Bitcoin Forum

First of all, let me congratulate everyone who bought Ethereum at $1 and have made roughly 8x your money in the past two months.  Amazing, and who knows what will happen next.  I did not, and officially am jealous of your mad gainz.  I was wrong about Ethereum the first time it crashed; I can't speak from a mathematical standpoint, even though I know a lot of accusations about future problems are flying, but it was undoubtedly a great purchase at a buck: good for you.  Who knows what programmable blockchains will do to our future, but I envision this is the next 'altcoin boom': a thousand DAPP coins all trying to repeat Ethereum's success. 
 
But this talk about it replacing Bitcoin as the standard unit of account is silly.  Ethereum is not money in its purest form, and the fact that it is programmable on a protocol layer introduces a lot of uncertainty as to whether or not we can continue to rely on its value.  When dealing with money, the value of a thing is inherently subjective and the very best money has no useful purpose in the real world... that's why it makes good money. 
 
In a world where we use water, bullets, or wood for money, the inherent usefulness of water or wood can affect the underlying value of the accounting unit.  This makes them excellent commodities, but they should not be relied upon to be a standard unit of account. 
 
Ethereum is just like this because it derives much of its value from its usefulness, and its speculated future usefulness.  More power to it; again, I am not here to debate the future usefulness of DAPPS and specifically the Ethereum implementation of them. 
 
But Ethereum will not be the last network and the true power of digital currency is not just in its programmability; it lies in its other qualities as well.  The world needs a solid digital money for the upcoming knowledge/AI/VR age that can be used purely as money with no inherent usefulness attached to it.  And that's where Monero comes in: it is money in its purest form - the best we have ever created. 
 
From what I can see, the internet of the future prizes Ethereum highly, sure: but it denominates it's value in XMR.  Both can succeed, because both do very different things.

Actually, though it is smaller in size and goes unnoticed, Kobocoin is also suited as an out and out currency and already has a proper android wallet in it's arsenal. It is fast and optimized for mobile phone usage

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920290.0

It was a decent read up until you mentioned Monero...

The point of the topic is why Poloniex, the largest Ethereum exchange, features an XMR market pair and not an ETH one.  In time, you will see that XMR pair pick up more and more volume as people begin to realize its monetary features are superior to any other crypto.

I know Ethereum has a cult following, and this topic was intended to explain how we can both succeed wildly by focusing on our own specialities.

Same, god how I hate this joke of a coin and their fanboys, glad it will die with all the rest and only a few strong that will actually be used for something will survive.

Lol, let's talk about that in the next months and you'll see if that joke of a scam coin is still alive. I don't even understand the XMR market or its purpose, I guess they are lazy to update it or have some investments in XMR which makes me wonder about the legitimacy of Poloniex altogether.

 
 
No thanks.

Monero is an open source, pure POW currency that was fairly launched with no IPO or premine, based off of the peer reviewed and lauded Cryotonote protocol.  It is by far the largest such currency based on this protocol too. 
 
It achieves something never before thought possible in a digital money: true protocol level privacy.  It is one of the most amazing inventions in human history, and certainly not a scam.  In fact, it's essentially the true 'Bitcoin 2.0' the world has long been waiting for.  If you would prefer to elaborate, maybe we can discuss it further.  Otherwise you don't seem to have any justification for your dislike of Monero.

You don't say?

Privacy as their main feature and focus just tell me exactly what they are all about. "Privacy" is what gave Bitcoin such a bad image in the first place. I need people and companies to not be some anonymous scammers thank you very much.

This very thread explains exactly why Monero is money, and Ethereum is not.  This kind of bickering about public account activity seems absurd in a post-Monero world. 
 
https://np.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/48nylu/the_accumulator_is_kraken_bought_for_liquidity/

Wow. That's one depressing perspective.

Glad though that you've found your own personal ignorantopia.

In his world, all poker would be played with cards turned face up.  
  
All lovers would be able to ask each other what they were thinking about and get a brutal 100% honest answer at all times.  
  
There would be no such thing as classified information, and businesses would not be allowed to have secrets from each other.  
  
As well, any person's bank account and hard drive would be publicly browsable by anyone at any time.  
  
Basically, this is not the real world.

I bought 100 ETH in early january.. man, that's GREAT !!

I truly believe that Ethereum, Monero and Bitcoin will be the three currencies with huge impact in future. I believe because they don't have only the size of this forum or the exclusive programming community... Litecoin will always be the silver of Bitcoin (even if it's price is less than the ETH or some other, I really like, it's my opinion).

Ethereum and Monero has both a tremedous universe to explore, like Bitcoin, it's just in the beginning.

Wow, this world is going crazy. I really need to move to Canada soon. OMG.

 8)

Don't forget Kobocoin (KOBO)
 :)

Does Monero have proper working mobile wallets?

This topic is about Monero and Ethereum.  Not your shilling.  Please stop.

If I had to choose 3 cryptos to change the world it would be:
1: Bitcoin for store of value
2: Ethereum for smart contracts
3: Maidsafe for everything else.

Time to update your signature then.

You're calling someone else a shill?

That's awfully ballsy considering your constant posting of XMR bullshit most don't care about.

I love how you frame this one up to be about ETH just so you can shill XMR a little harder.

DUMBASS SHILL

Touché. Good point.

I swear Monero supporters are like Jehovah's witnesses. We all know about XMR at this point, it's been explained to us about a 100 times. Chances are, the 101th time isn't going to change our minds.



I guess it takes one to know one.

Ladies, please.

No one gives a rats ass about monero i'm afraid. And ETH works as money just fine.

Stop trying to FUD a superior coin.

Shilling is bringing up another crypto, unsolicited to the current discussion.  This discussion is about Ethereum and Monero having different purposes, and the definition of money.  
  
If trolls would stop bringing mud and drama into the discussion, and stick to the facts it would be appreciated.  


 
  
Again, topics like this one do not seem to paint Ethereum as "superior money": https://np.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/48nylu/the_accumulator_is_kraken_bought_for_liquidity/

The public nature of ETH's Blockchain give it many of the same weaknesses as Bitcoin.  At this point, in 2016, no one should be able to see anyone else's transactions and account balances.  
  
So while Ethereum may do fine for DAPPs and perhaps its current market price is justified it will not work large scale as a unit of account.  
  

All of this is such a gamble, it's unreal.  And I mean bitcoin as well--Warren Buffett said he doesn't invest in anything he doesn't understand, and I probably should follow in his footsteps with cryptocurrency.  I'm not a computer or really a math type of guy and I cannot claim to understand how all of these things work.  These things are prices moving up and down, actions which I understand but cannot predict.

You say ETH is not money.  OK.  What is the value of these ETH tokens then?  I have yet to see someone dumb it down to retard-level for me.  And I mean get down to retard and then go a few inches further down.

ETH is a token but in the Ethereum platform you can create any crap coin like Monero if you like in a second (that is if you have the skills). The cockroaches are coming out of the dark because there's fire everywhere. Ethereum is coming for them all, they had their time and they failed, even Bitcoin if you ask me. But at least Bitcoin will remain as a storage of wealth, it has proven its worth and it has a relatively stable price. I think that was its original intention, to be more of like digital gold, not a payment system (which is completely useless if you ask me).

No, that's not my world. I live in this world and this doesn't happen. I run a business and no one knows my numbers, BUT if they really need to know them because authorities are after me or I've been scamming people, dealing arms and selling child pornography, they sure can and that's perfectly fine.

Privacy is a complete illusion if you think about it and Monero is build on dubious ethics if the main feature is hiding your transactions and information, great way to avoid taxes and do money laudering. No one care about "privacy" because it's meaningless in a world where you are filmed 24/7 whetever your go, go ask Snowden, people don't give a shit.

Wow! great post.  Yes, thats exactly how I visualise the shitcoin supporters on this site.  Like cockroaches. And Ethereum is the fire that will burn their nests.

Thank you sir, I totally agree with the bolded part and I don't believe I've heard confirmation of my thoughts before.  I bought some silver quarters from Provident Metals a few months back with bitcoin, and it was such a pain in the ass and there was absolutely no reason to use bitcoin other than the small discount they give.  I agree it's a store of wealth, like digital gold.

So you say buy ETH now?  I may just buy a little.  Who knows where it's headed.

Ethereum is going to be a computer, but one that is owned by many people.  This way you can run applications on that computer and be sure that no one can hack your program or falsify the results.  You know that no one can cheat/hack your program because lots of computers are all competing on the Ethereum standard for new 'coins'.  Why are they doing this?  Because Ethereum carries value, because it is a digital commodity.  
  
Monero does not claim to inherently run code.  A secondary layer could be built on top of it to run code, but it is a protocol layer that does one thing really well: privacy.  It does this by encrypting its own Blockchain such that no one can publicly read the Blockchain, but computers are still competing for new Monero same as any other crypto.  Therefore the Monero network remains secure and the tokens cannot be counterfeited.  Monero aims to be first and foremost --> money - the best debt ledger on the planet, just like gold once was.  
  
If you need further consultation I would be happy to help you.  I have a way of breaking down complex concepts and would be happy to assist anyone in understand this stuff - it really is the 'next big thing'.
 

Ethereum can not ever host something like Monero because Monero at its foundation is private money.  Ethereum uses a public Blockchain.  What is more likely is that an Ethereum replace would be built on top of Monero, if you insist on arguing the point.  Additionally Ethereum switching to Proof of Stake opens it up to tons of issues with that model down the road.  
  
My entire point is that Ethereum does not make good money because good money does just that - acts as a unit of account, unit of transaction, and store of value.  Your insistence on the 'usefulness' of Ethereum only solidifies my point that Ethereum might have value (or not) but it does not make good 'money'.

Please post pdf files of your last three monthly bank statements.  Include your personal account and your business account.  
  
The truth of a public Blockchain (like Ethereum's) is that everybody can see all your data, transactions, and balances.... Not just these omnipotent 'authorities' you are so eager to submit yourself to.

Your definition of money is one that seems to be your own private definition that exists only in your head.

Not really: http://thismatter.com/money/banking/money.htm.
 
At one point spices were used as money as well.  How are those salt futures working out? 
 
Good money doesn't base its value on its practical use ability - it bases its value on its ability to be an easily transmitted, hard to counterfeit, fungible, resilient unit of debt and savings.  Gold does that extremely well; despite having a few recently discovered industrial uses (as in, discovered after we had been using it as money for thousands of years already) and looking pretty, it doesn't really do a whole lot. 
 
That's good money.  That's Monero too.  It does one thing really well, which is why many still prize it in 2016.  Monero is private just like gold is - in fact, it's the first time we've ever achieved that as a species.  That's a big deal. 
 
Salt was also used as money for a while, and it was rare enough that it made a fine commodity.  But then the world changed and salt lost all value.  Ethereum is a valued commodity, but whether it is most like salt, oil, or something else entirely remains to be seen.

Dude, I get all the tecno-anarcho-conspiracy bullshit, but we are in the real world here, there are authorities, companies, institutions and so on and they will live on for a thousands more years. I understand if you don't want them to know you buy sex toys online or that you do some pot dealing on the side but other than that please, get real.

Another pointless thread with absolutely no merit. It's getting annoying.

I've bought ETH at 90s or so, I really don't know if it's extremely cheap or expensive right now, but I know that it is something special and it's making Bitcoin tremble like no "altcoin" ever did before. Just do some research, I'm not all in on ETH, I have some BTC but I'm not too optimistic. I do feel there's a chance Bitcoin can make it out and be digital gold like I mentioned, but in terms of usability I'm afraid Hearn hit the nail on the head.

Check this out: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-dream-of-buying-a-coffee-with-bitcoin-is-dying-if-its-not-already-dead-block-size-fees

 
  
Again, a public blockchain lets everyone see all your transactions and balances.  Please post copies of your previous three months' bank statements since you don't believe that financial privacy is important.  
  

I disagree.  This is a discussion about the difference between pure money and commodities, and what makes something valuable.  I recognize that those enjoying and riding the massive Ethereum swell cheering Ethereum on to 'replace Bitcoin entirely' may not like hearing about this distinction, but I feel it has merit to discuss.  


I agree the dream of buying cups of coffee with Bitcoin may be going away.  I've been saying for a while now that BTC would do better as a large public settlement layer.  But I think you would have to be totally ridiculous to say that we will be buying cups of coffee with Ethereum as well.
  

Do you realize how silly you look pushing Monero because of its privacy while you're trading it on an exchange that requires your ID to do so because said exchange bent over to the US government?

Game over! Let's go home.

An appeal to a different argument.  Yes, a decentralized crypto-exchange needs to be invented, I agree.  This world is wide open for such a thing.  In the meantime Poloniex works well, and I feel good that they comply with US law - I would worry about them getting shut down if they did not. 
 
If your argument is with US law, then that is another argument too: even in the 'land of the free' people have to fear their government spying on them... don't you realize there will always be powerful people who want to take away your privacy?  That's why privacy must be baked into an irreversible protocol layer, not an optional add-on feature that can be snatched away at a whim. 
  
With privacy comes fungibility and the true moniker of 'money'.  Privacy is not an add-on feature that can be tacked on, nor ignored.  It is a fundamental quality of the best forms of money ans it has nothing to do with breaking the law or doing anything criminal.  
  

Just FYI Americanpegasus, be careful of consecuposting like that.  SebastianJu got suspended for doing that, apparently without warning of any sort.  The powers that be here are not farting around anymore.  I didn't understand a damn word you said about ETH, but that's just me.  I told you all I needed the sub retard explanation.  I do understand some of it, but I really need to look into the fundamentals of all this stuff.

Privacy is important, no doubt about that and it's sad that so many people don't care about it.
But privacy is non-existent when the exchange of coins happens on a centralized platform which is under the control of another centralized entity that is the US government that has detailed info about you. And they could shatter the exchange anytime they wanted but that's another topic.

Pseudoanonimity like Bitcoin or any other coin has, combined with either a decentralized exchange or multiple traditional exchanges (with even volume) that doesn't depend on a single centralized entity is not even comparable privacy-wise to a coin with privacy while 88% of said coin's volume is traded on one centralized exchange by people whose names and IDs are shared with the US government.

Well thank you for the warning.  In the future I will condense my replies to a single post. 
 

An important point to consider, always. 
 
And I could not agree more.  I can't program, but I understand the need for a decentralized exchange.  Let's start a foundation with a prize for the first person to create one.  In fact, let's figure out how to build one on top of Ethereum since we're all so gung-ho about it.

I'm not a huge fan of Eth. I admit its potential and I invested in it but I certainly don't praise it, I just think Monero is snakeoil in its current state.

You nailed it.

Monero might not have a GUI for a few more months but it is a functioning and powerful anonymous value network right now - nothing snake oil about it.  
  
And it only gets better from here.

Here is some research on ETH in this very forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.msg14075148#msg14075148

If the thread is too long and the issues too complex to digest fully, here's a summary so far:

Sorry, not sorry. I have no shame admitting Ethereum will overtake Monero (XRR) and continue to do so. As someone familiar with Monero, there's nothing special about it and it won't got anywhere further than Ethereum

Here's the thing: I'm not so sure you are all that familiar with Monero.  Please explain how a public, proof-of-stake blockchain has any bearing at all on an untraceable, anonymous, pure proof-of-work blockchain.  Please note that this is the first such anonymous blockchain in the history of civilization.  


TPTB is smart, and I know he attacks the math in Ethereum frequently, but it's a little above my head - so I'll let those better acquainted with such concepts argue about it.

Isn't that the premise of your entire thread though?

As an investment Etherium has been phenomenal... As a safe haven and store of value, XMR is the best.
If you think ETH has reached its peak performance, it is time probably take the profits and store them into XMR for long term. If you think ETH will still make new heights, then by all means, XMR will be here to serve Etherium community also in the future.  :)

Well, seeing as XMR community has been a major source of FUd against ethereum I don't really see any place for XMR in the future of crypto.

I do not know about the FUD, but I consider ETH community in a fortunate position and therefore I see XMR can help them to store their wealth privately.

What are Monero's plan regarding decentralized crypto exchanges? I think not being in one is quite a weakness for Monero. Don't get me wrong, Ethereum's technology is as important as Monero's. Perhaps people gives more support to ETH because you can create more with it but as soon as the authorities start regulating exchanges and wallet companies I believe Monero will show up it's value