Bitcoin Forum

In order for BTC to take off it will require one basic component that does not exist yet... reliable and affordable mobile internet EVERYWHERE.

Yeah, I know, you're ready to pounce and tell me to wake up. Entertain me for a minute. Let me explain...

I live in the United States, about 40 miles from a city with a population of about 45,000. We have three choices for internet; dial up, satellite, or a mobile hotspot (if you can get a connection). Satellite is okay, but it is metered, so if you actually use it, it can be very expensive. Smartphones and hotspots are becoming more common, but they aren't very helpful unless we are close to the city. And dial up, actually, I am not sure you can even get that anymore.

Oh, I forgot to add that I am only fours hours drive from NYC.

I think people on here are putting the cart way before the horse. If you don't believe me, take a drive out to the country and try to use your smartphone. Of the several houses on my street, I am the only one that has access to the internet, mobile or otherwise. I live in the sticks. I explained Uber to about 20 coworkers a few weeks ago. Several of them said it would never work.  ;D (Just trying to paint a picture of what I see.)

So my question is,
How can this technology benefit the "unbanked" in developing countries within the next several years? Really, how close are we to smart contracts and self driving cars and a sustainable BTC price of >$1000?

I keep hearing how BTC is going to help the "unbanked" in developing countries... like that is going to happen in the next year or two. I keep hearing about Etherium, smart contracts, self driving cars. I saw a video on youtube of a prominent BTC person saying that we are almost there. He substantiated it by saying that self driving cars already exist and function. They may exist, but they wont function where I live. In fact, they wont function in most of the world. If I can't call my wife on the drive home from work, how the hell is my car going to drive itself?

For BTC to grow in the time frame many of you propose, developing countries would have to have cheaper and more reliable internet access than me, four hours outside of NYC?

Think about that. That is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around. 

I am not bashing BTC. I own a little and want to cash in someday just like everyone else. I see the potential. I am just trying to offer a perspective that I think most are overlooking.

And please, do not simplify what I am saying. Where I live, people just started using debit cards in place of their checkbooks, and are just now making their first internet purchases!

So even if the access to the internet improves, there is still a long time before the trust factor enters the equation.


Sorry, but three years from now, millions of people in the western world will still be writing checks, and millions in the the developing world will still be seeing the internet for the first time.

Well worldwide internet isn't 100% available yet but so what?  Look at everyone on smartphones and how that succeeded.  The world will catch up.

That's what I thought. Everyone is going to spot read what I wrote and simplify it. Read the last part. My argument is NOT about the internet service alone.

Let me spell it out...

Getting and using the internet is just the first step in a several year long process. Those that had AOL dial up in 1995, started using online banking in 2000. If they didn't get internet access until 2000, then they didn't start online banking until 2005. Do I need to continue?

The internet access was only one part of the delay.

 Router 4G LTE Wireless

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kNoiB3e1L._SL1000_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CCDM4UC/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00CCDM4UC&linkCode=as2&tag=blog0200-20&linkId=463ZV47ODJZMCWQM)


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41csXALrK8L.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013SCQ1IG/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B013SCQ1IG&linkCode=as2&tag=blog0200-20&linkId=WO5GMAV5A2CWTAO2)


Have You seen such devices?
Put it in highest place in the building or on pole with USB alimentation.

Mate you really are not seeing the bigger picture, and are very backward looking, thech can change over night, hold on to your hat over the next 3 years.... ;D

If 10% of the ones with proper internet would own BTC it would be enough to take off.
Your calculation is good for Dogecoin imo.

I think Google is working on this with the world wide blimp/weather balloon network they want to put in place.

Have you contacted your phone company about this? I was actually in your situation not that long ago and we finally figured out that we could get DSL out where we live. DSL runs over your phone line, but because it uses a different kind of signal (digital), it doesn't interfere with your phone service (analog). I know more people are dumping their land lines lately, but most houses are still wired for phone service and, if you have at least one functional phone jack in your house, you could probably get DSL.

But you are right about lack of Internet service being a possible obstacle for Bitcoin adoption. A lot of Internet companies never bothered to expand into disadvantaged regions because they think there's no market in areas where nobody can afford to pay for Internet service. One thing I'd like to see is free access to Wi-Fi in public places in these regions and everybody gets a cheap tablet. That would be a good start for getting more people on the road to access to things like Bitcoin and online marketplaces where they can buy and sell to their hearts' content. You'd think capitalists would love this idea of more people "earning money -- and spending money!"

Internet connectivity is growing with faster pace.Even when I would be done posting this,more people and area would be connected to internet.

If there is one problem that the BTC community doesn't need to worry about solving, it is this.  The amount of capital getting thrown at expanding the reach of the internet makes the Bitcoin market cap pale in comparison.

Bitcoin is still in a phase that cannot support mainstream adoption, the mempool gets clogged even with 3 transactions per second if they keep coming for a decent amount of time. There's a lot of discussion about this scalability issue at the moment and hopefully we'll see it being addressed in a viable way. On the plus side, pushing a bitcoin transaction (if you have the software installed on your machine) doesn't use up that much bandwidth, so someone could transact bitcoin in most of the world with a data plan and a mobile device.

I have actually thought of this and I agree that it is somewhat of a legitimate concern especially for third world countries where it is very difficult to access the internet with a speed good enough for doing stuff with Bitcoin. There are several unrelated projects which work to get internet access to everyone such as Google's Project Loon. However, I think the Bitcoin community should come up with their own project for Bitcoin specifically.

I think we should make a Bitcoin Radio network where nodes can connect to each other over radio to relay blocks and transactions. If we get a few cubesats then this radio network can be spread across the world and used for connecting people to Bitcoin without the need for internet.

Exactly. If it is a problem in some locations in USA, just imagine in less advanced coutries. But internet adoption will be enough to consider it an absolute success.

I've got family in Africa. You'd be pretty goddamn amazed where great coverage appears. I agree that it's kinda shitty in a lot of places but that's gonna change.

Bigger picture? Um, if I am 4 hours from NYC and I don't have reliable internet in 2016, who is missing the bigger picture?

Technology only changes quickly when there is a market to exploit, "mate."

The cost to bring high speed internet to remote areas is still too expensive relative to the potential profit.

People in Africa may have access to internet, just like I have ACCESS to internet. Access isn't the issue.

In order for this to be used as a currency, a person needs to be able to carry it with them. I sincerely doubt that rural areas in Africa are carrying a smartphone.

Moreover, IF this technology somehow makes its way into rural areas, it will be another several years before people trust enough to turn their money into a QR code.

There are many many more years to go before there are any real gains in bitcoin.

And I'll bet my BTC that the current price is higher than the ten percent. It'll take a lot more than 10 percent adoption to see the gains you think you'll see.

This is the reason I believe that fiat currencies will always be needed even if bitcoin is around forever.  There is a place for both to exist.

I think this is indeed an issue that any digital currency will need some sort of connectivities to work. Like what have been discussed, many companies are working on this with ideas such as wifi drones.

Let's look at the telephone network- just 100 years ago not many people has even heard of it... But now it is everywhere... This is just like the blocksize debate that, with time will solve itself.

Yes, that is sort of what I was saying. However, the second part is trust. Right now, the easiest way to purchase BTC is probably Coinbase. By easiest, I mean both simplicity and not intimidating. Local bitcoins does not look professional enough yet. The website looks like a scam to a newbie.

To purchase BTC on Coinbase, you have to supply a checking account number. That is also intimidating for most people. That is a huge, huge, obstacle.

Yes, this will change as tech progresses, but that isn't my point. My point is that for people that do not routinely use the internet, there is no way they are going to trust it with their money. You might as well ask them to go swimming in a pond full of piranhas.

Most of the people I know around my community still don't trust Amazon. They are intimidated by typing a credit card number on the computer.

Actually, I shouldn't say most. That is an exaggeration. I know a lot of people that are afraid to use Amazon.

to be a miner you need reliable and constant internet... and millions of dollars invested in equipment. and so if you can afford the ASICS then getting a couple satalite units tethered together is no issue

to be a full node requires reliable and constant internet... and the desire and motivation to not just be a user but to be a dedicated part of the network. there is no reason for everyone to be dedicated. and with an estimated 2mill people only 0.3% are running nodes. so i would say 0.3%-1% is a sufficient about of decentralized distribution ongoing.

as for regular users. if you have no internet then you wont know, want or need bitcoin. but even if you have basic internet just to write stuff on this forum. then you have enough internet capability to run a phone app/lite client.

I somewhat agree with the OP....I live in the mountains of California so there are places that are blacked out completely.  However, we're talking about the United States here with it's somewhat unique economical system.  We pay for what we want here....so, satellite service, while available in most areas, is costly.  In other regions of the world their economic system is different, so many have access to the internet via satellite or local "hotspots" which are provided to them by their economic structure.  There are also foundations, such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which not only provide satellite access in these regions but also provide the devices to connect to them as well.

So, yes, there are many spots in the US where access to the internet is precarious, but that's mostly a result of our economic system.  The world is pretty much blanketed by satellite service....whether or not one utilizes that service is just a matter of economics.  The same with prescription drugs in the US; they are available to us here in the US with a huge overhead, but they're cheap, if not free, in other regions.  The fact that internet service is difficult for some of us to connect to in the US is further evidence that our economic system needs to be decentralized.

For some people, bitcoin will just be like western union.  Convert from fiat to bitcoin and send to another part of the world and then convert back.  In fact western union could do this without the customer even knowing.  Banks could use bitcoin in a similar way.  I just think bitcoin can be used along with other currencies.

Never mind. This is the exact mindset that I am talking about.

Yes, that is the first part of what I was saying. However, the second part was that even IF a person gets access to the internet, the convincing it will take to get people to turn their paycheck into a QR code will be near impossible in the foreseeable future.

There is YOUR world, and there is the non connected world. I am arguing that the non connected/ intimidated world is much larger than people on this forum believe.

I doubt that full internet connectivity is required to let Bitcoin take off. look at how large the connected world is, Bitcoin has so much untapped customers in that area, why venture into new areas when there is an untapped reserve around. before we can talk about educating relative less developed countries on the beauty of bitcoin, we should target more technologically savvy people first. Even amongst users of the Internet not many know, use or trust bitcoins

at one part of your OP you are talking with the mindset of a one world currency. which in and of itself is not a good thing. choice and freedom is better. so trying to force people to get the internet and then force them to use bitcoin wont work.

bitcoin is already 150 of 200 real currencies of the world based on market cap. and its achieving this not by becoming a dominent currency, not by becoming a government used currency(fiat). and not by using pressure.

for instance in africa the majority of their economy IS based on cellular phone access to funds (mpesa). so bitcoin can work even in third world countries

there are over 1 billion mobile broadband (3g/4g) connections in the world and 5 billion cell phones with active lines in the world.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/mobile-phone-world-population-2014/

there are over 3.1billion internet subscriptions
http://www.statista.com/statistics/273018/number-of-internet-users-worldwide/

so try not to think that bitcoin only has usage to 1% of the world. it has potential of 50% of the world.


and to get to your point. if all you care about is the FIAT valuation of bitcoin, then thats just a speculative user and not a true bitcoin user.
anyone who just wants to hold a currency purely for future profits can find a numerous amount of other assets to invest in.

bitcoins users should not be trying to push users into bitcoin out of promises of riches. but on its real utility. the deflationary nature is just a bonus.

so if you tweak your mindset and realise that todays 2million of 7billion (0.028%) has alot of potential for growth for speculators, as i said 0.028 to 50% is alot of multiples 2000x infact. so relax on the speculation.

and instead think about the utility.

getting people into bitcoin does not need to blind them with science of mining or c++ code. you just need to tell them to down load an app from circle, coinbase etc to buy in and then use a different app to secure the funds and use them without the corporate control.

You have absolutely no idea what my point was because you are so wrapped up inside it. You are living in a VERY small community, and I am saying that the rest of us aren't even close yet.

I am not too worry about this. If anyone wants to be connected, it is very easy to get internet to anywhere in the world. Although speed maybe limited, we only need very slow speed for bitcoin transactions to be broadcasted!

As for the unbanked populations, it will be much easier to bring internet to them, compared to bring the Banks to them.

Too funny for words.

You actually have some reasonable answers here from members of the bitcoin community that you simply ignore for fear of oversimplifying your own nonsense argument about self-driving cars and people writing checks.

Is your issue with bitcoin, or is there no support line for your phone company?

I live in a developing country, yet we have access to the internet from anywhere in the country through 3G/4G mobile internet with a good connection speed. besides for spending bitcoin you will need to be in a shop, shops also can have wireless internet connection which you can connect to.
besides a tx size is so small (couple of KB) that you can send it with any slow connection.

and about the fact that not everybody has smartphones or people in rural areas of Africa (as you put it) don't trust putting their money in bitcoin, I have to say they don't trust things like PayPal, and sometimes even credit cards but this doesn't mean PayPal and credit cards are failing. the rest of the world is using them.
a new technology always reaches some parts of the world later than other parts.

I also travel into these areas too for contract work, and I am amazed at how strong the cellular networks are in these areas. Smartphones are becoming cheaper and more affordable and these people just love their phones and spend a large portion of their income on communication.

A company like 21 Inc will also come up with a solution for the unbanked in collaboration with bigger companies like Google and the Bill Gates foundation. ^smile^

I understand that the US is way behind with Internet access. Some of the growth areas for Bitcoin are in Africa and other countries that people consider to be 3rd world. They seem to have reasonable cell phone coverage. Banking in the US is still way behind other countries as well. I've just sold a domain name for dollars, and the most practical way to accept payment is by cheque, which takes about 3 weeks to clear. I asked for Bitcoin, but the vendor didn't know about it.

It's already everywhere through 3G/4G services. What is killing Bitcoin right now is capacity and Blockstream keeping it down. Ethereum's gonna have bigger market cap soon, Bitcoin is done thanks to selfish interests fuelled by Bilderberg money.

Not just wide coverage but cheap too!   Want just a couple dozen MB of data service?   Pay $0.25 for a scratch-off code and you got it!

Well although I also agree with most points so far, but having said that, were not that far as it seems to some. Most know google for doing some projects for bringing internet to those who are in zones out of range but that's not it. Some of the countries are in process of providing free internet on most routes they could afford to (which mostly will be used for self driven cars) but could also be used for citizens normal surfing too. The real problem is certainly the internet but that again is something that only governments could control so it's never going to be a smooth one.

how about using bitcoin debit cards or something similar to that?

i don't like it since you would have to go through a third party for using your bitcoin but it is a solution for situations where there is no internet access in your city! which honestly sounds strange to me since there is all kinds of internet coverage from mobile to wireless.

Technology moves and gets adopted much faster these days and continues to grow. Just look at the technology in mobile phones and TVs and how we've gone from these basic devices with one function to having powerful computers in them. Most of the concerns people have are similar to what people said about debit cards and mobile phones etc etc. Bitcoin probably wont work in 100% of the world but neither do phones and debit cards but the technology to spread internet and mobile phone networks worlwide is already there and companies are working on remote parts of the world in Africa etc. I think I read they might even get some sort of internet for free eventually (though it will come with ads most likely).

You may be surprised at how common fast internet is in less developed countries. It is not as easy here in the U.S. when you get outside of cities, but I travel a lot to very remote places, and while you you won't find a landline, you will have access via cell towers. It really is more common than in remote parts of the U.S.

For example on a trip to the Darien Gap I was shocked to find a cell tower in Jaque. The Darien is so remote that more people climb mount Everest each year than cross the gap. Yet even in a town with no connecting roads (you must fly there) you could get some internet service. Another example I saw last year in the Jordanian desert was when a guy I rented camels from whipped out his phone and had bitcoins!! In the middle of the desert?!

The OP should take it up with Obama.
I don't see why it's the forum's problem that America's internet access is shite.
The rest of the world's internet access is expanding rapidly.

There is pretty good internet service in the USA.  The problem is that one has to pay for EVERYTHING we get here.  And pay 100's of times more than it's worth.  We even have to pay for things our tax dollars payed for already.  The banks steal our money and take our homes....and we pay them to do it in the form of bailouts!  People are just dumb and lazy in the USA....that's all!

I think in most parts of the world internet is being provided to almost all the users. I have seen most of the big cities have a wifi tower near to every colony or sector, where you can get free internet with good speed.

Who needs internet? If you have 4G your mobile wallet will work just fine. I use it all the time. Much of the world has better mobile service than the US anyway due to the higher population density.

I think this is a good question that every bitcoin trader's need to put into consideration!

well, just like Anddos mentioned earlier that google is doing something about that, well, i have read something similar about facebook CEO launching global internet connectivity. I can't figure out link to that article right now but, i'll update my comment whenever, i come across the link again.

Thanks

bitcoin is the money of the future, and as we go forward the internet coverage is also growing. for example nowadays there is a good mobile internet (4g) coverage almost everywhere so you can easily use that no matter where you are as long as there is a cell tower around.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think everyone everywhere needs to be able to use bitcoin in order for it to be considered as "taken off."  Do you think the internet has "taken off?"  Just like you said, not everyone has access to the internet/computers/smartphones, but the internet is still a HUGE GLOBAL system.  The internet has come a long way in a not very long time.  I would say it has "taken off" and I think bitcoin will too.

it is ok to say that Bit coin needs safer internet connection to enable every one to use it any time they want but these days internet available every where in the world in offices at home even in smart phones so i don't think any one is without internet now so bit coin is just with all people since internet is not a big issue these days.

oh i never hear about this,is that really?United States as king of technology,they have some are that still have hard acces to internet?i can't believe this. thanks for sharing,i'm sure so many people dont know and consider about this,and i'm also think how about small city in poor country like africa and asians country,they have more problem than only internet connection,can bitcoin "conquer" the world if internet not yet like oxygen??

I agreee, but the question here is: how long would it take to chatch up?

Until the vast majority of human population have reliable access to internet conections there will be no way that bitcoin would become some sort of universal currency...

I don't think bitcoin will ever be a universal currency in the sense that it's going to replace others.  I think it can work alongside fiat.  I think there is a place for both and maybe a need to both in the future.