Bitcoin Forum

Hey people.

This forum is mainly American. Or at least the "politics and society" part is divided mainly between Americans and Europeans.

Americans keep calling lots of Europeans "liberals". But the thing is that most of people called this way are not. I'm really not sure Americans have the same definition of the word "liberal" than Europeans.

So here the official Oxford definition (in a political context):
favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and social reform
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/liberal

Clearly, lefties aren't liberals, at all. From this definition, most Americans are strong liberals, and Europeans are much less liberals. Especially from an economic point of view.

So is that your definition of liberals? if no what do you means by "liberal"?

Liberty is individual freedom and rights. Bitcoin is very liberal, fiat is not liberty.

To my opinion, to be liberal is to have wide and open wordlview, to tolerate differencies in any way, to accept new things, not to judge others if they have different point of views and similiar. Not to be closed in your own narrow world.

In the US communism gets a bad rap so those people that support communism took on the term 'liberal'.

As time went on and communism wasn't as hated they took on the term "progressive".

Now that communism is not all that hated but still has a stigma they are finally ok with using the term "socialist".

Once people are comfortable with the term "socialist" then they will eventually go back to calling themselves "communists".

Then anyone who doesn't like that term will likely have fled the country if they're lucky or dead.

Liberal

American View
A shouting chasm of media with a Bias towards Donald Trump and any viewpoint that does not represent their mainstream version of moderate.
Moderate defined as a Democratic View in the media/Late Night Talk-shows.

European View
Anything that encourages Europe as a country to remain as one Union, and is not at the level of Hitler or Pro-Nationalist.

Liberal --> Libertarian
Maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgment.

Liberal <--> Perverted Definition
Discard traditional values.
Possibly lacking moral restraint, interpreting not literal or strict definitions and/or not bound by authoritarianism or orthodoxy.

So liberal is for the lefties in the USA?

But that's dumb as hell! Lefties are, by definition, not liberals! Most socialists are against free market, nearly all in fact!

But liberal is not only economic term. Maybe lefties aren't liberal in terms of economy way but in all others are.

Most people are liberals from a moral point of view.

And from a cultural point of view lefties aren't liberals. They're for regulation by government in all aspects of life. Which is exactly the opposite of liberalism.

Yeah, the Americans have very much butchered the word, the liberal left in America are anything but liberal in the way they act, especially when it comes to matters of religion, they'll happily throw shit at evil white Christians, but criticise Islamists with brown skin? Nope, it's all fucked up, this is why you have people in America sometimes using the term 'classical liberalism' which refers back to the liberals back in the day who did care about freedom of speech and expression and didn't go around acting like Capitalism is evil.

Exactly. Liberals are the ones who always spit on foreign things because they support tradition, and they can't fight capitalism! Capitalis = liberals! It's the main point of liberals, having a capitalist economy!

So hard to call lefties liberals, it's like calling righties socialists xD

In the US we use the term "classic liberal" for people who like freedom.

Even Bill Maher gets pissed with them and he's the left of the left when it comes to mainstream politics, I do feel for the guy because he's one of the few standing up for freedom of speech and expression and then he gets attacked for it.

Don't know who he is or who pissed him off ^^'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzc8glS2r_o

American conservatives, free market lovers, libertarians, etc... did not call liberals "liberals", the left baptized themselves that way. I am more comfortable calling them "progressives", but all of this was really well explained earlier.

The American left wants to be called "liberals", so be it.

Regressives is a quite appropriate term coined by people on the left who are tired of these people and I think I'll use that because even calling these twats progressive is pretty ridiculous.

Then I guess it will be something you guys need to talk about with each other...

I'm pretty much Centre on the political compass damnit.

I know, but I haven't teased you in a long time...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=782687.msg8821846#msg8821846


 :)

Well the American lefts are dumb.

I'm not going to call myself a conservative while I'm a socialist!

Yeah especially considering how corrupt they are...

Most left politicians represent nothing and certainly not the great socialist ideals.

liberal is a multi faceted term.
the word is derived from the latin word freedom, libertas.
So you could say it is a synonym for freedom?
well, yes and no.
First, there are historical events the term liberal is explicitly used for.
for example laissez-faire in context with constitutional matters,
or neo liberalism regarding economic science.

It always implies less contraints in comparison to most other comparable "concepts".
the idea behind liberlism is more accessible to those with knowledge & education,
as they are aware of its conceptual relevance.
libaralism is more like a foundation for freedom.

Liberalism is the common name for a political ideology that advocates the state organization aimed at the greatest possible individual freedom achieved through the democratic process under the protection of the rule of law . One of the alternative definitions of liberalism as an ideology according to which the aim is to achieve the freedom of the individual at the expense of social equality and social stability.

There's two forms of freedom here: freedom of being (social liberty, left) and freedom of action (economic liberty, right.)  Liberalism, as far as it goes in the states, refers only to freedom of being, but abhors economic freedom.  In other words, something like homosexuality or transgenderism or any religion or culture whatsoever is a-ok with the liberal ("tolerance", multiculturalism etc.), but running a business however one sees fit is not.  This is largely in part due to the lefties taking full control over the term, who are wholly blind to the benefits of freedom of action, for whatever reason.  Conservatives are the liberal's opposite, supporting freedom of action but abhorring freedom of being; the limitation is intended to preserve tradition.  Libertarian is essentially what the liberal used to refer to, which supports both freedom of being and freedom of action; as the root of the word liberal is liber which means freedom, it makes sense that it ought to support freedom period, and I'm sure this is what it means outside of the insanity of US politics.  In contrast, authoritarians abhor both freedom of being and freedom of action, which is fundamentally similar to being a slave; of course, such an advocate can only intend to be the slave master, e.g. dictators and the fools which elect them.

With that in mind, the influence of the left and of authoritarians has grown immensely lately while the economy suffers.  Just saying, they're connected.