling. They might also sell them through exchanges.

Miners may choose to do whatever they want but limited numbers of bitcoin is good for its price.

Miners would definitely retain most of the mined coins and play with few coins.

Holding bitcoin is also an investment.

But that is if indeed the price will go up due to halving. I'd be the first to celebrate the whole night.
yet they might all sell out if the opposite thing is going to happen. There is no assurance what will happen later so i have to also invest to some other altcoin just to make sure I won't lose all that i have.

Miners mined altcoins that has value on market, they will not exert effort on altcoins that has no value at all. They use hardware and electricity for daily use. So they must earn much higher to compensate there needs. If i they will mine bitcoin they will take a lot of time and effort because of the in deep difficulty from the hardware.Miners are with the country where the electricity is cheap and has a cold environment   for the cooling system of the miner. 

If miners will sell coins i think they will sell at trading sites online because im sure the price of btc will rise up this halving.Or they will sell it actual to a person with specific rates if bitcoin price will drop.There are many sites where miners can sell their bitcoins for real money.Or they will not sell it and store it and wait for price increase and then sell it when price rise ups.

if they do so in a routine there the bitcoin price will remain stable, but if they sell their bitcoin in same time. then panic will be created and the price may fall down to some extent. people will lose confidence and they will sell their bitcoin at a low rate

...

I read somewhere a while back -- perhaps this thread -- that some Chinese miners already have wholesale buyers for BTC they successfully mine.  Which gives the miners some CA$H to pay bills and the buyers the opportunity to lock in BTC.

That seems to make great sense.  Win/win.  I just wish I were a big enough BTC buyer to get in on that.  However, like retail buyers of gold, "we too can walk in the footsteps of Giants."  Meaning we too can get in on what looks like great investments for the future, all you have to do is:

1) pull the trigger

and

2) HODL with patience



Gold and BTC!

their same like us sell bitcoin at exchanger.. what is make you think they sell directly to investors?

They sell it on exchanges like Bitfinex, Huobi... I doubt that they're a lot of miners selling their coins outside of these platforms.

base in my experience now,..ahmmm i sell my coins in different exchange flatform, it depend were my coins listed in exchange, and then trade it,.sometimes i sell it to some of my friends who like to buy bitcoins  ;D :D

if they sgart selling the coin at the same time then it will create problem i think. but if they hold their bitcoin and do not create panic then i am hopeful that they will sell their coin in a high rate.

Miners sell their BTC in the same place with a lot of people, like exchange and not have the special place to sell their bitcoin from mining. They do not need a market but they need bitcoin price rising.

the miner's can sell their coins in different legitimate exchange flatforms.
or they can also sell it their friend, relatives or family who's engaged or involved here too.

Honestly we can say that easily because of they are selling some of their bitcoins for aying only for electricity bills and internet bills its a regular monthly billing.. but if the price will rise a good amount maybe they are selling large amount of bitcoin if they see the effect of the price will still stay holding more of their bitcoins.. we can see how much they can sell it they are holding much more bitcoins and i think it can not affect the price of they don't sell their all coins.. if they sell all mined coins huge dump price for bitcoins..