Bitcoin Forum

Is there a website out there that I am missing that calculates what the average dividend yield has been over the last week, month, 3 month etc...?  It would be very handy information when deciding which fund to invest in and maybe where to park money short term based on dividend frequency.

If not I'll start working on one, maybe just a shared google spreadsheet.

I haven't seen one, so it may be worthwhile to create such a sheet.

My advice, however, is to not invest solely on dividends alone...it's the company you should pay attention to, not necessarily how they promise to pay you. With that in mind you'll find that companies offering 0.5% per month payments are quite a bit more reliable than, say, certain companies that offered 7% ;)

I'm aware there is certainly more to it then the dividends and reading through the read of how the company is run, upgrade strategy, etc.. is all very important.  It is however a starting point.

I wonder if you could arbitrage the weekly dividend payouts and jump in the daily ones in between?  Probably not enough liquidity to hold share price.

You could also just post a bbcode table here.

The main issues are that it's difficult to calculate. Also, some securities which have recently listed may have paid out a catch-up payment, and therefore the dividend yield statistic is not a reliable indicator of dividend yield going forward.

Usagi's BTC-TC securities by Dividend Yield
Date:	January	23	2013
TICKER	7d AVG	30d	90d	Avg/mo/yr	PerMonth	PerYear
ESECURITYSABTC	0.79	0.02744684	0.09864411	0.36196926	3.82%	45.82%
LTC-MINING	0.4	0.00796200	0.0614681	0.17070820	3.56%	42.68%
SYNERGY	0.14	0.00200000	0.01559184	0.04318368	2.57%	30.85%
GSDPT	0.006	0.00020358	0.00020358	0.00162864	2.26%	27.14%
COGNITIVE	0.41	0.00483793	0.02830470	0.08563698	1.74%	20.89%
BASIC-MINING	0.33	0.00508942	0.00508942	0.04071536	1.03%	12.34%
BTC-BOND	0.01	0.00007991	0.00007991	0.00063928	0.53%	6.39%
BTC-TRADING-PT	0.14	0.00015125	0.00015125	0.00121000	0.07%	0.86%
RSM	0.01	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00%	0.00%
MININGCO.ETF	0.5	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00%	0.00%
GOLD	1.12	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00%	0.00%
BTC-GOLD	0.05	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00%	0.00%
BTC-MINING	0	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00000000	#DIV/0!	#DIV/0!
PAJKA.BOND	0	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00000000	#DIV/0!	#DIV/0!
BITCOINRS	0	0.00000000	0.00000000	0.00000000	#DIV/0!	#DIV/0!

8)

You may be interested in this: http://charles-reace.com/Kindle_Hacks/csv2bbcode/

That's how I do it.

Good point on the catch up payments.  That's why I'd like to get BTC-TC and fundraiser into excel.  I could mark one off catch up payments, or divide it over the days etc... Pretty much evaluate the data in numerous ways.

Thanks for the chart though, decent idea on how I should do it.  45% max, I would have guessed a bit higher for a bitcoin fund.

Please don't use those numbers up there ^ as they're very misleading for several companies. Many(most) companies haven't been around for 90 days as BTC-TC is still pretty young. Also many GLBSE refugee companies distributed balloon dividends upon being relisted at BTC-TC which also horribly skews those numbers. You're better off creating your own spreadsheet to track this information.

bASIC-MINING's current APY is 22.5003087% not sure how it was calculated above. Last daily dividend was 0.29415609BTC paid to 1446 shares which at .34/share equates to a daily yield of 0.0616447%.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArTS7AD--9SWdDNfb0lRNElqS1k1eGRoWEw2TGM4NlE#gid=0




 

Don't forget that if you don't want to spend a lot of time researching the various securities, constantly checking the market and propping up bid walls, instantly diversifying your investment and manually talking to low risk lenders / offering lines of credit, look into https://bitfunder.com/asset/BTCINVEST :)

</shamelessplug>

That's another valid point. Statistics are statistics -- a snapshot in time -- and don't necessarily reflect "right now". On the numbers I posted I listed January 23rd, a couple of days ago. How can you know if there wasn't some breaking news that raised or lowered the expected value of a company? Unless there's a newswire and a rule to report material information you cannot.

Actually as an aside GLBSE was about to implement a newswire for it's securities, and this is one area where BitFunder is clearly ahead of the competition. It has a newswire. It is for reasons like this that I've chosen to list my securities exclusively on BitFunder. I feel it keeps issuers honest. If something were to happen to a security on BitFunder and the issuer didn't disclose it, it would be tantamount to fraud. I know it's not seen that way now, but it will be soon. There needs to be a newswire for any exchange IMO.

Absolutely.. Don't forget that some people don't check bitcointalk.org frequently.

Come on man. LTC-MINING, SYNERGY, & COGNITIVE are excellent companies, but you have to exclude the balloon payments made when they were relisted on BTC-TC in your math...unless of course you think burnside will be paying out 43.501BTC every other week? Actual APY on LTC-MINING based on last dividend was 2.153BTC/1000=0.002153BTC/share / 12(average days between dividends) = 0.00017942BTC/day / .37(7dAvg) = 0.04849099% daily yield * 365 days = 17.69921171% APY.

Your math is way off on several assets because you didn't exclude one time payments...among other problems.

Yes, "...some securities which have recently listed may have paid out a catch-up payment, and therefore the dividend yield statistic is not a reliable indicator of dividend yield going forward."

Statistics is not easy. It seems a good idea to exclude the first "catch-up" payment and run a calculation based on that. But it would in fact be more flawed than what I did above. If you look at statistics from a shorter time period, the error from weekly payments creeps in. Some securities pay weekly, some daily, and on different days. This means if a company pays early or late by two days than another company, the numbers will be off by as much as 6 or 7%. Actually, using the 90 day statistic and leaving in the first payment is a better judge of which companies pay more dividend because it fairly compares companies over the same time period (since GLBSE closed down). So while the numbers themselves are almost certainly wrong, at least we can order them comparatively by their historical rate. This is a good start; the actual numbers may be different but now we can start at the top of the list and start analyzing other factors such as transparency and trustworthiness.

You're not off by 6 or 7% in the example I cited, you're off by 24.98%, how is that better? I've absolutely no idea how you came up with an APY of 12.34% for my company(bASIC-MINING), but it's never been anywhere near that low, not even for a day. Mind showing your math on that? You do realize that dividend is daily not weekly correct?

Again 90d data is worthless at this time because BTC-TC is too new. ESECURITY was the first asset traded on BTC-TC and it's first dividend was on 12-01-12. Six months from now going the lazy route and just picking the number off the Dividend tab on BTC-TC may be fine, but right now you have to do some actual math to come up with yields that aren't fairy tales.

I see an opportunity for a quick howto.  On btct.co and litecoinglobal.com:

- browse to the Market
- select an asset
- hit the Dividends & Trades tab
- there you will see 30d and 90d per share numbers

You can also grab an asset's entire dividend history via the API as JSON:

https://btct.co/api/dividendHistory/LTC-MINING

As creativex mentioned, watch for the lump sum payments on the GLBSE assets that relisted.  Eg, on LTC-MINING, only the 30d number is useful, as the 90d number will include the lump sum payment up until mid March.

Cheers.

Actually we kinda need one (or a few) analyst blogs specializing in finance.



usagi, are you mentally ill?

Aww shucks. :-[

or

Shall I quit my day job? ;D

Not a bad idea.  There's plenty out there to write about.

usagi, are you mentally ill?
[/quote]

Thats one word for it.

I dunno if he's just being nonchalant/faux kewl or really believes such tremendous math fail is acceptable, but I'm having a difficult time envisioning him as the caretaker of my funds. 

Could definitely make for a great blog.  Reporting the market trends, dividend trends, news, etc...

As long as the person is actually clever/makes sense. We're well stocked on weird, nutso etc.

So Usagi tried to list his Silver company on BTCT.co, but the moderators are sick of his nonsense and voted against allowing it. So now he jumped over to BitFunder, and he is talking smack against btct.co because he is mad at them for stopping his latest scam investment opportunity.

Reminds me of how Bakewell was getting tons of downvotes on BTCT and so they jumped over to BitFunder to try to erase some of the negative history.

Edit: To be fair, I have no reason to beleive that Usagi is using SILVER to scam people.

I wonder what will happen when he is approved on BTC-TC as he surely will be in due time, unless he withdraws the request. I guess this is a better question for Usagi's silver thread.

That's quite a spin, Peter. SILVER has 3 upvotes and 4 downvotes. Given enough time, a week or three, it's pretty obvious I would have been approved. However I decided to list on BitFunder instead. Both exchanges have their advantages. However, in this case I feel BitFunder was the better horse for several factors including security of the wallet and the newswire. Sure, BTC-TC has some advanced features as well. Perhaps in time burnside and Ukyo can work together on a shared system and the community would benefit from that. Perhaps not, it is just an idle thought.

Hmm. WRT your other comment. I didn't mention BTC-TC above so please don't put words in my mouth. I did not (and would never) talk smack about BTC-TC. I like burnside and I respect him.

There's only one thing that can happen, and we'll be reading all about it right here in due time.

That's quite a spin, Peter. SILVER has 3 upvotes and 4 downvotes. Given enough time, a week or three, it's pretty obvious I would have been approved. However I decided to list on BitFunder instead. Both exchanges have their advantages. However, in this case I feel BitFunder was the better horse for several factors including security of the wallet and the newswire. Sure, BTC-TC has some advanced features as well. Perhaps in time burnside and Ukyo can work together on a shared system and the community would benefit from that. Perhaps not, it is just an idle thought.

Hmm. WRT your other comment. I didn't mention BTC-TC above so please don't put words in my mouth. I did not (and would never) talk smack about BTC-TC. I like burnside and I respect him.
[/quote]

I am not saying there is anything wrong with BitFunder, but it does seem strange that you came to this conclusion only after trying to list your asset on another exchange.

I guess it was in another thread where you said you had sold off your shares of LTC-Global or something like that.

I do like the newswire, it's pretty handy!  I definitely need to consolidate all the notifications on a single page somewhere and do something similar.

Regarding the wallet security, can you elaborate?  I've gone to great lengths to secure things effectively, most recently by reducing the balances in the hot wallet and requiring manual withdrawal processing on large withdrawals.  The site now doesn't expose more than ~$1k to the internet in general, which should greatly reduce the probability of us being a target.  It's also low enough that I can easily afford to cover it if something goes wrong.  I just want to make sure there's not some outstanding issue I might be missing?

Thanks!

I really like how btct sends me an email with every transaction, dividend, and notification from the assets which I own. (Hint, hint, nudge, nudge, BitFunder *cough*, when my order gets filled I should get a notification instead of not finding out about it until I log in several hours later, and only then if I check the transaction tab)

What I really, really love about BTC-TC, and what makes me sad I couldn't list there right away, are the stats. I *love* stats. I love the analysis page on BTC-TC in "My Portfolio". A lot of investors like to get as much information as possible. I hope BitFunder can move in this direction too. Another thing I like is the PIN number system on BTC-TC. Very nice. It makes me feel more secure. One other thing BTC-TC could do though is copy BitFunder's "cancel" button right on the market view. In comparison BitFunder could add a "Fill" button like on BTC-TC's market view. But these are just usability concerns to save a few clicks here and there.

Getting back to the issue at hand, someone should create a bitcoin market stats site somewhere. What ever happened to stochastically.com? I'm talking, the bloomberg.com of bitcoin, you know what I mean? That would be cool. I'd donate to a project like that, if it was done right.

The PIN number is actually practically useless.

Keylogger? Not going to help
Guessed password? If you were dumb enough to use an easily guessed password your pin number is probably too.
Trading on phones / tablets?  :P

I highly recommend using 2FA via Google Authenticator.  The PIN is mostly a placeholder for gAuth in all the interfaces, however, it's also protection against your email address being compromised because the PIN cannot be reset in any automated fashion, which means an attacker could probably reset the password and get into your account, but could not trade or withdraw.

Cheers.

Google Auth 2FA is pretty awesome - don't forget that you can and should enable it for your google account too.

Yea it was fun making that site but I have been too busy to start up a new one.  I wanted to add charts to the site so after things settle down I can work on that.

Full account history CSV downloads are available now.  They're on the main Account page.  Should help out quite a bit for those trying to do portfolio analysis in their spreadsheets.

Cheers.

A belated Christmas gift for us spreadsheet nerds! Thanks man!